It's the Ocean not the Atmosphere, dummy!

[Crick]

So, the wind effects the climate then. Now you're catching on.

I think it would be more accurate to say that predominant wind patterns are a product of climate rather than vice versa.

 

[ReinyDays]

I guess I should fuck off then ... my claim is we treat the ocean surface as our blackbody radiator, and use radiative physics to model the energy transfer through the atmosphere ... the oceans are great moderators of temperature, for the reasons you point out ... but they have no effect on wind direction, and wind causes currents, you have that backwards in your OP ...

Where the atmosphere and oceans meet is a very special place ... and special things happen there ... just a few molecules thick on either side ... like magic until the QM freaks spoiled everything ...

Climate begins after the water molecules evaporate ... and ends once the water molecules are returned as precipitation ... the rest is hydrology and more akin to geology, or so I would guess ...

 

[BULLDOG]

I think it would be more accurate to say that predominant wind patterns are a product of climate rather than vice versa.

It's an interconnected system. Change any one aspect, and the rest follow to one degree or another. Our job is to identify which parts we are capable of changing to maintain the best overall effect. The goober was right in that the oceans maintain their thermal state longer, but it's goofy to say that is the only determining factor.

 

[ding]

You have found ZERO experts expressing anything that supports your contention but you do nothing but keep repeating yourself. You're not just stupid, you've got some mental issues going on.

How many more papers are you going to pretend don't exist?

https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1029/2010PA002032

 

[ding]

It's an interconnected system. Change any one aspect, and the rest follow to one degree or another. Our job is to identify which parts we are capable of changing to maintain the best overall effect. The goober was right in that the oceans maintain their thermal state longer, but it's goofy to say that is the only determining factor.

Actually it's not. It's dominated by the heat circulation of the ocean of which the source of the heat is dominated by solar radiation and not by the heat of the atmosphere.

 

[ding]

I guess I should fuck off then ... my claim is we treat the ocean surface as our blackbody radiator, and use radiative physics to model the energy transfer through the atmosphere ... the oceans are great moderators of temperature, for the reasons you point out ... but they have no effect on wind direction, and wind causes currents, you have that backwards in your OP ...

Where the atmosphere and oceans meet is a very special place ... and special things happen there ... just a few molecules thick on either side ... like magic until the QM freaks spoiled everything ...

Climate begins after the water molecules evaporate ... and ends once the water molecules are returned as precipitation ... the rest is hydrology and more akin to geology, or so I would guess ...

Correct.

 

[BULLDOG]

Actually it's not. It's dominated by the heat circulation of the ocean of which the source of the heat is dominated by solar radiation and not by the heat of the atmosphere.

Dominated is not the same as the only controlling factor, dumb ass. The reality that I'm not an NFL quarterback is dominated by the fact that I was never interested in trying that. The fact that I'm old is also a pretty big factor. There can be lots of contributing factors, some more determinative than others, but all contribute to the outcome.

 

[ding]

Dominated is not the same as the only controlling factor, dumb ass. The reality that I'm not an NFL quarterback is dominated by the fact that I was never interested in trying that. The fact that I'm old is also a pretty big factor. There can be lots of contributing factors, some more determinative than others, but all contribute to the outcome.

Did you read any of the published papers?

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0031018285800201

Deep Atlantic Circulation During the Last Glacial Maximum and Deglaciation​

https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1029/PA005i004p00469

Collapse and rapid resumption of Atlantic meridional circulation linked to deglacial climate changes - Nature

The Atlantic meridional overturning circulation is widely believed to affect climate. Changes in ocean circulation have been inferred from records of the deep water chemical composition derived from sedimentary nutrient proxies1, but their impact on climate is difficult to assess because such...

www.nature.com

https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1029/2010PA002032

 

[ding]

Talk about science deniers, yeesh.

 

[Crick]

How many more papers are you going to pretend don't exist?

https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1029/2010PA002032

One that says this:

Abstract​

[1] The waters passing through the Florida Straits today reflect both the western portion of the wind-driven subtropical gyre and the northward flow of the upper waters which cross the equator, compensating North Atlantic Deep Water export as part of the large-scale Atlantic meridional overturning circulation. It has been postulated from various lines of evidence that the overturning circulation was weaker during the Younger Dryas cold event of the last deglaciation. We show here that the contrast in the oxygen isotopic composition of benthic foraminiferal tests across the Florida Current is reduced during the Younger Dryas. This most likely reflects a decrease in the density gradient across the channel and a decrease in the vertical shear of the Florida Current. This reduced shear is consistent with the postulated reduction in the Atlantic meridional overturning circulation. We find that the onset of this change in density structure and flow at the start of the Younger Dryas is very abrupt, occurring in less than 70 years.

A "deglaciation" is the planet getting warmer.
A "cold event" during a deglaciation is a hiccup.
No where in this paper does it even hint that changes in ocean circulation were responsible for glaciation, deglaciation or the cycle as a whole.
The circulation discussion in this paper is going over what HAPPENED as a result of the processes that actually WERE driving the deglaciation.
This sort of thing has been true for EVERY single paper you've attempted to throw up here in support of your idiotic nonsense.

 

[ding]

One that says this:

Abstract​

[1] The waters passing through the Florida Straits today reflect both the western portion of the wind-driven subtropical gyre and the northward flow of the upper waters which cross the equator, compensating North Atlantic Deep Water export as part of the large-scale Atlantic meridional overturning circulation. It has been postulated from various lines of evidence that the overturning circulation was weaker during the Younger Dryas cold event of the last deglaciation. We show here that the contrast in the oxygen isotopic composition of benthic foraminiferal tests across the Florida Current is reduced during the Younger Dryas. This most likely reflects a decrease in the density gradient across the channel and a decrease in the vertical shear of the Florida Current. This reduced shear is consistent with the postulated reduction in the Atlantic meridional overturning circulation. We find that the onset of this change in density structure and flow at the start of the Younger Dryas is very abrupt, occurring in less than 70 years.

A "deglaciation" is the planet getting warmer.
A "cold event" during a deglaciation is a hiccup.
No where in this paper does it even hint that changes in ocean circulation were responsible for glaciation, deglaciation or the cycle as a whole.
The circulation discussion in this paper is going over what HAPPENED as a result of the processes that actually WERE driving the deglaciation.
This sort of thing has been true for EVERY single paper you've attempted to throw up here in support of your idiotic nonsense.

Not sure how you think this doesn't prove my point.

 

[ding]

Depending on the circulation pattern ocean currents can cause the planet to warm or cool in abrupt fashion.

Word

 

[Crick]

Depending on the circulation pattern ocean currents can cause the planet to warm or cool in abrupt fashion.

Word

Does the ocean circulate up to the TOA?

 

[ding]

Does the ocean circulate up to the TOA?

I can't believe a supposed "ocean engineer" such as yourself is arguing that the ocean doesn't drive the climate of the planet. It's astonishing.

 

[Crick]

I can't believe a supposed "ocean engineer" such as yourself is arguing that the ocean doesn't drive the climate of the planet. It's astonishing.

What's astonishing is that someone who has received as many corrections as you have in your glaring misunderstandings of junior high school science should think you're qualified to criticize anyone else for damned near anything.

 

[ding]

What's astonishing is that someone who has received as many corrections as you have in your glaring misunderstandings of junior high school science should think you're qualified to criticize anyone else for damned near anything.

There have been no corrections. You can't compose a coherent paragraph of your argument against ocean currents controlling climate.

 

[ding]

What's astonishing is that someone who has received as many corrections as you have in your glaring misunderstandings of junior high school science should think you're qualified to criticize anyone else for damned near anything.

Depending on the circulation pattern ocean currents can cause the planet to warm or cool in abrupt fashion.

In other words, changing ocean currents are responsible for warming trends and cooling trends up to and including triggering glacial and interglacial periods.

Climate fluctuations and environmental uncertainty increased after the ice age (bipolar glaciation) began 3 million years ago and it is due to the planet's unique landmass distribution and changing ocean currents which is driven by uneven heating of the oceans.

 

[sparky]

If you make a stupid post, I'll just funny it and laugh at you. If you make a thoughtful post, I'll chat. Otherwise fuck off.

fair enough

i've read similar material in the past

I'll simply say it appears to constantly be overlooked, if not ignored

that, i'm afraid, is the level of my intellectual input here

~S~

 

[ding]

fair enough

i've read similar material in the past

I'll simply say it appears to constantly be overlooked, if not ignored

that, i'm afraid, is the level of my intellectual input here

~S~

Almost intentionally so given that's where the heat is stored and everyone recognizes that ocean currents drive climate.

 

[ding]

Are we learning yet?