Is it God or Nature?

[MarcATL]

hahhahaha
there is no god--no one can prove it = there's your answer--yes--stuff happens in nature without god
...you like how I answered your question? your welcome

I take it you're a subscriber to the big bang theory, yes?

 

[james bond]

Is this Covid-19 pandemic a result of God's actions, or an ecological/biological/sociological process that reflects Nature?

If God, then why?
If Nature, is it a "correction" in the balance of life among the human species?
Survival of the "fittest" ... and rich/powerful (access to life-saving resources)?

Perhaps population density, some foul sanitary/eating habits, and easy global travel opportunities are "correcting" overpopulation of humans?
Maybe God wants to give non-human animals a break?
What say you?

God is nature.
God created us in his image and gave us stewardship over his creation. Overpopulation is not a problem here. The things you mention in your second paragraph are examples of our poor stewardship. Therefore we are punished.

God is nature is a pantheistic world view. How can the painter be the painting?

False comparison.

Pantheism doesn't say "G-d is nature" rather the other way around "Nature is G-d".
That's a totally different perspective, namely that G-d is confined by nature and not beyond.

A painting once drawn doesn't require the painter to exist.
Not so with creation which is entirely dependent on G-d to constantly renew, recreate it,
each moment anew into existence.

Lol, you are splitting hairs. Same difference.

No, rylah is correct. Nature is God is pantheism. Then God is limited to the natural world. While God is nature is true like you state, it could just be a subset of God. God is more than nature because he also encompasses the supernatural beyond time and space. Multiverses were disproved, so the atheist scientists like Brian Greene hypothesize that there are more than 10 dimensions. These theoretical physicists are nutballers.

 

[MarcATL]

I believe God is here to help us throughout our physical existence, which is already challenging enough without a higher being having to throw any additional rocks at us.

Wait...what? Are you pitting God against some other "higher being?"

 

[rylah]

Is this Covid-19 pandemic a result of God's actions, or an ecological/biological/sociological process that reflects Nature?

If God, then why?
If Nature, is it a "correction" in the balance of life among the human species?
Survival of the "fittest" ... and rich/powerful (access to life-saving resources)?

Perhaps population density, some foul sanitary/eating habits, and easy global travel opportunities are "correcting" overpopulation of humans?
Maybe God wants to give non-human animals a break?
What say you?

God is nature.
God created us in his image and gave us stewardship over his creation. Overpopulation is not a problem here. The things you mention in your second paragraph are examples of our poor stewardship. Therefore we are punished.

God is nature is a pantheistic world view. How can the painter be the painting?

False comparison.

Pantheism doesn't say "G-d is nature" rather the other way around "Nature is G-d".
That's a totally different perspective, namely that G-d is confined by nature and not beyond.

A painting once drawn doesn't require the painter to exist.
Not so with creation which is entirely dependent on G-d to constantly renew, recreate it,
each moment anew into existence.

Lol, you are splitting hairs. Same difference.

Not at all,
resorting to void terms of their meaning in such an infantile almost cartoon-ish manner,
in a attempt to hide one's superficial (mis)understanding, is merely an insecurity-fueled avoidance of the complexity of the terms in use.

It's no different from one pretending to participate in such a discussion,
while grasping at an absolute assumption that "G-d doesn't exist",
in a religiously-blind manner.

Same superficial level.

 

[there4eyeM]

What is interesting is the people who insist the Constitution doesn't change when it is painfully obvious the grammar most certainly has.

 

[there4eyeM]

Any definition of 'God' limits what could not, by definition, be limited. See what is happening in that sentence?
This is one of the limits of language, and our inability to think outside of internal dialog.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Is it God or Nature?
※→ rylah, , et al,

BLUF: The question of the existence of the Supreme Being is one of the most volatile discussions you might engage. And, it is a double-edged sword to both sides.

Not at all, resorting to void terms of their meaning in such an infantile almost cartoon-ish manner, in a attempt to hide one's superficial (mis)understanding, is merely an insecurity-fueled avoidance of the complexity of the terms in use.

It's no different from one pretending to participate in such a discussion, while grasping at an absolute assumption that "G-d doesn't exist", in a religiously-blind manner.

Same superficial level.

(COMMENT)

Much of the world population believes in one doctrine that there is only one Supreme Being. But in believing in this doctrine, you open the door to the possibility of the supernatural. But much of the world follows the philosophical path in the supremacy of one deity (their deity) and denying the existence of concepts and supernatural entities. In discussing this topic, many friendships have been ruined and many serious feuds started without and results.

The Standford Encyclopedia of Philosophy has a 2019 published entity titled "God and Other Necessary Beings" which I found most interesting and an enlightened perspective. I love that title because it implies other supernatural beings.

There is a word that I came to appreciate → apparition: The observation of an event that is truly remarkable including the unexpected appearance of the unexplainable.

Socrates said that if you could see the Earth from space, you would recognize “that is the real heaven and the real light and the real earth."​

--- Plato...Student of Socrates
Athenian Philosopher
Ancient Greece​

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[rylah]

RE: Is it God or Nature?
※→ rylah, , et al,

BLUF: The question of the existence of the Supreme Being is one of the most volatile discussions you might engage. And, it is a double-edged sword to both sides.

Not at all, resorting to void terms of their meaning in such an infantile almost cartoon-ish manner, in a attempt to hide one's superficial (mis)understanding, is merely an insecurity-fueled avoidance of the complexity of the terms in use.

It's no different from one pretending to participate in such a discussion, while grasping at an absolute assumption that "G-d doesn't exist", in a religiously-blind manner.

Same superficial level.

(COMMENT)

Much of the world population believes in one doctrine that there is only one Supreme Being. But in believing in this doctrine, you open the door to the possibility of the supernatural. But much of the world follows the philosophical path in the supremacy of one deity (their deity) and denying the existence of concepts and supernatural entities. In discussing this topic, many friendships have been ruined and many serious feuds started without and results.

The Standford Encyclopedia of Philosophy has a 2019 published entity titled "God and Other Necessary Beings" which I found most interesting and an enlightened perspective. I love that title because it implies other supernatural beings.

There is a word that I came to appreciate → apparition: The observation of an event that is truly remarkable including the unexpected appearance of the unexplainable.

Socrates said that if you could see the Earth from space, you would recognize “that is the real heaven and the real light and the real earth."​

--- Plato...Student of Socrates
Athenian Philosopher
Ancient Greece​

Most Respectfully,
R

I'm not sure I'm getting to the bottom of Your thought,
but I'll further ponder on it.

In the meantime, what I can say, is that I have the privilege to be born an offspring of the family of Abraham Avinu A"H, who in a very young age, while being a son of an idol maker, observed the various forms of worship that existed, including the vast powers of nature, intuitively reached a striking conclusion that would change the world forever - that the only G-d worth worshiping is that which is the source of all. Namely, no matter what powers or gods one may cling to, all is manifestation (not sure the correct word) of One single source to all of them. That no matter whom You bring before Abraham A"H - His G-d is always and infinitely above and beyond - the source of all and everything.

This was not in an arrogant infantile competitive manner, aka "my god is bigger than yours'
rather a fundamental realization of ultimate truth - that true G-d can't be confined.
This is the beginning of Unifying G-d.

That said the Name in which G-d revealed to Abraham Avinu A"H was still attached, in way, to the laws of nature as the highest power which can 'rob its systems'. Later, G-d revealed Himself to Israel in His ultimate Name that is the source of all existence.

Mind You, this was all during times in a world that was virtually all Pagan, a revolutionary realization that simply couldn't be grasped by all the families of nations, though respected, they as a result essentially even called Israel atheists.

Another point is , our sages instead of wholly rejecting and cancelling the thought that there's truth to all other concepts of God among the nations, naturally in line of what I've described above, always tried to rationalize, find the sparks of truth in every one of them, and neither the language of Torah void of recognition of various gods and powers for that purpose.

Which brings me a final point - that realization of 'only one single Supreme Being', is relatively a new idea that has spread to the world almost simultaneously with the destruction of the 2nd Temple and the Shechinah (Presence/Knowledge/Consciousness) of G-d being exiled with Israel and out of the widely apparent felt presence that once manifested in Paganism - interestingly coinciding with the beginning of Philosophy.

However, even that realization of Oneness, Singularity is still not the ultimate goal,
rather the last stage preceding that for which Torah was given, and with which Israel was burdened - Unification of G-d. As it's not enough for mere realization of a Singularity, when knowledge of G-d is still divided between the various versions and forms known to mankind.
That is the ultimate purpose of Tikkun 'Olam - Correction of mankind and the world as a whole through knowledge of G-d's Unity.

Though it may seem as I'm merely splitting hairs with semantics, nevertheless essential,
for the ultimate conclusion of a journey for the world as initiated with Abraham Avinu A"H.

(RoccoR just edited some parts)

 

[Meriweather]

Wait...what? Are you pitting God against some other "higher being?"

No....and I am completely flummoxed on how you reached that conclusion.

 

[Meriweather]

That’s a good view. So how does God communicate with you to reveal new things, a greater way, mistakes made, lessons learned, etc?

Through prayer. Offhand, I cannot recall the specific Biblical passage, where God tells us to come to Him with our words. Then there is contemplative prayer, where one simply clears the mind and asks God to work within. And, of course, there is meditative prayer where focusing on the theme and lessons of particular Biblical passages can also bring insight. Throughout all forms, it is vital to take time to listen in silence.

 

[ding]

That’s a good view. So how does God communicate with you to reveal new things, a greater way, mistakes made, lessons learned, etc?

Through prayer. Offhand, I cannot recall the specific Biblical passage, where God tells us to come to Him with our words. Then there is contemplative prayer, where one simply clears the mind and asks God to work within. And, of course, there is meditative prayer where focusing on the theme and lessons of particular Biblical passages can also bring insight. Throughout all forms, it is vital to take time to listen in silence.

How does God work within?

 

[james bond]

Offhand, I cannot recall the specific Biblical passage, where God tells us to come to Him with our words.

There are many verses like that as it's important. One, I like is:

"Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.” Matthew 11:28-30

Or I say to you, "Jesus is Lord.":

'For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”' Romans 10:13

 

[Meriweather]

How does God work within?

The better question might be how does one work with God? It starts from within, that seed the size of a mustard seed. The seed sprouts, it needs careful tending, it leads to thoughts, words, actions, habits, destiny.

 

[harmonica]

hahhahaha
there is no god--no one can prove it = there's your answer--yes--stuff happens in nature without god
...you like how I answered your question? your welcome

I take it you're a subscriber to the big bang theory, yes?

..I'm a subscriber to if it's not proven = bullshit --not true

 

[harmonica]

Is this Covid-19 pandemic a result of God's actions, or an ecological/biological/sociological process that reflects Nature?

If God, then why?
If Nature, is it a "correction" in the balance of life among the human species?
Survival of the "fittest" ... and rich/powerful (access to life-saving resources)?

Perhaps population density, some foul sanitary/eating habits, and easy global travel opportunities are "correcting" overpopulation of humans?
Maybe God wants to give non-human animals a break?
What say you?

God is nature.
God created us in his image and gave us stewardship over his creation. Overpopulation is not a problem here. The things you mention in your second paragraph are examples of our poor stewardship. Therefore we are punished.

God is nature is a pantheistic world view. How can the painter be the painting?

Excellent point. Pantheism is completely illogical. I think it's probably a way for some people to have their cake and eat it too. They can have a form of spirituality, while avoiding the accountability that inevitably goes along with a transcendent personal Creator.

poor grammar in your post here...do you know what it is?????!!!!

Oh, DON'T start that again.

After my post to him, to get back at me he went through ALL my recent posts on different threads, to accuse me of grammatical errors. Whatever, dude.

hahahhaa--to get back???hahhahah
to prove my point--you are not perfect--no one is
..for you to think that makes you ''not perfect''
hahahhahahahahahah
no accusing--you did/do make grammatical errors

 

[ding]

How does God work within?

The better question might be how does one work with God? It starts from within, that seed the size of a mustard seed. The seed sprouts, it needs careful tending, it leads to thoughts, words, actions, habits, destiny.

Yes, that is certainly a more useful answer.

I’m just trying to understand the role God plays in your life from a practical aspect point of view. And by that I mean to say how does he make his presence and will known to you?

 

[ding]

hahhahaha
there is no god--no one can prove it = there's your answer--yes--stuff happens in nature without god
...you like how I answered your question? your welcome

I take it you're a subscriber to the big bang theory, yes?

..I'm a subscriber to if it's not proven = bullshit --not true

Well it’s been proven that the universe literally popped into existence ~14 billion years ago and was created from nothing.

If that doesn’t give you pause for concern, I don’t know what will.

 

[harmonica]

hahhahaha
there is no god--no one can prove it = there's your answer--yes--stuff happens in nature without god
...you like how I answered your question? your welcome

I take it you're a subscriber to the big bang theory, yes?

..I'm a subscriber to if it's not proven = bullshit --not true

Well it’s been proven that the universe literally popped into existence ~14 billion years ago and was created from nothing.

If that doesn’t give you pause for concern, I don’t know what will.

where is the proof of god?

 

[ding]

Is this Covid-19 pandemic a result of God's actions, or an ecological/biological/sociological process that reflects Nature?

If God, then why?
If Nature, is it a "correction" in the balance of life among the human species?
Survival of the "fittest" ... and rich/powerful (access to life-saving resources)?

Perhaps population density, some foul sanitary/eating habits, and easy global travel opportunities are "correcting" overpopulation of humans?
Maybe God wants to give non-human animals a break?
What say you?

God is nature.
God created us in his image and gave us stewardship over his creation. Overpopulation is not a problem here. The things you mention in your second paragraph are examples of our poor stewardship. Therefore we are punished.

God is nature is a pantheistic world view. How can the painter be the painting?

False comparison.

Pantheism doesn't say "G-d is nature" rather the other way around "Nature is G-d".
That's a totally different perspective, namely that G-d is confined by nature and not beyond.

A painting once drawn doesn't require the painter to exist.
Not so with creation which is entirely dependent on G-d to constantly renew, recreate it,
each moment anew into existence.

Lol, you are splitting hairs. Same difference.

Not at all,
resorting to void terms of their meaning in such an infantile almost cartoon-ish manner,
in a attempt to hide one's superficial (mis)understanding, is merely an insecurity-fueled avoidance of the complexity of the terms in use.

It's no different from one pretending to participate in such a discussion,
while grasping at an absolute assumption that "G-d doesn't exist",
in a religiously-blind manner.

Same superficial level.

There is nothing cartoonish about the equivalence of saying God is nature and nature is God. A=B is the same as saying B=A.

I understand what I am saying very well despite your objections which are bordering on childish. Try having an adult conversation. In fact research transactional analysis to see how adults discuss things.

I am not insecure or being superficial when I say there is no difference between A=B and B=A. I am being logical.

And my understanding of the nature of God has been informed by my study of what God created and from my personal relationship with God. So I am not grasping at anything and I have been most conscientious and thoughtful in my study. Which is more than I can say for your behaviors in this conversation.

God exists outside of nature. God exists outside of space and time. God is beyond energy and matter. I know this because matter and energy cannot exist outside of space and time because the presence of matter and energy creates space and time. I know God is eternal because an infinite regression of material events is impossible because matter and energy cannot be eternal without reaching thermal equilibrium. So whatever the first cause is it must be beyond matter and energy.

The closest I can come to describing God is consciousness without form.

 

[ding]

hahhahaha
there is no god--no one can prove it = there's your answer--yes--stuff happens in nature without god
...you like how I answered your question? your welcome

I take it you're a subscriber to the big bang theory, yes?

..I'm a subscriber to if it's not proven = bullshit --not true

Well it’s been proven that the universe literally popped into existence ~14 billion years ago and was created from nothing.

If that doesn’t give you pause for concern, I don’t know what will.

where is the proof of god?

Existence is your proof. It is literally all around you.