Zone1 Is the middle class being destroyed in the US?

[initforme]

Do you think thats excessive?

 

[ding]

Government employees start off lower than those in the private sector but have the potential to earn 6 figure salaries coupled with a generous taxpayer funded pension. The private sector rarely offers pensions anymore but employer sponsored healthcare plans are superior and less costly than Obamacare plans.

You are discussing this with someone who worked for the government for years and probably has a government pension and healthcare.

I worked for the government for years

I doubt he can be objective about this.

 

[alang1216]

That's dumb. I had a cost associated with my 9/80 and my vacation. It would have taken a sizable increase to get me to give that up.

I don't share your worldview so I'm a dumb, unintelligent, idiot. Your insults are getting rather tedious.

 

[Bitterhook]

^^^ This is why painters get away with charging this guy $85 an hour. He thinks people pulling down $100,000 a year are poor.

The Household Poverty Rate for a family of 4 in 1960 was $3,022, while the same rate in 2024 was $32,130, not including all the other qualifiers and factors that only increase the figures.

I picked the dates only to indicate the inflation and not directly associated with a party, because while some political measures may slow inflation, it never reverses and always increases as well as at an accelerated rate, as its existence combined with time and demand influences it.

Meaning, that whatever your parents did to stay afloat, at a reduced inflation rate, that could maintain the status quo, will not be enough to stay ahead of the curve as inflation not only gains but accelerates.

Thus, meaning that to simply survive, requires capitalizing on early lifetime efforts to overcome immediate obstacles, providing a foundation for better standing in life as one's family grows, and during retirement when that person will be losing ground to inflation outside of investments that keep growing.

In a nutshell, if people think they are going to be able to accomplish what they expect they are entitled to, by simply trending water or approaching everything as their parents did, it is time they realize they are on a fast track to the bottom of the sea, and it is apparent whether or not they want to admit it.

There is nothing the government can do to save them, and they are going to have to make some drastic changes.
That's also why for the longest time, parents always wanted to leave their prodigy "better off" than they ever were.

 

[Dekster]

I see a number of threads here saying the middle class being destroyed or the middle class being worse today than in the past.

But was it not easer to get a job before than today? Also jobs paid better before than today and jobs were more secure than today.

A number of people in other threads here say the middle class is being destroyed now.

I think you are muddling too many scenarios into now or then as if there is only one answer. By and large I would say that most employers are more interested in their next hire than a current employee so people need to be ready to find greener pastures if they intend to move to a rung. Second I would say it is easier than ever to start a business so that option is always a plus. I think if you want a punch in punch out career things are probably getting tougher.

 

[ding]

I don't share your worldview so I'm a dumb, unintelligent, idiot. Your insults are getting rather tedious.

No, just because you said something stupid does not make you unintelligent or an idiot. It makes you ignorant and biased. Your ignorance was in not knowing that benefits can be a significant part of compensation. Your bias was in believing you couldn't be wrong about what you believed. It's probably because you have never considered the impact a 9/80 schedule has on days off - which is 26 Fridays per year - or having six weeks of vacation. You were probably only thinking of health, dental and vision insurance. Of course even that should considered before changing jobs. Everything goes into the calculus of changing employers.

The only question now is whether or not you will be stubborn about it. You chose a bad hill to die on.

 

[ding]

I don't share your worldview...

Yes, we don't share the same worldviews on many things. That doesn't mean there aren't many things where we do share the same worldview. I imagine I could name quite a few things we would agree upon. I do not see you as an enemy.

 

[ding]

Your insults are getting rather tedious.

If I ever said you were dumb or stupid or an idiot, I apologize. I try not to say things like that. If I ever said that something you said or believed was dumb or idiotic or stupid, then that's on you for taking it personal. So maybe go back and reread what I have written in the past. If you find the former, I'll be more than happy to humbly and sincerely apologize and truly mean it. In the future I will try to make it more clear to you what I find dumb, stupid and idiotic.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

If thats the going rate then one pays it. $50 isnt middle class anymore.

I'll bet you have either brown eyes or live in New York City. That's about the only place where that kind of money says you are not full of shit! I never made $50 an hour anytime in my life and I had all the things your typical middle-class family had.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Do you think thats excessive?

Extremely! It only exists in your world Methusaleh.

 

[Lisa558]

If thats the going rate then one pays it. $50 isnt middle class anymore.

Except the going rate for McDonalds workers is NOT $50 an hour.

And news flash: $100,000 is upper-middle class, you SNOB. My retirement income is less than that - and I go on international vacations, have dinners at nice restaurants, see shows at the Kennedy Center.

 

[initforme]

Except the going rate for McDonalds workers is NOT $50 an hour.

And news flash: $100,000 is upper-middle class, you SNOB. My retirement income is less than that - and I go on international vacations, have dinners at nice restaurants, see shows at the Kennedy Center.

I never said it was. But imagine there are people who actually are ignorant enough to complain that a mcdonalds worker gets paid $18, or even $20 per hour. Who would actually hold that view? Who really cares? Does it matter? Not in the least. It does not matter. 100 grand today is not upper middle class anywhere here in america. The kennedy center is closing up shop no? Thats a good thing.

 

[Lisa558]

I never said it was. But imagine there are people who actually are ignorant enough to complain that a mcdonalds worker gets paid $18, or even $20 per hour.

Imagine that there are people who complain that McDonald’s prices have gone so high that the working class can’t afford it anymore.

Who would actually hold that view? Who really cares? Does it matter? Not in the least. It does not matter. 100 grand today is not upper middle class anywhere here in america. The kennedy center is closing up shop no? Thats a good thing.

Of course it matters when you are arguing that $50 an hour isn’t middle class.

And I just told you that my retirement income is less than $100,000 - and that it provides me an upper-middle class life. You’re an out of touch snobby Democrat.

 

[initforme]

Imagine that there are people who complain that McDonald’s prices have gone so high that the working class can’t afford it anymore.

Of course it matters when you are arguing that $50 an hour isn’t middle class.

And I just told you that my retirement income is less than $100,000 - and that it provides me an upper-middle class life. You’re an out of touch snobby Democrat.

Im not a democrat...i didnt cast a vote in the last election and i didnt vote democrat in the previous one. So you can sling labels all you want i dont really care. If every last mcdonalds closed its foors i wouldnt give a care less. The food iis just plain unhealthy and bad.

 

[Lisa558]

Im not a democrat...i didnt cast a vote in the last election and i didnt vote democrat in the previous one. So you can sling labels all you want i dont really care. If every last mcdonalds closed its foors i wouldnt give a care less. The food iis just plain unhealthy and bad.

If every last McDonalds closed its doors, 2 million unskilled, uneducated workers would lose their jobs. But, as you say, you couldn’t care less.

 

[initforme]

If every last McDonalds closed its doors, 2 million unskilled, uneducated workers would lose their jobs. But, as you say, you couldn’t care less.

Theres other jobs besides serving toxic food. We need a shrinking workforce.

 

[Lisa558]

Theres other jobs besides serving toxic food. We need a shrinking workforce.

2 million unskilled employees flooding the market doesn’t bode well for them. They are quite limited in what they can do, and can easily be replaced with AI.

 

[candycorn]

Except the going rate for McDonalds workers is NOT $50 an hour.

And news flash: $100,000 is upper-middle class, you SNOB. My retirement income is less than that - and I go on international vacations, have dinners at nice restaurants, see shows at the Kennedy Center.

And are just about the most bitter poster on this board.

Wow... take a second and look something up for once.

 

[initforme]

2 million unskilled employees flooding the market doesn’t bode well for them. They are quite limited in what they can do, and can easily be replaced with AI.

If they are only judged by their work yes maybe perhaps. But ones value in the whole scheme isnt judged by their work or what they did for a job. To me thats the last way to judge.

 

[Lisa558]

If they are only judged by their work yes maybe perhaps. But ones value in the whole scheme isnt judged by their work or what they did for a job. To me thats the last way to judge.

One’s value in a job isn’t judged by their work or what they did for a job? THAT’s a new one.