Zone1 Is the middle class being destroyed in the US?

[Lisa558]

True
But our blue collar workforce works harder right now than any generation, ever.

Harder than the generation who worked in sweatshops 12 hours a day, 6 days a week? Who had to show up even when their back hurt and work through the pain because there was no sick leave and they couldn’t afford to miss a day’s pay?

Blue collar workers have it MUCH easier today.

 

[Bitterhook]

True
But our blue collar workforce works harder right now than any generation, ever.

But the important distinction in the comment I made is not directed at blue collar workers, because development of practices, processes and the purchase of equipment, along with establishing proper initiatives hinges more on management than the base employee.

The distinct difference between production in America versus the rest of the world has more to do with management.

 

[jc456]

True
But our blue collar workforce works harder right now than any generation, ever.

Pansies today

 

[Lisa558]

Pansies today

Yup. How can that poster make such a claim? My grandparents labored 12 hours a day in sweatshops hunched over a manual sewing machine or a tool-making table with a hot soddering iron.

 

[jc456]

Yup. How can that poster make such a claim? My grandparents labored 12 hours a day in sweatshops hunched over a manual sewing machine or a tool-making table with a hot soddering iron.

They have no challenges today

 

[initforme]

Yup. How can that poster make such a claim? My grandparents labored 12 hours a day in sweatshops hunched over a manual sewing machine or a tool-making table with a hot soddering iron.

Are you ok with that? Your grandparents being mistreated?

 

[initforme]

Pansies today

Why should they eork so hard as to be exhausted?

 

[initforme]

Harder than the generation who worked in sweatshops 12 hours a day, 6 days a week? Who had to show up even when their back hurt and work through the pain because there was no sick leave and they couldn’t afford to miss a day’s pay?

Blue collar workers have it MUCH easier today.

As they should. Mistreating workers is never ok is it?

 

[Bitterhook]

True
But our blue collar workforce works harder right now than any generation, ever.

That again is true, but in a slanted way.

Over the past few decades, being a Union member for life has decayed some as more and more Union blue collar workers have taken the next step (for a plethora of reasons across the board), gained the extra certifications or licenses necessary and hung their own shingle (especially in fields like construction, plumbing and electrical work).

More blue collar workers still do the work, but also complete or share the white collar responsibilities in their own operations, or those of a close friend/coworker. They do work very hard with unbelievable hours on the job at times.

 

[Bitterhook]

Why should they eork so hard as to be exhausted?

People should work as hard as it takes to achieve the goals they desire.

It doesn't matter how they do it, and it can involve more work and longer hours, it can involve gaining certifications that make them more valuable to their employer and provide them some leverage, and a lot of other options that even include taking a risk opening their own business.

Anyone who does not do that, will get no sympathy from me, with an additional warning that they need to be careful doing it, because you can literally work yourself to death, if you don't maintain your bearings and prioritize your goals.

It's still no one else's responsibility.

 

[Lisa558]

Are you ok with that? Your grandparents being mistreated?

When did I say it was OK? You made the ridiculous claim that current blue collar workers work harder than any other generation before them. And I pointed out how you were wrong.

 

[initforme]

When did I say it was OK? You made the ridiculous claim that current blue collar workers work harder than any other generation before them. And I pointed out how you were wrong.

Yep. But i didnt factor in mistreatment. Thats sick and twisted. To purposefully hurt workers. Just wow. Your grandparents deserved better.

 

[Lisa558]

Yep. But i didnt factor in mistreatment. Thats sick and twisted. To purposefully hurt workers. Just wow. Your grandparents deserved better.

So you would agree that blue-collar workers of previous generations worked harder than those today.

But here’s the thing: my grandparents were of course exhausted (and sweaty) when they returned to their tenement each evening - but they were thankful they were in America where their children (all bright and motivated) had the opportunity to advance out of poverty and into the middle class. And they all did.

RIP.

 

[Bitterhook]

Yep. But i didnt factor in mistreatment. Thats sick and twisted. To purposefully hurt workers. Just wow. Your grandparents deserved better.

I hear people all time talking about how horrible things are, and I am like, "What the **** are you still doing there".

Most people do not know the options, tools and opportunities available to them in the modern world, or have not even considered looking, and most often because they are too lazy to look, too selfish to sacrifice, too spoiled to get past immediate gratification, or make the mistake of think they are entitled to something they are not.

 

[initforme]

I hear people all time talking about how horrible things are, and I am like, "What the **** are you still doing there".

Most people do not know the options, tools and opportunities available to them in the modern world, or have not even considered looking, and most often because they are too lazy to look, too selfish to sacrifice, too spoiled to get past immediate gratification, or make the mistake of think they are entitled to something they are not

So it takes two full time workers to scrape by. Bingo. Thats where we are at.

 

[Bitterhook]

So it takes two full time workers to scrape by. Bingo. Thats where we are at.

Not if you want to live in a one-bedroom shack and spend the weekends in a kiddie pool from Walmart.
So Bingo, there you go.

It's actually easier to get by with more on one income, but the place you start is figuring how to do it, and not how you are going to fail to do it and blame someone else.

 

[initforme]

Not if you want to live in a one-bedroom shack and spend the weekends in a kiddie pool from Walmart.
So Bingo, there you go.

It's actually easier to get by with more on one income, but the place you start is figuring how to do it, and not how you are going to fail to do it and blame someone else.

Sounds great. Where does one sign up?

 

[Bitterhook]

Sounds great. Where does one sign up?

Right where you are sitting, and don't let me slow you down any, get to it.

 

[ding]

Only if the single salary is big. 50 grand? Nope. Notta.

A family can live on $30,000 a year, but it requires extreme budgeting, low-cost housing, and significant, intentional trade-offs to avoid debt. It is generally only feasible in low-cost-of-living areas (rural, small towns) and may require living without luxury expenses or relying on public assistance.

Key Factors for Making It Work

• Location: Living in low-cost-of-living areas, such as rural America, is often necessary for this income to suffice.
• Housing Expenses: Rent or mortgage must be very low, often under $800–$900 per month.
• Drastic Budgeting: Strict tracking of expenses, cooking at home, and avoiding debt is essential.
• Lifestyle Choices: Eliminating discretionary spending (eating out, vacations) is common to make ends meet.

Financial Reality
While possible, $30,000 is below the estimated $77,280 average annual household expense (as of 2023) and is generally considered low income for a family of four. Some families manage this by having paid-off, low-cost homes, or in areas with very low cost of living, according to YouTube video.

 

[initforme]

A family can live on $30,000 a year, but it requires extreme budgeting, low-cost housing, and significant, intentional trade-offs to avoid debt. It is generally only feasible in low-cost-of-living areas (rural, small towns) and may require living without luxury expenses or relying on public assistance.

Key Factors for Making It Work

• Location: Living in low-cost-of-living areas, such as rural America, is often necessary for this income to suffice.
• Housing Expenses: Rent or mortgage must be very low, often under $800–$900 per month.
• Drastic Budgeting: Strict tracking of expenses, cooking at home, and avoiding debt is essential.
• Lifestyle Choices: Eliminating discretionary spending (eating out, vacations) is common to make ends meet.

Financial Reality
While possible, $30,000 is below the estimated $77,280 average annual household expense (as of 2023) and is generally considered low income for a family of four. Some families manage this by having paid-off, low-cost homes, or in areas with very low cost of living, according to YouTube video.

Yep. So basically nope. Notta. Lets add higher health care premiums. I could go on and on...but nah. Reality is what it is.