Is it moral to let innocent people die rather than harmlessly waterboard 3 terrorist killers....

[2aguy]

this is the question that we face....which is more immoral....using the humane technique of water boarding against only 3 terrorist mass murderers.....or let innocent men, women and children die painful, horrifying deaths....that is the question that is being ignored in the threads on this debate....

Waterboarding is humane, it leaves no permanent damage, no lasting harm, it does not damage the body in any way and does not kill the monster, it was stopped when the 3 monsters cooperated, and...it saved innocent lives....

Here is a look at that issue....

Articles The Torture Report and the Usual Suspects

And, while we do not use EITs as a rule, there are times we all have to ask ourselves: is it moral to let innocent Americans die instead of subjecting a proven, unrepentant killer to harsh interrogation if it will save lives? At that point, it is perfectly legitimate to ask “Whose life is worth more?”

If DiFi has a granddaughter who had been kidnapped and was slated to die in 24 hours and they had the kidnapper in custody, would she let her granddaughter die rather than push the envelope with the kidnapper? I doubt it. I’m sorry if that hurts the feelings of people who live in a black and white world but sometimes you deal in shades of grey. It isn’t pretty, but soetimes necessary -- even for those of us who normally take the moral high ground -- and something we have to live with. We aren’t talking about rounding innocent people up, detaining, and torturing them, cutting off limbs, flaying them, beating them, shocking them.

We are talking about gleaning information from the enemy -- people who killed thousands of innocents and who will continue to kill if we don’t stop them, even if stopping them means asking for information with a little more encouragement than “pretty please with a cherry on top.” Encouragement. Pressured. Uncomfortable. Seemingly endless, but not life threatening. Not physically and permanently damaging.

The Feinstein report included as torture: sleep deprivation, exposure to loud music, humiliation, and waterboarding. Sounds like college life to me. And while I’m not aware of any waterboarding at the university level supervised by doctors with many restrictions as to its implementation, I can’t help but wonder if the drinking and drug games indulged in by America’s progeny aren’t, at least, just as bad?

 

[WinterBorn]

Why not ask if it is moral to allow 3 terrorists to live and 10 innocent people die?

The question actually is a bit different. Do we hold ourselves to a higher standard? Is a better question.

 

[2aguy]

Why not ask if it is moral to allow 3 terrorists to live and 10 innocent people die?

No. If possible, they should be killed....especially if it will save the lives of those 10 innocent people.

 

[2aguy]

At the same time....my question is important....waterboarding harms no one....it is harmless, and actually got ksm to give up all the operational details on al queda...so we aren't even talking about killing anyone to save lives....not even maiming or permanently harming them...to save lives.....

 

[JakeStarkey]

One, torture is immoral.

Two, 183 simulated drownings over several torture periods is not harmless.

 

[Roadrunner]

One, torture is immoral.

Two, 183 simulated drownings over several torture periods is not harmless.

Neither was KSM, the beheader of Danny Pearl.

Anybody here want to defend KSM?

And when is the trial in NYC Holder and Obama promised?

 

[August West]

What happens when one terror suspect goes off the grid? To be on the safe side the terrorists change things so the captured man knows nothing. Even if he does talk he knows nothing.

 

[007]

One, torture is immoral.

Two, 183 simulated drownings over several torture periods is not harmless.

One, water boarding isn't torture.

Two, keep up defending terrorists while throwing your own nation under the bus, Fake. It reinforces what most here already know, and that's that you're a filthy little progtard.

 

[rightwinger]

Is it moral to torture 100 people in the hope that one may provide you with information?

 

[2aguy]

Two, 183 simulated drownings over several torture periods is not harmless.

Do you even know what that means...no, because you just spouted libtard propaganda....what is the simulated drowning...the CIA was allowed to only pour water onto the cloth for so many seconds...and ksm knew it and counted the seconds off on his hands as they did it....then they had to stop, let him up and have the doctor check him...and they were only allowed to pour the water so many times a day.....each pour is what the liars in the media count as the 183 times....they don't dunk the guy, they dribble water on him....

He was in no physical danger, they poured water on a cloth, the water filled his sinus cavities and dribbled down his throat...that is the "impression of drowning" that water boarding is...it is completely harmless, does not maim or kill....and they are not harmed in any way....

Do you want to know what it sort of feels like....if you have allergies you know...because you may be using a sinus rinse bottle....it is like that....

 

[2aguy]

Is it moral to torture 100 people in the hope that one may provide you with information?

Innocent people...or people we don't know if they are terrorists or not....no......

But....these guys are not hiding what they are.....they are openly declaring their participation in jihad...aren't they? They are proud of it and glorify in it....so please...we are not grabbing up innocent people and torturing them....

we are capturing unlawful combatants in war zones...monsters who have raped, tortured and murdered innocent men, women and children....

They only interrogated the ones they knew were terrorists....and they can do that to them all day long....to save innocent people.....

 

[2aguy]

What happens when one terror suspect goes off the grid? To be on the safe side the terrorists change things so the captured man knows nothing. Even if he does talk he knows nothing.

Not sure what you mean here? What do you mean by "off the grid?"

And their is an extensive questioning process, they don't immediately go to the enhanced techniques...unlike what the libs say....

 

[Wake]

If lack of torture means the death of thousands of innocents, then that is what it is.

 

[dblack]

My concern isn't with terrorists being tortured, but with unconvicted (potentially innocent) suspects being tortured. Sacrificing due process has been the greatest cost associated with Gitmo and the whole "unlawful combatants" nonsense.

 

[dblack]

Just as minimum wage highlights liberal idiocy, terrorism shines a light on conservative nitwits.

 

[2aguy]

My concern isn't with terrorists being tortured, but with unconvicted (potentially innocent) suspects being tortured. Sacrificing due process has been the greatest cost associated with Gitmo and the whole "unlawful combatants" nonsense.

But there is "due" process....they aren't just grabbed up and shipped to gitmo...there is an interrogation and interview process on the guys sent there...and from the number of these guys who have been released and gone back to killing people, the process is pretty accurate...

And none of them were tortured by what we know as torture....that is a lib lie...only 3 were water boarded, the 3 leaders of al queda that were captured....no one else was water boarded....

 

[2aguy]

What the libs fail to see is that there is no way to take these guys to a civilian court...they are prisoners captured on a battlefield...there are no rules of evidence...and there is no way to analyze a "crime" scene....those who want criminal trials just don't get the reality with these guys....

 

[Wake]

If waterboarding meant saving the lives of my people I would do it in a heartbeat.

Sometimes, in order to do the right thing, you have to do rough things.

I don't want another 9/11. Don't get in the way of trying to prevent it.

 

[2aguy]

If waterboarding meant saving the lives of my people I would do it in a heartbeat.
Sometimes, in order to do the right thing, you have to do rough things.

Exactly.

 

[dblack]

If waterboarding meant saving the lives of my people I would do it in a heartbeat.

Sometimes, in order to do the right thing, you have to do rough things.

I don't want another 9/11. Don't get in the way of trying to prevent it.

In terms of a personal decision, I'd do likewise. I'd never want to see torture legitimized as state policy, however.

I view torture in much the same way Heinlein viewed the death penalty (at least as voice by some of his characters). That is, the death penalty is sometimes the right thing to do, but it should never be carried out by the state, only by individuals - who must then be willing to justify their actions in court.