Is it time for Universal Healthcare....and can it be done?

[BluesLegend]

and just maybe we would get doctor's who are in it to actually help patients instead of the money.

^^^ another stupid ass socialist who lives in fantasy land. Why do shit for brains liberals always assume the people they are trying to screw over are 'rich' and can afford it?

 

[dblack]

When we stop the insanity of looking at Doctors like they were Gods and quit allowing ourselves to be treated as cash flow this stupidity will stop.

Last trip I took to the Doctor I asked flat out what my cost would be. When he couldn’t answer I told him, I’ll pay you $200 period and in cash. Period

Took care of it.

What you are illustrating is the COSTS of practicing medicine paid for by others and not YOU!
A) If you had to pay out of your pocket office visits would you be going to the doctor for a splinter in your finger?
B) Would you be doing dumb ass stunts such as these or let your kids do them?
View attachment 208457
C) Why do you think insurance companies pay hospitals $3,000 for a CAT scan that costs less than $100 to perform? CHECK OUT EMTALA!
D) Why do you think doctors agree nearly $800 billion a year in wasted medical tests, etc... all because they fear being sued.

These idiotic stunts, idiotic attitude..."hey I've got insurance..." all contribute to what you complained about!

Insurance companies don't pay hospitals $3,000 for CT scan, shit after it's discounted down they are lucky to get $800. I had an MRI a few weeks back, retail $3500, allowed amount $336.00, my copay $40.00

OK... check out this then: for a hospital in Texas and what they charged Medicare...
CT Scan for 4,456 patients -- average charge: $4,819 -- Average cost: $52

All information in this report is taken from the Medicare Outpatient Prospective Payment System (OPPS) Limited Data Set which is updated annually by CMS based on the calendar year. The file includes billing data for 100% of all Medicare fee-for-service claims for hospital outpatient services during the twelve months ending December 31. The report is based on the most recent period available and is consistent with CMS cell size suppression policy.

Services are defined based on the revenue code for a line item. Averages are based on units of service (i.e. the number of units of items or services delivered).

• Number Patient Claims - the total number of claims for the service.
• Units of Service - the number of units of the items or services delivered. (One claim may have multiple units of service for an item or service.)
• Average Charge - the total charges (covered and non-covered) for all accommodations and services (related to the revenue code) for a billing period before reduction for the deductible and coinsurance amounts and before an adjustment for the cost of services provided.
• Average Cost - Charges adjusted to cost using the hospital's specific cost center cost-to-charge ratio. This calculation is done by CMS and included with OPPS claims data. (Details of the calculation are not provided by CMS.)
• Average Payment - The computed OPPS payment for a line item based on the payment APC. The "payment APC" refers to total payment, including deductible, coinsurance, and program payment.
• Service Mix Index (SMI) - Each APC has a relative weight assigned by CMS. The Service Mix Index is the average relative weight of the procedures billed for a service (e.g. the average relative weight of all surgical procedures performed).

the hospitals play that game for tax purposes, they create huge charges and then accept much less from insurance or medicare and claim the rest as a business loss for tax purposes. Its a game and they have been doing it for years.

a few years ago my wife had a brain aneurysm (from which she recovered completely after amazing surgery). he hospital bill was over 250K plus 60K for the brain surgeon and his team. Insurance (medicare advantage) paid 80K total and the hospital and doctor never asked us for more than our deductible of 2K. I am quite sure that their tax returns will show losses on this patient of 190K or more.

Same procedure is used by the drug companies. that is what needs to be fixed, not create some huge inefficient government agency that would ruin the best medical system in the history of the world.

This is how our byzantine tax code is undermining our country. It's an inevitable outcome of using the tax code to manipulate behavior. All the loopholes and incentives, intended to nudge society in this direction or that, are gamed by people who know how to play such systems. It creates a convoluted mess of influence peddling that benefits no one outside of K-street.

 

[Rigby5]

and just maybe we would get doctor's who are in it to actually help patients instead of the money.

^^^ another stupid ass socialist who lives in fantasy land. Why do shit for brains liberals always assume the people they are trying to screw over are 'rich' and can afford it?

That is backwards.
Public health care would save everyone lots of money, because you then don't have the layers skimming off profits, like insurance companies, health care conglomerates, etc.
The rest of the world has better health care at less than half the cost, by hiring the doctors directly, or using single payer negotiating clout to get the best prices and quality.
Private health insurance makes no sense at all, since once you prepay, you have ZERO negotiating power over quality or price.
And by making health insurance benefits tax exempt, the poor actually help subsidize the health care of the wealthy.

 

[healthmyths]

When we stop the insanity of looking at Doctors like they were Gods and quit allowing ourselves to be treated as cash flow this stupidity will stop.

Last trip I took to the Doctor I asked flat out what my cost would be. When he couldn’t answer I told him, I’ll pay you $200 period and in cash. Period

Took care of it.

What you are illustrating is the COSTS of practicing medicine paid for by others and not YOU!
A) If you had to pay out of your pocket office visits would you be going to the doctor for a splinter in your finger?
B) Would you be doing dumb ass stunts such as these or let your kids do them?
View attachment 208457
C) Why do you think insurance companies pay hospitals $3,000 for a CAT scan that costs less than $100 to perform? CHECK OUT EMTALA!
D) Why do you think doctors agree nearly $800 billion a year in wasted medical tests, etc... all because they fear being sued.

These idiotic stunts, idiotic attitude..."hey I've got insurance..." all contribute to what you complained about!

Insurance companies don't pay hospitals $3,000 for CT scan, shit after it's discounted down they are lucky to get $800. I had an MRI a few weeks back, retail $3500, allowed amount $336.00, my copay $40.00

OK... check out this then: for a hospital in Texas and what they charged Medicare...
CT Scan for 4,456 patients -- average charge: $4,819 -- Average cost: $52

All information in this report is taken from the Medicare Outpatient Prospective Payment System (OPPS) Limited Data Set which is updated annually by CMS based on the calendar year. The file includes billing data for 100% of all Medicare fee-for-service claims for hospital outpatient services during the twelve months ending December 31. The report is based on the most recent period available and is consistent with CMS cell size suppression policy.

Services are defined based on the revenue code for a line item. Averages are based on units of service (i.e. the number of units of items or services delivered).

• Number Patient Claims - the total number of claims for the service.
• Units of Service - the number of units of the items or services delivered. (One claim may have multiple units of service for an item or service.)
• Average Charge - the total charges (covered and non-covered) for all accommodations and services (related to the revenue code) for a billing period before reduction for the deductible and coinsurance amounts and before an adjustment for the cost of services provided.
• Average Cost - Charges adjusted to cost using the hospital's specific cost center cost-to-charge ratio. This calculation is done by CMS and included with OPPS claims data. (Details of the calculation are not provided by CMS.)
• Average Payment - The computed OPPS payment for a line item based on the payment APC. The "payment APC" refers to total payment, including deductible, coinsurance, and program payment.
• Service Mix Index (SMI) - Each APC has a relative weight assigned by CMS. The Service Mix Index is the average relative weight of the procedures billed for a service (e.g. the average relative weight of all surgical procedures performed).

the hospitals play that game for tax purposes, they create huge charges and then accept much less from insurance or medicare and claim the rest as a business loss for tax purposes. Its a game and they have been doing it for years.

a few years ago my wife had a brain aneurysm (from which she recovered completely after amazing surgery). he hospital bill was over 250K plus 60K for the brain surgeon and his team. Insurance (medicare advantage) paid 80K total and the hospital and doctor never asked us for more than our deductible of 2K. I am quite sure that their tax returns will show losses on this patient of 190K or more.

Same procedure is used by the drug companies. that is what needs to be fixed, not create some huge inefficient government agency that would ruin the best medical system in the history of the world.

This is how our byzantine tax code is undermining our country. It's an inevitable outcome of using the tax code to manipulate behavior. All the loopholes and incentives, intended to nudge society in this direction or that, are gamed by people who know how to play such systems. It creates a convoluted mess of influence peddling that benefits no one outside of K-street.

But as I've pointed out contributory to the hospital games is this LAW...

EMTALA (Emergency Medical Treatment And Labor Act)

In 1986, Congress enacted the Emergency Medical Treatment & Labor Act (EMTALA) to ensure public access to emergency services regardless of ability to pay. Section 1867 of the Social Security Act imposes specific obligations on Medicare-participating hospitals that offer emergency services to provide a medical screening examination (MSE) when a request is made for examination or treatment for an emergency medical condition (EMC), including active labor, regardless of an individual's ability to pay. Hospitals are then required to provide stabilizing treatment for patients with EMCs. If a hospital is unable to stabilize a patient within its capability, or if the patient requests, an appropriate transfer should be implemented.
Emergency Medical Treatment & Labor Act (EMTALA) - Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services

Simply put if a hospital is paid Medicare they have to see patients regardless of ability to pay.

 

[healthmyths]

and just maybe we would get doctor's who are in it to actually help patients instead of the money.

^^^ another stupid ass socialist who lives in fantasy land. Why do shit for brains liberals always assume the people they are trying to screw over are 'rich' and can afford it?

That is backwards.
Public health care would save everyone lots of money, because you then don't have the layers skimming off profits, like insurance companies, health care conglomerates, etc.
The rest of the world has better health care at less than half the cost, by hiring the doctors directly, or using single payer negotiating clout to get the best prices and quality.
Private health insurance makes no sense at all, since once you prepay, you have ZERO negotiating power over quality or price.
And by making health insurance benefits tax exempt, the poor actually help subsidize the health care of the wealthy.

Then why are we paying for car insurance?
Home insurance?
Life Insurance?
Why do we buy groceries? Shouldn't we ALL be on CHIP?
You know some people get free cell phones, free rent, free food now... called Welfare. And who is paying for it?

Why not have ALL our expenses paid by the government?

Then what would our taxes be because this money comes from somewhere. There are no unicorns, or fairy godmothers that it is obvious you believe in!

 

[Rigby5]

When we stop the insanity of looking at Doctors like they were Gods and quit allowing ourselves to be treated as cash flow this stupidity will stop.

Last trip I took to the Doctor I asked flat out what my cost would be. When he couldn’t answer I told him, I’ll pay you $200 period and in cash. Period

Took care of it.

What you are illustrating is the COSTS of practicing medicine paid for by others and not YOU!
A) If you had to pay out of your pocket office visits would you be going to the doctor for a splinter in your finger?
B) Would you be doing dumb ass stunts such as these or let your kids do them?
View attachment 208457
C) Why do you think insurance companies pay hospitals $3,000 for a CAT scan that costs less than $100 to perform? CHECK OUT EMTALA!
D) Why do you think doctors agree nearly $800 billion a year in wasted medical tests, etc... all because they fear being sued.

These idiotic stunts, idiotic attitude..."hey I've got insurance..." all contribute to what you complained about!

Insurance companies don't pay hospitals $3,000 for CT scan, shit after it's discounted down they are lucky to get $800. I had an MRI a few weeks back, retail $3500, allowed amount $336.00, my copay $40.00

OK... check out this then: for a hospital in Texas and what they charged Medicare...
CT Scan for 4,456 patients -- average charge: $4,819 -- Average cost: $52

All information in this report is taken from the Medicare Outpatient Prospective Payment System (OPPS) Limited Data Set which is updated annually by CMS based on the calendar year. The file includes billing data for 100% of all Medicare fee-for-service claims for hospital outpatient services during the twelve months ending December 31. The report is based on the most recent period available and is consistent with CMS cell size suppression policy.

Services are defined based on the revenue code for a line item. Averages are based on units of service (i.e. the number of units of items or services delivered).

• Number Patient Claims - the total number of claims for the service.
• Units of Service - the number of units of the items or services delivered. (One claim may have multiple units of service for an item or service.)
• Average Charge - the total charges (covered and non-covered) for all accommodations and services (related to the revenue code) for a billing period before reduction for the deductible and coinsurance amounts and before an adjustment for the cost of services provided.
• Average Cost - Charges adjusted to cost using the hospital's specific cost center cost-to-charge ratio. This calculation is done by CMS and included with OPPS claims data. (Details of the calculation are not provided by CMS.)
• Average Payment - The computed OPPS payment for a line item based on the payment APC. The "payment APC" refers to total payment, including deductible, coinsurance, and program payment.
• Service Mix Index (SMI) - Each APC has a relative weight assigned by CMS. The Service Mix Index is the average relative weight of the procedures billed for a service (e.g. the average relative weight of all surgical procedures performed).

the hospitals play that game for tax purposes, they create huge charges and then accept much less from insurance or medicare and claim the rest as a business loss for tax purposes. Its a game and they have been doing it for years.

a few years ago my wife had a brain aneurysm (from which she recovered completely after amazing surgery). he hospital bill was over 250K plus 60K for the brain surgeon and his team. Insurance (medicare advantage) paid 80K total and the hospital and doctor never asked us for more than our deductible of 2K. I am quite sure that their tax returns will show losses on this patient of 190K or more.

Same procedure is used by the drug companies. that is what needs to be fixed, not create some huge inefficient government agency that would ruin the best medical system in the history of the world.

Huge government agencies are the most efficient at things like administering health care because they have the most negotiating clout.
Works in every country in the world.
Medicare and VA show less than a 10% administration overhead, while private insurance companies are more like 40%.

We do not have the best health care in the world.
Actually we are rated 37, about the lowest of all the developed nations.

World Health Organization's Ranking of the World's Health Systems

 

[BluesLegend]

and just maybe we would get doctor's who are in it to actually help patients instead of the money.

^^^ another stupid ass socialist who lives in fantasy land. Why do shit for brains liberals always assume the people they are trying to screw over are 'rich' and can afford it?

That is backwards.
Public health care would save everyone lots of money, because you then don't have the layers skimming off profits, like insurance companies, health care conglomerates, etc.
The rest of the world has better health care at less than half the cost, by hiring the doctors directly, or using single payer negotiating clout to get the best prices and quality.
Private health insurance makes no sense at all, since once you prepay, you have ZERO negotiating power over quality or price.
And by making health insurance benefits tax exempt, the poor actually help subsidize the health care of the wealthy.

Your fellow socialists are saying doctors would have to accept lower pay and if they don't like it they can find another job. One particularly stupid moron dreams of doctors who don't care about the money, they are just happy to contribute to the communist collective.

 

[BluesLegend]

and just maybe we would get doctor's who are in it to actually help patients instead of the money.

^^^ another stupid ass socialist who lives in fantasy land. Why do shit for brains liberals always assume the people they are trying to screw over are 'rich' and can afford it?

That is backwards.
Public health care would save everyone lots of money, because you then don't have the layers skimming off profits, like insurance companies, health care conglomerates, etc.
The rest of the world has better health care at less than half the cost, by hiring the doctors directly, or using single payer negotiating clout to get the best prices and quality.
Private health insurance makes no sense at all, since once you prepay, you have ZERO negotiating power over quality or price.
And by making health insurance benefits tax exempt, the poor actually help subsidize the health care of the wealthy.

Then why are we paying for car insurance?
Home insurance?
Life Insurance?
Why do we buy groceries? Shouldn't we ALL be on CHIP?
You know some people get free cell phones, free rent, free food now... called Welfare. And who is paying for it?

Why not have ALL our expenses paid by the government?

Then what would our taxes be because this money comes from somewhere. There are no unicorns, or fairy godmothers that it is obvious you believe in!

That clown is dumb as a post. My brother has to rely on government run VA healthcare, its an incompetent total FUBAR fiasco.

 

[BluesLegend]

Huge government agencies are the most efficient at things like administering health care because they have the most negotiating clout.

 

[healthmyths]

and just maybe we would get doctor's who are in it to actually help patients instead of the money.

^^^ another stupid ass socialist who lives in fantasy land. Why do shit for brains liberals always assume the people they are trying to screw over are 'rich' and can afford it?

That is backwards.
Public health care would save everyone lots of money, because you then don't have the layers skimming off profits, like insurance companies, health care conglomerates, etc.
The rest of the world has better health care at less than half the cost, by hiring the doctors directly, or using single payer negotiating clout to get the best prices and quality.
Private health insurance makes no sense at all, since once you prepay, you have ZERO negotiating power over quality or price.
And by making health insurance benefits tax exempt, the poor actually help subsidize the health care of the wealthy.

THERE has never BEEN a health care crisis! Just please read the below and then you will understand that there were less than 5 million people that weren't covered that couldn't afford, didn't qualify or some other reason. Remember the guy that said it took the stupidity of American voters proves that
There never were 46 million. Never were half of all Americans with pre-existing conditions.
AGAIN... PLEASE REFUTE these FACTS... go to the links and get the proof there NEVER were 46 million uninsured or half of all Americans with pre-existing conditions!

NEVER half of all Americans! . Read below.

 

[Rigby5]

and just maybe we would get doctor's who are in it to actually help patients instead of the money.

^^^ another stupid ass socialist who lives in fantasy land. Why do shit for brains liberals always assume the people they are trying to screw over are 'rich' and can afford it?

That is backwards.
Public health care would save everyone lots of money, because you then don't have the layers skimming off profits, like insurance companies, health care conglomerates, etc.
The rest of the world has better health care at less than half the cost, by hiring the doctors directly, or using single payer negotiating clout to get the best prices and quality.
Private health insurance makes no sense at all, since once you prepay, you have ZERO negotiating power over quality or price.
And by making health insurance benefits tax exempt, the poor actually help subsidize the health care of the wealthy.

Then why are we paying for car insurance?
Home insurance?
Life Insurance?
Why do we buy groceries? Shouldn't we ALL be on CHIP?
You know some people get free cell phones, free rent, free food now... called Welfare. And who is paying for it?

Why not have ALL our expenses paid by the government?

Then what would our taxes be because this money comes from somewhere. There are no unicorns, or fairy godmothers that it is obvious you believe in!

Those are all scams leveraging on fear.
No insurance policy ever makes any sort of rational sense at all.
I have paid in over half a million dollars into health insurance over my life, and not once got a single cent out of it.
Almost no one ever does.

Groceries are subsidized.
Food would be about double is not for the efficiency of farm subsidies.
Almost no one gets welfare, welfare is temporary, and it is intended to prevent cycles of poverty that cost us more in crime.
All our expenses being paid by government would save us all money, because they can buy in greater bulk, cut out the middle man, arrange mass housing, run cafeterias, etc.
You are describing much of the rest of the world, and it works much more efficiently.
And taxes then are less, because there is less profit being skimmed and invested in offshore multi national conglomerates that steal all the profit.

 

[healthmyths]

and just maybe we would get doctor's who are in it to actually help patients instead of the money.

^^^ another stupid ass socialist who lives in fantasy land. Why do shit for brains liberals always assume the people they are trying to screw over are 'rich' and can afford it?

That is backwards.
Public health care would save everyone lots of money, because you then don't have the layers skimming off profits, like insurance companies, health care conglomerates, etc.
The rest of the world has better health care at less than half the cost, by hiring the doctors directly, or using single payer negotiating clout to get the best prices and quality.
Private health insurance makes no sense at all, since once you prepay, you have ZERO negotiating power over quality or price.
And by making health insurance benefits tax exempt, the poor actually help subsidize the health care of the wealthy.

Then why are we paying for car insurance?
Home insurance?
Life Insurance?
Why do we buy groceries? Shouldn't we ALL be on CHIP?
You know some people get free cell phones, free rent, free food now... called Welfare. And who is paying for it?

Why not have ALL our expenses paid by the government?

Then what would our taxes be because this money comes from somewhere. There are no unicorns, or fairy godmothers that it is obvious you believe in!

Those are all scams leveraging on fear.
No insurance policy ever makes any sort of rational sense at all.
I have paid in over half a million dollars into health insurance over my life, and not once got a single cent out of it.
Almost no one ever does.

Groceries are subsidized.
Food would be about double is not for the efficiency of farm subsidies.
Almost no one gets welfare, welfare is temporary, and it is intended to prevent cycles of poverty that cost us more in crime.
All our expenses being paid by government would save us all money, because they can buy in greater bulk, cut out the middle man, arrange mass housing, run cafeterias, etc.
You are describing much of the rest of the world, and it works much more efficiently.
And taxes then are less, because there is less profit being skimmed and invested in offshore multi national conglomerates that steal all the profit.

Who will the government buy from? There will be nothing to buy! There would be no private enterprises.
'The trouble with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money'?

 

[Rigby5]

and just maybe we would get doctor's who are in it to actually help patients instead of the money.

^^^ another stupid ass socialist who lives in fantasy land. Why do shit for brains liberals always assume the people they are trying to screw over are 'rich' and can afford it?

That is backwards.
Public health care would save everyone lots of money, because you then don't have the layers skimming off profits, like insurance companies, health care conglomerates, etc.
The rest of the world has better health care at less than half the cost, by hiring the doctors directly, or using single payer negotiating clout to get the best prices and quality.
Private health insurance makes no sense at all, since once you prepay, you have ZERO negotiating power over quality or price.
And by making health insurance benefits tax exempt, the poor actually help subsidize the health care of the wealthy.

THERE has never BEEN a health care crisis! Just please read the below and then you will understand that there were less than 5 million people that weren't covered that couldn't afford, didn't qualify or some other reason. Remember the guy that said it took the stupidity of American voters proves that
There never were 46 million. Never were half of all Americans with pre-existing conditions.
AGAIN... PLEASE REFUTE these FACTS... go to the links and get the proof there NEVER were 46 million uninsured or half of all Americans with pre-existing conditions!
View attachment 208494

NEVER half of all Americans! . Read below.

View attachment 208496

Totally and completely false.
None of those 40 million uninsured were immigrants, because immigrants are poor enough to qualify for Medicare.
None of those 40 million qualified for medicare, and they had tried and failed.
Only about a third of all jobs come with employer provided heath insurance benefits.
No one has ever turned down employer health insurance, because the employee contribution is always less than 5% or so.
The main reason the employers do it is because it greatly reduces their taxes.
And there has never been a veteran who did not know they get free health care.

So not a single claim is true.
None of those listed are part of the 40 million uninsured at all.

 

[BluesLegend]

and just maybe we would get doctor's who are in it to actually help patients instead of the money.

^^^ another stupid ass socialist who lives in fantasy land. Why do shit for brains liberals always assume the people they are trying to screw over are 'rich' and can afford it?

That is backwards.
Public health care would save everyone lots of money, because you then don't have the layers skimming off profits, like insurance companies, health care conglomerates, etc.
The rest of the world has better health care at less than half the cost, by hiring the doctors directly, or using single payer negotiating clout to get the best prices and quality.
Private health insurance makes no sense at all, since once you prepay, you have ZERO negotiating power over quality or price.
And by making health insurance benefits tax exempt, the poor actually help subsidize the health care of the wealthy.

THERE has never BEEN a health care crisis! Just please read the below and then you will understand that there were less than 5 million people that weren't covered that couldn't afford, didn't qualify or some other reason. Remember the guy that said it took the stupidity of American voters proves that
There never were 46 million. Never were half of all Americans with pre-existing conditions.
AGAIN... PLEASE REFUTE these FACTS... go to the links and get the proof there NEVER were 46 million uninsured or half of all Americans with pre-existing conditions!
View attachment 208494

NEVER half of all Americans! . Read below.

View attachment 208496

Totally and completely false.
None of those 40 million uninsured were immigrants, because immigrants are poor enough to qualify for Medicare.
None of those 40 million qualified for medicare, and they had tried and failed.
Only about a third of all jobs come with employer provided heath insurance benefits.
No one has ever turned down employer health insurance, because the employee contribution is always less than 5% or so.
The main reason the employers do it is because it greatly reduces their taxes.
And there has never been a veteran who did not know they get free health care.

So not a single claim is true.
None of those listed are part of the 40 million uninsured at all.

Its not rocket science, buy your own damn health insurance and stop trying to mooch off me.

 

[BluesLegend]

I'm also not responsible for paying for your damn cable tv, water and garbage, electric bill, rent, or your damn car payment. Moochers need to get up off their ass and pay their own bills.

 

[healthmyths]

When we stop the insanity of looking at Doctors like they were Gods and quit allowing ourselves to be treated as cash flow this stupidity will stop.

Last trip I took to the Doctor I asked flat out what my cost would be. When he couldn’t answer I told him, I’ll pay you $200 period and in cash. Period

Took care of it.

What you are illustrating is the COSTS of practicing medicine paid for by others and not YOU!
A) If you had to pay out of your pocket office visits would you be going to the doctor for a splinter in your finger?
B) Would you be doing dumb ass stunts such as these or let your kids do them?
View attachment 208457
C) Why do you think insurance companies pay hospitals $3,000 for a CAT scan that costs less than $100 to perform? CHECK OUT EMTALA!
D) Why do you think doctors agree nearly $800 billion a year in wasted medical tests, etc... all because they fear being sued.

These idiotic stunts, idiotic attitude..."hey I've got insurance..." all contribute to what you complained about!

Insurance companies don't pay hospitals $3,000 for CT scan, shit after it's discounted down they are lucky to get $800. I had an MRI a few weeks back, retail $3500, allowed amount $336.00, my copay $40.00

OK... check out this then: for a hospital in Texas and what they charged Medicare...
CT Scan for 4,456 patients -- average charge: $4,819 -- Average cost: $52

All information in this report is taken from the Medicare Outpatient Prospective Payment System (OPPS) Limited Data Set which is updated annually by CMS based on the calendar year. The file includes billing data for 100% of all Medicare fee-for-service claims for hospital outpatient services during the twelve months ending December 31. The report is based on the most recent period available and is consistent with CMS cell size suppression policy.

Services are defined based on the revenue code for a line item. Averages are based on units of service (i.e. the number of units of items or services delivered).

• Number Patient Claims - the total number of claims for the service.
• Units of Service - the number of units of the items or services delivered. (One claim may have multiple units of service for an item or service.)
• Average Charge - the total charges (covered and non-covered) for all accommodations and services (related to the revenue code) for a billing period before reduction for the deductible and coinsurance amounts and before an adjustment for the cost of services provided.
• Average Cost - Charges adjusted to cost using the hospital's specific cost center cost-to-charge ratio. This calculation is done by CMS and included with OPPS claims data. (Details of the calculation are not provided by CMS.)
• Average Payment - The computed OPPS payment for a line item based on the payment APC. The "payment APC" refers to total payment, including deductible, coinsurance, and program payment.
• Service Mix Index (SMI) - Each APC has a relative weight assigned by CMS. The Service Mix Index is the average relative weight of the procedures billed for a service (e.g. the average relative weight of all surgical procedures performed).

the hospitals play that game for tax purposes, they create huge charges and then accept much less from insurance or medicare and claim the rest as a business loss for tax purposes. Its a game and they have been doing it for years.

a few years ago my wife had a brain aneurysm (from which she recovered completely after amazing surgery). he hospital bill was over 250K plus 60K for the brain surgeon and his team. Insurance (medicare advantage) paid 80K total and the hospital and doctor never asked us for more than our deductible of 2K. I am quite sure that their tax returns will show losses on this patient of 190K or more.

Same procedure is used by the drug companies. that is what needs to be fixed, not create some huge inefficient government agency that would ruin the best medical system in the history of the world.

Huge government agencies are the most efficient at things like administering health care because they have the most negotiating clout.
Works in every country in the world.
Medicare and VA show less than a 10% administration overhead, while private insurance companies are more like 40%.

We do not have the best health care in the world.
Actually we are rated 37, about the lowest of all the developed nations.

World Health Organization's Ranking of the World's Health Systems

Once again your lack of really understanding how the world works is appalling!
A) Medicare doesn't process ONE SINGLE CLAIM! For profit insurance companies contract with Medicare and pay all the claims.
B) The average insurance company nets AFTER paying claims 20%! NOT 40%
C) STATE laws require these insurance companies to have reserves that are paid from "PROFITS" or they can't sell insurance. As a result idiots like Obama in Obamacare
said insurance companies must pay out 85% of all premiums. This left NOTHING for profits after 15% deducted for administration. HENCE the reason companies dropped ACA!
D) There are NO countries in the world where govt. run health care are "efficient". Canadians come to the USA for health care! FACT!
The Fraser Institute, a Canadian public policy think tank, estimates that 52,513 Canadians received non-emergency medical treatment in the U.S. and other countries in 2014, a 25 percent jump from the roughly 41,838 who sought medical care abroad the previous year.Aug 3, 2016
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-co...dians-increasingly-come-to-us-for-health-care

E) Ultimately any more facts I share with you is useless as you have absolutely NO common sense! Zero.

Not one of your inane comments had any substantiation. YOU are guessing and are wrong on all counts.

FACTS prove how totally and truly ignorant you are as to how the REAL world works. Please read for once FACTS ...not fiction!

 

[Rigby5]

and just maybe we would get doctor's who are in it to actually help patients instead of the money.

^^^ another stupid ass socialist who lives in fantasy land. Why do shit for brains liberals always assume the people they are trying to screw over are 'rich' and can afford it?

That is backwards.
Public health care would save everyone lots of money, because you then don't have the layers skimming off profits, like insurance companies, health care conglomerates, etc.
The rest of the world has better health care at less than half the cost, by hiring the doctors directly, or using single payer negotiating clout to get the best prices and quality.
Private health insurance makes no sense at all, since once you prepay, you have ZERO negotiating power over quality or price.
And by making health insurance benefits tax exempt, the poor actually help subsidize the health care of the wealthy.

THERE has never BEEN a health care crisis! Just please read the below and then you will understand that there were less than 5 million people that weren't covered that couldn't afford, didn't qualify or some other reason. Remember the guy that said it took the stupidity of American voters proves that
There never were 46 million. Never were half of all Americans with pre-existing conditions.
AGAIN... PLEASE REFUTE these FACTS... go to the links and get the proof there NEVER were 46 million uninsured or half of all Americans with pre-existing conditions!
View attachment 208494

NEVER half of all Americans! . Read below.

View attachment 208496

Totally and completely false.
None of those 40 million uninsured were immigrants, because immigrants are poor enough to qualify for Medicare.
None of those 40 million qualified for medicare, and they had tried and failed.
Only about a third of all jobs come with employer provided heath insurance benefits.
No one has ever turned down employer health insurance, because the employee contribution is always less than 5% or so.
The main reason the employers do it is because it greatly reduces their taxes.
And there has never been a veteran who did not know they get free health care.

So not a single claim is true.
None of those listed are part of the 40 million uninsured at all.

Its not rocket science, buy your own damn health insurance and stop trying to mooch off me.

Of course it is not rocket science.
No one should ever BUY any insurance ever, as it is always just a scam.
Anything prepaid is just a scam.
Would you buy Predpaid Legal Services?
Of course not, it is a notorious scam.
All prepaid has to be, because once they already have your money, they have no incentive to care about what you think or want, at all.
The reality is almost no one needs much medical money.
If we were all to just pool a little bit of money, then no one would get stuck with a big bill.
No one has to profit from risk pooling.
It costs almost nothing.
Buying your own private health insurance costs two to three times as much.
Makes no sense at all.
You might as well be claiming each person should get their own pilot's licence rather than to all board the same airliner plane.
Makes no sense at all.

 

[Rigby5]

I'm also not responsible for paying for your damn cable tv, water and garbage, electric bill, rent, or your damn car payment. Moochers need to get up off their ass and pay their own bills.

You don't pay anyone else's cable, water, garbage, electric, rent or car payment.
Only when there are dependent children are there any minor subsidies available, like Section 8 rent help, which only pays about 30% at most.
Almost all the Human Services federal money goes to disabled vets.

 

[BluesLegend]

I'm also not responsible for paying for your damn cable tv, water and garbage, electric bill, rent, or your damn car payment. Moochers need to get up off their ass and pay their own bills.

You don't pay anyone else's cable, water, garbage, electric, rent or car payment.
Only when there are dependent children are there any minor subsidies available, like Section 8 rent help, which only pays about 30% at most.
Almost all the Human Services federal money goes to disabled vets.

Government abolished welfare??? Oh wait they didn't

 

[MaryAnne11]

Why are you paying that much money if you are on Medicare? Have you checked Medicare Advantage plans?

MaryAnne11 do you know the difference between Medicare and Medicare Advantage Plans because it doesn't seem like you do.

A) Medicare traditional Fee for service means as a Medicare beneficiary you pay the 20% that Medicare won't like for a doctor office visit.
B) Medicare Advantage (MA) Plans are where the MA signs a contract to pay all health care expenses for a Medicare beneficiary if Medicare agrees to pay the MA $800/month.

There are over 607 MA plans and most are for profit health insurance companies that contract with Medicare. Again I KNOW what I'm talking about.

For more details: https://www.medicare.gov/Pubs/pdf/11474.pdf

No, I do not know one thing about Medicare or Medicare Advantage plans. I have only been on both for years. And do not pay one dime for Medicare Advantage.

Doctors and Hospitals charge enormous prices, but these cases are negotiated down.

I pay $5 co- pay to my Primary Doctor and $45 to Specialst. There is a $4000 deductable if I spend 7 days in the Hospitalbut , that is negotiated down,too.

It is wise to shop around but there are also companies that will do that research for you. It should be free. I used them once then checked on my own.

The Medicare book has all the Medicare Advantage plans plans in your area right in the back of their book.