It's a False Doctrine That People Go To Heaven Immediately After Death

Or hell for that matter.

You guys do realize that don't you?

I'm here watching the service live and it's just one false doctrine after the other.

Christiandom as it's today is in a state of confusion.

My initial response to your post, as a Christian, is who cares. What and who I know is JESUS and that is all that matters to me. I know the Truth who sets me free, who leads me and guides me every step that I take in this world, every day of my life. I am never ever alone and I trustJesus absolutely and completely. And of course Christianity of this world with all the details that different Christians teach, and all have different beliefs, is flawed. Of course, it is. But Jesus is not. Sherri
 
Sarge, if you believe in God, and specifically Jesus, belong to the Bible and make it the criteria for which all other teachings are judged. If what you are taught doesn't correlate with the Bible, then the teaching is wrong. Change teachers. Don't change the Bible to make it conform to the false teaching.

Doctrine is the only thing we are allowed to judge. Can the righteous doctrine we are being taught, be found in the Bible? Do you know the Bible well enough to discern a non-truth or an adding to the word when you hear it, or are you banking on someone else getting it right.

For instance, we are warned to be sober, to avoid "pharmacy". Which means don't join Bongs for Jesus.

Which is it, do you believe in Jesus or do you worship The Bible?
 
Didn't we pretty much say the same thing? Doctrine flawed, Christ not.

How do you discern the flaws when you here them if not by comparing what is being taught and believed by Christians these days to what Christ said 2,000 yrs ago?

More than 1/2 of Christians today think that good deeds will get them to Heaven, an opinion voiced by our own President. How I know that is flawed teaching is by comparing it to what Christ said and was recorded as saying in John 14:6, and in Acts 4:12, and so on.

Christ said, "My sheep know my voice." He's not here for us to listen to on the Mount of Olives. He's not audible right now. He's resting and interceding for us at the right hand of God, while God gather's Christ's enemies to make a foot stool of them for His Son. We recognize Christ's voice in what we read He said and did, and did not do.
The Bible is many things, but never intended as an object of worship. It fall under the category of, "study to show yourself approved." What would you know about Jesus the Christ, and His gift of salvation if it didn't exist?
 
Last edited:
Sarge, sry, but the Bible is clear.
The 144,000 are evangelizing messianic Jews who are sealed from harm during the tribulation period. They can't be killed, just like Cain.
On the other hand we have the souls of the thousands of people, that will be beheaded during the tribulation to come, that John saw in Heaven, wanting justice, prior to Christ's return.
Rev 6:9 ... I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held..
They were given white robes, and the permission to judge while ruling and reigning with Christ back down here for 1,000 years.
Heaven is crowded with souls waiting to return.

THERE ARE ONLY 2 JUDGEMENTS.
The Bema Judgement and the White Throne Judgement. If you are at the Bema Judgement you have already made it to Heaven and are being judged on those good things you did for Christ's sake, God remembers your sins no more, so you can't be judged for your sins. You have none. Being in Heaven proves that.

If you are correct, where is the thief that was on that cross? Still dead and waiting? Enoch? Elijah? Who are all those people in their glorified bodies that accompany Christ when He returns to prevent WW3 from annihilating life on earth? They are all coming back from Heaven to earth.

The other judgement you refer to does not happen for 1,000 years after Christ returns for His millennial reign. Satan is chained for the 1,00 year reign. He is disposed of for good at the White Throne Judgement. And earth will be restored to Eden status.
I think a little research will bear this out. :)
The doctrine that Sarge believes in is found in the Watchtower cult.

As far as I am concerned, all these End Times theories are Baloney and Idolatry. They take people away from Jesus. And I want and need none of them. I suspect Satan is behind all of them and promoting them to distort and deceive believers.
 
Revelation is a theory now? Daniel too?
Like I said, what would you know of Christ if not for the Bible, and which parts of the Bible do you extract and replace with something else?
God actually offers a blessing for those that understand Revelation. The "end time, latter days, end of days, time of sorrow, the reveal of Christ's return, theory" has been well studied and pretty much agreed upon by Bible scholars past and present.

Does Christ return at all in your version? And wouldn't that be your theory if it veers off Scripture? How, why and when do you think He's coming back, if at all?

There is more explained about the end times in the Bible than any other time in history including when Christ walked the earth and was crucified. A lack of understanding about the events we are watching unfold in our generation will lead to being deceived by the anti-Christ.
Where do you feel the Bible truths stop and theory takes over? Israel being born in a day, after 2000 years? Not being able to buy or sell with out the mark? <data mining is necessary for that one. That Russia is going to team up with the Muslims and lead the invasion of Israel? That an Israeli peace treaty will precede the invasion? A global government? Cashless society? Christian persecution in the end times? Jewish persecution in end times? An Israel surrounded by her enemies?

What is it you don't believe? Maybe we can do a little research to verify or refute what the Bible tells us.
 
What happened Marc, find out that the John class didn't tell you everything?

What's your answer to Eccl. 9:5, Ecclesiastes 9:5 KJV - For the living know that they shall - Bible Gateway ??

And Rev. 22:12, Revelation 22:12 KJV - And, behold, I come quickly; and my - Bible Gateway ??

Like I always say, most everything can be sorted out in Genesis.

Let's take a look at what it means to be a living soul, aka living being.

Gen. 2:7 sorts that out for us quite nicely, Genesis 2:7 KJV - And the LORD God formed man of the dust - Bible Gateway

What we have here is a formula, as in 1 + 1 = 2

In this case the formula is dust + God's breath = living soul.

Dust w/o God's breath isn't a soul.
God's breath w/o the dust isn't a soul.
It's the two combined that makes a soul.
Once the two are separated the dusts returns to dust. Hence the term dust to dust.
The breath returns to God, not the soul, as we see in Eccl. 12:7, Ecclesiastes 12:7 KJV - Then shall the dust return to the earth - Bible Gateway. Again, Eccl. 9:5 covers the state of the dead quite directly as seen above.

As I stated before, the confusion on the state of the dead was introduced by the Roman Catholic Church who invented purgatory, another mixture of pagan beliefs. It filtered through the rest of Christian denominations as such, however, it's not Biblically based.
What's your answer to:

43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.

....????
This is expressed in different terms in the various versions of the bible....but they essentially shoot down your argument that people aren't there already.
 
What's your answer to:

43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.

....????
This is expressed in different terms in the various versions of the bible....but they essentially shoot down your argument that people aren't there already.


My answer; Excellent post. Impossible to refute. Case closed.

Whether anyone else believes in the immediate continuation of conscious life after death for the righteous or not, obviously Jesus did.
 
Ephesians 2:8-9 "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast"

The fact that you talk about walking the walk to salvation, and never mention Christ's work on the cross is sufficient to prove you wrong from a Biblical standpoint. One misstep under the Law you seem to prefer, and you lose, Hob. Under Grace/Christ, God is merciful unto our iniquities, and remembers our sin no more.
Choose Life. Choose Christ. (Beats walking around till you get lost.)


To commit sin is to break Gods law: sin, in fact, is lawlessness. Christ appeared, as you know, to do away with sins, and there is no sin in him. No man therefore who dwells in him is a sinner; the sinner has not seen him and does not know him.
My children, do not be misled: it is the man who does right who is righteous, as God is righteous; the man who sins is a child of the devil, for the devil has been a sinner from the first; and the Son of God appeared for the very purpose of undoing the devils work.
A child of God does not commit sin, because the divine seed remains in him; he cannot be a sinner, because he is God's child. That is the distinction between the children of God and the children of the devil: no one who does not do what is right is God's child, nor is anyone who does not love his brother. 1 John 3;4-10



"He who sets aside even the least of the laws demands, and teaches others to do the same, will have the lowest place in the kingdom of Heaven" Matthew 5:19

To understand what Jesus meant by 'the lowest place', see genesis 3:14
 
Sadly, we ALL fall short, and God's children sin all the time. As for the righteous, let's ask Paul:

1 Timothy 1:15
This is a true saying, and by all means worthy to be received, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief.
So, Paul disagrees with you. And so do Adam and Eve, and if they aren't God's children, who are?

Christ dying on the cross would not have been necessary if we could work our way to salvation. He didn't bleed out for the righteous, because there are none. We all fall short. Jesus saved sinners.

Redemption for God's children was the plan before the foundation of the earth was formed. (Eph1:4-5) Before one sin had been committed, or one good work was accomplished.

Heaven is not an exclusive club for the righteous.
It is salvation for all those who accept the gift of propitiation. If you work for it, it isn't a gift, it's your self employed pay, and you will come up woefully shortchanged. You can't pay yourself with enough good works to remove the sin that is in your un-pure blood. Christ's pure sin-free blood transfusion is the only thing that removes sin from the blood.

Here Hob, is what Christ said about the righteous:
Mark 2:17 On hearing this, Jesus said to them, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.
If you belong to Christ, that doesn't mean you won't ever sin again, it means that you won't have to endure the the punishment for your sin. Christ covered that for you. You're never even charged with the crime:
Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus............

As for the Law, Christ fulfilled the Mosaic Law for us, and replaced the 600+ laws with 2:
Mark 12: 30-31
"And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these."

Re read the verse you quoted from Matthew, noting the capital H in Heaven. It has nothing to do with Gen.3.
IF you belong to Christ, but have broken one or at times even both of those two laws, where do you end up? The lowest place where???? In the kingdom of Heaven. Because our works have nothing to do with being redeemed.. Christ's blood is the only cleanser that gets you there.
The lowest place in the kingdom of Heaven is, Heaven with no rewards for doing Christ's work while we are here on earth.

So Hobster, stop trying to work your way into Heaven. It can't be done. The Jews told God they were righteous enough to keep a bunch of laws without needing His grace to forgive them. 3,000 of those "righteous" dropped dead on the spot! We are not even righteous enough to know we're sick.

Do your best, give Christ the rest, and your salvation is secure, because we have a Father that is not willing to let us go. Christ has you covered with pure blood that removes sin. Put your faith in Him. Not your own ability, lest you drop dead.
Hugs. :)
 
Last edited:
As for the Law, Christ fulfilled the Mosaic Law for us, and replaced the 600+ laws with 2:
Mark 12: 30-31
"And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these."

Re read the verse you quoted from Matthew, noting the capital H in Heaven. It has nothing to do with Gen.3.


To fulfill the law is to do it. All of it.

And Jesus did not replace the law of Moses with two laws. You are mistaken. He specifically said they were the two greatest ones, not the two only ones.


And 'the lowest place' mentioned in Mathew 5: 19 is indeed a reference to genesis 3:14 where the serpent is condemned by God as the lowest form of life, more accursed than all cattle and all the wild beasts, specifically for misleading Adam and Eve into setting aside the command of God and doing exactly what God had forbidden under penalty of death which amounts to murder. That's why Jesus said Satan was a murderer from the beginning.



The laws of God have always been and will always remain in effect and in full force for as long as heaven and earth endure.


Your inability to acknowledge or refrain from your sin in the worship of a man as if he was God in the form of some nonexistent triune entity and your continued attempt at murder in teaching others that the law has been set aside or replaced is proof of divine condemnation.


The only way to remove sin which is disobedience to the law is to eliminate error by conforming to the law correctly.

This is how Jesus saves, if you do what he taught.

If you do not accept his teaching about how to correctly understand the figurative language in the law and do it you cannot have the life promised for obedience to the law in you, neither will you ever fulfill the command to eat his flesh and drink his blood no matter how much remembrance is going on when you are eating cheerios.


And even if there were only two laws you are in violation of the both of them. You worship a trinity instead of the one true God and teaching others to believe in lies that lead to hell is hardly very kind or loving to your neighbor.

unless you stop doing that which results in death you will never know what it is to live.

hugs to you too!
 
Last edited:
Here Hob, is what Christ said about the righteous:
Mark 2:17 On hearing this, Jesus said to them, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.


You have the whole damn story all wrong. The Pharisees were complaining about Jesus partying with 'sinners' and upbraiding them all the time as hypocrites and phonies.



His response shows that he thought that those who he was partying with, whom the Pharisees had condemned as sinners, were healthy and not the ones who needed a doctor.

The Pharisees were the sinners who were sick and in need of repentance.
 
Here Hob, is what Christ said about the righteous:
Mark 2:17 On hearing this, Jesus said to them, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.


You have the whole damn story all wrong. The Pharisees were complaining about Jesus partying with 'sinners' and upbraiding them all the time as hypocrites and phonies.



His response shows that he thought that those who he was partying with, whom the Pharisees had condemned as sinners, were healthy and not the ones who needed a doctor.

The Pharisees were the sinners who were sick and in need of repentance.

A Warning Against Hypocrisy

Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples:*2*“The teachers of the law*and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat.*3*So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.*4*They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on other people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.5*“Everything they do is done for people to see:*They make their phylacteries[a]wide and the tassels on their garments*long;*6*they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues;*7*they love to be greeted with respect in the marketplaces and to be called ‘Rabbi’ by others.8*“But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers.*9*And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father,*and he is in heaven.*10*Nor are you to be called instructors, for you have one Instructor, the Messiah.*11*The greatest among you will be your servant.*12*For those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted. Matthew 23 tells us how Jesus felt about those "righteous Pharisees". And I really feel His words are today as much for those who see themselves as "righteous Christians, " as they were for those He was speaking to in Matthew 23. And His words could be for the Mullahs and the Ayatollahs too, as far as that goes. His words address the state of their Hearts and how they see themselves and others and God.
 
Last edited:
Seven Woes on the Teachers of the Law and the Pharisees

13*“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites!*You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.*[14]*15*“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert,*and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell*as you are.16*“Woe to you, blind guides!*You say, ‘If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but anyone who swears by the gold of the temple is bound by that oath.’*17*You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred?*18*You also say, ‘If anyone swears by the altar, it means nothing; but anyone who swears by the gift on the altar is bound by that oath.’*19*You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the altar that makes the gift sacred?*20*Therefore, anyone who swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it.*21*And anyone who swears by the temple swears by it and by the one who dwells*in it.*22*And anyone who swears by heaven swears by God’s throne and by the one who sits on it.23*“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth*of your spices—mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness.*You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.*24*You blind guides!You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.25*“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish,*but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence.*26*Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.27*“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs,*which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean.*28*In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.29*“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets*and decorate the graves of the righteous.*30*And you say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our ancestors, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’*31*So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets.*32*Go ahead, then, and complete*what your ancestors started! Seven woes proclaimed upon the teachers of the law and the Pharisees!
 
Hob,
Matthew definitely wasn't healthy (righteous). He was a lying cheating tax collector for the Romans, with a little on the side for himself, at the time he supped with Jesus.
He hadn't turned from his ways in anticipation of dining with Christ. Christ's mercy was what transformed Matthew. If Matthew was the healthy one, there would have been no change in his condition!

When the Pharisees wanted to know why Christ surrounded Himself with sinners, Jesus responded tongue in cheek. He was saying to them, "because you don't think you need me". (< a condition that is viral in the times we live.)
The Pharisees felt that they were righteous/healthy enough already, so Jesus asked them what need they had for a "doctor" since they didn't consider themselves sick.

Then He told them to go figure out what He meant. Then He addressed the Law, saying that He will insist on mercy being the cure for sin, not sacrifices.
Matthew 9:13 But go and learn what this means: &#8216;I desire mercy, not sacrifice.&#8217;
And that dear Hob, is the new covenant we are under. Christ's mercy unto our iniquities. In other words, life, in spite of our behavior, not death.

The Pharisees weren't made well by the teachings of Christ. They didn't think they needed to be made well, so they weren't.
But Matthew, who knew he wasn't righteous, and did require mercy, was made righteous (well ) because of it. The "doctor" gave him a heart transplant, and it made Matthew want to give back the money he stole, and become the doctor's assistant. Matthew's deadly condition (under the Law) improved dramatically with just one house call from the Great Physician.

Christ loved us WHILE we were sinners. We were sinning while He was dying to protect us from the consequence of those sins. THAT'S the point!

So Hob, have you made yourself righteous enough by following the Law? If not, Jesus has the cure for what ails you. Mercy, forgiveness, compassion, and love.

The doctor is in........
 
Last edited:
I came across more Scriptural evidence in the last two days that supports the doctrine that death is like sleep, not that the soul goes to heaven, or hell at the point of death...

Job 14:10-12 (King James Version)
An Old Testament passage where Job refers to death as a sleep.

Mark 5:39 (King James Version)
Here we see Jesus, the son of God Himself, referring to death as but a sleep.

John 11:43 (King James Version)
Here we have Jesus, in mid miracle, responding to the deceased Lazarus saying "Come FORTH." Note: Lazurus had been dead for over 3 days now, more than enough time to descend to hell, or to have ascended to heaven, so based on the false doctrine the OP points out His words should have been "Come UP" or "Come DOWN." Nay, the Son of God said..."Come FORTH." Additionally, there's no reports, writings or surmising of Lazarus or any of the resurrected by Jesus claiming to have visited heaven or hell no where in history or historical writings. You know, like how we have folks TODAY who claim to have visited heaven or hell after "experiencing death and coming back".

Scripture couldn't be more clear on this matter.

I've come across many other passages since I've last engaged in this thread, but I keep neglecting to respond. Today I made a conscious effort to address it.
 
Last edited:
What happened Marc, find out that the John class didn't tell you everything?

What's your answer to Eccl. 9:5, Ecclesiastes 9:5 KJV - For the living know that they shall - Bible Gateway ??

And Rev. 22:12, Revelation 22:12 KJV - And, behold, I come quickly; and my - Bible Gateway ??

Like I always say, most everything can be sorted out in Genesis.

Let's take a look at what it means to be a living soul, aka living being.

Gen. 2:7 sorts that out for us quite nicely, Genesis 2:7 KJV - And the LORD God formed man of the dust - Bible Gateway

What we have here is a formula, as in 1 + 1 = 2

In this case the formula is dust + God's breath = living soul.

Dust w/o God's breath isn't a soul.
God's breath w/o the dust isn't a soul.
It's the two combined that makes a soul.
Once the two are separated the dusts returns to dust. Hence the term dust to dust.
The breath returns to God, not the soul, as we see in Eccl. 12:7, Ecclesiastes 12:7 KJV - Then shall the dust return to the earth - Bible Gateway. Again, Eccl. 9:5 covers the state of the dead quite directly as seen above.

As I stated before, the confusion on the state of the dead was introduced by the Roman Catholic Church who invented purgatory, another mixture of pagan beliefs. It filtered through the rest of Christian denominations as such, however, it's not Biblically based.
What's your answer to:

43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.

....????
This is expressed in different terms in the various versions of the bible....but they essentially shoot down your argument that people aren't there already.
"I say to you today asartis, you will die."

Get it?

It's a misplaced and/or missing comma, there are more than one legitimate ways to interpret my statement in this response. One means that I'm predicting/asserting/promising/threatening you with your death on this day. The other means that I'm simply saying that you will die one day.

That's the answer to your question.
 
Last edited:
Or hell for that matter.

You guys do realize that don't you?

I'm here watching the service live and it's just one false doctrine after the other.

Christiandom as it's today is in a state of confusion.

The Truth is our invisible heavenly existence as spoken vibrations within the mind of our Creator. The visible world we see as illusions come from processed vibrations that we call energy today.

This means that no one is going to Heaven or Hell We're already in Heaven and all the illusions called flesh will perish during this first age. Then our Heavenly existence will be known by us all once we awaken in our new flesh in Paradise. Our Creator will teach us a new language beginning with His elect, the former prophets and saints from this age called His servant, which is the Holy Spirit.

Christians have never known who we are in the mind of our Creator and this is the reason they're so confused.
 
Or hell for that matter.

You guys do realize that don't you?

I'm here watching the service live and it's just one false doctrine after the other.

Christiandom as it's today is in a state of confusion.

The Truth is our invisible heavenly existence as spoken vibrations within the mind of our Creator. The visible world we see as illusions come from processed vibrations that we call energy today.

This means that no one is going to Heaven or Hell We're already in Heaven and all the illusions called flesh will perish during this first age. Then our Heavenly existence will be known by us all once we awaken in our new flesh in Paradise. Our Creator will teach us a new language beginning with His elect, the former prophets and saints from this age called His servant, which is the Holy Spirit.

Christians have never known who we are in the mind of our Creator and this is the reason they're so confused.

I've been away for a while so I forgot why I have you on ignore.

Thanks for posting this to remind me.

But, since I have you here, could you provide any scriptural or any other source to support your claims?
 
What's your answer to:

43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.

....????
This is expressed in different terms in the various versions of the bible....but they essentially shoot down your argument that people aren't there already.

Easy. Paradise isn't heaven or hell.

How do I know this? Because three days later when the Lord has risen from the dead He told Mary not to touch Him since He still had not ascended to heaven to see His Father. So if Christ was to meet the theif in paradise. It was somewhere else.

Paradise is the place the righteous dead dwell as they await the resurrection. It's also been called Abraham's Bosom in the Gospel of Luke.

The counter part is Prison, where the wicked dwell that Peter mentioned in his Epistle teaching that Christ visited the Spirit's in prison and declared their liberty between His death and resurrection.
 
What's your answer to:

43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.

....????
This is expressed in different terms in the various versions of the bible....but they essentially shoot down your argument that people aren't there already.

Easy. Paradise isn't heaven or hell.

How do I know this? Because three days later when the Lord has risen from the dead He told Mary not to touch Him since He still had not ascended to heaven to see His Father. So if Christ was to meet the theif in paradise. It was somewhere else.

Paradise is the place the righteous dead dwell as they await the resurrection. It's also been called Abraham's Bosom in the Gospel of Luke.

The counter part is Prison, where the wicked dwell that Peter mentioned in his Epistle teaching that Christ visited the Spirit's in prison and declared their liberty between His death and resurrection.
Sounds like you're preaching a purgatory doctrine here. If so, then that's another false doctrine not backed up by Scripture.
 

Forum List

Back
Top