Is it time for Universal Healthcare....and can it be done?

[Cecilie1200]

First off, for those that know me...I am a conservative.
I do ask the question in sincerity.
Last year with health premiums, and healthcare bills, my wife and I spent $7,040 for the two of us.
Then add in the employers portion of premium and that totals up to roughly $11,000.
Even with that, we are well below the average cost the average American pays.
So, would I pay out say... $600 a month in taxes, and my employer in lieu of paying premiums, pay another $400 a month? Instead of paying an insurer?
Yes, yes I would.
But only if the care was equally as good.
And would it be?
How would we, as a nation, pay for the bums and lazy asses who won't work?
Should a "health tax" be income specific? So someone who makes $250,000 a year would pay a great deal more than a $50,000 a year person? Would that work?

One thing is for certain. The current system is not working well. We are paying more and more and more to insurers who are raising deductibles and increasing premiums while covering less.
What fix is there?

I agree.
you gonna pay for everyone, right?

More regulation is needed and more competition between insurers

No,insurers need to have less control over the health care system.

Insurers had adjusted very well to the ACA after 3 years and were even giving new benefits. This Administration is so vindictive they only want to destroy. The Republican Congress has had years to come up with a plan. They have zilch except to destroy what protections people have. They could have worked on fixing problems but they only tear down.

"Insurers need to have less control over health care. That's why we need a system that gives them even more control!"

Brilliant.

 

[mikegriffith1]

A few days ago, Trump signed an executive order that will insure an additional 1 to 2 million people. He created a freedom option that, among other things, (1) will enable the seriously ill to get health insurance and to get it cheaper than they could get it before and (2) will expand consumer protections. There are other benefits as well.

Obamacare is now optional

 

[dblack]

A few days ago, Trump signed an executive order that will insure an additional 1 to 2 million people. He created a freedom option that, among other things, (1) will enable the seriously ill to get health insurance and to get it cheaper than they could get it before and (2) will expand consumer protections. There are other benefits as well.

Obamacare is now optional

Nope. It's all still there. Just tweaked for the time being. Republicans have no intention of repealing it. Smoke and mirrors.

 

[healthmyths]

First off, for those that know me...I am a conservative.
I do ask the question in sincerity.
Last year with health premiums, and healthcare bills, my wife and I spent $7,040 for the two of us.
Then add in the employers portion of premium and that totals up to roughly $11,000.
Even with that, we are well below the average cost the average American pays.
So, would I pay out say... $600 a month in taxes, and my employer in lieu of paying premiums, pay another $400 a month? Instead of paying an insurer?
Yes, yes I would.
But only if the care was equally as good.
And would it be?
How would we, as a nation, pay for the bums and lazy asses who won't work?
Should a "health tax" be income specific? So someone who makes $250,000 a year would pay a great deal more than a $50,000 a year person? Would that work?

One thing is for certain. The current system is not working well. We are paying more and more and more to insurers who are raising deductibles and increasing premiums while covering less.
What fix is there?

There are several factors involved in health care costs WHICH I"M very qualified (hence my "healthmyths" name) and I can share several factors that cause health care cost as a share of the nation's Gross Domestic Product, health spending accounted for 17.9 percent.Jan 8, 2018 or
Historical - Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services

According to physicians 26% of the $3.3 Trillion health care costs comes from this:
Remember I'm not saying it.. the people that practice it say it and the proof is a law passed in 1946 called Tort Reform Act.
Read very carefully how physicians under contract with the Federal government can't be sued and hence they don't practice defensive medicine as much.

Now if you want to complain about health care costs be so high... START HERE.. because until lawyers who average AVERAGE!! salary of $139,880 doesn't come from
resolving 96% of malpractice lawsuits out of court as it is "CHEAPER" for insurance companies to simply raise premiums we'll see that.

Now for another contribution to HIGH HEALTH CARE COSTS... LOOK up EMTALA a Federal law passed in 1986.
A clue... why does a hospital charge $3,000 for a CAT scan that the actual cost of doing a CAT scan is less than $100? Again look to EMTALA!

I'll expound on that later if you want. Remember I don't make these statements up. I have LINKS.

View attachment 208438

I agree that we need tort reform and limits on medical liability claims.

But, there was nothing wrong with medical care before obozocare, no one was turned away and those of us who paid covered those who did not or could not. Employer subsidized medical insurance worked for everyone, employees and employers.

Socialized medicine, not matter what you call if, is not "free" and will result is long wait times for routine procedures, ask any Brit or Canadian. It will also place a huge financial burden on the taxpayers of the USA and will rapidly increase our national debt.

I understand that you want to pay less, so do I. but the plans you want will cost both of us more than what we have today and the level of care will be much worse.

We do need some cost controls on big pharma and all types of medical care. I don't like the government telling anyone what they can charge for their products and services, but this may be the one case what that would be a good thing.

Obama wanted to destroy the 1,400 insurance companies that employ 450,000 people and pay over $100 billion a year in Federal/state AND Local property taxes..
Remember he favored "single payer"...
He predicated all this on a gigantic lie which NOT ONE person has yet to argue the points I made here.
Look there never were 46 million uninsured Americans!

NOTE the below shows the architect of ACA agreed with the 2nd point... 14 million were already eligible BEFORE ACA for Medicaid!

 

[healthmyths]

A few days ago, Trump signed an executive order that will insure an additional 1 to 2 million people. He created a freedom option that, among other things, (1) will enable the seriously ill to get health insurance and to get it cheaper than they could get it before and (2) will expand consumer protections. There are other benefits as well.

Obamacare is now optional

And ANOTHER gigantic LIE by Obama
The Obama administration even put out a report titled
“At Risk: Pre-Existing Conditions Could Affect 1 in 2 Americans: 129 Million Could Be Denied Affordable Coverage Without Health Reform."

How can that be when 49% of all Americans have group insurance... which excludes "pre-existing conditions"?
35% have Medicaid/Medicare./Other public .. added together that's 84% of the population....
Health Insurance Coverage of the Total Population
84% of All Americans have some type of insurance that where "pre-existing condition" is not an issue!

Proof?
A total of LESS THEN 1.5 million Americans who were denied health insurance or paid higher premiums due to pre-existing conditions.
Obama's Pre-existing Conditions Whopper

Proof? Finally even with the ACA supposedly eliminated the "pre-existing conditions"???
Now under Obamacare HOW many people of those millions with Pre-existing conditions were covered?
Pre-existing Condition Insurance Program (PCIP) was operational in all 50 states by the fall of 2010.
By late 2012, just over 100,000 individuals were enrolled and program expenses had consumed nearly half of the $5 billion appropriation.
High-Risk Pools For Uninsurable Individuals

Where were the 129 million???

 

[healthmyths]

As I have now and in the past repeatedly showed the enormity of Obama's lies..."46 million uninsured.." "over half of all Americans have pre-existing"...EMTALA causing hospitals to charge $3,000 for CAT scan that costs less the $100"... all these "MYTHS" that have CAUSED the so-called "health care crisis" debunked!

 

[debbiedowner]

The chief advocate in this thread said this about Doctor's salaries under universal healthcare. This is why the left must be destroyed... "Under socialized healthcare their salaries would be determined by the system. If they didn't like it, too bad. If they want have a license to practice then they better accept what the system gives them."

Their salaries are determined now by the groups they are part of and just maybe we would get doctor's who are in it to actually help patients instead of the money.

Do you have an example of that LOL?

ACA.. It was billed as "we the people" reigning in the insurance companies. But in fact, it was the opposite. It was the insurance industry reigning in its customers - even forcing the unwilling to become customers.

It was also the first time the the government got to regulate their spending. They had to cut their spending on non Healthcare from 27% to 20%, Etc. Of course it was only the beginning of regulation and tinkering, just like every other country keeps tinkering. Of course the scumbag GOP is bought by big business and Wants no regulation. What is your excuse? I know brainwashed....

You Dem's went it alone, passed Obamacare all by yourself while telling the rest of the country to **** off. Don't pretend that we don't know who you people are because we do, that's why we defeated you at the polls.

Actually Democrats tried to get Republicans involved wasting a lot of time the God damn assholes.... In fact it's a goddamn GOP plan supposedly.... Obviously they won't do anything LOL

Get involved in the Dem 2,000 plus page Obamacare fiasco? We were smart enough to keep clear of that giant turd. It cost Dem's the House, Senate, and White House and now Obamacare is falling apart so it was all for nothing.

And as it falls apart it keeps costing you more, more and more money. Such fools.

 

[Pop23]

When we stop the insanity of looking at Doctors like they were Gods and quit allowing ourselves to be treated as cash flow this stupidity will stop.

Last trip I took to the Doctor I asked flat out what my cost would be. When he couldn’t answer I told him, I’ll pay you $200 period and in cash. Period

Took care of it.

 

[debbiedowner]

Why are you paying that much money if you are on Medicare? Have you checked Medicare Advantage plans?

His figures are a tad off but I believe he's talking about the premium for Part B. The higher amounts are what higher income people pay.

 

[healthmyths]

When we stop the insanity of looking at Doctors like they were Gods and quit allowing ourselves to be treated as cash flow this stupidity will stop.

Last trip I took to the Doctor I asked flat out what my cost would be. When he couldn’t answer I told him, I’ll pay you $200 period and in cash. Period

Took care of it.

What you are illustrating is the COSTS of practicing medicine paid for by others and not YOU!
A) If you had to pay out of your pocket office visits would you be going to the doctor for a splinter in your finger?
B) Would you be doing dumb ass stunts such as these or let your kids do them?

C) Why do you think insurance companies pay hospitals $3,000 for a CAT scan that costs less than $100 to perform? CHECK OUT EMTALA!
D) Why do you think doctors agree nearly $800 billion a year in wasted medical tests, etc... all because they fear being sued.

These idiotic stunts, idiotic attitude..."hey I've got insurance..." all contribute to what you complained about!

 

[debbiedowner]

A few days ago, Trump signed an executive order that will insure an additional 1 to 2 million people. He created a freedom option that, among other things, (1) will enable the seriously ill to get health insurance and to get it cheaper than they could get it before and (2) will expand consumer protections. There are other benefits as well.

Obamacare is now optional

If you're talking about short term plans they are not going to insure someone seriously ill, they are medically underwritten and cover no pre x. When you have a claim they will go back in your history and find someway not to pay your claim, but good luck with those plans.

 

[dblack]

A few days ago, Trump signed an executive order that will insure an additional 1 to 2 million people. He created a freedom option that, among other things, (1) will enable the seriously ill to get health insurance and to get it cheaper than they could get it before and (2) will expand consumer protections. There are other benefits as well.

Obamacare is now optional

If you're talking about short term plans they are not going to insure someone seriously ill, they are medically underwritten and cover no pre x. When you have a claim they will go back in your history and find someway not to pay your claim, but good luck with those plans.

So, normal insurance then?

 

[debbiedowner]

When we stop the insanity of looking at Doctors like they were Gods and quit allowing ourselves to be treated as cash flow this stupidity will stop.

Last trip I took to the Doctor I asked flat out what my cost would be. When he couldn’t answer I told him, I’ll pay you $200 period and in cash. Period

Took care of it.

What you are illustrating is the COSTS of practicing medicine paid for by others and not YOU!
A) If you had to pay out of your pocket office visits would you be going to the doctor for a splinter in your finger?
B) Would you be doing dumb ass stunts such as these or let your kids do them?
View attachment 208457
C) Why do you think insurance companies pay hospitals $3,000 for a CAT scan that costs less than $100 to perform? CHECK OUT EMTALA!
D) Why do you think doctors agree nearly $800 billion a year in wasted medical tests, etc... all because they fear being sued.

These idiotic stunts, idiotic attitude..."hey I've got insurance..." all contribute to what you complained about!

Insurance companies don't pay hospitals $3,000 for CT scan, shit after it's discounted down they are lucky to get $800. I had an MRI a few weeks back, retail $3500, allowed amount $336.00, my copay $40.00

 

[debbiedowner]

A few days ago, Trump signed an executive order that will insure an additional 1 to 2 million people. He created a freedom option that, among other things, (1) will enable the seriously ill to get health insurance and to get it cheaper than they could get it before and (2) will expand consumer protections. There are other benefits as well.

Obamacare is now optional

If you're talking about short term plans they are not going to insure someone seriously ill, they are medically underwritten and cover no pre x. When you have a claim they will go back in your history and find someway not to pay your claim, but good luck with those plans.

So, normal insurance then?

They are only for the complete healthy person that walks on water, but if you fall down the stairs after it's effective it may pay.

 

[healthmyths]

Why are you paying that much money if you are on Medicare? Have you checked Medicare Advantage plans?

MaryAnne11 do you know the difference between Medicare and Medicare Advantage Plans because it doesn't seem like you do.

A) Medicare traditional Fee for service means as a Medicare beneficiary you pay the 20% that Medicare won't like for a doctor office visit.
B) Medicare Advantage (MA) Plans are where the MA signs a contract to pay all health care expenses for a Medicare beneficiary if Medicare agrees to pay the MA $800/month.

There are over 607 MA plans and most are for profit health insurance companies that contract with Medicare. Again I KNOW what I'm talking about.

For more details: https://www.medicare.gov/Pubs/pdf/11474.pdf

 

[dblack]

A few days ago, Trump signed an executive order that will insure an additional 1 to 2 million people. He created a freedom option that, among other things, (1) will enable the seriously ill to get health insurance and to get it cheaper than they could get it before and (2) will expand consumer protections. There are other benefits as well.

Obamacare is now optional

If you're talking about short term plans they are not going to insure someone seriously ill, they are medically underwritten and cover no pre x. When you have a claim they will go back in your history and find someway not to pay your claim, but good luck with those plans.

So, normal insurance then?

They are only for the complete healthy person that walks on water, but if you fall down the stairs after it's effective it may pay.

Well, you're exaggerating, but yeah. That's the way insurance works. You all are trying to convert it into a club you join to score free health care. It's completely delusional, but that's the fantasy you're chasing. It won't work.

 

[healthmyths]

When we stop the insanity of looking at Doctors like they were Gods and quit allowing ourselves to be treated as cash flow this stupidity will stop.

Last trip I took to the Doctor I asked flat out what my cost would be. When he couldn’t answer I told him, I’ll pay you $200 period and in cash. Period

Took care of it.

What you are illustrating is the COSTS of practicing medicine paid for by others and not YOU!
A) If you had to pay out of your pocket office visits would you be going to the doctor for a splinter in your finger?
B) Would you be doing dumb ass stunts such as these or let your kids do them?
View attachment 208457
C) Why do you think insurance companies pay hospitals $3,000 for a CAT scan that costs less than $100 to perform? CHECK OUT EMTALA!
D) Why do you think doctors agree nearly $800 billion a year in wasted medical tests, etc... all because they fear being sued.

These idiotic stunts, idiotic attitude..."hey I've got insurance..." all contribute to what you complained about!

Insurance companies don't pay hospitals $3,000 for CT scan, shit after it's discounted down they are lucky to get $800. I had an MRI a few weeks back, retail $3500, allowed amount $336.00, my copay $40.00

OK... check out this then: for a hospital in Texas and what they charged Medicare...
CT Scan for 4,456 patients -- average charge: $4,819 -- Average cost: $52

All information in this report is taken from the Medicare Outpatient Prospective Payment System (OPPS) Limited Data Set which is updated annually by CMS based on the calendar year. The file includes billing data for 100% of all Medicare fee-for-service claims for hospital outpatient services during the twelve months ending December 31. The report is based on the most recent period available and is consistent with CMS cell size suppression policy.

Services are defined based on the revenue code for a line item. Averages are based on units of service (i.e. the number of units of items or services delivered).

• Number Patient Claims - the total number of claims for the service.
• Units of Service - the number of units of the items or services delivered. (One claim may have multiple units of service for an item or service.)
• Average Charge - the total charges (covered and non-covered) for all accommodations and services (related to the revenue code) for a billing period before reduction for the deductible and coinsurance amounts and before an adjustment for the cost of services provided.
• Average Cost - Charges adjusted to cost using the hospital's specific cost center cost-to-charge ratio. This calculation is done by CMS and included with OPPS claims data. (Details of the calculation are not provided by CMS.)
• Average Payment - The computed OPPS payment for a line item based on the payment APC. The "payment APC" refers to total payment, including deductible, coinsurance, and program payment.
• Service Mix Index (SMI) - Each APC has a relative weight assigned by CMS. The Service Mix Index is the average relative weight of the procedures billed for a service (e.g. the average relative weight of all surgical procedures performed).

 

[Redfish]

First off, for those that know me...I am a conservative.
I do ask the question in sincerity.
Last year with health premiums, and healthcare bills, my wife and I spent $7,040 for the two of us.
Then add in the employers portion of premium and that totals up to roughly $11,000.
Even with that, we are well below the average cost the average American pays.
So, would I pay out say... $600 a month in taxes, and my employer in lieu of paying premiums, pay another $400 a month? Instead of paying an insurer?
Yes, yes I would.
But only if the care was equally as good.
And would it be?
How would we, as a nation, pay for the bums and lazy asses who won't work?
Should a "health tax" be income specific? So someone who makes $250,000 a year would pay a great deal more than a $50,000 a year person? Would that work?

One thing is for certain. The current system is not working well. We are paying more and more and more to insurers who are raising deductibles and increasing premiums while covering less.
What fix is there?

There are several factors involved in health care costs WHICH I"M very qualified (hence my "healthmyths" name) and I can share several factors that cause health care cost as a share of the nation's Gross Domestic Product, health spending accounted for 17.9 percent.Jan 8, 2018 or
Historical - Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services

According to physicians 26% of the $3.3 Trillion health care costs comes from this:
Remember I'm not saying it.. the people that practice it say it and the proof is a law passed in 1946 called Tort Reform Act.
Read very carefully how physicians under contract with the Federal government can't be sued and hence they don't practice defensive medicine as much.

Now if you want to complain about health care costs be so high... START HERE.. because until lawyers who average AVERAGE!! salary of $139,880 doesn't come from
resolving 96% of malpractice lawsuits out of court as it is "CHEAPER" for insurance companies to simply raise premiums we'll see that.

Now for another contribution to HIGH HEALTH CARE COSTS... LOOK up EMTALA a Federal law passed in 1986.
A clue... why does a hospital charge $3,000 for a CAT scan that the actual cost of doing a CAT scan is less than $100? Again look to EMTALA!

I'll expound on that later if you want. Remember I don't make these statements up. I have LINKS.

View attachment 208438

I agree that we need tort reform and limits on medical liability claims.

But, there was nothing wrong with medical care before obozocare, no one was turned away and those of us who paid covered those who did not or could not. Employer subsidized medical insurance worked for everyone, employees and employers.

I disagree. I do agree that ACA is much worse, and 'universal healthcare' would be worse yet, but the existing setup is horrible. Employer provided health care, especially via "group" health insurance, isn't viable. I drives health care inflation and makes people virtual slaves of their employers. We need to remove all legislation and tax policy currently propping it up.

We do need some cost controls on big pharma and all types of medical care. I don't like the government telling anyone what they can charge for their products and services, but this may be the one case what that would be a good thing.

No. No. No. Like all such schemes, it would be controlled by the people who have the most at stake and achieve none of its intended goals.

then just let the free market operate, and let people buy or not buy insurance as they choose. there is no way to have government involved and not have corruption.

 

[Redfish]

When we stop the insanity of looking at Doctors like they were Gods and quit allowing ourselves to be treated as cash flow this stupidity will stop.

Last trip I took to the Doctor I asked flat out what my cost would be. When he couldn’t answer I told him, I’ll pay you $200 period and in cash. Period

Took care of it.

What you are illustrating is the COSTS of practicing medicine paid for by others and not YOU!
A) If you had to pay out of your pocket office visits would you be going to the doctor for a splinter in your finger?
B) Would you be doing dumb ass stunts such as these or let your kids do them?
View attachment 208457
C) Why do you think insurance companies pay hospitals $3,000 for a CAT scan that costs less than $100 to perform? CHECK OUT EMTALA!
D) Why do you think doctors agree nearly $800 billion a year in wasted medical tests, etc... all because they fear being sued.

These idiotic stunts, idiotic attitude..."hey I've got insurance..." all contribute to what you complained about!

Insurance companies don't pay hospitals $3,000 for CT scan, shit after it's discounted down they are lucky to get $800. I had an MRI a few weeks back, retail $3500, allowed amount $336.00, my copay $40.00

OK... check out this then: for a hospital in Texas and what they charged Medicare...
CT Scan for 4,456 patients -- average charge: $4,819 -- Average cost: $52

All information in this report is taken from the Medicare Outpatient Prospective Payment System (OPPS) Limited Data Set which is updated annually by CMS based on the calendar year. The file includes billing data for 100% of all Medicare fee-for-service claims for hospital outpatient services during the twelve months ending December 31. The report is based on the most recent period available and is consistent with CMS cell size suppression policy.

Services are defined based on the revenue code for a line item. Averages are based on units of service (i.e. the number of units of items or services delivered).

• Number Patient Claims - the total number of claims for the service.
• Units of Service - the number of units of the items or services delivered. (One claim may have multiple units of service for an item or service.)
• Average Charge - the total charges (covered and non-covered) for all accommodations and services (related to the revenue code) for a billing period before reduction for the deductible and coinsurance amounts and before an adjustment for the cost of services provided.
• Average Cost - Charges adjusted to cost using the hospital's specific cost center cost-to-charge ratio. This calculation is done by CMS and included with OPPS claims data. (Details of the calculation are not provided by CMS.)
• Average Payment - The computed OPPS payment for a line item based on the payment APC. The "payment APC" refers to total payment, including deductible, coinsurance, and program payment.
• Service Mix Index (SMI) - Each APC has a relative weight assigned by CMS. The Service Mix Index is the average relative weight of the procedures billed for a service (e.g. the average relative weight of all surgical procedures performed).

the hospitals play that game for tax purposes, they create huge charges and then accept much less from insurance or medicare and claim the rest as a business loss for tax purposes. Its a game and they have been doing it for years.

a few years ago my wife had a brain aneurysm (from which she recovered completely after amazing surgery). he hospital bill was over 250K plus 60K for the brain surgeon and his team. Insurance (medicare advantage) paid 80K total and the hospital and doctor never asked us for more than our deductible of 2K. I am quite sure that their tax returns will show losses on this patient of 190K or more.

Same procedure is used by the drug companies. that is what needs to be fixed, not create some huge inefficient government agency that would ruin the best medical system in the history of the world.

 

[BluesLegend]

Do you have an example of that LOL?

ACA.. It was billed as "we the people" reigning in the insurance companies. But in fact, it was the opposite. It was the insurance industry reigning in its customers - even forcing the unwilling to become customers.

ACA is a Dem wealth redistribution scheme to buy votes, period!

And you have to be pretty damn stupid to not take them up on it, don't you? Anyway the Mandate is gone and good riddance if it makes you idiots go nuts LOL...

I pay my own bills unlike Dem moochers who want somebody else to pay for their health insurance.

BS, I bet you will be the first in line to get SS and Medicare.

The SS and Medicare I'm forced to pay into is that the SS and Medicare you are talking about? Why wouldn't I get what I was forced to pay for?