Zone1 Is the middle class being destroyed in the US?

[alang1216]

You seem to want it both ways. You seem to want a free market that is regulated by the government.

Free markets not policed by the government will quickly cease to be free.

 

[alang1216]

Benefits most certainly are part of the compensation package.

Yes, benefits are a crucial part of a total compensation package, representing the non-salary value an employer provides. These often include health insurance, retirement plans (like 401(k)s), paid time off, and stock options, which together with base salary determine the total value of employment.
Key details regarding benefits as part of compensation:

• Total Compensation Value: Benefits can make up a significant portion of what you earn, sometimes offsetting a lower base salary.
• Direct vs. Indirect: While salary is "direct compensation," benefits are often considered "indirect compensation" or "fringe benefits".
• Examples: Common benefits include health, dental, and vision insurance, life and disability insurance, retirement contributions, and tuition reimbursement.
• Non-Monetary Perks: Additional benefits can include flexible working hours, remote work options, and professional development opportunities.

When evaluating a job offer, it is important to calculate the monetary value of these benefits to understand the complete compensation.

Of course they are. But they should not be.

 

[Bitterhook]

Ever hear of engineered to fail?

Well of course, and it is exactly what I am talking about and have been.

 

[alang1216]

We can’t afford to overpay them. We need to get the pay in line with the private sector.

'Overpay' is a relative term.

 

[MarathonMike]

In my experience gov't employees make significantly less than those in the private sector. I think the real question is why don't most Americans have pensions and decent healthcare plans?

Government employees start off lower than those in the private sector but have the potential to earn 6 figure salaries coupled with a generous taxpayer funded pension. The private sector rarely offers pensions anymore but employer sponsored healthcare plans are superior and less costly than Obamacare plans.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Well of course, and it is exactly what I am talking about and have been.

You made a snide remark about me saying that corporations seek to manufacture the cheapest possible product - pushing that as far as they can, including engineered to fail.
Then I say that - and you laugh and say that is what you were saying.

WTF?

 

[ding]

Free markets not policed by the government will quickly cease to be free.

I've heard that before but Standard Oil Company didn't drive up prices. They kept prices low. It seems to be more about the perception that they could rather than they did.

Any company that tries to do that will always run the risk of opening the door for competition.

 

[ding]

Of course they are. But they should not be.

That's dumb. I had a cost associated with my 9/80 and my vacation. It would have taken a sizable increase to get me to give that up.

 

[PeterPilot]

Housing prices are ridiculous

Widespread institutionalized speculation and decades of quantitative easing have made the $ worthless. Precious metal prices show that.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Free markets not policed by the government will quickly cease to be free.

That already happened a long time ago

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Widespread institutionalized speculation and decades of quantitative easing have made the $ worthless. Precious metal prices show that.

Indeed.
Gold from 1970s - 2000 was pretty consistent average increases.
Then came 2008 - and it has gone insane ever since. And during Biden's reign - holy cow!!
What I would do for having a lb. of gold I bought in say the year 2000!!
Would have cost $3,400 - now worth - almost $25,000!!
Insane

 

[Bitterhook]

You made a snide remark about me saying that corporations seek to manufacture the cheapest possible product - pushing that as far as they can, including engineered to fail.
Then I say that - and you laugh and say that is what you were saying.

WTF?

It wasn't snide and simply the way things are, although you may find it hard to accept.

Requiring the supplementing of anything less than continued improvement at any level is engineering something to fail, and you may not understand that, and the fact that you will only be stuck with mediocre results at best, that will be surpassed and leave you wanting as inflation increases.

And that is want happens when your desires and ideology are created in a house of cards that cannot support itself.

 

[Lisa558]

'Overpay' is a relative term.

Relative to what workers in the same field, with the same education and experience, earn in the private sector.

 

[initforme]

So what? There are always outliers. Statistics show that government workers doing the same job and with the same education as their counterparts in the private sector make substantially more.

With a debt of $37T, we can’t keep overpaying government workers.

We should stop underpaying private sector workers.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

When I was young, small businesses dominated the retail market and provided a middle-class income for millions of people. The Walmarts and Amazons of the world have changed all that and so enormous corporations now prevail, all concentrating wealth among investors while hiring millions of low wage workers.

That may not be the only reason for the decline of the middle class, but it provides much of it. When the elites used covid as the excuse for decimating small business, it was designed as a final nail in the coffin.

You will own nothing and you will be happy, indeed.

 

[Bitterhook]

When I was young, small businesses dominated the retail market and provided a middle-class income for millions of people. The Walmarts and Amazons of the world have changed all that and so enormous corporations now prevail, all concentrating wealth among investors while hiring millions of low wage workers.

That may not be the only reason for the decline of the middle class, but it provides much of it. When the elites used covid as the excuse for decimating small business, it was designed as a final nail in the coffin.

You will own nothing and you will be happy, indeed.

And that is an excellent example of the devastating effects inflation can provide.

Take the saying "The rising tide raises all boats", but what we get with inflation is the crazy idea that adding more water to the ocean will somehow turn someone's rowboat into a yacht.

Instead of thinking that someone can better avoid inflation and the consequences of it, and people need to learn that building a better boat (continuous improvement), won't actually leave them in a piss poor rowboat in the middle of the ocean bitching about how what someone else did is what put them there.

 

[Lisa558]

We should stop underpaying private sector workers.

Who is “we”? They’re private sector. Businesses decide what they will pay, based on market value and the need to be profitable.

 

[initforme]

Who is “we”? They’re private sector.w Businesses decide what they will pay, based on market value and the need to be profitable.

What id like to see is said businesses having an awful hard time even getting one applicant at a time like this where its beyond easy to find hard workers.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

They also provide bettrr wsges and benefits to their workers. Thats worth the tiny extra cost.

Where was this when I was a kid and my father's union would go on strike for a 30-cent an hour wage increase and be out of work for months? We nearly starved to death if my parents were not so resourceful.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

My painter makes $85 per hour not counting materials. Thats a decent wage.

That is a skilled wage that requires an awful lot of equipment that he had to purchase. Not applicable.