Is Joyce Meyer an outright liar or just oblivious & deceived?

[HaShev]

I have no ill feelings towards Joyce Meyer or her outreach that targets womans issues, but today her broadcast showed something disturbing that needs a quick response.
Many pastors have FINALLY decided to NOTICE DEUT. where I posted constantly on choices we are given: to choose life the blessing instead of death the curse.
Many recently have been using that verse as their sermon for the day.
In front of her huge audience she decided to discuss that verse saying it's a no brainer to choose life the blessing (sound familiar?)
HOWEVER, she blatantly lied and said that was the teaching of the gospels all along.
That is not true, many times I proved and showed that the gospel teaches the curse (death). Including representing themselves with the mark of (the beast) death (=cross), choosing the cursed death (hanging on a tree) [Galatians 3:13 "Christ... being made a curse upon us... Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree" also read Deut 21:22.]
for it's messenger of the kingdom of death and boasting that he has the keys to the gates of death(the pit)-Rev1:18.
Lifting high the son of perdition (lucifer) revealed in
Ezekiel 28 does not help their claim either.
Perdition means fall to the pit, Baal's son the morning star(rev 22:16) fell to the pit in a cursed death for claiming to be a god.
-1 peter 3:19, acts 2:27,apostles creed, Ezekiel28 warning.

They are clearly teaching the cursed kingdom in death rather then the blessing Creation of life. Examples:
Colossians 2:12] and you were
buried with him in baptism Romans 6:4 We
were buried therefore with him by baptism
into death in John 18:33-37 :his kingdom is
not of the earth..
The mystery is you've been worshiping death and the gate keeper of death.
John 10 :9 {Jesus speaking} I am the
gate; whoever enters through me will be
saved. But his kingdom was not of this earth
it was in death so he claims to be the gate
keeper of Hades. Thus the whole world is
deceived.
Rev 9:1 the fallen star was given
the key to the shaft of the Abyss. remember
Jesus is the one admitting to having this
Key to the abyss in Revelation 1:18 He’s
also always saying salvation is in death and
we see his proud proclaimation of being the
gate keeper of death: -Apocryphon of
James- "become seekers for death, like the
dead who seek for life; for that which they
seek is revealed to them. And what is there
to trouble them? As for you, when you
examine death it will teach you election.
Verily I say unto you, none of those who fear
death will be saved; for the kingdom of
death belongs to those who put themselves
to death!" Rev 9:2 When he opened the
Abyss, smoke rose from it like the smoke
from a gigantic furnace. The sun and sky
were darkened by the smoke from the Abyss.
Luke 23:44-45 "and there was a darkness
over all the earth until the ninth hour. And
the sun was darkened."
Act’s 2:27 and 1 peter3:19 he descended to hell means he opened the abyss.
This is when it darkened at his
opening of the abyss. G0D darkens the
heavens as he snuffs out his enemy,like in
Ezekiel 32:7-8.
Revelations 6:7 When the Lamb opened the
fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth
living creature say, "Come!" 8I looked, and
there before me was a pale horse! Its rider
was named Death, and Hades was following
close behind him. They were given power
over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword,
famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of
the earth.
He knew in dying he would draw people to
himself rather then to G-d the dying god
mythology was thus imitated where the son
(the morning star) surpasses his father Baal.
He wanted to raise himself high into the
heavens above the throne of G-d: Isaiah
14:12 the Morning Star Heb Helel; i.e.
shining one Is 34:4; Luke 10:18; Rev 8:10;
9:1 2 Pet 1:19; Rev 2:28; 22:16 .

There is no better and obvious description of their greek death cultism and teachings of the curse then in:
Apocryphon of James".... become seekers for
death, like the dead who seek for life; for
that which they seek is revealed to them.
And what is there to trouble them? As for
you, when you examine death it will teach
you election. Verily I say unto you, none of
those who fear death will be saved; for the
kingdom of death belongs to those who put
themselves to death!"
Thus Jesus is the curse in chosing Death according to:
Deuteronomy\Devarim: 30:19
" I call heaven and earth to witness against you this day,That I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse; Therefore choose life, that you may live, you and your children."
The Church teaches the curse when
they say:"solution for mankind's dilemma
lies in suffering, and through the portals of
death" "Suffering Is Also God's
Gift” - Pope John Paul II Angelus, October
13, 1996, Gemelli Hospital.

So if Joyce Meyers an outright liar or just blind and oblivious to the actual gospel teaching opposing the Creator and the creation?

I'm going with you presenting false choices.

Dear hadit
They may be false to you but true for someone else.
Like explaining quantum physics may not work for me but might be perfect for someone else.

Let me give you one example of something JM was teaching:

She compared God's love and grace to the loving
parent who had warned their kids over and over
to stay away from trouble and don't go anywhere without asking permission
so the parents can watch out for them.

But the kids disobeyed and went out anyway and got in trouble with
the neighborhood bully coming after them.

Does the parent/God stop and hold the kid responsible for disobeying?
Any parent would protect that kid from the bully first, and go admonish them later.

So she used this story to explain that God does not reject and judge
and refuse to help us just because we disobeyed and did wrong.
We still face those consequences though God will protect us
when we ask.

So that's a good example of her philosophy and balancing the sides
and still having accountability.

is that false teaching? I think it works for people who
understand parenting. hadit

You are aware, are you not, that the choices presented were: Is "Joyce Meyers an outright liar or just blind and oblivious to the actual gospel teaching opposing the Creator and the creation"?

I don't think either of them are true. In fact, the second one is based on a falsehood. Joyce Meyer is not incorrect.

Explain why, because both your posts are blanket subjective opinions without reasons or subtance in rebuttle.

Which brings up a whole other discussion as to how easy non descriptive commentary can be missread and missinterpreted, which is why I'm always thoroughly explainatory (using parenthesis to define or eleviate confusion). Was Jesus (the writers of) obviously too vague? Yes, which he (writers) himself (themselves) denounces then does himself anyway(lies).
Example: John 18:19-21 The high priest then asked Jesus about his disciples, and about his doctrine. Jesus answered him:
"I spoke in openness to the world;
I always taught in the synagogue and the temple, where the Jews always come;
and I have said nothing in secret.
however we see:
Mark 4:10-12
But, when he was in private... the twelve asked him the meaning of the parable. And he said, "You are permitted to know the SECRETS of the kingdom of God.But to those outside, these things are said in parables,SO THAT they MAY see but not perceive, and MAY hear but not understand...
Matt 13:10-15
And the disciples came and asked, "Why do you speak to them in parables?" He answered, "Because you are permitted to know the SECRETS of the kingdom of heaven, but they are not permitted."

Why, is it because they would leave if they knew it was Hades?

That's extremely easy to understand, even to a neophyte student of Scripture. Jesus operated openly and taught openly. He also taught some things that were only for His disciples to understand AT THAT TIME. Notice that we now have the explanation of the parables He taught. IOW, there were no secret plots to overthrow Rome or the Jewish power structure of the day, only secrets about the Kingdom to be revealed at a later time. What is hard to understand about that?

1)the church who created the Jesus character knew nothing about anything.
They couldn't even get the meaning of scripture they plagiarized right.
It is why the RCC uses the blanket term "Mysteries".
2)your comment contradicts and does NOT answer those veres I left as just a small sample.
3)2 of the figures used for the Jesus myth were revolting against Rome.
Yehuda the Galilean tax revolter used for the Jesus character in Bill O'Reilly's book, who was the Galilean christ in the time of Herod and Lysanias per NT was punished (crucified) for his tax revolt by Rome in 6bc.
That was not the same as the AD era christ Theudas by the Jordan crucified by Rome for his political revolt in 45 ad who's apostles were Martyrs and revolutionaries against Rome.
4)the church made it clear that the God of this world was their adversary(stated that in the NT) and that way they claim death as theirs, so they can promise soldiers and donators a false promise and hope of paradise in death, unsuspectedly.
That way they get willing dupes who
willingly die for their kings & leaders, who Shimon pointed out are not in any rush to enter paradise in death themselves.

5) The kingdom is of the messenger of Life(blessing) not Jesus the messenger of death(the curse).
source: “War Scroll” (4Q471)
Where in verse XVII, it says, “God will send eternal bliss by the might of the Princely Angel of "the Kingdom of Michael".
He will enlighten with joy the children of Israel.

 

[emilynghiem]

Uh Huh....Death is the kingdom even though Gd is the Gd of Life... Choose the cross or the way of the cross even though if anyone cares to look at the symbol of the cross it represents Death....The Fact that Hades takes one third of the stars(people) in Heaven(earth) with him should be a real eye opener considering christianity makes up one third of mankind in all its forms.... Teachings either provide a bitter fruit(death) or a sweet fruit(life) it is up too each and everyone to figure out for themselves which TREE is which and whether they can walk around with the NAKED truth or must clothe themselves with the Clothed lie.... Now that the emperor(Jesus) has been exposed and its clothing(the new testament and any other books or pages) looked at properly it should be a no brainer but hey sometimes ones ego will get in the way of admitting it to say the least...

Dear shimon sorry but it makes no sense
that we would need to become like little children to enter DEATH?
the Kingdom of God is like heavenly peace.
We need to be like children to live in PEACE.

I am trying very hard to make sense of your obsession that the kingdom means death.
What I understand is you must die and be reborn. But this is spiritual change
where the old ways die and "ALL THINGS ARE MADE NEW IN CHRIST" REV 4

The focus is on letting go of our fear of death and change, so we receive rebirth in the Kingdom of God.
That is the closest I can come of agreeing with you that death is involved, but it is not the focus "in itself."

 

[shimon]

Wow what are you talking about... I have no obsession with death it is Christianity's false teachings that does... Teachings that place the king of death your Jesus as the way to heaven even though heaven is on earth and not some fantasy gardens in the sky where Tatoo runs around and says to his master ze plane ze plane....That is an old Roman trick to keep the slaves happy in their lot in life that way they don't rebel against their masters and just keep doing what the ones in charge want them to do like good servents and serfs and today work in the service industry in servitude and bondage for low wages like slaves did. Nothing has changed for most people they just don't know it or get it... We are born we are given a gift of life and we are to live it to the fullest that is it.. What is this we are to be like little children to enter death that is nonsense....Peace will come from the kingdom that is forming in Israel and will move out and eventually encompass the whole world after the false religions and teachings are held up to the light( truth and knowledge) and found to be utter nonsense as they teach death as a reward instead of life and living and bettering oneself in the here and the now...Israel will grow and prosper... Jerusalem will become the city of peace and the temple will be the focal point and all peoples will eventually acknowledge that... That is where the kingdom is not in some fantasy supplied by Rome and her legion of minions... Funny how they control all your minds like that poor elephant I used as an apology even though all of you are easily strong enough to break their chains and bonds on you...

 

[HaShev]

Wow, that's funny.
It's the way you wrote that Shimon, that it seemed to her reading it fast, that you were regarding the kingdom in death.
It's very telling and proves my point about being very cautious with words, not assuming they know where you are coming from, being very explanatory or people get confused fast. It's funny because they can read the kingdom of death in your commentary about "their" teachings yet OBLIVIOUS to that when blatantly told that from the Jesus character and gospels.
So maybe Joyce Meyer is not a liar and just Oblivious and a selective or poor reader or poor at comprehending what she reads.
Prrhaps it's a mechanism triggered by programming to see Jesus in one light and blocking out what is said when it doesn't come close to that IMAGE they have of him or the perception of teachings he became the face of. Aka turning a blind eye to the true nature. This would explain why they never see his sins, lies, hatred, destructive comments displayed in the verses.
I wonder if study of cults and how they are programed can shed light on this, because they also block out the bad nature of their cult leaders, like when followers turned a blind eye to Jim Jones or David Koresh's behavior. We could see the evil, but they had a blind eye to it because they were emersed in a false image and hope instead of seeing what was in front of them without such veil.

 

[hadit]

I'm going with you presenting false choices.

Dear hadit
They may be false to you but true for someone else.
Like explaining quantum physics may not work for me but might be perfect for someone else.

Let me give you one example of something JM was teaching:

She compared God's love and grace to the loving
parent who had warned their kids over and over
to stay away from trouble and don't go anywhere without asking permission
so the parents can watch out for them.

But the kids disobeyed and went out anyway and got in trouble with
the neighborhood bully coming after them.

Does the parent/God stop and hold the kid responsible for disobeying?
Any parent would protect that kid from the bully first, and go admonish them later.

So she used this story to explain that God does not reject and judge
and refuse to help us just because we disobeyed and did wrong.
We still face those consequences though God will protect us
when we ask.

So that's a good example of her philosophy and balancing the sides
and still having accountability.

is that false teaching? I think it works for people who
understand parenting. hadit

You are aware, are you not, that the choices presented were: Is "Joyce Meyers an outright liar or just blind and oblivious to the actual gospel teaching opposing the Creator and the creation"?

I don't think either of them are true. In fact, the second one is based on a falsehood. Joyce Meyer is not incorrect.

Explain why, because both your posts are blanket subjective opinions without reasons or subtance in rebuttle.

Which brings up a whole other discussion as to how easy non descriptive commentary can be missread and missinterpreted, which is why I'm always thoroughly explainatory (using parenthesis to define or eleviate confusion). Was Jesus (the writers of) obviously too vague? Yes, which he (writers) himself (themselves) denounces then does himself anyway(lies).
Example: John 18:19-21 The high priest then asked Jesus about his disciples, and about his doctrine. Jesus answered him:
"I spoke in openness to the world;
I always taught in the synagogue and the temple, where the Jews always come;
and I have said nothing in secret.
however we see:
Mark 4:10-12
But, when he was in private... the twelve asked him the meaning of the parable. And he said, "You are permitted to know the SECRETS of the kingdom of God.But to those outside, these things are said in parables,SO THAT they MAY see but not perceive, and MAY hear but not understand...
Matt 13:10-15
And the disciples came and asked, "Why do you speak to them in parables?" He answered, "Because you are permitted to know the SECRETS of the kingdom of heaven, but they are not permitted."

Why, is it because they would leave if they knew it was Hades?

That's extremely easy to understand, even to a neophyte student of Scripture. Jesus operated openly and taught openly. He also taught some things that were only for His disciples to understand AT THAT TIME. Notice that we now have the explanation of the parables He taught. IOW, there were no secret plots to overthrow Rome or the Jewish power structure of the day, only secrets about the Kingdom to be revealed at a later time. What is hard to understand about that?

1)the church who created the Jesus character knew nothing about anything.
They couldn't even get the meaning of scripture they plagiarized right.
It is why the RCC uses the blanket term "Mysteries".
2)your comment contradicts and does NOT answer those veres I left as just a small sample.
3)2 of the figures used for the Jesus myth were revolting against Rome.
Yehuda the Galilean tax revolter used for the Jesus character in Bill O'Reilly's book, who was the Galilean christ in the time of Herod and Lysanias per NT was punished (crucified) for his tax revolt by Rome in 6bc.
That was not the same as the AD era christ Theudas by the Jordan crucified by Rome for his political revolt in 45 ad who's apostles were Martyrs and revolutionaries against Rome.
4)the church made it clear that the God of this world was their adversary(stated that in the NT) and that way they claim death as theirs, so they can promise soldiers and donators a false promise and hope of paradise in death, unsuspectedly.
That way they get willing dupes who
willingly die for their kings & leaders, who Shimon pointed out are not in any rush to enter paradise in death themselves.

5) The kingdom is of the messenger of Life(blessing) not Jesus the messenger of death(the curse).
source: “War Scroll” (4Q471)
Where in verse XVII, it says, “God will send eternal bliss by the might of the Princely Angel of "the Kingdom of Michael".
He will enlighten with joy the children of Israel.

Yeshua is Lord. He will resolve your confusion.

 

[hobelim]

Jerusalem will become the city of peace and the temple will be the focal point and all peoples will eventually acknowledge that... That is where the kingdom is.....

The kingdom of God is not a physical place anymore than the sanctuary of God is a man made Temple.

The kingdom of Heaven and dwelling place of God is the realm of conscious life within the boundaries provided by divine law that clearly define its dimensions.

Unless you conform to the deeper implications of divine law, enter by the narrow gate, you will never enter the kingdom of Heaven wherever you live, whatever religion you happen to have been born into, whether you are male or female, rich or poor, jew or gentile..

 

[hobelim]

it makes no sense
that we would need to become like little children to enter DEATH?
the Kingdom of God is like heavenly peace.
We need to be like children to live in PEACE.

Dear emilynghiem, We need to be like children to live in peace? Seriously? Do you have your own children? Have you ever tried to manage a room full of children? Ever read the Lord of the flies?

When Jesus said that you must be born again and become like little children to enter the kingdom of God he was just saying that one has to trash everything they were taught about religion and start over and read the Torah like they are a little child reading a fairy tale for the first time looking for a hidden teaching intended for children.

 

[shimon]

Hobe I said the Kingdom would spread out from Israel there needs to be a focal point so the proper teachings can come from somewhere that is why the temple is needed so that there is a platform or a place to emulate and show others the way. Every other religion whether they be false or not has their own platform... Christianity has Rome... Islam has Mecca and Medina and others have their own places or platform denying israel their own is nonsense unless the others have something to hide....Hmmmm...So that their rebellion against as you put it divine law will end... I already know your views regarding animal sacrifice and I am not interested in rejoining that discussion others can read all about it by referencing our previous posts....

 

[HaShev]

Dear hadit
They may be false to you but true for someone else.
Like explaining quantum physics may not work for me but might be perfect for someone else.

Let me give you one example of something JM was teaching:

She compared God's love and grace to the loving
parent who had warned their kids over and over
to stay away from trouble and don't go anywhere without asking permission
so the parents can watch out for them.

But the kids disobeyed and went out anyway and got in trouble with
the neighborhood bully coming after them.

Does the parent/God stop and hold the kid responsible for disobeying?
Any parent would protect that kid from the bully first, and go admonish them later.

So she used this story to explain that God does not reject and judge
and refuse to help us just because we disobeyed and did wrong.
We still face those consequences though God will protect us
when we ask.

So that's a good example of her philosophy and balancing the sides
and still having accountability.

is that false teaching? I think it works for people who
understand parenting. hadit

You are aware, are you not, that the choices presented were: Is "Joyce Meyers an outright liar or just blind and oblivious to the actual gospel teaching opposing the Creator and the creation"?

I don't think either of them are true. In fact, the second one is based on a falsehood. Joyce Meyer is not incorrect.

Explain why, because both your posts are blanket subjective opinions without reasons or subtance in rebuttle.

Which brings up a whole other discussion as to how easy non descriptive commentary can be missread and missinterpreted, which is why I'm always thoroughly explainatory (using parenthesis to define or eleviate confusion). Was Jesus (the writers of) obviously too vague? Yes, which he (writers) himself (themselves) denounces then does himself anyway(lies).
Example: John 18:19-21 The high priest then asked Jesus about his disciples, and about his doctrine. Jesus answered him:
"I spoke in openness to the world;
I always taught in the synagogue and the temple, where the Jews always come;
and I have said nothing in secret.
however we see:
Mark 4:10-12
But, when he was in private... the twelve asked him the meaning of the parable. And he said, "You are permitted to know the SECRETS of the kingdom of God.But to those outside, these things are said in parables,SO THAT they MAY see but not perceive, and MAY hear but not understand...
Matt 13:10-15
And the disciples came and asked, "Why do you speak to them in parables?" He answered, "Because you are permitted to know the SECRETS of the kingdom of heaven, but they are not permitted."

Why, is it because they would leave if they knew it was Hades?

That's extremely easy to understand, even to a neophyte student of Scripture. Jesus operated openly and taught openly. He also taught some things that were only for His disciples to understand AT THAT TIME. Notice that we now have the explanation of the parables He taught. IOW, there were no secret plots to overthrow Rome or the Jewish power structure of the day, only secrets about the Kingdom to be revealed at a later time. What is hard to understand about that?

1)the church who created the Jesus character knew nothing about anything.
They couldn't even get the meaning of scripture they plagiarized right.
It is why the RCC uses the blanket term "Mysteries".
2)your comment contradicts and does NOT answer those veres I left as just a small sample.
3)2 of the figures used for the Jesus myth were revolting against Rome.
Yehuda the Galilean tax revolter used for the Jesus character in Bill O'Reilly's book, who was the Galilean christ in the time of Herod and Lysanias per NT was punished (crucified) for his tax revolt by Rome in 6bc.
That was not the same as the AD era christ Theudas by the Jordan crucified by Rome for his political revolt in 45 ad who's apostles were Martyrs and revolutionaries against Rome.
4)the church made it clear that the God of this world was their adversary(stated that in the NT) and that way they claim death as theirs, so they can promise soldiers and donators a false promise and hope of paradise in death, unsuspectedly.
That way they get willing dupes who
willingly die for their kings & leaders, who Shimon pointed out are not in any rush to enter paradise in death themselves.

5) The kingdom is of the messenger of Life(blessing) not Jesus the messenger of death(the curse).
source: “War Scroll” (4Q471)
Where in verse XVII, it says, “God will send eternal bliss by the might of the Princely Angel of "the Kingdom of Michael".
He will enlighten with joy the children of Israel.

Yeshua is Lord. He will resolve your confusion.

1) there was no christ figure named Yeshua in the AD era or ever.
You might mean Yeshu son of Mary of 100bc
His mentor was Rabbi Yohoshua but Yeshu was never named Yeshua.
2)Y=H sound, That's why the Book of Joshua (Y'hoshua) is called Hosea.
3) YSHV(HaShev)=restore,return,redeem,place back.
HaSheva=redeemer,restorer
"A" prefix at the end means of God so
HaSheva can also mean=HaShev of God
or Return/Redeem/Restorer of God.

 

[emilynghiem]

it makes no sense
that we would need to become like little children to enter DEATH?
the Kingdom of God is like heavenly peace.
We need to be like children to live in PEACE.

Dear emilynghiem, We need to be like children to live in peace? Seriously? Do you have your own children? Have you ever tried to manage a room full of children? Ever read the Lord of the flies?

When Jesus said that you must be born again and become like little children to enter the kingdom of God he was just saying that one has to trash everything they were taught about religion and start over and read the Torah like they are a little child reading a fairy tale for the first time looking for a hidden teaching intended for children.

So funny hobelim
Ironies of Ironies: it is this sense of humor and good nature about life that keeps us young and alive like children.

Do you realize you just demonstrated what I said? So charming

That's all it takes sometimes. To be able to laugh and cry. Joke and play.

Exactly hobelim you exemplified it right here! If we all did that, we'd be okay. Even with a playground full of adults acting half our age....

 

[hobelim]

Hobe I said the Kingdom would spread out from Israel there needs to be a focal point so the proper teachings can come from somewhere that is why the temple is needed so that there is a platform or a place to emulate and show others the way....So that their rebellion against as you put it divine law will end... I already know your views regarding animal sacrifice and I am not interested in rejoining that discussion others can read all about it by referencing our previous posts....

The kingdom has already spread out from Israel like a net, the proper teachings have already come from the messiah. No temple required or necessary.

In fact, animal sacrifice is rebellion against the laws of God as revealed by the messiah.

 

[HaShev]

Hobe I said the Kingdom would spread out from Israel there needs to be a focal point so the proper teachings can come from somewhere that is why the temple is needed so that there is a platform or a place to emulate and show others the way....So that their rebellion against as you put it divine law will end... I already know your views regarding animal sacrifice and I am not interested in rejoining that discussion others can read all about it by referencing our previous posts....

The kingdom has already spread out from Israel like a net, the proper teachings have already come from the messiah. No temple required or necessary.

In fact, animal sacrifice is rebellion against the laws of God as revealed by the messiah.

Oh here we go again with the animal sacrifices. You keep forgetting they didn't have Refrigerators, so sharing their meat with the community was the only way not to waste food supplies and get to enjoy the feast themselves. They could share their live stock with the neighborhood one time and next time receive the feast through them, thus sharing the food they could not save in tupperware, and receive the next time(pay it forward), how hard is that to understand? They werexeach others storage of excess food) would you rather people wasting animal parts?
We have this occuring in villages all over the world. Have you not seen
Andrew Zimmern's food show where villages set an animal for the whole village to share and partake of, because they have no refrigerator and can't eat it all themselves. These communal feasts bring appreciation and togetherness for the community, relying on each to share their excess instead of wasting it.
Have you ever seen those communal feasts not be a joyous blessed event or hear him say how much it brings the community together and how appreciating he is of the sharing? How can you miss the connection that this still takes place today all over the world, but especially the areas that are still traditiobal through
LACK OF REFRIGERATION.

 

[hobelim]

Hobe I said the Kingdom would spread out from Israel there needs to be a focal point so the proper teachings can come from somewhere that is why the temple is needed so that there is a platform or a place to emulate and show others the way....So that their rebellion against as you put it divine law will end... I already know your views regarding animal sacrifice and I am not interested in rejoining that discussion others can read all about it by referencing our previous posts....

The kingdom has already spread out from Israel like a net, the proper teachings have already come from the messiah. No temple required or necessary.

In fact, animal sacrifice is rebellion against the laws of God as revealed by the messiah.

Oh here we go again with the animal sacrifices. You keep forgetting they didn't have Refrigerators, so sharing their meat with the community was the only way not to waste food supplies and get to enjoy the feast themselves. They could share their live stock with the neighborhood one time and next time receive the feast through them, thus sharing the food they could not save in tupperware, and receive the next time(pay it forward), how hard is that to understand? They werexeach others storage of excess food) would you rather people wasting animal parts?
We have this occuring in villages all over the world. Have you not seen
Andrew Zimmern's food show where villages set an animal for the whole village to share and partake of, because they have no refrigerator and can't eat it all themselves. These communal feasts bring appreciation and togetherness for the community, relying on each to share their excess instead of wasting it.
Have you ever seen those communal feasts not be a joyous blessed event or hear him say how much it brings the community together and how appreciating he is of the sharing? How can you miss the connection that this still takes place today all over the world, but especially the areas that are still traditiobal through
LACK OF REFRIGERATION.

So the stated reason given in scripture , the expiation of sin, is really wrong and the real reason for constructing a Temple and ritual sacrifice is really LACK OF REFRIGERATION? LOL...You don't think its possible that they, like you, just misunderstood the meaning of the words subjects that are not necessarily directly connected to the literal meaning of the words used?

There's just a few problems with your theory that makes it impossible to be true.


If lack of refrigeration was the real purpose for the whole charade about killing farm animal for the expiation of sin in the name of God, then why would you want to be the high priest of an animal slaughterhouse when just about everyone in Israel has their own refrigerator?

Wouldn't that make the temple and the priesthood and the laws that you think are about killing farm animals irrelevant and obsolete in the modern world?

What does the T.V. say?

 

[shimon]

Nonsense Hobe the teachings have been corrupted and Everyman walks around doing what is right in their own eyes.. If there is no central authority like the temple where ideals can be discussed and decided then there is no Supreme Court to make a final decision.. What messiah are you talking about Hobe there were many messiah in Judiasm.. Kings , prophets anointed ones to name a few... That view of yours is one of the corrupted points your hero was no messiah just a Roman joke....

 

[hobelim]

Nonsense Hobe the teachings have been corrupted and Everyman walks around doing what is right in their own eyes.. If there is no central authority like the temple where ideals can be discussed and decided then there is no Supreme Court to make a final decision.. What messiah are you talking about Hobe there were many messiah in Judiasm.. Kings , prophets anointed ones to name a few... That view of yours is one of the corrupted points your hero was no messiah just a Roman joke....

As it is says in your own scriptures, every man shall rest under the shade of their own fig tree. I have no problem with that and see no need for any body of hypocrites and lying frauds to decide for everyone else how to interpret that which need no further interpretation.


And the Roman joke was that that the teachings of your messiah and only hope for peace in this world and the keys to eternal life was hidden and buried under a mountain of blasphemy.

 

[shimon]

Resting under the fig tree means they will have rest from being chased from country to country or place to place.. You know the story of Job where he is given no rest... This is the story of my people who were chased from place to place.. It just means at the time of the final redemption they will be able eveyman to rest not only from persecution but from work as well and all their labours..
Only in our times or the not to distant future will this be available... A true sabbath.. You understand the poetic nature of the Hebrews many do not and only see fables and stories...The Romans did a good job but eventually their con is removed even though it has been a long time coming but the emperor will be unclothed and their nakedness seen by all...

 

[emilynghiem]

Nonsense Hobe the teachings have been corrupted and Everyman walks around doing what is right in their own eyes.. If there is no central authority like the temple where ideals can be discussed and decided then there is no Supreme Court to make a final decision.. What messiah are you talking about Hobe there were many messiah in Judiasm.. Kings , prophets anointed ones to name a few... That view of yours is one of the corrupted points your hero was no messiah just a Roman joke....

Dear shimon the universal Messiah or Message is of Divine peace and justice. God's unifying truth love will and laws embodied in man to reconcile our individual will with God's perfect will.

This embracing and receiving of justice by perfect love happens for each person on God's timing.

That's what Jesus in the Bible represents: the reconciliation of man and God in harmony and truth that sets us free from suffering and strife from sins separating us from God.

If you look up Restorative Justice, that is the closest real world equivalent of explaining the meaning of Christ Jesus in secular terms even an atheist can understand. The message is That Universal where everyone will receive.

You are right there has been a whole history of corruption from material greed and selfishness . The solution to this is divine forgiveness so we may receive correction and healing, restoring good faith relations and good will or God's will for all humanity as one body or family in the Kingdom of God bringing heavenly peace on Earth.

If you want to see a good witness to the power of forgiveness and healing In Christ Jesus, look up Peter Loth who teaches how this grace fulfills both his path as a Jewish believer, and all paths for all people healed and United by divine forgiveness and grace.

When we all receive and embody this Message. That is the Messiah that comes for all humanity to establish Gods universal truth justice and peace. Many people have already received this universal message and live in spiritual peace or the kingdom of God, and it will take all humanity doing the same for this to be fully manifested worldwide and beyond, on all levels inside and out, individually and globally, on earth as it is in heaven. May God's will be done and received with perfect grace, healing and comfort for all.

 

[shimon]

Nonsense Hobe the teachings have been corrupted and Everyman walks around doing what is right in their own eyes.. If there is no central authority like the temple where ideals can be discussed and decided then there is no Supreme Court to make a final decision.. What messiah are you talking about Hobe there were many messiah in Judiasm.. Kings , prophets anointed ones to name a few... That view of yours is one of the corrupted points your hero was no messiah just a Roman joke....

Dear shimon the universal Messiah or Message is of Divine peace and justice. God's unifying truth love will and laws embodied in man to reconcile our individual will with God's perfect will.

This embracing and receiving of justice by perfect love happens for each person on God's timing.

That's what Jesus in the Bible represents: the reconciliation of man and God in harmony and truth that sets us free from suffering and strife from sins separating us from God.

If you look up Restorative Justice, that is the closest real world equivalent of explaining the meaning of Christ Jesus in secular terms even an atheist can understand. The message is That Universal where everyone will receive.

You are right there has been a whole history of corruption from material greed and selfishness . The solution to this is divine forgiveness so we may receive correction and healing, restoring good faith relations and good will or God's will for all humanity as one body or family in the Kingdom of God bringing heavenly peace on Earth.

If you want to see a good witness to the power of forgiveness and healing In Christ Jesus, look up Peter Loth who teaches how this grace fulfills both his path as a Jewish believer, and all paths for all people healed and United by divine forgiveness and grace.

When we all receive and embody this Message. That is the Messiah that comes for all humanity to establish Gods universal truth justice and peace. Many people have already received this universal message and live in spiritual peace or the kingdom of God, and it will take all humanity doing the same for this to be fully manifested worldwide and beyond, on all levels inside and out, individually and globally, on earth as it is in heaven. May God's will be done and received with perfect grace, healing and comfort for all.

With all due respect The Jesus you speak of are just empty words written on a scroll or paper.. He does the opposite of what you preach and teach...He takes people away from Gd... You realize that Jesus is a figment of the writers of the new testaments mind and was given breath and life in words... This person that you adore never existed and was the amalgamation of many people their lives and the myths and fables associated with him.... The Jesus you speak of is the Logos in the books own words.It means he is The WORD nothing more nothing less.... Mere ink on a story that Christians change and rehash and rechange whenever they feel the need that is why you have so many many versions so you can change your lying word( your Jesus) to fit whatever is needed...Prince of Peace indeed... The faith in him and his fables have brought peace alright but not the peace you preach but has split the world into many PIECES and factions each one trying to control and fight with one another as he said in your book so eloquently he brought division father against son son against mother brother against brother... Great job is you asked me of bringing PIECE.... Great indeed....

 

[emilynghiem]

Nonsense Hobe the teachings have been corrupted and Everyman walks around doing what is right in their own eyes.. If there is no central authority like the temple where ideals can be discussed and decided then there is no Supreme Court to make a final decision.. What messiah are you talking about Hobe there were many messiah in Judiasm.. Kings , prophets anointed ones to name a few... That view of yours is one of the corrupted points your hero was no messiah just a Roman joke....

Dear shimon the universal Messiah or Message is of Divine peace and justice. God's unifying truth love will and laws embodied in man to reconcile our individual will with God's perfect will.

This embracing and receiving of justice by perfect love happens for each person on God's timing.

That's what Jesus in the Bible represents: the reconciliation of man and God in harmony and truth that sets us free from suffering and strife from sins separating us from God.

If you look up Restorative Justice, that is the closest real world equivalent of explaining the meaning of Christ Jesus in secular terms even an atheist can understand. The message is That Universal where everyone will receive.

You are right there has been a whole history of corruption from material greed and selfishness . The solution to this is divine forgiveness so we may receive correction and healing, restoring good faith relations and good will or God's will for all humanity as one body or family in the Kingdom of God bringing heavenly peace on Earth.

If you want to see a good witness to the power of forgiveness and healing In Christ Jesus, look up Peter Loth who teaches how this grace fulfills both his path as a Jewish believer, and all paths for all people healed and United by divine forgiveness and grace.

When we all receive and embody this Message. That is the Messiah that comes for all humanity to establish Gods universal truth justice and peace. Many people have already received this universal message and live in spiritual peace or the kingdom of God, and it will take all humanity doing the same for this to be fully manifested worldwide and beyond, on all levels inside and out, individually and globally, on earth as it is in heaven. May God's will be done and received with perfect grace, healing and comfort for all.

With all due respect The Jesus you speak of are just empty words written on a scroll or paper.. He does the opposite of what you preach and teach...He takes people away from Gd... You realize that Jesus is a figment of the writers of the new testaments mind and was given breath and life in words... This person that you adore never existed and was the amalgamation of many people their lives and the myths and fables associated with him.... The Jesus you speak of is the Logos in the books own words.It means he is The WORD nothing more nothing less.... Mere ink on a story that Christians change and rehash and rechange whenever they feel the need that is why you have so many many versions so you can change your lying word( your Jesus) to fit whatever is needed...Prince of Peace indeed... The faith in him and his fables have brought peace alright but not the peace you preach but has split the world into many PIECES and factions each one trying to control and fight with one another as he said in your book so eloquently he brought division father against son son against mother brother against brother... Great job is you asked me of bringing PIECE.... Great indeed....

Dear shimon
It depends how Jesus is taught.
Again, I have explained as teaching Justice in two ways:
Retributive Justice
and
Restorative Justice.

I find that Restorative Justice unites.
You are saying that Jesus divides,
which is retributive justice to judge and reject.
You are doing this now, so you are part of that way of teaching.
Divisive.

I keep including you but you keep rejecting.

So you are proof of how the division happens.
Don't blame it on Jesus if you are doing that yourself.

My way of teaching is to include BOTH ways:
use retributive justice for people who live that way, like bullies,
and it takes a bigger bully to confront the other bullies to give
them a taste of their own medicine
use Restorative Justice for those who live by justice with mercy

So this way includes and explains BOTH ways.

Your way only points to the judgment/rejection/division type.
If you are teaching that, then you are doing the very thing
you say Jesus is used to teach! Is that what you really want?
Then keep doing what you are doing and teaching this way,
and you will be right, that this keeps division going. As you are doing yourself.

 

[shimon]

Nonsense Hobe the teachings have been corrupted and Everyman walks around doing what is right in their own eyes.. If there is no central authority like the temple where ideals can be discussed and decided then there is no Supreme Court to make a final decision.. What messiah are you talking about Hobe there were many messiah in Judiasm.. Kings , prophets anointed ones to name a few... That view of yours is one of the corrupted points your hero was no messiah just a Roman joke....

Dear shimon the universal Messiah or Message is of Divine peace and justice. God's unifying truth love will and laws embodied in man to reconcile our individual will with God's perfect will.

This embracing and receiving of justice by perfect love happens for each person on God's timing.

That's what Jesus in the Bible represents: the reconciliation of man and God in harmony and truth that sets us free from suffering and strife from sins separating us from God.

If you look up Restorative Justice, that is the closest real world equivalent of explaining the meaning of Christ Jesus in secular terms even an atheist can understand. The message is That Universal where everyone will receive.

You are right there has been a whole history of corruption from material greed and selfishness . The solution to this is divine forgiveness so we may receive correction and healing, restoring good faith relations and good will or God's will for all humanity as one body or family in the Kingdom of God bringing heavenly peace on Earth.

If you want to see a good witness to the power of forgiveness and healing In Christ Jesus, look up Peter Loth who teaches how this grace fulfills both his path as a Jewish believer, and all paths for all people healed and United by divine forgiveness and grace.

When we all receive and embody this Message. That is the Messiah that comes for all humanity to establish Gods universal truth justice and peace. Many people have already received this universal message and live in spiritual peace or the kingdom of God, and it will take all humanity doing the same for this to be fully manifested worldwide and beyond, on all levels inside and out, individually and globally, on earth as it is in heaven. May God's will be done and received with perfect grace, healing and comfort for all.

With all due respect The Jesus you speak of are just empty words written on a scroll or paper.. He does the opposite of what you preach and teach...He takes people away from Gd... You realize that Jesus is a figment of the writers of the new testaments mind and was given breath and life in words... This person that you adore never existed and was the amalgamation of many people their lives and the myths and fables associated with him.... The Jesus you speak of is the Logos in the books own words.It means he is The WORD nothing more nothing less.... Mere ink on a story that Christians change and rehash and rechange whenever they feel the need that is why you have so many many versions so you can change your lying word( your Jesus) to fit whatever is needed...Prince of Peace indeed... The faith in him and his fables have brought peace alright but not the peace you preach but has split the world into many PIECES and factions each one trying to control and fight with one another as he said in your book so eloquently he brought division father against son son against mother brother against brother... Great job is you asked me of bringing PIECE.... Great indeed....

Dear shimon
It depends how Jesus is taught.
Again, I have explained as teaching Justice in two ways:
Retributive Justice
and
Restorative Justice.

I find that Restorative Justice unites.
You are saying that Jesus divides,
which is retributive justice to judge and reject.
You are doing this now, so you are part of that way of teaching.
Divisive.

I keep including you but you keep rejecting.

So you are proof of how the division happens.
Don't blame it on Jesus if you are doing that yourself.

My way of teaching is to include BOTH ways:
use retributive justice for people who live that way, like bullies,
and it takes a bigger bully to confront the other bullies to give
them a taste of their own medicine
use Restorative Justice for those who live by justice with mercy

So this way includes and explains BOTH ways.

Your way only points to the judgment/rejection/division type.
If you are teaching that, then you are doing the very thing
you say Jesus is used to teach! Is that what you really want?
Then keep doing what you are doing and teaching this way,
and you will be right, that this keeps division going. As you are doing yourself.

By your definition then all the prophets of Israel that stood up against their fellow Israelites and the authorities were bullies and were teaching division even though most of the people were united against them... Justice is a double edged sword unfortunately even though it is meant to be Justice for all I have found it is limited to a select group meaning JUST US.... So the majority of people are judged harshly and condemned while the ones in the group hiercharchy are treated with kids gloves and get a free get out of jail card with a little slap on the wrist.... If people are following a wrong path and are not given the option of following a correct path does not the sin of not showing then fall at the feet of those who know the truth... At the very least it should be pointed out to them so that they are given all the information to make an educated choice... Is that being divisive according to your definition... If 20 divided by 4 equals 5 and I see that but you teach the answer is 7 either knowingly or unknowingly is it not my place to point that out to you and those you teach... Or should I just let you stay in your darkness and laugh at you behind your back....Your definition is narrow there are many grey areas in life and square pegs do not fit into round holes unless they are forced to bow down to the majority rules because some Johnny come later declared they were being divisive... You want Restorative " Justice " then people must swallow their pride and fess up and admit when they are wrong... We call that Teshuva.... Numbers don't matter only the truth does....