It's the Ocean not the Atmosphere, dummy!

[Crick]

The rest of mainstream science believes that orbital cycles are responsible for ocean currents? Really?

To some extent, but the primary point, as you well know, is that mainstream science is quite convinced that Milankovitch Cycle forcings are responsible for the glacial-interglacial cycles of the last 2.58 million years. Did it ever occur to you that you'd have had more luck if you'd used your landmass configuration argument but over a large enough time span that it might actually work? I kept waiting for you to make that connection but it never came.

Why do I need qualifications to post technical papers explaining ocean currents and their impact to climate?

Because you are attempting to claim that changing ocean currents are responsible for our glacial-interglacial cycles and nothing you have posted or linked provides a shred of support for that claim.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0031018285800201

Deep Atlantic Circulation During the Last Glacial Maximum and Deglaciation​

https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1029/PA005i004p00469

Collapse and rapid resumption of Atlantic meridional circulation linked to deglacial climate changes - Nature​

https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1029/2010PA002032

Depending on the circulation pattern ocean currents can cause the planet to warm or cool in abrupt fashion.

In both of those studies, you've gotten the cart before the horse. Both discuss how climate changes altered ocean currents.

In other words, changing ocean currents are responsible for warming trends and cooling trends up to and including triggering glacial and interglacial periods.

Feel free, as I have invited you twice before, to provide quotations from these or other works actually supporting your contentions, because I have yet to see a shred of it.

Climate fluctuations and environmental uncertainty increased after the ice age (bipolar glaciation) began 3 million years ago and it is due to the planet's unique landmass distribution and changing ocean currents which is driven by uneven heating of the oceans.

Allow me to repeat what I said up above. Perhaps you should be thinking about landmass configuration as a large factor in the progress of ice ages, vice glacial-interglacial cycles. Go look up the factors that started the Quaternary and see what you find.

 

[ding]

To some extent, but the primary point, as you well know, is that mainstream science is quite convinced that Milankovitch Cycle forcings are responsible for the glacial-interglacial cycles of the last 2.58 million years. Did it ever occur to you that you'd have had more luck if you'd used your landmass configuration argument but over a large enough time span that it might actually work? I kept waiting for you to make that connection but it never came.

Because you are attempting to claim that changing ocean currents are responsible for our glacial-interglacial cycles and nothing you have posted or linked provides a shred of support for that claim.

In both of those studies, you've gotten the cart before the horse. Both discuss how climate changes altered ocean currents.

Feel free, as I have invited you twice before, to provide quotations from these or other works actually supporting your contentions, because I have yet to see a shred of it.

Allow me to repeat what I said up above. Perhaps you should be thinking about landmass configuration as a large factor in the progress of ice ages, vice glacial-interglacial cycles. Go look up the factors that started the Quaternary and see what you find.

Mainstream science should show their math or at least explain the mechanism for how orbital cycles trigger glacial and interglacial periods. Because it's quite obvious the planet's climate is being driven by ocean currents as that's where the heat is stored.

 

[Crick]

Mainstream science should show their math or at least explain the mechanism for how orbital cycles trigger glacial and interglacial periods. Because it's quite obvious the planet's climate is being driven by ocean currents as that's where the heat is stored.

Do you actually think they don't?

 

[ding]

Do you actually think they don't?

Yes, show me their calcs. Show me their explanation of the mechanism for how orbital cycles trigger glacial and interglacial periods.

 

[EMH]

Why, if the oceans are "warming," is the record decade for canes still the 1940s???

 

[ding]

Why, if the oceans are "warming," is the record decade for canes still the 1940s???

The oceans are warming, dummy.

But the answer top your question is that water temperature is only one of four variables that determine whether hurricanes form.

 

[Crick]

Yes, show me their calcs. Show me their explanation of the mechanism for how orbital cycles trigger glacial and interglacial periods.

You occasionally make me think your purpose here is masochistic.

Toward generalized Milankovitch theory (GMT)

Abstract. In recent decades, numerous paleoclimate records and results of model simulations have provided strong support for the astronomical theory of Quaternary glacial cycles formulated in its modern form by Milutin Milankovitch. At the same time, new findings have revealed that the classical...

cp.copernicus.org

View of Glacial Cycles and Milankovitch Forcing

pubs.lib.umn.edu

https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/earth-and-planetary-sciences/milankovitch-cycle

Milankovitch Cycles, Paleoclimatic Change, and Hominin Evolution

Changes in Earth's orbit have helped pace climatic change for millennia. Scientists are now trying to understand whether - and how - these changes remodeled the landscapes our ancient ancestors inhabited.

www.nature.com

 

[EMH]

The oceans are warming, dummy.

But the answer top your question is that water temperature is only one of four variables that determine whether hurricanes form.

The oceans are not warming, and that is why there is no breakout in canes.

The data is quite clear...

U.S. Hurricane Strikes by Decade

 

[Crick]

The oceans are not warming, and that is why there is no breakout in canes.

The data is quite clear...

U.S. Hurricane Strikes by Decade

You seem to think that the hurricane data is more fundamental then the temperature data. This is as if someone showed you your home on fire but you said "I don't see any smoke, so you must be lying"

 

[ding]

You occasionally make me think your purpose here is masochistic.

Toward generalized Milankovitch theory (GMT)

Abstract. In recent decades, numerous paleoclimate records and results of model simulations have provided strong support for the astronomical theory of Quaternary glacial cycles formulated in its modern form by Milutin Milankovitch. At the same time, new findings have revealed that the classical...

cp.copernicus.org

View of Glacial Cycles and Milankovitch Forcing

pubs.lib.umn.edu

https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/earth-and-planetary-sciences/milankovitch-cycle

Milankovitch Cycles, Paleoclimatic Change, and Hominin Evolution

Changes in Earth's orbit have helped pace climatic change for millennia. Scientists are now trying to understand whether - and how - these changes remodeled the landscapes our ancient ancestors inhabited.

www.nature.com

Is it too much to ask you to summarize this for me like I have been doing for you?

 

[ding]

The oceans are not warming, and that is why there is no breakout in canes.

The data is quite clear...

U.S. Hurricane Strikes by Decade

Measured temperatures say otherwise.

 

[Crick]

Is it too much to ask you to summarize this for me like I have been doing for you?

You asked me for studies on Milankovitch and glacial cycles that showed their math. Short term memory issues?

 

[ding]

You asked me for studies on Milankovitch and glacial cycles that showed their math. Short term memory issues?

So that's a no? You can't summarize it for me? Would you like for me to summarize my argument for you?

Your problem is that no one has come up with a mechanism for orbital cycles triggering glacial or interglacial periods. Which is why you can't summarize it. And I haven't even gotten started on all of the climate fluctuations within glacial and interglacial periods. They are quite chaotic. Love to hear your explanation for that using orbital cycles.

 

[Crick]

So that's a no? You can't summarize it for me? Would you like for me to summarize my argument for you?

Your problem is that no one has come up with a mechanism for orbital cycles triggering glacial or interglacial periods. Which is why you can't summarize it. And I haven't even gotten started on all of the climate fluctuations within glacial and interglacial periods. They are quite chaotic. Love to hear your explanation for that using orbital cycles.

This is another bad habit of yours. When I answer your challenge, you try to move the goalposts. Here is your original request

Yes, show me their calcs. Show me their explanation of the mechanism for how orbital cycles trigger glacial and interglacial periods.

So, how about this? How about you show me YOUR calculations. Have you had calculus? Differential equations?

Your problem is that no one has come up with a mechanism for orbital cycles triggering glacial or interglacial periods.

That is a lie as demonstrated by several of the papers to which I just linked.

Which is why you can't summarize it.

I've made no attempt to summarize it because I have gone well above and beyond what anyone could ask of me to correct your ignorant misunderstandings and identify your falsehoods.

And I haven't even gotten started on all of the climate fluctuations within glacial and interglacial periods. They are quite chaotic. Love to hear your explanation for that using orbital cycles.

How many studies have you now put up here which you claimed supported your contention that the glacial cycle was being driven by changes in overturning currents only to find in every single instance that instead they were saying changes in the overturning currents were being driven by the glacial cycle.

 

[ding]

This is another bad habit of yours. When I answer your challenge, you try to move the goalposts. Here is your original request



So, how about this? How about you show me YOUR calculations. Have you had calculus? Differential equations?


That is a lie as demonstrated by several of the papers to which I just linked.

I've made no attempt to summarize it because I have gone well above and beyond what anyone could ask of me to correct your ignorant misunderstandings and identify your falsehoods.


How many studies have you now put up here which you claimed supported your contention that the glacial cycle was being driven by changes in overturning currents only to find in every single instance that instead they were saying changes in the overturning currents were being driven by the glacial cycle.

You can't explain the mechanism in which orbital changes cause glaciation or deglaciation. No one can or has because they can't. It's a silly correlation which isn't perfect and has a vague explanation that can't explain glacial and interglacial triggers. Feel free to explain it.

Because I'm going to keep explaining how the ocean currents cause warming and cooling trends up to and including abrupt glaciation and deglaciation events.

The geologic record is littered with warming and cooling trends within glacial and interglacial periods that can not be caused by orbital changes. They can only be explained by how ocean currents change how heat is distributed.

 

[Crick]

You can't explain the mechanism in which orbital changes cause glaciation or deglaciation. No one can or has because they can't. It's a silly correlation which isn't perfect and has a vague explanation that can't explain glacial and interglacial triggers. Feel free to explain it.

Because I'm going to keep explaining how the ocean currents cause warming and cooling trends up to and including abrupt glaciation and deglaciation events.

The geologic record is littered with warming and cooling trends within glacial and interglacial periods that can not be caused by orbital changes. They can only be explained by how ocean currents change how heat is distributed.

I HAVE shown you their work. Your claim that they haven't done so is a blatant LIE. And you have shown ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in the way of supporting calculations. And I never expected you to do so - you're no sort of scientist and I'm not sure you've even had a single math class beyond the minimum necessary. But you have attempted to find studies that supported your claims and you have put some links up here. The problem, though, is that the articles at those links simply do not support your claims and you have shown yourself unable to argue otherwise. Your babble about ocean currents and the litter of the geological record are completely and utterly meaningless drivel.

 

[ding]

I HAVE shown you their work. Your claim that they haven't done so is a blatant LIE. And you have shown ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in the way of supporting calculations. And I never expected you to do so - you're no sort of scientist and I'm not sure you've even had a single math class beyond the minimum necessary. But you have attempted to find studies that supported your claims and you have put some links up here. The problem, though, is that the articles at those links simply do not support your claims and you have shown yourself unable to argue otherwise. Your babble about ocean currents and the litter of the geological record are completely and utterly meaningless drivel.

Great, then summarize how orbital cycles triggers glacial and interglacial events.

 

[Crick]

Great, then summarize how orbital cycles triggers glacial and interglacial events.

While you have posted over and over again about the heat capacity of the oceans and changing currents, you fina absolutely nothing in the way of expert opinion actually supporting your contentions. Meanwhile, all I have to do is ask. I asked Google "What causes the glacial-interglacial cycle?"and got the following results:

Glacial-interglacialcycles are caused by variations in Earth's orbit around the sun,which change the amount of solar radiation that reaches differentparts of the planet's surface each season. These variations arecalled Milankovitch cycles and include three orbital changes:

• Eccentricity: Changes in Earth's orbit around the sun
• Obliquity: Shifts in the tilt of Earth's axis
• Precession: The wobbling motion of Earth's axis
  
  These changes trigger a chain reaction of positive feedbacks that involvethe spread of ice and the release of greenhouse gases. During glacial periods, summers with weaker solar radiation allow large icesheets to form at high northern latitudes. During interglacial periods, more intense summer solar radiation melts the icesheets. When the orbital cycle shifts back, these feedbacks work in reverse to warm the Earth up again.

AI Overview

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What causes glacial–interglacial cycles? Variations in Earth's orbit through time have changed the amount of solar radiation Earth receives in each season. Interglacial periods tend to happen during times of more intense summer solar radiation in the Northern Hemisphere.

Glacial-InterglacialCycles
NationalCenters for Environmental Information (NCEI) (.gov)

https://www.ncei.noaa.gov› sites › default › files

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Glacials and interglacials occur in fairly regular repeated cycles.

The timing is governed to a large degree by predictable cyclic changes in Earth’s orbit, which affect the amount of sunlight reaching different parts of Earth’s surface. The three orbital variations are: (1) changes in Earth’s orbit around the Sun (eccentricity), (2) shifts in the tilt of Earth’s axis (obliquity), and (3) the wobbling motion of Earth’s axis (precession).

https://geology.utah.gov/map-pub/survey-notes/glad-you-asked/ice-ages-what-are-they-and-what-causes-them/

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Glacial-interglacial cycles are believed to be driven by changes in the orbital pattern of the Earth that has periods of about 20 ka, 40 ka and 100 ka [25].

https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/earth-and-planetary-sciences/glacial-interglacial-cycle

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The next logical item to consider is what factors cause those regular shifts between glacial and interglacial periods. It turns out that three of the most critical factors are related to the position and orientation of the Earth with respect to the Sun: eccentricity, precession, and obliquity (or tilt).

https://sites.gsu.edu/geog1112/lab-7-glacial-interglacial-cycles/

This list will go on as long as I want to keep cutting and pasting. NO other opinions are expressed. NO one agrees with you. NO ONE.

 

[Dante]

And now for some science based tales (to counter the OP), and scientific facts: NASA is investigation, doing research.

NASA’s PACE To Investigate Oceans, Atmosphere in Changing Climate - NASA Science

Earth’s oceans and atmosphere are changing as the planet warms. Some ocean waters become greener as more microscopic organisms bloom. In the atmosphere,

science.nasa.gov

NASA’s PACE To Investigate Oceans, Atmosphere in Changing Climate​

Earth is complex – the atmosphere, ocean, land, and each small interwoven facet of those systems is a puzzle piece that connects and fills out the full picture. With a changing climate, the puzzle is becoming more complex – and important – to understand.
Credits: NASA / Ryan Fitzgibbons and Emme Watkins
Erica McNamee
Jan 11, 2024

Article
Earth’s oceans and atmosphere are changing as the planet warms. Some ocean waters become greener as more microscopic organisms bloom. In the atmosphere, dust storms born on one continent affect the air quality of another, while smoke from massive wildfires can blanket entire regions for days.

NASA’s newest Earth-observing satellite, called PACE (Plankton, Aerosol, Cloud, ocean Ecosystem), is launching in February 2024 to help us better understand the complex systems driving these and other global changes that come with a warming climate.

primer:

How does the ocean affect climate and weather on land?​

The ocean influences weather and climate by storing solar radiation, distributing heat and moisture around the globe, and driving weather systems.​

How does the ocean affect climate and weather on land? : Ocean Exploration Facts: NOAA Ocean Exploration

oceanexplorer.noaa.gov

 

[ding]

The ocean influences weather and climate by storing solar radiation, distributing heat and moisture around the globe, and driving weather systems.

100%

#winning