Israel violates international law

[Toddsterpatriot]

What nation's land was occupied?

There is no rule in the 4th Geneva Convention that Occupied Land can only be land that was formally belonging to another state by legal annexation or older form of confiscation.

So it didn't belong to anyone.
No state to give it back to, I think they should keep it.

 

[pbel]

What nation's land was occupied?

There is no rule in the 4th Geneva Convention that Occupied Land can only be land that was formally belonging to another state by legal annexation or older form of confiscation.

So it didn't belong to anyone.
No state to give it back to, I think they should keep it.

Just what do you mean? Do you think it was unclaimed land that had no deeds of ownership, or is it the right wing serenade of there was no Palestine or a Palestinian People?

Your double talk will never fly in the face of justice...

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

There is no rule in the 4th Geneva Convention that Occupied Land can only be land that was formally belonging to another state by legal annexation or older form of confiscation.

So it didn't belong to anyone.
No state to give it back to, I think they should keep it.

Just what do you mean? Do you think it was unclaimed land that had no deeds of ownership, or is it the right wing serenade of there was no Palestine or a Palestinian People?

Your double talk will never fly in the face of justice...

Do you think it was unclaimed land that had no deeds of ownership

For the most part, yes.

there was no Palestine or a Palestinian People?

Correct, twice.

 

[pbel]

So it didn't belong to anyone.
No state to give it back to, I think they should keep it.

Just what do you mean? Do you think it was unclaimed land that had no deeds of ownership, or is it the right wing serenade of there was no Palestine or a Palestinian People?

Your double talk will never fly in the face of justice...

Do you think it was unclaimed land that had no deeds of ownership

For the most part, yes.

there was no Palestine or a Palestinian People?

Correct, twice.

Well then produce the links that support your view and there won't be a need for the present peace discussions.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Just what do you mean? Do you think it was unclaimed land that had no deeds of ownership, or is it the right wing serenade of there was no Palestine or a Palestinian People?

Your double talk will never fly in the face of justice...

Do you think it was unclaimed land that had no deeds of ownership

For the most part, yes.

there was no Palestine or a Palestinian People?

Correct, twice.

Well then produce the links that support your view and there won't be a need for the present peace discussions.

You need a link to know there was no Palestine or a Palestinian People?

 

[RoccoR]

Toddsterpatriot, Victory67, et al,

There is a lot of confusion in this discussion.

First, in order to answer some of the questions, you have to be specific about:

• What period of time we are discussion?
• What land or territory we are specifically addressing?

What nation's land was occupied?

There is no rule in the 4th Geneva Convention that Occupied Land can only be land that was formally belonging to another state by legal annexation or older form of confiscation.

So it didn't belong to anyone.
No state to give it back to, I think they should keep it.

(COMMENT)

Secondly, there is also a difference between confiscation (real-estate land ownership as a civil matter), and annexation (having nothing to do with civil land ownership, but alters sovereignty).

I notice that in a number of Arab-Israeli discussions, this two concepts (land ownership and sovereignty) are often confused or thought to be one and the same thing. They are not. Sovereignty does not alter land ownership.

For instance, the entire West Bank, while under occupation, is sovereign Palestinian territory. And while there are Israeli Settlements inside the West Bank, the land ownership has not changed unless the original Palestinian Owners have been duly compensated, or the land in question changed hands according to local real property laws.

• Private property cannot be confiscated without just cause and proper compensation.
• Destruction of real or personal property is prohibited, except where such destruction is rendered absolutely necessary by military operations.

Now clearly, the Israeli Settlement Programs in the West Bank must be address as a matter of restitution and reparation in any formal Peace Negotiation. I think nearly everyone knows this.

Currently, such legal settlements and compensation are being held hostage to a good faith outcome of such negotiation.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Victory67]

So it didn't belong to anyone.
No state to give it back to, I think they should keep it.

much of the West Bank was and is privately owned by Palestinians.

 

[Victory67]

Just what do you mean? Do you think it was unclaimed land that had no deeds of ownership, or is it the right wing serenade of there was no Palestine or a Palestinian People?

Your double talk will never fly in the face of justice...

Thanks to the hard work by Peace Now using information provided to them by the Israeli govt., the world now knows to what extent Israel has stolen private property in the West Bank to build their settlements.

Around 33% of all land that the settlements are built on, was stolen from Palestinian private land owners.

 

[Billo_Really]

I have told you many times that if it is a defensive war where land is gained then it is legal.

It's not a defensive war, if you're the one who fired the first shot.

Since Israel fired the first shot, you need to drop this "defensive war" BS.

As far as your claim "to the victor, goes the spoils", you've never produced anything regarding IHL, to prove that was true.

 

[Phoenall]

Totally irrelevent to this discussion. Israel's disregard of international laws that they have commited to abide by is the issue.

Not one of the above is an actual International law is it. in fact Israel was not around for 4 of them

the 4th Geneva Conventions is an international law, and Israel has sworn to abide by and follow it.

Many Zionists argue that Israel has a right to settle Jews in all of the West Bank, due to the rights afforded to the Jewish people in the Balfour Declaration, the San Remo Conference, and the Mandate for Palestine. I'm glad to hear you state that these laws are now null and void, and the rights guaranteed to the Jews in these laws are now null & void.

That means that the only laws Israel must still abide by are the 4th GC and the UN Charter, and they both forbid the confiscation of private property in Occupied Territory for civilian housing.

And the right of return that grants them the right to return to their ancestral homes stolen by the muslim hordes in 1948. Or do you think that the Jews should not be afforded this INTERNATIONAL LAW and should be evicted from the land they hold title to. So do show were the land they occupy is not theirs with full title.

 

[Shaarona]

Not one of the above is an actual International law is it. in fact Israel was not around for 4 of them

the 4th Geneva Conventions is an international law, and Israel has sworn to abide by and follow it.

Many Zionists argue that Israel has a right to settle Jews in all of the West Bank, due to the rights afforded to the Jewish people in the Balfour Declaration, the San Remo Conference, and the Mandate for Palestine. I'm glad to hear you state that these laws are now null and void, and the rights guaranteed to the Jews in these laws are now null & void.

That means that the only laws Israel must still abide by are the 4th GC and the UN Charter, and they both forbid the confiscation of private property in Occupied Territory for civilian housing.

And the right of return that grants them the right to return to their ancestral homes stolen by the muslim hordes in 1948. Or do you think that the Jews should not be afforded this INTERNATIONAL LAW and should be evicted from the land they hold title to. So do show were the land they occupy is not theirs with full title.

The Jews held title to 6% of the land in 1948.

 

[Phoenall]

Occupied Territory? Who was occupied?

The land that Bibi Netanyahu called "occupied".

Binyamin Netanyahu: occupation is not cause of conflict | World news | theguardian.com

"Then came the partition plan in 1947, with the suggestion of an Arab state alongside a Jewish state. The Jews agreed, the Arabs refused. Because the issue was not then the question of a Palestinian state – the issue was and remains the Jewish state. Then 19 years later came the stranglehold around us aimed at uprooting us. And why? After all, then there was no occupation."

Have you bothered to check on the details of the peace deals made by Israel with Egypt and Jordan, and look at what they told Israel in regards to the land they had annexed in 1948 and lost in 1967. Then come back and tell the world who owns the land ?

 

[Phoenall]

What nation's land was occupied?

Jordan was the legal Occupying Power of the West Bank from 1949 to 1967.

When Israel conquered the West Bank, they became the legal Occupying Power and are now bound by the 4th Geneva Convention's regulations upon Occupying Powers as they are a signatory to the 4th GC.

We know for a fact that Israel recognizes and acknowledges itself as the legal Occupying Power of the West Bank, because from 1967 to 1979 Israel took control of West Bank land that was privately owned, by confiscating it for temporary military purposes, which 100% follows the legal stipulations listed in the 4th GC as how and when an Occupying Power can legally confiscate private property.

The only problem is that Israel then used the land for permanent civilian settlement, which counters the clear language in the 4th GC. The Israeli Supreme Court knew this, and therefore declared the practice to be illegal in 1979 when an Israeli settlement told the court that counter to the military's claim that the land was being used temporarily, the land was intended for a permanent civilian settlement. Since then Israel has instead used the practice of confiscating private land and converting it into "State Land", and using that for settlements and settlement infrastructure.

The problem with this strategy is that according to the 4th GC, which Israel signed, State land in Occupied Territories can only be used by the Occupying Power for the common good of all residents of the Occupied Territory. Clearly, Israeli settlements and Israeli roads doesn't do much for the Palestinians.

Wrong the land was annexed and sanctioned by the UN making it Jordanian. It was the original plan to give Jordan the land anyway and have Israel bordered by Jordan. The whole of the area became a huge headache for Jordan and when Israel occupied it in 1967 they were very thankful for the loss. When Israel made the peace deal with Jordan it offered the land back as per UN res 242, the Jordanians told Israel to keep the land and sort it out. So the land ownership passed from Jordan to Israel as a result.

 

[Phoenall]

Thanks for the info. Can you answer my question now?
What nation's land was occupied?

The West Bank is presently Occupied by Israel.

Israel is the Occupying Power of the West Bank.

The West Bank used to be Occupied by Jordan.

Try again and this time look at the facts. Jordan annexed the land making it part of Jordan in 1948. Israel occupied the land in 1967 until 1994 when Jordan gave it to Israel. Try looking at the history books and not the Islamic hate sites.

 

[Phoenall]

The West Bank is presently Occupied by Israel.

Israel is the Occupying Power of the West Bank.

The West Bank used to be Occupied by Jordan.

What nation's land was occupied?

Let's see, it is called occupied Palestinian territory.

Damn Toddster, I can see why you are so confused.

That is a tough question.

But as you have already accepted Palestine was not a LEGAL nation until 1988, so who's land is occupied by Israel ?

 

[Phoenall]

What nation's land was occupied?

There is no rule in the 4th Geneva Convention that Occupied Land can only be land that was formally belonging to another state by legal annexation or older form of confiscation.

So does this mean that America is in violation of the 4th Geneva convention by occupying American land ? Because that is what you have just stated above.

The land has to have a nations ownership before it can be occupied, or it is land open to settlement as ownerless.

 

[Shaarona]

What nation's land was occupied?

There is no rule in the 4th Geneva Convention that Occupied Land can only be land that was formally belonging to another state by legal annexation or older form of confiscation.

So does this mean that America is in violation of the 4th Geneva convention by occupying American land ? Because that is what you have just stated above.

The land has to have a nations ownership before it can be occupied, or it is land open to settlement as ownerless.

There was no international law at that time.

 

[Phoenall]

What nation's land was occupied?

There is no rule in the 4th Geneva Convention that Occupied Land can only be land that was formally belonging to another state by legal annexation or older form of confiscation.

Indeed, If you can only occupy "a state" then what state was Jordan occupying?

It didn't as it annexed the land with the full support of the UN, so the land became part of Jordan. You should be fully aware of this as you have posted enough links surrounding this aspect on other topics. Israel occupied it from 1967 till 1994 when Jordan gifted Israel with the land. So now were is your nation of Palestine ?

 

[Billo_Really]

And the right of return that grants them the right to return to their ancestral homes stolen by the muslim hordes in 1948. Or do you think that the Jews should not be afforded this INTERNATIONAL LAW and should be evicted from the land they hold title to. So do show were the land they occupy is not theirs with full title.

You don't "occupy" land you own. You own it!

You "occupy" land that isn't yours. And that land, isn't Israel's.

It never was Israel's and will never be, Israel's.

It was not given to Israel, nor will the world community stand by and let Israel keep that land. The only thing you can do with an "occupation", is end it. That is the only option on Israel's table. They can do it voluntarily on their own, or eventually be forced to. Either way, they will have their Eisenhower moment.

 

[Phoenall]

Jordan was occupying the West Bank.

Yes. And now Israel is the legal Occupier.

Read the history books and the peace deal with Jordan and then come back with the right answer