Is it God or Nature?

ViewFromAbove

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Is this Covid-19 pandemic a result of God's actions, or an ecological/biological/sociological process that reflects Nature?

If God, then why?
If Nature, is it a "correction" in the balance of life among the human species?
Survival of the "fittest" ... and rich/powerful (access to life-saving resources)?

Perhaps population density, some foul sanitary/eating habits, and easy global travel opportunities are "correcting" overpopulation of humans?
Maybe God wants to give non-human animals a break?
What say you?
 

progressive hunter

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Is this Covid-19 pandemic a result of God's actions, or an ecological/biological/sociological process that reflects Nature?

If God, then why?
If Nature, is it a "correction" in the balance of life among the human species?
Survival of the "fittest" ... and rich/powerful (access to life-saving resources)?

Perhaps population density, some foul sanitary/eating habits, and easy global travel opportunities are "correcting" overpopulation of humans?
Maybe God wants to give non-human animals a break?
What say you?
its no different than a pack of lions in nature,,,

anyone thinking we are top of the food chain is sadly mistaken,,,
 

Pogo

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Is this Covid-19 pandemic a result of God's actions, or an ecological/biological/sociological process that reflects Nature?

If God, then why?
If Nature, is it a "correction" in the balance of life among the human species?
Survival of the "fittest" ... and rich/powerful (access to life-saving resources)?

Perhaps population density, some foul sanitary/eating habits, and easy global travel opportunities are "correcting" overpopulation of humans?
Maybe God wants to give non-human animals a break?
What say you?
Why would there have to be a "reasoning" behind it?

Start there.
 

ding

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Is this Covid-19 pandemic a result of God's actions, or an ecological/biological/sociological process that reflects Nature?

If God, then why?
If Nature, is it a "correction" in the balance of life among the human species?
Survival of the "fittest" ... and rich/powerful (access to life-saving resources)?

Perhaps population density, some foul sanitary/eating habits, and easy global travel opportunities are "correcting" overpopulation of humans?
Maybe God wants to give non-human animals a break?
What say you?
Why does it matter?
 
OP
ViewFromAbove

ViewFromAbove

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Is this Covid-19 pandemic a result of God's actions, or an ecological/biological/sociological process that reflects Nature?

If God, then why?
If Nature, is it a "correction" in the balance of life among the human species?
Survival of the "fittest" ... and rich/powerful (access to life-saving resources)?

Perhaps population density, some foul sanitary/eating habits, and easy global travel opportunities are "correcting" overpopulation of humans?
Maybe God wants to give non-human animals a break?
What say you?
Why would there have to be a "reasoning" behind it?

Start there.
There is a "reason", however, aka "explanation".
Philosophers & scientists look for explanations, no?
For example, "How did the pandemic originate, and how did it spread so quickly?"
 
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ViewFromAbove

ViewFromAbove

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Is this Covid-19 pandemic a result of God's actions, or an ecological/biological/sociological process that reflects Nature?

If God, then why?
If Nature, is it a "correction" in the balance of life among the human species?
Survival of the "fittest" ... and rich/powerful (access to life-saving resources)?

Perhaps population density, some foul sanitary/eating habits, and easy global travel opportunities are "correcting" overpopulation of humans?
Maybe God wants to give non-human animals a break?
What say you?
Why does it matter?
Maybe responsible humans can learn to avoid future pandemics, or you don't care?
 

MarcATL

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Is this Covid-19 pandemic a result of God's actions, or an ecological/biological/sociological process that reflects Nature?

If God, then why?
If Nature, is it a "correction" in the balance of life among the human species?
Survival of the "fittest" ... and rich/powerful (access to life-saving resources)?

Perhaps population density, some foul sanitary/eating habits, and easy global travel opportunities are "correcting" overpopulation of humans?
Maybe God wants to give non-human animals a break?
What say you?
How about, why not God?

What say you?
 

ding

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Is this Covid-19 pandemic a result of God's actions, or an ecological/biological/sociological process that reflects Nature?

If God, then why?
If Nature, is it a "correction" in the balance of life among the human species?
Survival of the "fittest" ... and rich/powerful (access to life-saving resources)?

Perhaps population density, some foul sanitary/eating habits, and easy global travel opportunities are "correcting" overpopulation of humans?
Maybe God wants to give non-human animals a break?
What say you?
Why does it matter?
Maybe responsible humans can learn to avoid future pandemics, or you don't care?
I doubt my caring or not caring will change anything.

Since I don’t have the virus I must have learned something.
 
OP
ViewFromAbove

ViewFromAbove

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Is this Covid-19 pandemic a result of God's actions, or an ecological/biological/sociological process that reflects Nature?

If God, then why?
If Nature, is it a "correction" in the balance of life among the human species?
Survival of the "fittest" ... and rich/powerful (access to life-saving resources)?

Perhaps population density, some foul sanitary/eating habits, and easy global travel opportunities are "correcting" overpopulation of humans?
Maybe God wants to give non-human animals a break?
What say you?
How about, why not God?

What say you?
You first. Is God punishing us?
Me next. Why would He? I doubt that.
 

ding

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Is this Covid-19 pandemic a result of God's actions, or an ecological/biological/sociological process that reflects Nature?

If God, then why?
If Nature, is it a "correction" in the balance of life among the human species?
Survival of the "fittest" ... and rich/powerful (access to life-saving resources)?

Perhaps population density, some foul sanitary/eating habits, and easy global travel opportunities are "correcting" overpopulation of humans?
Maybe God wants to give non-human animals a break?
What say you?
How about, why not God?

What say you?
You first. Is God punishing us?
Me next. Why would He? I doubt that.
Do you believe God exists?
 

buttercup

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Is this Covid-19 pandemic a result of God's actions, or an ecological/biological/sociological process that reflects Nature?

If God, then why?
If Nature, is it a "correction" in the balance of life among the human species?
Survival of the "fittest" ... and rich/powerful (access to life-saving resources)?

Perhaps population density, some foul sanitary/eating habits, and easy global travel opportunities are "correcting" overpopulation of humans?
Maybe God wants to give non-human animals a break?
What say you?
Good question. IF the official reason for how these viruses start is true, then yes, I would say that this is a consequence of mankind going against God's perfect will. In other words, reaping what we sow. Eating animals was not part of God's original design, and it is not part of God's eternal plan, according to the bible. It is something that mankind does because this is a fallen world, and simply because people want to do it, despite the numerous negative consequences, both on an individual and global scale.

People like to say "Well this happened because the Chinese eat weird things and they have filthy conditions in their markets." But the truth that no one wants to talk about is that even here in the Western world, the conditions are horrible in the animal industries, filthy and disgusting, and many of the animals are sick. That is why the animals are given antibiotics, but the problem is that antibiotic resistance occurs, so sometimes infections become untreatable, and then people eat those sick animals. I know that people don't want to believe that, but keep in mind that animals are literally standing in their own feces, some have open wounds, prolapses, some have abscesses filled with pus, I could go on, but hopefully you get the point. As a vegan and a Christian I absolutely believe that God wants us to give nonhuman animals a rest. I think we're getting very near that time of "rest", but that's a different topic.

Again, all that is assuming that the official reason is actually true. As I'm sure people realize, there are different theories about how it originated, including some very controversial theories.
 
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ViewFromAbove

ViewFromAbove

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Is this Covid-19 pandemic a result of God's actions, or an ecological/biological/sociological process that reflects Nature?

If God, then why?
If Nature, is it a "correction" in the balance of life among the human species?
Survival of the "fittest" ... and rich/powerful (access to life-saving resources)?

Perhaps population density, some foul sanitary/eating habits, and easy global travel opportunities are "correcting" overpopulation of humans?
Maybe God wants to give non-human animals a break?
What say you?
How about, why not God?

What say you?
You first. Is God punishing us?
Me next. Why would He? I doubt that.
Do you believe God exists?
Do you? If so, why the pandemic?
I'm undecided, but Nature seems to make more sense than a benevolent God.
I'll keep my philosophical mind open, however.
 
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ViewFromAbove

ViewFromAbove

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Is this Covid-19 pandemic a result of God's actions, or an ecological/biological/sociological process that reflects Nature?

If God, then why?
If Nature, is it a "correction" in the balance of life among the human species?
Survival of the "fittest" ... and rich/powerful (access to life-saving resources)?

Perhaps population density, some foul sanitary/eating habits, and easy global travel opportunities are "correcting" overpopulation of humans?
Maybe God wants to give non-human animals a break?
What say you?
Good question. IF the official reason for how these viruses start is true, then yes, I would say that this is a consequence of mankind going against God's perfect will. In other words, reaping what we sow. Eating animals was not part of God's original design, and it is not part of God's eternal plan, according to the bible. It is something that mankind does because this is a fallen world, and simply because people want to do it, despite the numerous negative consequences, both on an individual and global scale.

People like to say "Well this happened because the Chinese eat weird things and they have filthy conditions in their markets." But the truth that no one wants to talk about is that even here in the Western world, the conditions are horrible in the animal industries, filthy and disgusting, and many of the animals are sick. That is why the animals are given antibiotics, but the problem is that antibiotic resistance occurs, so sometimes infections become untreatable, and then people eat those sick animals. I know that people don't want to believe that, but keep in mind that animals are literally standing in their own feces, some have open wounds, prolapses, some have abscesses filled with pus, I could go on, but hopefully you get the point. As a vegan and a Christian I absolutely believe that God wants us to give nonhuman animals a rest. I think we're getting very near that time of "rest", but that's a different topic.

Again, all that is assuming that the official reason is actually true. As I'm sure people realize, there are different theories about how it originated, including some very controversial theories.
I agree that ALL sentient animals should be treated with respect.
 

ding

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Is this Covid-19 pandemic a result of God's actions, or an ecological/biological/sociological process that reflects Nature?

If God, then why?
If Nature, is it a "correction" in the balance of life among the human species?
Survival of the "fittest" ... and rich/powerful (access to life-saving resources)?

Perhaps population density, some foul sanitary/eating habits, and easy global travel opportunities are "correcting" overpopulation of humans?
Maybe God wants to give non-human animals a break?
What say you?
How about, why not God?

What say you?
You first. Is God punishing us?
Me next. Why would He? I doubt that.
Do you believe God exists?
Do you? If so, why the pandemic?
I'm undecided, but Nature seems to make more sense than a benevolent God.
I'll keep my philosophical mind open, however.
I’m not the one asking if it is God or nature.

If you don’t believe God exists, then you don’t really have a choice in your answer.
 

task0778

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Is it God or Nature?

First of all, let's acknowledge that the question has no validity for an individual that does not believe in God. For them it's all random chaos and sometimes shit happens. For the rest of us, it has to vary according to our beliefs as to who/what God is, and what is the reasoning or meaning behind all creation, including but not limited to US. Obviously there is no proof, so it comes down to what your opinions are on the matter.

Me? I think God has created this universe and then allowed us to develop and grow in it, sort of a big playpen. Since we have cognitive abilities and imagination, God has elected to more or less leave us to our own devices and suffer through whatever Nature throws at us. Does he protect us from some cataclysmic events that would have destroyed the entire planet? Does he deliberately create things like COVID-19, or allow it to happen, thereby teaching us certain life lessons if we are ready to learn them. How would we know one way or the other? Maybe we are left to fix our own problems and overcome our weaknesses, and eventually master our environment.

I don't see the logic of blaming God for our own mistakes or failures. Maybe instead of spending time, money, and blood fighting wars we shoulda been developing and testing treatments, vaccines, and cures. Maybe we shoulda been prepared for such catastrophes before they happen; whose fault is it that we weren't? God's? Or ours?
 

MarcATL

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You first. Is God punishing us?
Me next. Why would He? I doubt that.
This questions isn't just a quick one-two-three.

First it depends on one's understanding of God.

But, to not drag it out, no, He's not.

However, Are we, as in humans, dealing w/the consequences of our actions...?

Most definitely.
 

Death Angel

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As a vegan and a Christian I absolutely believe that God wants us to give nonhuman animals a rest. I think we're getting very near that time of "rest", but that's a different topic
God's thousand year Sabbath rest is coming. Man has not been kind to his own kind, nor the creatures he was tasked with CARING for. The evil age of Man is coming to an end. God will soon take back the world HE owns.
 

JimBowie1958

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The Romans had one plague after another when they got into international trade more because of their roads and stable government, Antonine Plague - Wikipedia

European stability in the 14th century and the extensive trade they established with China, and India through the ARabian middle East brought the Great Plague Black Death - Wikipedia

I think when you have wide spread multicontinental trade, extensive biological protections need to be established.
 

buttercup

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God's thousand year Sabbath rest is coming. Man has not been kind to his own kind, nor the creatures he was tasked with CARING for. The evil age of Man is coming to an end. God will soon take back the world HE owns.
I completely agree, and it can't come soon enough, as far as I'm concerned!
 

Tom Paine 1949

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Is it God or Nature?

First of all, let's acknowledge that the question has no validity for an individual that does not believe in God. For them it's all random chaos and sometimes shit happens. For the rest of us, it has to vary according to our beliefs as to who/what God is, and what is the reasoning or meaning behind all creation, including but not limited to US. Obviously there is no proof, so it comes down to what your opinions are on the matter.

Me? I think God has created this universe and then allowed us to develop and grow in it, sort of a big playpen. Since we have cognitive abilities and imagination, God has elected to more or less leave us to our own devices and suffer through whatever Nature throws at us. Does he protect us from some cataclysmic events that would have destroyed the entire planet? Does he deliberately create things like COVID-19, or allow it to happen, thereby teaching us certain life lessons if we are ready to learn them. How would we know one way or the other? Maybe we are left to fix our own problems and overcome our weaknesses, and eventually master our environment.

I don't see the logic of blaming God for our own mistakes or failures. Maybe instead of spending time, money, and blood fighting wars we shoulda been developing and testing treatments, vaccines, and cures. Maybe we shoulda been prepared for such catastrophes before they happen; whose fault is it that we weren't? God's? Or ours?
Nicely put, sort of the way Enlightenment “Deists” (who influenced some of our Founding Fathers) might have put it. They talked about a “creator” who set up natural laws but did not interfere personally to alter them. Man’s reason allowed him to appreciate natural law and live in accordance with it.

However I think in our modern world non-theists and atheists can also feel awe at the mysterious power, even contradictory powers, of nature. Being human it should not be so hard to see divinity in nature, in life, even in ourselves. To separate “nature” from “god” doesn’t seem necessary to me. I think we can reject the superstitions of organized religion, respect reason and science, without seeing the world as being merely cold, chaotic and purposeless. It is not in our own nature to rejoice in death and disease, murder or cruelty, but we can accept them for what they are. We all die. We all can get twisted up and act “unnaturally.” Whether we speak of God’s Will or Nature’s ... this by itself need not change our way of life. Awe and respect for nature and life are, to me at least, worship of God.
 

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