Zone1 is the church built upon Peter? HELL NO

[Cougarbear]

It's totally unimportant for me who murdered whom in history. I lost the overview in this direction.



Not really. I have Jewish ancestors on my own. I'm more anti-pathetic and suggest to take a much more serios look at all this problems - specially also under the view that "Andalusia" had been "Vandalusia" - which was perhaps founded from Arian Christians before they became Muslims And the sado-maso stories that inquisitions tortured witches is for example indeed very far from reality. Such stories are created in the 19th century in the so called "culture fight" against Catholics.



What you say is just simple: Never criticize Mormons because Mormons are always right in their critics on Catholics. You use us Catholics as a shield to go to hell. Very clear: I am not this shield which helps you to go down.


comment: "das Brennen erwacht" is wrong. He sings: "... Verlangen, das brennend erwacht.".

It’s totally unimportant for me who Joseph Smith married then. And, you are obviously anti-semetic

 

[zaangalewa]

It’s totally unimportant for me who Joseph Smith married then.

Why? He is the founder of your religion and for him was this theme so import that it caused a war.

And, you are obviously anti-semetic

You should really try to speak with god, superbeliever. For Nazis I'm Jew enough so they will kill me and meanwhile calls oneselve every anti-semitic superidiot "philo-Semite" and Jews "Nazis".

 

[Cougarbear]

Why? He is the founder of your religion and for him was this theme so import that it caused a war.



You should really try to speak with god, superbeliever. For Nazis I'm Jew enough so they will kill me and meanwhile calls oneselve every anti-semitic superidiot "philo-Semite" and Jews "Nazis".

Wrong again. Joseph Smith didn’t found our Church. Jesus Christ came back And restored His Church through his servant, the prophet. And continues to do so today. If you throw rocks in your glass house, then expect to have rocks thrown back at you. Murderous Popes who tortured people during medieval times and killed Jews for their Spanish Inquisition, slept with wives of other men, you have no high ground. Especially since Joseph was sealed with the ones he did. That’s a marriage like state for time and all eternity. He killed no one. He didn’t start any wars. He prophesied the beginning location of Civil War.

 

[hadit]

I do? Mary asked for prayers (to God) for peace, for us to pray (to God) for forgiveness. What "stuff" are you imagining I (and others) am asking Mary to do? Are you thinking because Mary asked people to pray, when we people do pray, the Holy Spirit, says, "Well here's a billion prayers that can be ignored. I need a break. Imagine! Mary asking other people to pray for peace and forgiveness, as if I don't have enough to do!"

I did ask my grandmothers to join me in prayer once. They both ratted me out to my mother, advising her I needed help. Which the solved the problem I had been praying over.

I know that some Catholics do pray to Mary and ask her to grant them favors. I know that they pray to Mary because they believe Jesus will listen to her when He may not listen to them. If you do not, that's great, but do you support them doing that? Finally, why do you think Mary's prayers are "special" that God will hear hers more than yours?

 

[Meriweather]

I know that some Catholics do pray to Mary and ask her to grant them favors. I know that they pray to Mary because they believe Jesus will listen to her when He may not listen to them. If you do not, that's great, but do you support them doing that? Finally, why do you think Mary's prayers are "special" that God will hear hers more than yours?

Some Catholics do a lot of things, and I imagine that is true for all faiths and all denominations. Do you do all the things that some of your denomination do? Why pick on "some" Catholics and imagine every Catholic does what "some" do--or what you think they do? Here are the salient Catholic points:

• The Body of Christ consists of both the living and those who have passed on.
• When two or three of the Body of Christ are gathered in prayer, Christ is in their midst.
• Mary is a member of the Body of Christ, and is also honored as the mother of Jesus.
• Mary has asked that we join her in praying to God for peace and the forgiveness of sins.

We can discuss any of these principal points, but wandering off into the woods to discover what "some" do is kind of like saying, "No one should go to the beach (for example) because some get sunburned or even drown. Or, because some don't wash their hands properly, no one should wash their hands.

Those who believe asking Mary and the saints to join them in prayer would lead them to worshiping Mary and the saints, then they should avoid that just as they would avoid the beach if they only believe it would lead to their drowning or being sunburned.

The Body of Christ is community, and we care for one another.

 

[hadit]

Some Catholics do a lot of things, and I imagine that is true for all faiths and all denominations. Do you do all the things that some of your denomination do? Why pick on "some" Catholics and imagine every Catholic does what "some" do--or what you think they do? Here are the salient Catholic points:

• The Body of Christ consists of both the living and those who have passed on.

That is true. We disagree, however, in the amount of involvement the dead have in our lives. I believe there is a great cloud of witnesses around us, but nowhere in Scripture does it indicate we are to include them in our prayers.

• When two or three of the Body of Christ are gathered in prayer, Christ is in their midst.

That is Biblical and true. It is not, however, Biblical that Mary is there. You believe she is hearing your plea for her to pray with you and somehow it escapes you that millions of other people are praying to her at the same time, asking her many different things.

• Mary is a member of the Body of Christ, and is also honored as the mother of Jesus.

Honored, yes. Granted divine powers to hear and handle prayers, no.

• Mary has asked that we join her in praying to God for peace and the forgiveness of sins.

That is not Biblical, but tradition, and as tradition can be questioned and doubted.

We can discuss any of these principal points, but wandering off into the woods to discover what "some" do is kind of like saying, "No one should go to the beach (for example) because some get sunburned or even drown. Or, because some don't wash their hands properly, no one should wash their hands.

Those who believe asking Mary and the saints to join them in prayer would lead them to worshiping Mary and the saints, then they should avoid that just as they would avoid the beach if they only believe it would lead to their drowning or being sunburned.

The Body of Christ is community, and we care for one another.

Of course we do, but those who have passed on are either at rest in Christ or without Him, and there is no Biblical support for the idea that they are listening to hear from you. I am, furthermore, saddened that you cannot even state that those who pray selfishly to Mary, expecting her to either do something for them or to get Jesus' ear because they don't think He's listening to them are wrong for doing so.

 

[Cougarbear]

That is true. We disagree, however, in the amount of involvement the dead have in our lives. I believe there is a great cloud of witnesses around us, but nowhere in Scripture does it indicate we are to include them in our prayers.

That is Biblical and true. It is not, however, Biblical that Mary is there. You believe she is hearing your plea for her to pray with you and somehow it escapes you that millions of other people are praying to her at the same time, asking her many different things.

Honored, yes. Granted divine powers to hear and handle prayers, no.

That is not Biblical, but tradition, and as tradition can be questioned and doubted.

Of course we do, but those who have passed on are either at rest in Christ or without Him, and there is no Biblical support for the idea that they are listening to hear from you. I am, furthermore, saddened that you cannot even state that those who pray selfishly to Mary, expecting her to either do something for them or to get Jesus' ear because they don't think He's listening to them are wrong for doing so.

Excellent responses on all points. Why do they call their prayers “Hail Mary’s” if they aren’t praying to Mary. I’m sure she’s embarrassed. The Bible clearly teaches Jesus Christ is the only mediator between the Father and all of humanity. This is just one of the many doctrines and ordinances the Catholic Church has changed with the traditions and doctrines of man.

 

[JustAGuy1]

So Jesus lied?

 

[Meriweather]

That is true. We disagree, however, in the amount of involvement the dead have in our lives. I believe there is a great cloud of witnesses around us, but nowhere in Scripture does it indicate we are to include them in our prayers.

No worries. Going above and beyond isn't for all. Good enough often works.

 

[Meriweather]

That is Biblical and true. It is not, however, Biblical that Mary is there. You believe she is hearing your plea for her to pray with you and somehow it escapes you that millions of other people are praying to her at the same time, asking her many different things.

Mary isn't a member of the Body of Christ in your faith?

What has escaped you is what I am constantly repeating. Mary asked us to join in her prayers for peace and forgiveness. If Mary doesn't hear my prayers for peace and forgiveness you think I should be shattered? Mary didn't promise me anything. She asked for our prayers. Say, 'Nope' if you wish, and say because Mary can't hear you praying for peace and forgiveness you refuse to join her in praying for peace and forgiveness.

As far as people requesting Mary to join in their prayers, what is it to you? So you don't believe the Holy Spirit can handle all the prayers--and so what. You are certainly not the first to believe prayers go unheard. You are the first to explain heaven is a chaotic place always being bombarded with prayers. That's not my view of either prayer or heaven.

 

[Meriweather]

I am, furthermore, saddened that you cannot even state that those who pray selfishly to Mary, expecting her to either do something for them or to get Jesus' ear because they don't think He's listening to them are wrong for doing so.

You judge people are praying selfishly, and even seem to be condemning them. Remember, when people ask another for prayers, those prayers are to God. It's almost as if you are saying, "It is no fair for Catholics to ask others to pray to God with them!"

If you are content in your prayers of you and God alone, why does it disturb you so much that sometimes some of us approach God together? It's not as if we are ganging up on you or even disturbing your alone time with God. We have our alone time as well.

Ever hear the story of the little boy who got scared one night when a thunderstorm awakened him? He called for his mom, and of course she came and comforted him. She also reminded her son that he could always call on God when he was scared. "I know," the little boy responded snuggling closer after another clap of thunder. "But tonight I need God to have skin."

 

[zaangalewa]

Wrong again. Joseph Smith didn’t found our Church. Jesus Christ came back And restored His Church through his servant, the prophet.

I could tell you why this is for sure wrong - but this would make no sense.

And continues to do so today. If you throw rocks in your glass house, then expect to have rocks thrown back at you. Murderous Popes who tortured people during medieval times and killed Jews for their Spanish Inquisition, slept with wives of other men, you have no high ground. Especially since Joseph was sealed with the ones he did. That’s a marriage like state for time and all eternity. He killed no one. He didn’t start any wars. He prophesied the beginning location of Civil War.

no comment

 

[Cougarbear]

I could tell you why this is for sure wrong - but this would make no sense.



no comment

When the truth fits, wear it. Don’t throw rocks living in a glass house like the Catholic Church.

 

[ninja007]

mary as co-mediatrix, an absolute false heretical teaching.

 

[zaangalewa]

When the truth fits, wear it. Don’t throw rocks living in a glass house like the Catholic Church.

no comment

 

[zaangalewa]

mary as co-mediatrix, an absolute false heretical teaching.

Question: Is Mary without sin?

 

[Cougarbear]

no comment

Gotcha!

 

[zaangalewa]

Gotcha!

Goethe?

Freudvoll
Und leidvoll,
Gedankenvoll sein,
Langen
Und bangen
In schwebender Pein,
Himmelhoch jauchzend,
Zum Tode betrübt;
Glücklich allein
Ist die Seele, die liebt.

Translsation:

Joyful
And sorrowful,
To be thoughtful,
Take hold
And anxious
In suspended agony,
Rejoicing to the skies,
Saddened to death;
Happy alone
Is the soul that loves.

 

[zaangalewa]

Excellent responses on all points. Why do they call their prayers “Hail Mary’s” if they aren’t praying to Mary. ...

The prayer is a death prayer because mother Mary knew what will happen with her son - and she was there when he died. No one wishes any mother to have to suffer like her.

Concrete: I do not know how many soldiers in the Ukraine are praying this prayer today and how many of them will see the day after tomorrow. But what I am absolutelly not able to understand is how it can happen that the tyrant Putin steals the children of Russian mothers for to send them into his senseless, stupid and cruel war and lets them bring home dead as destroyed fighting machines. Always when I have to think about such themes breaks my heart - specially because it can happen I have to kill such people on my own - but for sure I have to support the Ukrainians who defend themselves and who have not any other chance than to kill and to be killed. What for heavens sake is wrong with us all - what's wrong with the whole mankind? Why do we do such an unbelievable bullshit?

Hail Mary, full of grace,
The Lord is with thee.
Blessed art thou amongst women,
And blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary, Mother of God,
Pray for us sinners,
Now and at the hour of our death. Amen.



Ave Maria! Jungfrau mild,
Erhöre einer Jungfrau Flehen,
Aus diesem Felsen starr und wild
Soll mein Gebet zu dir hinwehen.
Wir schlafen sicher bis zum Morgen,
Ob Menschen noch so grausam sind.
O Jungfrau, sieh der Jungfrau Sorgen,
O Mutter, hör ein bittend Kind!
Ave Maria!

Ave Maria! Unbefleckt!
Wenn wir auf diesen Fels hinsinken
Zum Schlaf, und uns dein Schutz bedeckt,
Wird weich der harte Fels uns dünken.
Du lächelst, Rosendüfte wehen
In dieser dumpfen Felsenkluft.
O Mutter, höre Kindes Flehen,
O Jungfrau, eine Jungfrau ruft!
Ave Maria!

Ave Maria! Reine Magd!
Der Erde und der Luft Dämonen,
Von deines Auges Huld verjagt,
Sie können hier nicht bei uns wohnen.
Wir woll'n uns still dem Schicksal beugen,
Da uns dein heil'ger Trost anweht;
Der Jungfrau wolle hold dich neigen,
Dem Kind, das für den Vater fleht.
Ave Maria!


Translation:

Hail Mary! Virgin mild,
Hear a virgin's plea,
From this rock rigid and wild
Let my prayer blow to thee.
We'll sleep safely till morning,
However cruel men may be.
O Virgin, see the Virgin's sorrows,
O Mother, hear a pleading child!
Hail Mary!

Hail Mary! Immaculate!
When we sink down on this rock
To sleep, and your protection covers us,
The hard rock will seem soft to us.
You smile, the scent of roses wafts
In this dull cleft of rock.
O mother, hear the child's plea,
O Virgin, a virgin is calling!
Hail Mary!

Hail Mary! Pure handmaiden!
Demons of earth and air,
Chased away by your grace,
They cannot dwell here with us.
We will bow quietly to fate,
As your holy consolation blows upon us;
To the maiden let us bow,
To the child who pleads for the Father.
Hail Mary!

Translated with DeepL.com (free version)

 

[ninja007]

Question: Is Mary without sin?

no.