Israeli Style Democracy

[Challenger]

Haneen Zoabi, also Hanin Zoubi, (Arabic: حنين زعبي‎, Hebrew: חנין זועבי; born 23 May 1969) is a Palestinian Arab, an Israeli citizen,[1] and the first Arab woman to be elected to Israel's Knesset on an Arab party's list.[2] Representing the Balad party, Zoabi was victorious in the 2009 and 2013 legislative elections.[

Haneen Zoabi - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

So even though she is part of the government, you still find something to complain about Pbel.

There are no words to describe just how pathetic and deluded some of you pro Palestinians. Just, wow..........

She's not part of the "government" in that she can never "govern", that's the truth of it.

 

[Kondor3]

She is not a traitor to her people, who make up what percentage of her/your country?

Excuse me? 'Her people'? what makes her loyal to 'her people' is what makes her traitor to 'us'

"Us", "Her People"? "There's something rotten in the state of Israel", methinks. What happened to:

"The State of Israel will be open for Jewish immigration and for the Ingathering of the Exiles; it will foster the development of the country for the benefit of all its inhabitants; it will be based on freedom, justice and peace as envisaged by the prophets of Israel; it will ensure complete equality of social and political rights to all its inhabitants irrespective of religion, race or sex; it will guarantee freedom of religion, conscience, language, education and culture; it will safeguard the Holy Places of all religions; and it will be faithful to the principles of the Charter of the United Nations. "

By my count that's 0 out of 4 founding principles. Another failed state.

Well, Challenger, if the United States of American was permanently 'ding-ed' for every time that it failed to live up to its own Founding Principles, we, too, would have been labeled a Failed State, decades or even centuries ago. Sorry, but that just isn't going to wash.

Nations tend to maintain their principles as best they can while ensuring their survival.

Dog bites man.

 

[Challenger]

Israel disqualifies contentious Arab candidate from election

A glimpse of the Chauvinistic Society based on genealogy in its Politics rather than a meritorious based Democracy like America's...


Israel disqualifies contentious Arab candidate from election - Yahoo News
JERUSALEM (AP) — Israel's elections committee on Thursday voted to disqualify a contentious Arab lawmaker from running in the country's March 17 parliamentary elections.

Lawmaker Hanin Zoabi is known for her feisty and abrasive style in parliament. She has sided with the Palestinians in their conflict with Israel, prompting some Israelis to brand her a traitor.

Israeli media say Thursday's committee vote passed by a majority. The decision could still be overturned by the Supreme Court, which has happened in the past.

Zoabi said she wasn't surprised by the vote which she called "unjust" and "racist" and said she plans to appeal the decision.

I just had to wait for the first one to come up with this.

Please tell me why should there be a candidate in the Israeli government that is a traitor to the state? I'm in for a truly mature discussion.

If you're able.

Has she been charged, tried and convicted of treason? If not, she should be allowed to stand and hold office.

If he-she-it manifests hostility to the founding ideals an purpose of The State, then The State is under no particular obligation to empower those seeking to overthrow it; the absence of the formality of a conviction for treason notwithstanding.

A mother is under no obligation to allow a rattlesnake to crawl into the crib of her infant, simply because it hasn't struck yet.

Here, in this country, we are large enough and strong enough and geographically isolated enough so that we would probably allow it in a bemused fashion.

But that's us... not other folks... and, for them, an alternative method of handling the situation seems to make more sense... their choice... I don't blame 'em.

Perhaps any "hostility" she feels is as a result of the state ignoring or abrogating it's founding principles? Shouldn't any responsible, principled polititian protest or highlight state abuses in such circumstances?
No democracy, worth the name, denies those who may advocate it's downfall a voice if they are legitimately elected. The UK did not deny Sinn Fein their seats in Parliament, for example.

 

[Challenger]

Haneen Zoabi, also Hanin Zoubi, (Arabic: حنين زعبي‎, Hebrew: חנין זועבי; born 23 May 1969) is a Palestinian Arab, an Israeli citizen,[1] and the first Arab woman to be elected to Israel's Knesset on an Arab party's list.[2] Representing the Balad party, Zoabi was victorious in the 2009 and 2013 legislative elections.[

Haneen Zoabi - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

So even though she is part of the government, you still find something to complain about Pbel.

There are no words to describe just how pathetic and deluded some of you pro Palestinians. Just, wow..........

I'm not complaining, but you can't pick and choose who serves in a Democracy by expulsion unless they commit a crime...Israel claims to be a Jewish State while she has millions of Israeli Muslims...How do you ask loyalty based on religion? Do you support a Theocracy?

I don't support theocracy but Israel is far from being one. Iran and Saudi Arabia both have religious courts. Those are theocracies.

Theocracy is a form of government in which clergy have official recognition as the ruler and official policy is either governed by officials regarded as divinely guided, or is pursuant to the doctrine of a particular religion or religious group

Theocracy - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Israel does not fit into that description....

Yes it does, "or is pursuant to the doctrine of a particular religion or religious group"

 

[Challenger]

She is not a traitor to her people, who make up what percentage of her/your country?

Excuse me? 'Her people'? what makes her loyal to 'her people' is what makes her traitor to 'us'

"Us", "Her People"? "There's something rotten in the state of Israel", methinks. What happened to:

"The State of Israel will be open for Jewish immigration and for the Ingathering of the Exiles; it will foster the development of the country for the benefit of all its inhabitants; it will be based on freedom, justice and peace as envisaged by the prophets of Israel; it will ensure complete equality of social and political rights to all its inhabitants irrespective of religion, race or sex; it will guarantee freedom of religion, conscience, language, education and culture; it will safeguard the Holy Places of all religions; and it will be faithful to the principles of the Charter of the United Nations. "

By my count that's 0 out of 4 founding principles. Another failed state.

Well, Challenger, if the United States of American was permanently 'ding-ed' for every time that it failed to live up to its own Founding Principles, we, too, would have been labeled a Failed State, decades or even centuries ago. Sorry, but that just isn't going to wash.

Nations tend to maintain their principles as best they can while ensuring their survival.

Dog bites man.

There are Americans who would argue America is a failed state for precisly those reasons.

 

[Challenger]

I have no problem with you. You make it clear that Israel is not a democracy and that it is a theocracy.

I am not the Defining Authority in such matters... merely another observer, with a modicum of Realism.

Israel is, indeed, a democracy, for a particular religious demographic, and those other demographics that pose no existential threat to it.

Yes, a Herrenvolk democracy. Herrenvolk democracy - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 

[Kondor3]

...No democracy, worth the name, denies those who may advocate it's downfall a voice if they are legitimately elected. The UK did not deny Sinn Fein their seats in Parliament, for example.

The UK is not surrounded by sworn mortal enemy populations within easy driving distance of its interior.

The US is not surrounded by sworn mortal enemy populations within easy driving distance of its interior.

Your example of Sinn Fein is largely irrelevant given that it posed no existential danger to People and Crown.

Very few pro-Israel types are applauding such suppression, in this instance.

Merely saying that it is understandable, given the rattlesnake-in-the-crib metaphor; they are obliged to serve-up an occasional limitation that we find objectionable.

Shit happens... that's the way they have to roll, in their part of the world.

 

[Kondor3]

She is not a traitor to her people, who make up what percentage of her/your country?

Excuse me? 'Her people'? what makes her loyal to 'her people' is what makes her traitor to 'us'

"Us", "Her People"? "There's something rotten in the state of Israel", methinks. What happened to:

"The State of Israel will be open for Jewish immigration and for the Ingathering of the Exiles; it will foster the development of the country for the benefit of all its inhabitants; it will be based on freedom, justice and peace as envisaged by the prophets of Israel; it will ensure complete equality of social and political rights to all its inhabitants irrespective of religion, race or sex; it will guarantee freedom of religion, conscience, language, education and culture; it will safeguard the Holy Places of all religions; and it will be faithful to the principles of the Charter of the United Nations. "

By my count that's 0 out of 4 founding principles. Another failed state.

Well, Challenger, if the United States of American was permanently 'ding-ed' for every time that it failed to live up to its own Founding Principles, we, too, would have been labeled a Failed State, decades or even centuries ago. Sorry, but that just isn't going to wash.

Nations tend to maintain their principles as best they can while ensuring their survival.

Dog bites man.

There are Americans who would argue America is a failed state for precisly those reasons.

Yes, indeed there are. The same can be said of the UK, or France, or Germany, etc., etc., etc. None of us live-up to our principles in toto; we merely do the best job we can, while staying alive and remaining on our feet.

As I said... dog bites man... not exactly news.

 

[Challenger]

Par for the course in the Middle East. It is not surprising.

So the west allows everyone to start a political party and stand for election, or do they have strict rules governing just who can stand. A good example would be the Golden Dawn party of Greece that had its members arrested.


So it is par for the course in all civilised nations, of course islam being uncivilised just murders its political opponents to solve the problem. So would you prefer Israel acted as hamas and fatah do and just shoot the members of the opposition ?

Assassination of Yitzhak Rabin - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 

[Challenger]

"Chauvinistic Society"?? Wow, you're cluless. Israel is the only state in the MidEast which has strict rules of women in the Knesset, and the elected party is often judged by how many seats are filled by women.

I can also throw idiotic slogans in the air. It won't make me smarter.

Clearly doesn't know the definition of Chauvinism. LOL

For a definition of chauvinism just look at Islamic society and that is typical chauvinism. Which is why France passed a law last year to combat part of chauvanism

Muslim societies are irrelevant to the topic, Israel is supposed to be "better than that".

 

[Daniyel]

She is not a traitor to her people, who make up what percentage of her/your country?

Excuse me? 'Her people'? what makes her loyal to 'her people' is what makes her traitor to 'us'

"Us", "Her People"? "There's something rotten in the state of Israel", methinks. What happened to:

"The State of Israel will be open for Jewish immigration and for the Ingathering of the Exiles; it will foster the development of the country for the benefit of all its inhabitants; it will be based on freedom, justice and peace as envisaged by the prophets of Israel; it will ensure complete equality of social and political rights to all its inhabitants irrespective of religion, race or sex; it will guarantee freedom of religion, conscience, language, education and culture; it will safeguard the Holy Places of all religions; and it will be faithful to the principles of the Charter of the United Nations. "

By my count that's 0 out of 4 founding principles. Another failed state.

Which is why everyone wants to be here, besides that Gaza is 'her' people, the Hamas terrorists - which are not part of Israel, 4/4.

 

[Challenger]

So what do you call islam that endows all adherrents as gods chosen to rule the world and to be overlords of all animals and women ?

I call it, "more baloney from Phoney"

 

[Challenger]

She is not a traitor to her people, who make up what percentage of her/your country?

Excuse me? 'Her people'? what makes her loyal to 'her people' is what makes her traitor to 'us'

"Us", "Her People"? "There's something rotten in the state of Israel", methinks. What happened to:

"The State of Israel will be open for Jewish immigration and for the Ingathering of the Exiles; it will foster the development of the country for the benefit of all its inhabitants; it will be based on freedom, justice and peace as envisaged by the prophets of Israel; it will ensure complete equality of social and political rights to all its inhabitants irrespective of religion, race or sex; it will guarantee freedom of religion, conscience, language, education and culture; it will safeguard the Holy Places of all religions; and it will be faithful to the principles of the Charter of the United Nations. "

By my count that's 0 out of 4 founding principles. Another failed state.

Which is why everyone wants to be here, besides that Gaza is 'her' people, the Hamas terrorists - which are not part of Israel, 4/4.

60% of Jewish people worldwide seem to disagree with you. 0/4

 

[Kondor3]

I have no problem with you. You make it clear that Israel is not a democracy and that it is a theocracy.

I am not the Defining Authority in such matters... merely another observer, with a modicum of Realism.

Israel is, indeed, a democracy, for a particular religious demographic, and those other demographics that pose no existential threat to it.

Yes, a Herrenvolk democracy. Herrenvolk democracy - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Indeed.

A democracy in which one ethnic (or religious group) dominates, and in which the deck is stacked, to ensure that that group continues to dominate.

Israel was established as a National Home for the Jews.

Israel remains a National Home for the Jews.

It stacks the deck (establishes and maintains conditions) to ensure that this remains the case.

In this, it is no different than most of the Muslim-dominated nations of the region, which provided for superior privileges and treatment for Muslims, versus Unbelievers.

And Israel, like some of the more enlightened or advance Muslim countries of the region, does what it can to ensure the general happiness and prosperity of all its citizens, while keeping an eye on conditions, to ensure that its dominating religion and culture and population continue to have the upper hand.

Imperfect democracy, quite honestly, but recognizable as democracy, nevertheless.

One does what one can, with the situation at-hand.

Dog bites man.

No big deal.

 

[Daniyel]

"Chauvinistic Society"?? Wow, you're cluless. Israel is the only state in the MidEast which has strict rules of women in the Knesset, and the elected party is often judged by how many seats are filled by women.

I can also throw idiotic slogans in the air. It won't make me smarter.

Clearly doesn't know the definition of Chauvinism. LOL

For a definition of chauvinism just look at Islamic society and that is typical chauvinism. Which is why France passed a law last year to combat part of chauvanism

Muslim societies are irrelevant to the topic, Israel is supposed to be "better than that".

Israel is to be compared to any other state in the ME, since Israel is located in the ME and featured by ME ethnicity.

 

[Challenger]

"Chauvinistic Society"?? Wow, you're cluless. Israel is the only state in the MidEast which has strict rules of women in the Knesset, and the elected party is often judged by how many seats are filled by women.

I can also throw idiotic slogans in the air. It won't make me smarter.

Have no worries about you getting smarter Lip, that is an impossibility...

In America we allow dissent as long as it is peaceful, stifling lawmakers is fascism, not Democracy...

And when that dissent becomes incitement to violence and murder what then ?

Ooh, let me think about that. You charge them, take them to court and provide enough evidence for a conviction. That's what happens in civilised countries.

 

[Daniyel]

She is not a traitor to her people, who make up what percentage of her/your country?

Excuse me? 'Her people'? what makes her loyal to 'her people' is what makes her traitor to 'us'

"Us", "Her People"? "There's something rotten in the state of Israel", methinks. What happened to:

"The State of Israel will be open for Jewish immigration and for the Ingathering of the Exiles; it will foster the development of the country for the benefit of all its inhabitants; it will be based on freedom, justice and peace as envisaged by the prophets of Israel; it will ensure complete equality of social and political rights to all its inhabitants irrespective of religion, race or sex; it will guarantee freedom of religion, conscience, language, education and culture; it will safeguard the Holy Places of all religions; and it will be faithful to the principles of the Charter of the United Nations. "

By my count that's 0 out of 4 founding principles. Another failed state.

Which is why everyone wants to be here, besides that Gaza is 'her' people, the Hamas terrorists - which are not part of Israel, 4/4.

60% of Jewish people worldwide seem to disagree with you. 0/4

Which is why more and more people are immigrating to Israel every year, including illegal aliens - 4/4

 

[Daniyel]

She is not a traitor to her people, who make up what percentage of her/your country?

Excuse me? 'Her people'? what makes her loyal to 'her people' is what makes her traitor to 'us'

"Us", "Her People"? "There's something rotten in the state of Israel", methinks. What happened to:

"The State of Israel will be open for Jewish immigration and for the Ingathering of the Exiles; it will foster the development of the country for the benefit of all its inhabitants; it will be based on freedom, justice and peace as envisaged by the prophets of Israel; it will ensure complete equality of social and political rights to all its inhabitants irrespective of religion, race or sex; it will guarantee freedom of religion, conscience, language, education and culture; it will safeguard the Holy Places of all religions; and it will be faithful to the principles of the Charter of the United Nations. "

By my count that's 0 out of 4 founding principles. Another failed state.

Which is why everyone wants to be here, besides that Gaza is 'her' people, the Hamas terrorists - which are not part of Israel, 4/4.

60% of Jewish people worldwide seem to disagree with you. 0/4

Besides of course that it a lie, 95% of the Jews worldwide supports Israel.. if you want the Jewish opinion so bad.

 

[Kondor3]

...Israel is supposed to be "better than that".

Why? Who says?

 

[Challenger]

...No democracy, worth the name, denies those who may advocate it's downfall a voice if they are legitimately elected. The UK did not deny Sinn Fein their seats in Parliament, for example.

The UK is not surrounded by sworn mortal enemy populations within easy driving distance of its interior.

The US is not surrounded by sworn mortal enemy populations within easy driving distance of its interior.

Your example of Sinn Fein is largely irrelevant given that it posed no existential danger to People and Crown.

Very few pro-Israel types are applauding such suppression, in this instance.

Merely saying that it is understandable, given the rattlesnake-in-the-crib metaphor; they are obliged to serve-up an occasional limitation that we find objectionable.

Shit happens... that's the way they have to roll, in their part of the world.

Neither is Israel, at peace with Jordan and Egypt; Syria is falling apart and Lebanon is likely to follow suit anytime soon. That's why Israel has arguably the 4th most powerfull armed forces on the planet to suggest any of it's neigbouring populations, hostile or not, pose an existential threat to the country is quite laughable, much less one woman. The strength of a democracy is measured on the level of internal opposition it allows.