It's a False Doctrine That People Go To Heaven Immediately After Death

[Zona]

Or hell for that matter.

You guys do realize that don't you?

I'm here watching the service live and it's just one false doctrine after the other.

Christiandom as it's today is in a state of confusion.

Marc, you know I respect your opinion, but whatever a person believes and it doesn't negatively impact anyone else, I don't care. I let it be. If they believe in toasters and it makes them happy....so be it.

 

[Zona]

How do you know? Have you died?

Actually I have. All I can say is, I went from an uh incident in the military to being in my mother's house. I was home three thousand miles away for a few minutes. It was pretty strange. Eh...could have just been trauma but it was weird. And believe me, i am not religious in any way.

 

[MarcATL]

Or hell for that matter.

You guys do realize that don't you?

I'm here watching the service live and it's just one false doctrine after the other.

Christiandom as it's today is in a state of confusion.

Marc, you know I respect your opinion, but whatever a person believes and it doesn't negatively impact anyone else, I don't care. I let it be. If they believe in toasters and it makes them happy....so be it.

I understand your POV Zona. I'm simply referring to the Christian perspective.

 

[hortysir]

BTW, what service were you watching Marc?

 

[MarcATL]

BTW, what service were you watching Marc?

I believe it was for the murdered kids of Connecticut.

They televised a multi-denominational service...you remember that?

 

[hortysir]

BTW, what service were you watching Marc?

I believe it was for the murdered kids of Connecticut.

They televised a multi-denominational service...you remember that?

Yea.....I just knew this thread was a little old and couldn't nail it down.

FWIW, I completely agree with the point of the OP

 

[The Irish Ram]

In the very day that you first got down on your knees to worship a false triune godman you died and descended into the netherworld where you remain tormented day and night by confusion and irrational nightmares about angels and demons and an edible triune godman that never existed.

Hob, my pulse tells a different story. I'm alive and well in Christ. Angels have been given charge over me, lest I stub my toe. My Father loves me, my days are filled with contentment, my dreams are happy, my life is peaceful, my needs are met, and my eternity is secure.

If scripture is true, I am co-heir to the universe, have a seat at my Father's table, will return to rule and reign with Christ, be reunited with those that have gone before me, and spend an eternity cloaked in the Agape love of my creator. I've never been in better shape in my life.

The only problem I have is, how do I get you there with me.

 

[The Irish Ram]

How do you know? Have you died?

Actually I have. All I can say is, I went from an uh incident in the military to being in my mother's house. I was home three thousand miles away for a few minutes. It was pretty strange. Eh...could have just been trauma but it was weird. And believe me, i am not religious in any way.

Do you think you were there in your mother's house, or were you dreaming you were there while you were unconscious, or whatever state your incident left you in? What did you perceive went you went to your mother's house, and were you aware of how long you were there, at the time it happened? Were you aware of self while you were absent from the body? What makes you categorize the experience as weird? Do you feel it falls in the realm of a simple case of trauma related delirium, or somehow falls outside of what you would expect to happen to you during the trauma? Could your soul have taken a trip without the clay shell?

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Or hell for that matter.

You guys do realize that don't you?

I'm here watching the service live and it's just one false doctrine after the other.

Christiandom as it's today is in a state of confusion.

Where's your proof?

 

[MarcATL]

Or hell for that matter.

You guys do realize that don't you?

I'm here watching the service live and it's just one false doctrine after the other.

Christiandom as it's today is in a state of confusion.

Where's your proof?

It's in Scripture.

Read through the thread my brother, I've posted a number of specific texts.

 

[hobelim]

In the very day that you first got down on your knees to worship a false triune godman you died and descended into the netherworld where you remain tormented day and night by confusion and irrational nightmares about angels and demons and an edible triune godman that never existed.

Hob, my pulse tells a different story. I'm alive and well in Christ. Angels have been given charge over me, lest I stub my toe. My Father loves me, my days are filled with contentment, my dreams are happy, my life is peaceful, my needs are met, and my eternity is secure.

If scripture is true, I am co-heir to the universe, have a seat at my Father's table, will return to rule and reign with Christ, be reunited with those that have gone before me, and spend an eternity cloaked in the Agape love of my creator. I've never been in better shape in my life.

The only problem I have is, how do I get you there with me.

I see, so you want to rule the universe. Good luck with that ...but when you die you might be surprised to find out that there is only one God who already has the job.

Anyway, you could always try to ply me with wine and crackers and promises of paradise.

Its possible that after a vat of communion wine I might let you lay your hands on me.

 

[barry1960]

Or hell for that matter.

You guys do realize that don't you?

I'm here watching the service live and it's just one false doctrine after the other.

Christiandom as it's today is in a state of confusion.

My belief is that when we die our spirit is as if it were asleep awaiting for the return of Christ. Those who die have no conscious thought. We do not go to either heaven or hell immediately, that is not until final judgement by God.

I believe that people want to believe that loved ones are currently in heaven and able to look down upon us because it gives them comfort. However such belief does not appear biblically supported.

 

[MarcATL]

Or hell for that matter.

You guys do realize that don't you?

I'm here watching the service live and it's just one false doctrine after the other.

Christiandom as it's today is in a state of confusion.

My belief is that when we die our spirit is as if it were asleep awaiting for the return of Christ. Those who die have no conscious thought. We do not go to either heaven or hell immediately, that is not until final judgement by God.

I believe that people want to believe that loved ones are currently in heaven and able to look down upon us because it gives them comfort. However such belief does not appear biblically supported.

That's what I posted. That is based on Scripture.

 

[hobelim]

Or hell for that matter.

You guys do realize that don't you?

I'm here watching the service live and it's just one false doctrine after the other.

Christiandom as it's today is in a state of confusion.

My belief is that when we die our spirit is as if it were asleep awaiting for the return of Christ. Those who die have no conscious thought. We do not go to either heaven or hell immediately, that is not until final judgement by God.

I believe that people want to believe that loved ones are currently in heaven and able to look down upon us because it gives them comfort. However such belief does not appear biblically supported.

That's what I posted. That is based on Scripture.

according to the story of the transfiguration ( which I believe was a dream the disciples had after 'they fell into a deep sleep' ) Jesus is seen talking to Elijah and Moses.

This shows that heaven is already in existence and those who have earned a place in the world to come are already there, whether they died a long time ago or whether they are still living as Jesus was at the time..

 

[MarcATL]

according to the story of the transfiguration ( which I believe was a dream the disciples had after 'they fell into a deep sleep' ) Jesus is seen talking to Elijah and Moses.

This shows that heaven is already in existence and those who have earned a place in the world to come are already there.

You are unfortunately confused my brother.

You see, there are a total of THREE (3) humans in Scripture that was taken to heaven.

You just listed 2 of them, the third is Enoch, who Scripture says "walked with God until God took him."

Genesis 5:24 KJV - And Enoch walked with God: and he was - Bible Gateway

Those are the ONLY exceptions to the rule, they are specific and set apart from the rest.

You see, when it comes to the Scripture, you should take it as what it is, not for what you think or have been taught it to be.

If this is a new concept for you, I understand how you're confused, but Scripture couldn't be more clear on the matter.

I've already posted a text from Leviticus I believe where God warns the Israelites NOT to consult those who claim to talk to the dead. The passage goes into why, it has to do with the state of the dead that they know nothing, no longer in existence, not in heaven, hell or anywhere else looking down or up...just like I said in the OP.

Study the Scripture my brother, you'll see the light.

 

[hobelim]

according to the story of the transfiguration ( which I believe was a dream the disciples had after 'they fell into a deep sleep' ) Jesus is seen talking to Elijah and Moses.

This shows that heaven is already in existence and those who have earned a place in the world to come are already there.

You are unfortunately confused my brother.

You see, there are a total of THREE (3) humans in Scripture that was taken to heaven.

You just listed 2 of them, the third is Enoch, who Scripture says "walked with God until God took him."

Genesis 5:24 KJV - And Enoch walked with God: and he was - Bible Gateway

Those are the ONLY exceptions to the rule, they are specific and set apart from the rest.

You see, when it comes to the Scripture, you should take it as what it is, not for what you think or have been taught it to be.

If this is a new concept for you, I understand how you're confused, but Scripture couldn't be more clear on the matter.

I've already posted a text from Leviticus I believe where God warns the Israelites NOT to consult those who claim to talk to the dead. The passage goes into why, it has to do with the state of the dead that they know nothing, no longer in existence, not in heaven, hell or anywhere else looking down or up...just like I said in the OP.

Study the Scripture my brother, you'll see the light.

Hmm. Thanks. Talking with people who are in the kingdom of heaven is not talking with people who are dead. God is the God of the living in this world and the next.

I just read the part where Jesus tells the Pharisees that sinners and prostitutes were entering the kingdom of heaven before them, and they were not dead or floating up into the sky.

Let there be light.

 

[MarcATL]

according to the story of the transfiguration ( which I believe was a dream the disciples had after 'they fell into a deep sleep' ) Jesus is seen talking to Elijah and Moses.

This shows that heaven is already in existence and those who have earned a place in the world to come are already there.

You are unfortunately confused my brother.

You see, there are a total of THREE (3) humans in Scripture that was taken to heaven.

You just listed 2 of them, the third is Enoch, who Scripture says "walked with God until God took him."

Genesis 5:24 KJV - And Enoch walked with God: and he was - Bible Gateway

Those are the ONLY exceptions to the rule, they are specific and set apart from the rest.

You see, when it comes to the Scripture, you should take it as what it is, not for what you think or have been taught it to be.

If this is a new concept for you, I understand how you're confused, but Scripture couldn't be more clear on the matter.

I've already posted a text from Leviticus I believe where God warns the Israelites NOT to consult those who claim to talk to the dead. The passage goes into why, it has to do with the state of the dead that they know nothing, no longer in existence, not in heaven, hell or anywhere else looking down or up...just like I said in the OP.

Study the Scripture my brother, you'll see the light.

Hmm. Thanks. Talking with people who are in the kingdom of heaven is not talking with people who are dead. God is the God of the living in this world and the next.

I just read the part where Jesus tells the Pharisees that sinners and prostitutes were entering the kingdom of heaven before them, and they were not dead or floating up into the sky.

Let there be light.

Can you point me to a text in Scripture that states, suggests or supports that there's people who have died and gone to heaven (supposedly) and are looking down and/or communicating with their loved ones or others who are currently alive?

Thanks.

 

[hobelim]

You are unfortunately confused my brother.

You see, there are a total of THREE (3) humans in Scripture that was taken to heaven.

You just listed 2 of them, the third is Enoch, who Scripture says "walked with God until God took him."

Genesis 5:24 KJV - And Enoch walked with God: and he was - Bible Gateway

Those are the ONLY exceptions to the rule, they are specific and set apart from the rest.

You see, when it comes to the Scripture, you should take it as what it is, not for what you think or have been taught it to be.

If this is a new concept for you, I understand how you're confused, but Scripture couldn't be more clear on the matter.

I've already posted a text from Leviticus I believe where God warns the Israelites NOT to consult those who claim to talk to the dead. The passage goes into why, it has to do with the state of the dead that they know nothing, no longer in existence, not in heaven, hell or anywhere else looking down or up...just like I said in the OP.

Study the Scripture my brother, you'll see the light.

Hmm. Thanks. Talking with people who are in the kingdom of heaven is not talking with people who are dead. God is the God of the living in this world and the next.

I just read the part where Jesus tells the Pharisees that sinners and prostitutes were entering the kingdom of heaven before them, and they were not dead or floating up into the sky.

Let there be light.

Can you point me to a text in Scripture that states, suggests or supports that there's people who have died and gone to heaven (supposedly) and are looking down and/or communicating with their loved ones or others who are currently alive?

Thanks.

Sure, read any of the accounts of the resurrection.

in addition to that, when Jesus said, "If anyone obeys my teaching he shall never know what it is to die." John 8:51, he was saying that their conscious life will not end with physical death and clearing up the subject of his flesh and blood that gives eternal life by specifying that the source of that life is the teaching that Jesus received from God like manna from heaven about how to correctly understand the figurative words and hidden subjects in the divine commands that results in the promise of eternal life fulfilled,.

Those who take part in this first resurrection from the tomb of false religion cannot be harmed by the second death which is death of the body.

If they cannot be harmed by the second death and if they will never know what it is to die adds up to immediate entry into heaven upon death of the body, for the righteous that is...

See the light yourself.

 

[MarcATL]

Hmm. Thanks. Talking with people who are in the kingdom of heaven is not talking with people who are dead. God is the God of the living in this world and the next.

I just read the part where Jesus tells the Pharisees that sinners and prostitutes were entering the kingdom of heaven before them, and they were not dead or floating up into the sky.

Let there be light.

Can you point me to a text in Scripture that states, suggests or supports that there's people who have died and gone to heaven (supposedly) and are looking down and/or communicating with their loved ones or others who are currently alive?

Thanks.

Sure, read any of the accounts of the resurrection.

in addition to that, when Jesus said, "If anyone obeys my teaching he shall never know what it is to die." John 8:51, he was saying that their conscious life will not end with physical death and clearing up the subject of his flesh and blood that gives eternal life by specifying that the source of that life is the teaching that Jesus received from God like manna from heaven about how to correctly understand the figurative words and hidden subjects in the divine commands that results in the promise of eternal life fulfilled,.

Those who take part in this first resurrection from the tomb of false religion cannot be harmed by the second death which is death of the body.

If they cannot be harmed by the second death and if they will never know what it is to die adds up to immediate entry into heaven upon death of the body, for the righteous that is...

See the light yourself.

Select a text or two to go over, if you will.

OK, you did...John 8:51.

I'll come back to this later...I got work to do.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Or hell for that matter.

You guys do realize that don't you?

I'm here watching the service live and it's just one false doctrine after the other.

Christiandom as it's today is in a state of confusion.

My belief is that when we die our spirit is as if it were asleep awaiting for the return of Christ. Those who die have no conscious thought. We do not go to either heaven or hell immediately, that is not until final judgement by God.

I believe that people want to believe that loved ones are currently in heaven and able to look down upon us because it gives them comfort. However such belief does not appear biblically supported.

But it is barry. No soul was sleeping in Abraham's bosom. Lazarus was carried there by angels, and was awake when he got there. Christ didn't sleep. He never missed a beat, and neither did the thief on the cross, no rest period being mentioned before they headed for paradise.

2 Corinthians 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

The clay "sleeps". The soul does not. And at the rapture, your soul, which is present with Christ, will be reunited with your body, which is made incorruptible. That takes place at the same time the living in Christ are also taken up, their bodies made incorruptible in transit.

That event will take place because we are not subject to God's wrath, and wrath is going to hit the fan when we fail to heed His warning concerning the dividing up of His land, Israel, as per the upcoming "peace treaty" we keep insisting Israel sign.

WW3 ends with Christ and HIS army, in their incorruptible bodies, returning with Christ, to usher in the millennial reign of Christ. The final judgement, the White Throne Judgement, takes place after the 1,000 year reign. The earth gives up it's dead, < those who died without the gift of salvation through Christ, (those souls presently in Hades with the rich man, very alert and aware of their circumstances, Luke 16: 19:31) and they are judged while still wearing their sin.

AND I CAN"T STRESS THIS ENOUGH:
If you accept Christ, you accept Him disposing of your sin for you. All of it. THERE IS NO SIN FOR YOU TO BE JUDGED ON. You are taken right to your Father, for your coronation, because you are an heir of the Most High.
At that time, what takes place in Heaven is the BEMA JUDGEMENT of CHRIST. That is your reward party. Your GOOD DEEDS done for Christ's sake are rewarded at that time.
That is the only judgement a person covered by the blood of Christ will ever attend.

Heb. 8:12 "FOR I WILL BE MERCIFUL TO THEIR INIQUITIES, AND I WILL REMEMBER THEIR SINS NO MORE."