Is it time for Universal Healthcare....and can it be done?

[BluesLegend]

Universal healthcare, sure but don't ask me to pay YOUR share of the cost. I tell you what, add up the total cost and divide it evenly by every man, woman, and child in America THEN ask them if they are willing to pay their share. Here I'll save you the time, the answer will be **** no!

The reduction in costs of healthcare would more than make it profitable for everyone. If if that were calculated into your equation, the answer would be "**** yes"!

Besides haven't you realized that for the vast majority of Americans (like 99%), the Healthcare Industry will eventually take 100% of your wealth - unless you die suddenly.

You apparently have no experience with what happens towards end of life - the healthcare industry milks everyone for every cent they have. Then when you run out of funds they pretty much discard you and let you die.

There is no doubt that fully socialized healthcare will save everyone huge amounts of money. That's the whole point of socialized healthcare.

Your discompassion for your fellow Americans is blinding to to your own best interests. Try hating a bit less!

According to CBO estimates of berniecare and what we pay now, the reduction is miniscule...

Except everyone would have Healthcare and it would be guaranteed idiot....

AHAHAHA it would be guaranteed? Who's paying for this liberal pipe dream the tooth fairy? Liberals live in a vacuum where their dumb ass ideas don't have any negative consequences.

I guess you don't get off the Fox News reservation much. There are plenty of countries which have universal health care. So it isn't a pipe dream.

Soon after Trump proposes UHC, you will probably be one of the first ones to cheer him.

Speaking of libs who are clueless about the negative consequences of their half baked ideas ^^^

 

[WillowTree]

WTF are you about, you senile old goat?

And it ain't getting better with more Giant tax cuts for the rich and giant corporations and crappy minimum wage jobs....
Demise of the American Middle Class In Numbers.

Over the past 35 years the American dream has gradually disappeared. The process was slow, so most people didn’t notice. They just worked a few more hours, borrowed a little more and cut back on non-essentials. But looking at the numbers and comparing them over long time periods, it is obvious that things have changed drastically. Here are the details:

1. WORKERS PRODUCE MORE BUT THE GAINS GO TO BUSINESS.

Over the past 63 years worker productivity has grown by 2.0% per year.

But after 1980, workers received a smaller share every year. Labor’s share of income (1992 = 100%):

1950 = 101%
1960 = 105%
1970 = 105%
1980 = 105% – Reagan
1990 = 100%
2000 = 96%
2007 = 92%

A 13% drop since 1980

2. THE TOP 10% GET A LARGER SHARE.

Share of National Income going to Top 10%:

1950 = 35%
1960 = 34%
1970 = 34%
1980 = 34% – Reagan
1990 = 40%
2000 = 47%
2007 = 50%

An increase of 16% since Reagan.

3. WORKERS COMPENSATED FOR THE LOSS OF INCOME BY SPENDING THEIR SAVINGS.

The savings Rose up to Reagan and fell during and after.

1950 = 6.0%
1960 = 7.0%
1970 = 8.5%
1980 = 10.0% – Reagan
1982 = 11.2% – Peak
1990 = 7.0%
2000 = 2.0%
2006 = -1.1% (Negative = withdrawing from savings)

A 12.3% drop after Reagan.

4. WORKERS ALSO BORROWED TO MAKE UP FOR THE LOSS.

Household Debt as percentage of GDP:

1965 = 46%
1970 = 45%
1980 = 50% – Reagan
1990 = 61%
2000 = 69%
2007 = 95%

A 45% increase after 1980.

5. SO THE GAP BETWEEN THE RICHEST AND THE POOREST HAS GROWN.

Gap Between the Share of Capital Income earned by the top 1%
and the bottom 80%:

1980 = 10%
2003 = 56%

A 5.6 times increase.

6. AND THE AMERICAN DREAM IS GONE.

The Probably of Moving Up from the Bottom 40% to the Top 40%:

1945 = 12%
1958 = 6%
1990 = 3%
2000 = 2%

A 10% Decrease.

Links:

1 = ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/special.requests/pf/totalf1.txt
1 = https://www.clevelandfed.org/Research/PolicyDis/No7Nov04.pdf
1 = Clipboard01.jpg (image)
2 – http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/blog/09/04/27/CongratulationstoEmmanuelSaez/
3 = http://www.demos.org/inequality/images/charts/uspersonalsaving_thumb.gif
3 = U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis (BEA)
4 = Federated Prudent Bear Fund (A): Overview
4 = The Fed - Financial Accounts of the United States - Z.1 - Current Release
5/6 = 15 Mind-Blowing Facts About Wealth And Inequality In America

Overview = http://www.ourfuture.org/blog-entry/2010062415/reagan-revolution-home-roost-charts

This is greed! You want what other’s have worked for. Get off your ass and go earn your own.

I am happily retired, stupid. I am worried about the country. Try it sometime. You are totally misinformed. Change the channel and read something.

I am Reading the Russia Hoax! Get a copy, learn something. Gregg Jarret wrote it!

Everyone outside the brainwashed GOP base thinks you are a total moron, super dupe.

Go **** yourself. You have lost the argument. You have desperately reduced yourself to name calling ewe Izzy done!

 

[dblack]

As I said earlier, No one seems to want to really study all the different forms of socialized healthcare to come up with a plan that will work for us.

Because they don't want medicine to be 'socialized'. Is that so hard to grasp?

If you are a brainwashed functional moron who thinks socialized means communist and you enjoy screwing yourself and everyone you know...
.

Yes, yes... hater dupe, yada, yada...

Yep, let poor people and blacks just die. LOL

Why would you let them die?

 

[BluesLegend]

Under socialized healthcare their salaries would be determined by the system. If they didn't like it, too bad.

And we have a winner ^^^ now we understand your idea of universal healthcare.

 

[francoHFW]

Breaking for s*** head dupes: a flat tax system is fantastic for the rich and screws the rest like you and your family and friends and acquaintances d u h.

How do you figure? Everyone pays 25%. The rich will pay much more than you or I. Right?

It's a stupid experiment and it does not work.
Demise of the American Middle Class In Numbers.

Over the past 35 years the American dream has gradually disappeared. The process was slow, so most people didn’t notice. They just worked a few more hours, borrowed a little more and cut back on non-essentials. But looking at the numbers and comparing them over long time periods, it is obvious that things have changed drastically. Here are the details:

1. WORKERS PRODUCE MORE BUT THE GAINS GO TO BUSINESS.

Over the past 63 years worker productivity has grown by 2.0% per year.

But after 1980, workers received a smaller share every year. Labor’s share of income (1992 = 100%):

1950 = 101%
1960 = 105%
1970 = 105%
1980 = 105% – Reagan
1990 = 100%
2000 = 96%
2007 = 92%

A 13% drop since 1980

2. THE TOP 10% GET A LARGER SHARE.

Share of National Income going to Top 10%:

1950 = 35%
1960 = 34%
1970 = 34%
1980 = 34% – Reagan
1990 = 40%
2000 = 47%
2007 = 50%

An increase of 16% since Reagan.

3. WORKERS COMPENSATED FOR THE LOSS OF INCOME BY SPENDING THEIR SAVINGS.

The savings Rose up to Reagan and fell during and after.

1950 = 6.0%
1960 = 7.0%
1970 = 8.5%
1980 = 10.0% – Reagan
1982 = 11.2% – Peak
1990 = 7.0%
2000 = 2.0%
2006 = -1.1% (Negative = withdrawing from savings)

A 12.3% drop after Reagan.

4. WORKERS ALSO BORROWED TO MAKE UP FOR THE LOSS.

Household Debt as percentage of GDP:

1965 = 46%
1970 = 45%
1980 = 50% – Reagan
1990 = 61%
2000 = 69%
2007 = 95%

A 45% increase after 1980.

5. SO THE GAP BETWEEN THE RICHEST AND THE POOREST HAS GROWN.

Gap Between the Share of Capital Income earned by the top 1%
and the bottom 80%:

1980 = 10%
2003 = 56%

A 5.6 times increase.

6. AND THE AMERICAN DREAM IS GONE.

The Probably of Moving Up from the Bottom 40% to the Top 40%:

1945 = 12%
1958 = 6%
1990 = 3%
2000 = 2%

A 10% Decrease.

Links:

1 = ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/special.requests/pf/totalf1.txt
1 = https://www.clevelandfed.org/Research/PolicyDis/No7Nov04.pdf
1 = Clipboard01.jpg (image)
2 – http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/blog/09/04/27/CongratulationstoEmmanuelSaez/
3 = http://www.demos.org/inequality/images/charts/uspersonalsaving_thumb.gif
3 = U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis (BEA)
4 = Federated Prudent Bear Fund (A): Overview
4 = The Fed - Financial Accounts of the United States - Z.1 - Current Release
5/6 = 15 Mind-Blowing Facts About Wealth And Inequality In America

Overview = http://www.ourfuture.org/blog-entry/2010062415/reagan-revolution-home-roost-charts

So pretty much the 'rich' are evil is that what you are saying?

Universal healthcare, sure but don't ask me to pay YOUR share of the cost. I tell you what, add up the total cost and divide it evenly by every man, woman, and child in America THEN ask them if they are willing to pay their share. Here I'll save you the time, the answer will be **** no!

The reduction in costs of healthcare would more than make it profitable for everyone. If if that were calculated into your equation, the answer would be "**** yes"!

Besides haven't you realized that for the vast majority of Americans (like 99%), the Healthcare Industry will eventually take 100% of your wealth - unless you die suddenly.

You apparently have no experience with what happens towards end of life - the healthcare industry milks everyone for every cent they have. Then when you run out of funds they pretty much discard you and let you die.

There is no doubt that fully socialized healthcare will save everyone huge amounts of money. That's the whole point of socialized healthcare.

Your discompassion for your fellow Americans is blinding to to your own best interests. Try hating a bit less!

This sounds like the typical half bake stupid shit liberal nonsense. Your socialized healthcare pipe dream depends on whether doctors and those working in the healthcare industry would be willing to accept much less money for their services which they will not, its ******* retarded.

Rich Republicans absolutely suck greedy lying brainwashing idiot racist assholes
... Democrat Rich are just fine, brainwashed functional idiot

Fine go get rich Dem's to pay for it, go live your socialized dream nobody is stopping you.

I live in New York I I already Am. Hope you get sick lose your job and die without Medicaid and lose all your assets, dumb f***. LOL!

 

[WillowTree]

Universal healthcare, sure but don't ask me to pay YOUR share of the cost. I tell you what, add up the total cost and divide it evenly by every man, woman, and child in America THEN ask them if they are willing to pay their share. Here I'll save you the time, the answer will be **** no!

The reduction in costs of healthcare would more than make it profitable for everyone. If if that were calculated into your equation, the answer would be "**** yes"!

Besides haven't you realized that for the vast majority of Americans (like 99%), the Healthcare Industry will eventually take 100% of your wealth - unless you die suddenly.

You apparently have no experience with what happens towards end of life - the healthcare industry milks everyone for every cent they have. Then when you run out of funds they pretty much discard you and let you die.

There is no doubt that fully socialized healthcare will save everyone huge amounts of money. That's the whole point of socialized healthcare.

Your discompassion for your fellow Americans is blinding to to your own best interests. Try hating a bit less!

According to CBO estimates of berniecare and what we pay now, the reduction is miniscule...

So? "BernieCare" is one approach. There are lot's of different way of structuring socialized healthcare.

As I said earlier, No one seems to want to really study all the different forms of socialized healthcare to come up with a plan that will work for us.

Berniecare is somewhat popular because he's calling for extending medicare to everyone. Medicare is something that Americans know and are not fearful of.

That doesn't mean that it's the best possible plan, it just means that it's the one that's most likely to get adopted.

Medicare for all is fine as long as everyone pays into it 30 years before they draw it. That’s how Medicare works. You okay with that?

 

[francoHFW]

Under socialized healthcare their salaries would be determined by the system. If they didn't like it, too bad.

And we have a winner ^^^ now we understand your idea of universal healthcare.

That would not be necessary. Get costs down to 14% and cover everyone. Then we really would have the best Healthcare

 

[WillowTree]

Under socialized healthcare their salaries would be determined by the system. If they didn't like it, too bad.

And we have a winner ^^^ now we understand your idea of universal healthcare.

Ask him who would be incentivized to put in all the expense and time for the education required or would we hire minimum wage off the streets as we did the ATC under obummer.

 

[BluesLegend]

I live in New York I I already Am. Hope you get sick lose your job and die without Medicaid and lose all your assets, dumb f***. LOL!

I love it when the left tells us who they really are.

 

[francoHFW]

As I said earlier, No one seems to want to really study all the different forms of socialized healthcare to come up with a plan that will work for us.

Because they don't want medicine to be 'socialized'. Is that so hard to grasp?

If you are a brainwashed functional moron who thinks socialized means communist and you enjoy screwing yourself and everyone you know...
.

Yes, yes... hater dupe, yada, yada...

Yep, let poor people and blacks just die. LOL

Why would you let them die?

They already do, stupid. 40000 a year decide not not to lose everything for their kids just better to die. Keep your blinders on, moron.

 

[francoHFW]

I live in New York I I already Am. Hope you get sick lose your job and die without Medicaid and lose all your assets, dumb f***. LOL!

I love it when the left tells us who they really are.

You like killing people to save the rich so there you go, a******.

 

[WillowTree]

I live in New York I I already Am. Hope you get sick lose your job and die without Medicaid and lose all your assets, dumb f***. LOL!

I love it when the left tells us who they really are.

You like killing people to save the rich so there you go, a******.

Stop lying you stupid fucktard!

 

[dblack]

Because they don't want medicine to be 'socialized'. Is that so hard to grasp?

If you are a brainwashed functional moron who thinks socialized means communist and you enjoy screwing yourself and everyone you know...
.

Yes, yes... hater dupe, yada, yada...

Yep, let poor people and blacks just die. LOL

Why would you let them die?

They already do, stupid. 40000 a year decide not not to lose everything for their kids just better to die. Keep your blinders on, moron.

Why do you let that happen?

 

[francoHFW]

I live in New York I I already Am. Hope you get sick lose your job and die without Medicaid and lose all your assets, dumb f***. LOL!

I love it when the left tells us who they really are.

You like killing people to save the rich so there you go, a******.

Stop lying you stupid fucktard!

GOP dupes are so goddamn stupid LOL

 

[francoHFW]

If you are a brainwashed functional moron who thinks socialized means communist and you enjoy screwing yourself and everyone you know...
.

Yes, yes... hater dupe, yada, yada...

Yep, let poor people and blacks just die. LOL

Why would you let them die?

They already do, stupid. 40000 a year decide not not to lose everything for their kids just better to die. Keep your blinders on, moron.

Why do you let that happen?

It doesn't happen in New York state or blue States anymore. It happens in your stupid a******Red State d u h.

 

[BluesLegend]

Under socialized healthcare their salaries would be determined by the system. If they didn't like it, too bad.

And we have a winner ^^^ now we understand your idea of universal healthcare.

Ask him who would be insentivived to put in all the expense and time for the education required or would we hire minimum wage off the streets as we did the ATC under obummer.

Why bother these morons are dumb as a post. You and I know America's best and brightest would choose a different career and these clowns have no clue how much people have to sacrifice to become physicians and how much that cost both actual dollars or that they are 10 years behind everyone else in saving for retirement. These stupid morons look at a physician's salary at year 11 and just assume they are rich and should have their salary reduced.

 

[WillowTree]

I live in New York I I already Am. Hope you get sick lose your job and die without Medicaid and lose all your assets, dumb f***. LOL!

I love it when the left tells us who they really are.

You like killing people to save the rich so there you go, a******.

Stop lying you stupid fucktard!

GOP dupes are so goddamn stupid LOL

Yeah yeah yeah!

 

[dblack]

Dr. Trump will see you now.
Bend over!

 

[Cecilie1200]

The amazing this about Conservatives, is that the vast majority of them would benefit greatly from socialized healthcare.

Yet their absolute lack of compassion for their fellow Americans - their hatred for anyone that's different from them is so strong that the refuse to do what's best for themselves. Everyone would benefit from socialized healthcare except a few people in the healthcare industry - who would still be making very good money.

They are 'cutting off their noses to spite their face" in the most extreme way conceivable.

They're just plain idiotic.

The amazing thing about this is that not everyone defines "benefit" the same way you do, or "compassion", for that matter.

What's also amazing is that "idiotic" is NOT defined as "wanting different things than His Royal Highness of Ass Napkins, Richard, tells us we should".

I'm very sorry that this whole "freedom to choose priorities" thing is so very distressing to you, except that I'm not sorry, because I don't actually give a crap.

I won't waste my time explaining why you're wrong, since I know you're too arrogant and self-righteous to listen to anything but the voices in your head telling you that YOUR way is the only way that can POSSIBLY be right.

So I'll just say NO. No, we don't want what you think we should have. No, we don't care that you think we're bad people for wanting it. No, you aren't someone whose approval matters.

 

[Cecilie1200]

In another thread, a poster brought up the Singapore system. It seemed very well thought out. I'm a republican too, but our health care is a disaster. Honestly, I think our political system is too fractured to come up with a government solution. I'm almost always against big universal plans, but I'll admit they are not impossible. The problem is you need to be unified to come up with something halfway intelligent like the Singapore system, and we are definitely not that.

Whenever American propose socialized healthcare, we act like we're the first country in the world to do it. We come up with zany ideas on how to do it.

There's plenty of countries we could study and find out what works and what doesn't. We could create a great healthcare system based on those models, but instead we just play this stupid game.

Except that we're the only country that's just like us.

Who would you like us to study and apply to our situation? Some tiny European/Scandinavian country with a fraction of our population and almost total homogeneity? Some other country with a vastly different culture that has no concept of individual freedom such as American citizens take for granted?

Be specific.

Homogeneity and culture should have NOTHING to do with healthcare - unless your a xenophobe and a racist.

The scale of economies may be something that should be taken in account in modeling an American system, but given the number of countries that have successfully implemented socialized healthcare, we can certainly create a successful system.

"Should have nothing to do with healthcare" - because why? You said so?

You can get over right now this desire to carelessly brand anyone who doesn't think your wishes imposed upon 300 million other human beings as "greedy", "xenophobic", "racist", or whatever other random insults you want to throw out in a lame attempt to make us feel ashamed for not living up to YOUR high standards . . . as though any of us give a fat rat's ass about having the likes of YOU think well of us. Hold your breath waiting for that.

Culture has EVERYTHING to do with what a group of people decides their priorities are, and how they're going to achieve them. And homogeneity has a lot to do with what kind of culture that group of people has.

The United States has a huge population, and it's very diverse. There are not a lot of things that are universally considered to be important priorities in the United States, and of those few things, there's even less agreement on how to achieve them.

Put bluntly, Americans don't think the same way that Norwegians do. And what works for Norway, a country with less population than Los Angeles county, wouldn't necessarily work for the United States. You can't just take an idea that works great for 5 people and apply it to 5 million people and expect it to have the same effect.

So no, there is no "given the number of countries that have done it, we should be able to" here. Name me a country that is comparable to the United States. Do not name me a bunch of different countries who collectively STILL only add up to a fraction of the United States.

And do not ******* tell me that we have to just blow off and ignore the differences between our people and theirs because YOU, oh mighty wise arbiter of the universe, have decided that those differences are "bad" and "immoral" and therefore don't count.

You arrogant ass napkin.

Your belief that homogeneity and culture should determine healthcare is so ridiculous it's barely worth discussing this with you.

If your attitude is that because your an American you have the right to be an obstinate, immoral asshole, then you are actually right. But all that means is that any decent person should ignore your opinions. You are a sub-human troll and nothing more.

Forgive all of us that have evolved beyond being self-centered assholes - but we will not allow you to stop human social evolution.

I just heard, "I only hear my own opinions! Disagreeing with me is eeeevil!"

And then I stopped reading, because any opinion that refuses to even hear other opinions, let alone understand them, deserves to be treated the same way.

Call me when you stop fearing other people's freedom.