Is the construct of good and evil an artifact of intelligence?

[there4eyeM]

Good" and "evil" are manifestations of dualistic thinking.

Correct. Anyone who has taken an ethics course learned that. What a grueling course that was.

So, how is it that so many of our brothers and sisters continue wandering in a self-induced miasma of refusal to acknowledge this?

 

[zaangalewa]

Do you believe the construct of good and evil to be an artifact of intelligence?

No. Good is what helps all and every life.

 

[zaangalewa]

Animals aren't good or evil because it takes intelligence to be one or the other, so yes.

A very intelligent human being was Reichspropagandaminister Josef Goebbels. That's why it was easy for him to construct a logic of and for the world - not only in his own mind and the mind of his wife - which made it plausible for them to murder their own six children. And so they did.

While in the concentration camp (= sense destroying camp) KZ Dachau a priest breeded a new form of rose - ¿whatelse to do as a prisoner in a concentration camp under Hitler? - made SS prison guards in the KZ Mauthausen a funny game: They told prisoners to bring them roses from their rose garden for their wifes. When a prisoner entered the rose garden he was shot dead. Reason: Thievery of roses.

 

[zaangalewa]

Yes. Man's intelligence. That is why the concept varies so much between cultures and evolves over time. An example is the OT focus on an eye for an eye and the NT focus on turning the other cheek.

Has it ever been diametrically opposed? Has man celebrated being evil for the sake of being evil?

No need, man just redefines evil. Do you know an evil that can't be redefined as good by some culture?

Can you provide an example of what you are discussing?

We generally consider killing innocent children to be evil (lets ignore the abortion thing). We also bombed German cities knowing that innocent children would be killed and hailed those that dropped the bombs as heroes.

Do you believe that we rationalized that dropping bombs in war to be moral and good?

"You" (= most Americans I ever spoke with) still do so. You attribute the victims of your bombs with guilt. Otherwise you had murdered innocent human beings. Dresden, Hieroshima (You mass-murdered there the whole population of a big city) were necessary in "your" view to the world, because otherwise much more US-Americans had to die. And it makes not happy, to have to see that the own nation did do real heavy crimes too in history. What to tell the own father, who had bombed down refugees in Dresden, specially when he is proud, because he had killed so many damned Nazis there? ...



Herr, wenn die stolzen Feinde schnauben,
So gib, dass wir im festen Glauben
Nach deiner Macht und Hülfe sehn!

Wir wollen dir allein vertrauen,
So können wir den scharfen Klauen
Des Feindes unversehrt entgehn.

 

[zaangalewa]

Do you believe the construct of good and evil to be an artifact of intelligence?

There is a growing body of research that demonstrates 'morals', religion, etc, may be hardwired into our brains. ...

I think the worst moralists are atheists. And I guess most Christians would understand me very well, when I would say "to be a moralist is a sin" (what doesn't mean to be an amoral person is not a much bigger sin too!).

Religion is by the way the rebound in god. A religion is able to be an ideology - but the Christian religion is not an ideology. Everyone is able to criticize Christians.

 

[zaangalewa]

Yes. Man's intelligence. That is why the concept varies so much between cultures and evolves over time. An example is the OT focus on an eye for an eye and the NT focus on turning the other cheek.

Has it ever been diametrically opposed? Has man celebrated being evil for the sake of being evil?

No need, man just redefines evil. Do you know an evil that can't be redefined as good by some culture?

Can you provide an example of what you are discussing?

We generally consider killing innocent children to be evil (lets ignore the abortion thing). We also bombed German cities knowing that innocent children would be killed and hailed those that dropped the bombs as heroes.

Yes, cuz good people would just let Nazis do whatever they wanted to without any resistance.

That's nonsense. The problem is a problem of the logic of time. The real problem is that good people are often convinced to be a N. is a good new thing. So some are walking this wrong way - manipulated from a continuous brainwashing stream of more and more weird propaganda. And when you are in the middle of the swamp, then it is difficult to find a good stand.

 

[ding]

Do you believe the construct of good and evil to be an artifact of intelligence?

No. Good is what helps all and every life.

And it is logical that good helps all and every life. So as intelligence increases what was instinctual becomes more conscious. So much so that man constructs the concept of good and evil that no other animal possesses.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

So, how is it that so many of our brothers and sisters continue wandering in a self-induced miasma of refusal to acknowledge this?

Because they are lazy.

 

[Eric Arthur Blair]

Choosing to commit an act of evil invites reprisal at some future point, if not personally then for descendants and society in general. It is at base a nihilistic act.
So conversely doing good returns good acts. It is axiomatic. So what is more intelligent? Inviting evil in return for evil or good in return for good?

 

[ding]

So, how is it that so many of our brothers and sisters continue wandering in a self-induced miasma of refusal to acknowledge this?

Because they are lazy.

That is a textbook example of not only the dunning effect but also dualistic thinking.

It brings to you some internal comfort to know that you are part of a group. You feel reassured that your thoughts are the correct ones and feel vindicated that you are right and others are wrong. That is textbook dualistic think.

You seeing others as lazy and not seeing yourself as lazy is textbook dunning effect.

 

[ding]

Good" and "evil" are manifestations of dualistic thinking.

Correct. Anyone who has taken an ethics course learned that. What a grueling course that was.

So, how is it that so many of our brothers and sisters continue wandering in a self-induced miasma of refusal to acknowledge this?

Because many of us believe that virtue is the source of good and that it can't be anything man wants it to be.

How can you possibly argue against this? You can't. Virtue literally exists and is naturally an organizing principle.

 

[alang1216]

We generally consider killing innocent children to be evil (lets ignore the abortion thing). We also bombed German cities knowing that innocent children would be killed and hailed those that dropped the bombs as heroes.

Yes, cuz good people would just let Nazis do whatever they wanted to without any resistance.

Sometimes evil is good.

Now if you were trying to say that good can come from bad, that is true but we should never rationalize that bad is good.

Killing a child is an evil but, as you've said, sometimes it is the lesser of two evils.

No. I don’t believe I did say that killing a child is the lesser of two evils.

Please address the words I write and I promise to do the same for you. Fair enough?

Did I infer your position incorrectly? I wrote "We also bombed German cities knowing that innocent children would be killed". I think we can all agree that killing innocent children is an evil thing to do and that allowing Naziis to control Europe, N. Africa, etc. would also be an evil. In such a case, killing innocent children maybe the lessor to the two evils.

Sorry if I mischaracterized your position. Please clarify.

 

[ding]

Yes, cuz good people would just let Nazis do whatever they wanted to without any resistance.

Sometimes evil is good.

Now if you were trying to say that good can come from bad, that is true but we should never rationalize that bad is good.

Killing a child is an evil but, as you've said, sometimes it is the lesser of two evils.

No. I don’t believe I did say that killing a child is the lesser of two evils.

Please address the words I write and I promise to do the same for you. Fair enough?

Did I infer your position incorrectly? I wrote "We also bombed German cities knowing that innocent children would be killed". I think we can all agree that killing innocent children is an evil thing to do and that allowing Naziis to control Europe, N. Africa, etc. would also be an evil. In such a case, killing innocent children maybe the lessor to the two evils.

Sorry if I mischaracterized your position. Please clarify.

Yes, in that context killing anyone during war may be the lesser of two evils. But it isn’t good as you inferred when you said sometimes evil is good. The worst mistake we can make is rationalizing that evil is good and justified.

Men don’t turn evil over night. It is a gradual process where good gets eroded a little at a time by rationalizing doing wrong is right.

 

[Picaro]

Has it ever been diametrically opposed? Has man celebrated being evil for the sake of being evil?

No need, man just redefines evil. Do you know an evil that can't be redefined as good by some culture?

Can you provide an example of what you are discussing?

We generally consider killing innocent children to be evil (lets ignore the abortion thing). We also bombed German cities knowing that innocent children would be killed and hailed those that dropped the bombs as heroes.

Yes, cuz good people would just let Nazis do whatever they wanted to without any resistance.

That's nonsense. The problem is a problem of the logic of time. The real problem is that good people are often convinced to be a N. is a good new thing. So some are walking this wrong way - manipulated from a continuous brainwashing stream of more and more weird propaganda. And when you are in the middle of the swamp, then it is difficult to find a good stand.

Actually it's pretty easy for those who have morals and aren't putting so much effort into lawyering their way out of false dilemmas. Good people aren't required to stand and do nothing to stop evil; just because evil people will hide behind good people and get them harmed and killed doesn't make those people who aren't standing by but actively eradicating evil guilty of some 'lesser evil'; the blame lies entirely on the evil people and their actions that created the situations. 'Swamps' present no moral ambiguity or confusion to those with genuine principles.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

That is a textbook example of not only the dunning effect but also dualistic thinking.

False. It repreaents neither. And it is not dualistic. Anyone who thinks in only a simplistic, dualistic concept of good or evil has a flaw. In the case of cuntioning adults, it os mostly because you are lazyminded.

That is not dualistic, nor does it represent a "dunning effect" (not that you understand either concept, apparently).

 

[ding]

That is a textbook example of not only the dunning effect but also dualistic thinking.

False. It repreaents neither. And it is not dualistic. Anyone who thinks in only a simplistic, dualistic concept of good or evil has a flaw. In the case of cuntioning adults, it os mostly because you are lazyminded.

That is not dualistic, nor does it represent a "dunning effect" (not that you understand either concept, apparently).

I don’t listen to you. You’re a liar.

 

[zaangalewa]

No need, man just redefines evil. Do you know an evil that can't be redefined as good by some culture?

Can you provide an example of what you are discussing?

We generally consider killing innocent children to be evil (lets ignore the abortion thing). We also bombed German cities knowing that innocent children would be killed and hailed those that dropped the bombs as heroes.

Yes, cuz good people would just let Nazis do whatever they wanted to without any resistance.

That's nonsense. The problem is a problem of the logic of time. The real problem is that good people are often convinced to be a N. is a good new thing. So some are walking this wrong way - manipulated from a continuous brainwashing stream of more and more weird propaganda. And when you are in the middle of the swamp, then it is difficult to find a good stand.

Actually it's pretty easy for those who have morals

How do you know what's easy for people, who have moral?

and aren't putting so much effort into lawyering their way out of false dilemmas.

A complex empty phrase

Good people

Good people?

aren't required to stand and do nothing to stop evil;

Do they? How do you know? Where from comes this idea? Mr. Satanas?

just because evil people will hide behind good people

"Evil" and "holy" is the pair of words. The other pair of words is "bad" and "good". Who is holy is not always only good. And I never saw that for example evil Islamists (=bad, godless people, who misrespect the belief in god and misrespect the life of other human beings in most evil ways too) - hide themselves behind good people. They just simple murder, who shares not their opinions. It's easy to murder enemies and to declare everyone else to be an enemy.

and get them harmed and killed doesn't make those people who aren't standing by but actively eradicating evil guilty of some 'lesser evil'; the blame lies entirely on the evil people and their actions that created the situations. 'Swamps' present no moral ambiguity or confusion to those with genuine principles.

Your little confusion in the beginning of your speech grew now to a bigger confusion. Try this way:

"Lass die Liebe in deinem Herzen wurzeln,
und es kann nur Gutes daraus hervorgehen."
Augustinus

 

[zaangalewa]

Yes, cuz good people would just let Nazis do whatever they wanted to without any resistance.

Sometimes evil is good.

Now if you were trying to say that good can come from bad, that is true but we should never rationalize that bad is good.

Killing a child is an evil but, as you've said, sometimes it is the lesser of two evils.

No. I don’t believe I did say that killing a child is the lesser of two evils.

Please address the words I write and I promise to do the same for you. Fair enough?

Did I infer your position incorrectly? I wrote "We also bombed German cities knowing that innocent children would be killed". I think we can all agree that killing innocent children is an evil thing to do and that allowing Naziis to control Europe, N. Africa, etc. would also be an evil. In such a case, killing innocent children maybe the lessor to the two evils.

Keeps the problem that all the mass-murder "you" was doing on Germans in Germany made the war longer and not shorter and had costed much more victims - specially in the Holocaust too. And keeps the problem, that the mad man Hitler and his criminal gang were in general a result of the mad situation of Germany during and after world war 1. I guess without the USA we Germans including Austria-Hungaria and the Osman empire and others had won world war 1. England, France, Russia and their allies had lost. I am not sure in which world we would live in this case today. But I do not have the feeling it would be a worser world, than we see today.

Sorry if I mischaracterized your position. Please clarify.

I fear, you justify with this sentence on reason of a simplifying national identity now murder on children in a similiar way, how the Nazis justified murder on the children of Jews.

 

[zaangalewa]

Do you believe the construct of good and evil to be an artifact of intelligence?

No. Good is what helps all and every life.

And it is logical that good helps all and every life. So as intelligence increases what was instinctual becomes more conscious. So much so that man constructs the concept of good and evil that no other animal possesses.

My dog for example is convinced, when her slave - ah sorry: master - is doing something good, then she has to get a treat. And because I hate to dissapoínt her expectant view, she never had any reason to change this moral view.

 

[Picaro]

Can you provide an example of what you are discussing?

We generally consider killing innocent children to be evil (lets ignore the abortion thing). We also bombed German cities knowing that innocent children would be killed and hailed those that dropped the bombs as heroes.

Yes, cuz good people would just let Nazis do whatever they wanted to without any resistance.

That's nonsense. The problem is a problem of the logic of time. The real problem is that good people are often convinced to be a N. is a good new thing. So some are walking this wrong way - manipulated from a continuous brainwashing stream of more and more weird propaganda. And when you are in the middle of the swamp, then it is difficult to find a good stand.

Actually it's pretty easy for those who have morals

How do you know what's easy for people, who have moral?

and aren't putting so much effort into lawyering their way out of false dilemmas.

A complex empty phrase

Good people

Good people?

aren't required to stand and do nothing to stop evil;

Do they? How do you know? Where from comes this idea? Mr. Satanas?

just because evil people will hide behind good people

"Evil" and "holy" is the pair of words. The other pair of words is "bad" and "good". Who is holy is not always only good. And I never saw that for example evil Islamists (=bad, godless people, who misrespect the belief in god and misrespect the life of other human beings in most evil ways too) - hide themselves behind good people. They just simple murder, who shares not their opinions. It's easy to murder enemies and to declare everyone else to be an enemy.

and get them harmed and killed doesn't make those people who aren't standing by but actively eradicating evil guilty of some 'lesser evil'; the blame lies entirely on the evil people and their actions that created the situations. 'Swamps' present no moral ambiguity or confusion to those with genuine principles.

Your little confusion in the beginning of your speech grew now to a bigger confusion. Try this way:

"Lass die Liebe in deinem Herzen wurzeln,
und es kann nur Gutes daraus hervorgehen."
Augustinus

Nobody is interested in what cranks like you think, nor is anybody but tards going to feel guilty about all the Germans your hero Hitler got killed. You'll just have to cry over that by yourself. The History Forum has some scum who hold frequent Pity Parties for the Japanese and their losses in WW II; maybe they will let you into their treehouse.