Zone1 Jehovah's Witnesses

[Cougarbear]

Cougarbear:

There you go with another of your false claims about Jehovah's Witnesses.

The prehuman Jesus started off as an angel. Angels are considered to be gods because they are powerful beings. In fact, scripture refers to angels as gods.

Even humans in positions of power (judges, kings, etc.) are considered to be gods. Only Jehovah the Father is referred to as Almighty God.


Alter2Ego

So, do other of your angels sing praises to other angels? Do you have scriptural proof of this? Of course not. They sing praises to the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who sits at the right hand of God as a member of the Godhead. God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Ghost. For Moses, Jesus (Jehovah) was almighty God as a member of the Godhead. Fortunately, this question was answered when the Godhead opened back up the heavens and gave this to their new prophet, Joseph Smith. This question is now answered.

 

[Alter2Ego]

So, do other of your angels sing praises to other angels? Do you have scriptural proof of this? Of course not. They sing praises to the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who sits at the right hand of God as a member of the Godhead. God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Ghost. For Moses, Jesus (Jehovah) was almighty God as a member of the Godhead. Fortunately, this question was answered when the Godhead opened back up the heavens and gave this to their new prophet, Joseph Smith. This question is now answered.

Cougarbear:

I've already started a thread on Christendom's Trinity. Since you now want to discuss that topic, I invite you to click the weblink below, and you will be taken to my opening post aka OP.

Zone1 Thread 'Christendom's Trinity - Where Did It Come From?'

Mar 11, 2025

Although Trinity is the most important doctrine within most of Christendom's 41,000 denominations, Trinitarians ignore the following facts:



1. There are no scriptures in the Judeo-Christian Bible in support of the dogma of a 3-in-1 god, in which there are three persons (Father, Son, and Holy Ghost) that are co-equal and co-eternal.

2. Neither Jesus Christ nor his disciples of the 1st century AD promoted the teaching that there are three persons within a "godhead," all of whom are co-equal and co-eternal.

3. Trinity did not become official...

• Alter2Ego

• 
• 
• 

I will not discuss Christendom's Trinity within this thread.


Alter2Ego

 

[Zebra]

I've invited them into my house before. Just never heard of anyone "dating" them for a year. I invited the LDS into my home before too. I found the LDS and JW theologies to be lacking. Whereas with the Catholic Church I found most of their theology made sense. There's only a few theological and social positions I disagree with, but I don't let politics interfere with my faith. I've also studied all of the other major religions; Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Sikhism, Daoism, Islam, etc. I find evangelicals to be as exhausting as the JW's and the LDS.

I invited them also

 

[Cougarbear]

I've invited them into my house before. Just never heard of anyone "dating" them for a year. I invited the LDS into my home before too. I found the LDS and JW theologies to be lacking. Whereas with the Catholic Church I found most of their theology made sense. There's only a few theological and social positions I disagree with, but I don't let politics interfere with my faith. I've also studied all of the other major religions; Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Sikhism, Daoism, Islam, etc. I find evangelicals to be as exhausting as the JW's and the LDS.

Pick a "theology" of the Catholic Church that makes sense to you. I'll do the same with LDS that makes sense to me. And, we can have a clean discussion on yours and mine. How's that?

Ephesians 4:11-12, 14. "And He (Jesus) gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; for the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ......That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive."

From the LDS prospective, Apostles are prophets. But, not all prophets are apostles. Both are messengers between the Lord Jesus Christ and mankind. They are led to teach true doctrine of Christ. The evangelists and teachers are to convey the teachings of the doctrines of Christ that the apostles and prophets give to them. Nothing has changed since Paul and John were alive on the earth. Why would it? The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (members) is not only founded upon apostles and prophets, it continues to be the foundation of the Church from 1830 to the present. Read Ephisians 1:19-20, "Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints, and of the household of God; and are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief cornerstone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord."

Not only do the LDS have prophets and apostles expressly leading the Church, we also have built holy temples in the name of the Lord, The House of the Lord. The Catholic Church does not have apostles, prophets nor temples of the Lord. Therefore, their doctrines are also man made doctrines mingled with some scripture here or there.

 

[ding]

Pick a "theology" of the Catholic Church that makes sense to you. I'll do the same with LDS that makes sense to me. And, we can have a clean discussion on yours and mine. How's that?

Ephesians 4:11-12, 14. "And He (Jesus) gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; for the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ......That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive."

From the LDS prospective, Apostles are prophets. But, not all prophets are apostles. Both are messengers between the Lord Jesus Christ and mankind. They are led to teach true doctrine of Christ. The evangelists and teachers are to convey the teachings of the doctrines of Christ that the apostles and prophets give to them. Nothing has changed since Paul and John were alive on the earth. Why would it? The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (members) is not only founded upon apostles and prophets, it continues to be the foundation of the Church from 1830 to the present. Read Ephisians 1:19-20, "Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints, and of the household of God; and are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief cornerstone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord."

Not only do the LDS have prophets and apostles expressly leading the Church, we also have built holy temples in the name of the Lord, The House of the Lord. The Catholic Church does not have apostles, prophets nor temples of the Lord. Therefore, their doctrines are also man made doctrines mingled with some scripture here or there.

No thanks. I don’t concern myself with the form of religion or the people that do. I’m more interested in serving God than my religion.

 

[Cougarbear]

No thanks. I don’t concern myself with the form of religion or the people that do. I’m more interested in serving God than my religion.

You started it. But, as those who are all talk and no show attempt to make a statement and you can't back any of it up. Instead, you attempt to conceal the truth and live according to non-Christ doctrines. Put up or shut up.

 

[ding]

You started it. But, as those who are all talk and no show attempt to make a statement and you can't back any of it up. Instead, you attempt to conceal the truth and live according to non-Christ doctrines. Put up or shut up.

I’m sure you believe I did.

 

[Cougarbear]

I’m sure you believe I did.

You stated it very clearly. Now, I put out one of my beliefs that is correct and substantiated with Biblical scriptures. Now, tell me one of your Catholic doctrines that you believe is correct. And, use Biblica scriptures too. If not, you're all mouth.

 

[ding]

You stated it very clearly. Now, I put out one of my beliefs that is correct and substantiated with Biblical scriptures. Now, tell me one of your Catholic doctrines that you believe is correct. And, use Biblica scriptures too. If not, you're all mouth.

Tilt away, Don.

 

[Meriweather]

Not only do the LDS have prophets and apostles expressly leading the Church, we also have built holy temples in the name of the Lord, The House of the Lord. The Catholic Church does not have apostles, prophets nor temples of the Lord.

Hebrew etymology for prophet is one who proclaims the Word of God. Hebrew etymology for apostle is a trusted messenger who has been given full authority of an organization/agency to spread that message. Hebrew etymology for Temple is the singular center of worship and sacrifice.

In the Catholic faith, each baptized person is baptized as priest, prophet, and king: Prophet because each Catholic is called to proclaim the Word of God. There is also the special priesthood where one devotes one life singularly to the priesthood serving God and his people, proclaiming the word of God.

In the Catholic faith, thousands of Catholic priest serve as missionaries, going forth to spread the message of the Good News (Gospel) of the Kingdom of God, making disciples of all nations.

Finally, although we have Catholic places of worship (churches) all throughout the world, we have one singular center, and that is the Vatican.

It says much when a person cannot even identify the Biblical meaning and purpose of prophet, apostle, Temple in the Biblical sense, but form his/her own definitions and then declares no one but s/he follows that subsequent/different definition.

The Catholic Church, in fact, follows the Biblical definitions of each of these words, not the changed definitions of some organization formed eighteen hundred years later.

 

[Meriweather]

Pick a "theology" of the Catholic Church that makes sense to you. I'll do the same with LDS that makes sense to me. And, we can have a clean discussion on yours and mine. How's that?

No thanks. Your proposal won't work because the Catholic faith does not pick "a" theology. The Catholic faith is based on the entire Bible and Apostolic traditions, not any additional books/traditions written eighteen hundred years later.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

I am not a Jehovah's Witness, but I agree with most of their beliefs. What is it that causes many people to exclude them from Christianity?

so you agree with not celebreating christman,thanksgiving,4th of july and the like? being kicked out if you grow a beard? they kick you out for the craziest things,i know first hand my mom is one. the only thing i agreed with them on pretty much is not giving or taking blood.

they think the end is near and that the world will be a fiery blowout and every decade comes and it never happens yet they still think its right around the corner.LOL

 

[Cougarbear]

Hebrew etymology for prophet is one who proclaims the Word of God. Hebrew etymology for apostle is a trusted messenger who has been given full authority of an organization/agency to spread that message. Hebrew etymology for Temple is the singular center of worship and sacrifice.

In the Catholic faith, each baptized person is baptized as priest, prophet, and king: Prophet because each Catholic is called to proclaim the Word of God. There is also the special priesthood where one devotes one life singularly to the priesthood serving God and his people, proclaiming the word of God.

In the Catholic faith, thousands of Catholic priest serve as missionaries, going forth to spread the message of the Good News (Gospel) of the Kingdom of God, making disciples of all nations.

Finally, although we have Catholic places of worship (churches) all throughout the world, we have one singular center, and that is the Vatican.

It says much when a person cannot even identify the Biblical meaning and purpose of prophet, apostle, Temple in the Biblical sense, but form his/her own definitions and then declares no one but s/he follows that subsequent/different definition.

The Catholic Church, in fact, follows the Biblical definitions of each of these words, not the changed definitions of some organization formed eighteen hundred years later.

That's your definition, not the Lord's. Pretty much what Protestants believe as well. But, a Prophet of God is a person who speaks for God or a deity, or by divine inspiration. (in the Old Testament) a person chosen to speak for God and to guide the people of Israel. Moses was the greatest of Old Testament prophets. Do you speak for God or deity? When is the last time the Lord appeared to you in a vision or dream and taught you doctrine and also told you to teach Israel or the world anything? And, you are correct that "Apostles" are given authority to run the Church of Jesus Christ. Guess what? The Catholic Church has NO APOSTLES! The Pope is not an Apostle nor Prophet.
The Vatican is one singular center without an Apostle to run it. The real singular center is the President of the Church of Jesus Christ. Today, that would be Dallin H. Oaks.

 

[Cougarbear]

No thanks. Your proposal won't work because the Catholic faith does not pick "a" theology. The Catholic faith is based on the entire Bible and Apostolic traditions, not any additional books/traditions written eighteen hundred years later.

Really? What about all the Vatican councils that have taken place changing doctrine and all sorts of things? Those writings are doctrine and are considered holy in the Catholic Church. And, Apostolic traditions does not take the place of having real Apostles. LOL! Good grief. Same thing Protestants say too. A bible a bible, we have a bible! Sad.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

No thanks. Your proposal won't work because the Catholic faith does not pick "a" theology. The Catholic faith is based on the entire Bible and Apostolic traditions, not any additional books/traditions written eighteen hundred years later.

the Bible clearly states that there are other works of God to include books, the Bible is not the whole work of God

 

[otto105]

the Bible clearly states that there are other works of God to include books, the Bible is not the whole work of God

The bible wasn't a work of god, but of man.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

The bible wasn't a work of god, but of man.

go pedal your atheism elsewhere.

 

[otto105]

go pedal your atheism elsewhere.

Where in the bible does god state that he wrote it?

 

[Meriweather]

That's your definition, not the Lord's. Pretty much what Protestants believe as well. But, a Prophet of God is a person who speaks for God or a deity, or by divine inspiration. (in the Old Testament) a person chosen to speak for God and to guide the people of Israel. Moses was the greatest of Old Testament prophets. Do you speak for God or deity? When is the last time the Lord appeared to you in a vision or dream and taught you doctrine and also told you to teach Israel or the world anything? And, you are correct that "Apostles" are given authority to run the Church of Jesus Christ. Guess what? The Catholic Church has NO APOSTLES! The Pope is not an Apostle nor Prophet.
The Vatican is one singular center without an Apostle to run it. The real singular center is the President of the Church of Jesus Christ. Today, that would be Dallin H. Oaks.

As usual, you avoided the points I made, changing them to something entirely different as that is the only way to attempt knocking them aside. Read what I said. (Pssst: Speaking God's word is speaking for God.)

 

[Meriweather]

Really? What about all the Vatican councils that have taken place changing doctrine and all sorts of things? Those writings are doctrine and are considered holy in the Catholic Church. And, Apostolic traditions does not take the place of having real Apostles. LOL! Good grief. Same thing Protestants say too. A bible a bible, we have a bible! Sad.

Once again you are at a loss to address what I actually said.