Is climate change a "contentious" issue ? Really ?

[fncceo]

It ended 11,000 - 12,000 years ago

It didn't end overnight. The "end" of the Ice Age represents the peak of the cooling trend. It took several thousand years of gradual warming, as we see today, to roll back the glaciers.

 

[fncceo]

So, you're telilng us you have no idea when the last "ice age" was.

Of course I do. The last "Ice Age" was 2016.

... and it wasn't very good.

 

[ding]

8,000 years ago, when much of Europe and North America looked like this?

So, you're telilng us you have no idea when the last "ice age" was. Got it.

I'll give you a hint. It ended 11,000 - 12,000 years ago. Ice ages are followed by a very rapid warmup, then a slow cooldown into the next ice ago. The rapid warmup ended 6,000 - 8,000 years ago.

I don't think that's what he was saying. And your timing is not really correct. You need to look at the sea level data for that. I'd put the end of the last glacial period somewhere between 20 and 22 thousand years ago.

And I don't know how you are claiming the warm up ended 6k to 8k years ago. We are still in the interglacial cycle. The sea level is still rising. You will know when the next glacial cycle will begin when the sea level starts to drop. Just as you should have known that the last glacial period ended when the sea level first started to rise. This should be common sense. If you can't understand why this should be common sense, I will be happy to explain it to you and show how sequestration and release of CO2 by the ocean are signs of climate change. We can also discuss the role thermal expansion of the oceans plays in identifying the key dates.

Because all you are doing is playing word games with the data.

 

[ding]

So, you're telilng us you have no idea when the last "ice age" was.

Of course I do. The last "Ice Age" was 2016.

View attachment 407596

... and it wasn't very good.

donkeys loved it!

 

[ding]

It ended 11,000 - 12,000 years ago

It didn't end overnight. The "end" of the Ice Age represents the peak of the cooling trend. It took several thousand years of gradual warming, as we see today, to roll back the glaciers.

Right. The key demarcation are the fall and rise of sea level as this is the true indicator that the planet is cooling or heating up. Mamooth is making a disingenuous argument by trying to imply the planet started to cool down which is not supported by any evidence whatsoever. In fact, all one must do is look at the rise of the sea level to know the planet is still warming up from its last glacial cycle.

 

[ding]

I dispute your claim that's how.

That's nice. Go on and dispute the round earth theory too. You'll be just as wrong. Your feelings do not change reality.

Actually 580 ppm is not going to overheat the planet. 580 ppm will keep the planet from entering a glacial period. That's a good thing.

And again with your "We have to turn the furnace up to full blast in July!" stupidity. I hope you have someone else taking care of you, to stop you from making such bad choices.

I'm backing it up with evidence, dear. Just look at the sea level data. You will know when the interglacial period ends when the sea level starts to fall.

Tell me what is wrong with 580 ppm and I will tell you what is wrong with 400 ppm. I can promise you the bad things I will describe will dwarf what impacts you think 580 ppm will cause.

And for the record, regardless of our discussion, you can count on seeing 580 ppm in our lifetime. I am guessing you don't even know where the acceleration in carbon emissions is coming from or why.

 

[fncceo]

It ended 11,000 - 12,000 years ago

It didn't end overnight. The "end" of the Ice Age represents the peak of the cooling trend. It took several thousand years of gradual warming, as we see today, to roll back the glaciers.

Right. The key demarcation are the fall and rise of sea level as this is the true indicator that the planet is cooling or heating up. Mamooth is making a disingenuous argument by trying to imply the planet started to cool down which is not supported by any evidence whatsoever. In fact, all one must do is look at the rise of the sea level to know the planet is still warming up from its last glacial cycle.

During the entire period of global warming from the end of the last Ice Age, humans have gone from paleolithic, hunter-gatherer bands with a total global population in the 10's of thousands to a technically advanced, space-faring society numbering in the Billions.

During this period, humans created civilization, art, science, philosophy, and reality TV while the human life expectancy went from early 30s to nearly 100-years-old.

That is copious evidence that warming, to some degree, it good for us.

We shouldn't fear it, we should be embracing the warming.

 

[ding]

It ended 11,000 - 12,000 years ago

It didn't end overnight. The "end" of the Ice Age represents the peak of the cooling trend. It took several thousand years of gradual warming, as we see today, to roll back the glaciers.

Right. The key demarcation are the fall and rise of sea level as this is the true indicator that the planet is cooling or heating up. Mamooth is making a disingenuous argument by trying to imply the planet started to cool down which is not supported by any evidence whatsoever. In fact, all one must do is look at the rise of the sea level to know the planet is still warming up from its last glacial cycle.

During the entire period of global warming from the end of the last Ice Age, humans have gone from paleolithic, hunter-gatherer bands with a total global population in the 10's of thousands to a technically advanced, space-faring society numbering in the Billions.

During this period, humans created civilization, art, science, philosophy, and reality TV while the human life expectancy went from early 30s to nearly 100-years-old.

That is copious evidence that warming, to some degree, it good for us.

We shouldn't fear it, we should be embracing the warming.

View attachment 407611

You had me at the picture.

 

[ding]

I'm taking this argument to the next level.

It's time for a switch.

 

[mamooth]

And I don't know how you are claiming the warm up ended 6k to 8k years ago.

From the hard data. Note how current temperatures are now much higher than the holocene peak.

The sea level is still rising.

Not "still rising". After the rate of sea level rise fell to zero, it started rising rapidly again. That indicates the current fast sea level rise is not natural.

Your own graph debunked you conclusively. I'll let you know when I need you to prove me correct on any other points.

Just as you should have known that the last glacial period ended when the sea level first started to rise.

Again, your feelings have no bearing on what the science says.

Pleistocene - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

---
The Pleistocene ( /ˈplaɪs.təˌsiːn, -toʊ-/ PLYSE-tə-seen, -⁠toh-,[3] often colloquially referred to as the Ice Age) is the geological epoch that lasted from about 2,580,000 to 11,700 years ago, spanning the world's most recent period of repeated glaciations. The end of the Pleistocene corresponds with the end of the last glacial period and also with the end of the Paleolithic age used in archaeology.
---

I will be happy to explain it to you

In order to pull off the condescending act, you can't be clueless. That's why you can't do it. You try to bluff, but it's clear you don't know what you're talking about.

and show how sequestration and release of CO2 by the ocean are signs of climate change.

That should be hilarious. Please proceed.

 

[ding]

And I don't know how you are claiming the warm up ended 6k to 8k years ago.

From the hard data. Note how current temperatures are now much higher than the holocene peak.

The sea level is still rising.

Not "still rising". After the rate of sea level rise fell to zero, it started rising rapidly again. That indicates the current fast sea level rise is not natural.

Your own graph debunked you conclusively. I'll let you know when I need you to prove me correct on any other points.

Just as you should have known that the last glacial period ended when the sea level first started to rise.

Again, your feelings have no bearing on what the science says.

Pleistocene - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

---
The Pleistocene ( /ˈplaɪs.təˌsiːn, -toʊ-/ PLYSE-tə-seen, -⁠toh-,[3] often colloquially referred to as the Ice Age) is the geological epoch that lasted from about 2,580,000 to 11,700 years ago, spanning the world's most recent period of repeated glaciations. The end of the Pleistocene corresponds with the end of the last glacial period and also with the end of the Paleolithic age used in archaeology.
---

I will be happy to explain it to you

In order to pull off the condescending act, you can't be clueless. That's why you can't do it. You try to bluff, but it's clear you don't know what you're talking about.

and show how sequestration and release of CO2 by the ocean are signs of climate change.

That should be hilarious. Please proceed.

Honey, all you have to do is to look at the change in sea level. It's not that complicated.

See how they have a question mark after Climatic Optimum? There's a reason for that. If you are going to take the temperature of the planet all you have to do is look at sea level.

 

[ding]

And I don't know how you are claiming the warm up ended 6k to 8k years ago.

From the hard data. Note how current temperatures are now much higher than the holocene peak.

The sea level is still rising.

Not "still rising". After the rate of sea level rise fell to zero, it started rising rapidly again. That indicates the current fast sea level rise is not natural.

Your own graph debunked you conclusively. I'll let you know when I need you to prove me correct on any other points.

Just as you should have known that the last glacial period ended when the sea level first started to rise.

Again, your feelings have no bearing on what the science says.

Pleistocene - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

---
The Pleistocene ( /ˈplaɪs.təˌsiːn, -toʊ-/ PLYSE-tə-seen, -⁠toh-,[3] often colloquially referred to as the Ice Age) is the geological epoch that lasted from about 2,580,000 to 11,700 years ago, spanning the world's most recent period of repeated glaciations. The end of the Pleistocene corresponds with the end of the last glacial period and also with the end of the Paleolithic age used in archaeology.
---

I will be happy to explain it to you

In order to pull off the condescending act, you can't be clueless. That's why you can't do it. You try to bluff, but it's clear you don't know what you're talking about.

and show how sequestration and release of CO2 by the ocean are signs of climate change.

That should be hilarious. Please proceed.

You don't understand how the ocean sequesters and releases CO2?

 

[ding]

Using air temperature can be misleading. Just look at the saw tooth nature of each cycle. During any glacial or interglacial cycle there are variations in air temperature that would make one think a glacial cycle is warming up or an interglacial cycle is cooling down. So... using air temperature can lead to false trends where see level will not. There really is no better proxy for climate change than the seas.

 

[ding]

Bam!

 

[Oz and the Orchestra]

It ended 11,000 - 12,000 years ago

It didn't end overnight. The "end" of the Ice Age represents the peak of the cooling trend. It took several thousand years of gradual warming, as we see today, to roll back the glaciers.

Right. The key demarcation are the fall and rise of sea level as this is the true indicator that the planet is cooling or heating up. Mamooth is making a disingenuous argument by trying to imply the planet started to cool down which is not supported by any evidence whatsoever. In fact, all one must do is look at the rise of the sea level to know the planet is still warming up from its last glacial cycle.

During the entire period of global warming from the end of the last Ice Age, humans have gone from paleolithic, hunter-gatherer bands with a total global population in the 10's of thousands to a technically advanced, space-faring society numbering in the Billions.

During this period, humans created civilization, art, science, philosophy, and reality TV while the human life expectancy went from early 30s to nearly 100-years-old.

That is copious evidence that warming, to some degree, it good for us.

We shouldn't fear it, we should be embracing the warming.

View attachment 407611

Ha ha ha ha, are you crazy?
The warmer it gets the greater the volatility in the atmosphere.
We have already witnessed record-breaking temperatures. Forest fires across the globe more frequent and longer-lasting. Where has Paradise California gone? Australia every year records temps and more fires. Record temps in France and Greece now killing people. Hurricanes are more frequent as is flooding in places that never flooded before.

Though we all know that everything in the universe goes through cycles due to quantum effects from the subatomic, manifesting in our relative universe and causing the diversity and thus perhaps, it is all nature and nothing to do with man. When scientists almost universally are telling us that CO2's are a major influence and we are reaching the point of no return, we simply can't gamble without at least hedging our bets, For to do nothing would be total lunacy, we simply can't take the risk.

There is nothing to fear from transferring from a fossil fuel-based economy to a renewable energy economy.
Technology, as we go forward, will make it not only affordable but job-creating,

 

[Oz and the Orchestra]

It ended 11,000 - 12,000 years ago

It didn't end overnight. The "end" of the Ice Age represents the peak of the cooling trend. It took several thousand years of gradual warming, as we see today, to roll back the glaciers.

Right. The key demarcation are the fall and rise of sea level as this is the true indicator that the planet is cooling or heating up. Mamooth is making a disingenuous argument by trying to imply the planet started to cool down which is not supported by any evidence whatsoever. In fact, all one must do is look at the rise of the sea level to know the planet is still warming up from its last glacial cycle.

During the entire period of global warming from the end of the last Ice Age, humans have gone from paleolithic, hunter-gatherer bands with a total global population in the 10's of thousands to a technically advanced, space-faring society numbering in the Billions.

During this period, humans created civilization, art, science, philosophy, and reality TV while the human life expectancy went from early 30s to nearly 100-years-old.

That is copious evidence that warming, to some degree, it good for us.

We shouldn't fear it, we should be embracing the warming.

View attachment 407611

Ha ha ha ha, are you crazy?
The warmer it gets the greater the volatility in the atmosphere.
We have already witnessed record-breaking temperatures. Forest fires across the globe more frequent and longer-lasting. Where has Paradise California gone? Australia every year records temps and more fires. Record temps in France and Greece now killing people. Hurricanes are more frequent as is flooding in places that never flooded before.

Though we all know that everything in the universe goes through cycles due to quantum effects from the subatomic, manifesting in our relative universe and causing the diversity and thus perhaps, it is all nature and nothing to do with man. When scientists almost universally are telling us that CO2's are a major influence and we are reaching the point of no return, we simply can't gamble without at least hedging our bets, For to do nothing would be total lunacy, we simply can't take the risk.

There is nothing to fear from transferring from a fossil fuel-based economy to a renewable energy economy.
Technology, as we go forward, will make it not only affordable but job-creating,

 

[ding]

Except another ice age

 

[mamooth]

Honey, all you have to do is to look at the change in sea level. It's not that complicated.

Have you noticed how the whole scientific community disagrees with your kook definition of an ice age? Rest assured that everyone else has.

That's why you just faceplant when you try to pull off the condescending act. You're making stupid shit up, and it's obvious to everyone.

Go on. Show us you're not just faking it all. Show us one source that says ice ages are defined by when sea level starts changing.

You can run now.

 

[ding]

Honey, all you have to do is to look at the change in sea level. It's not that complicated.

Have you noticed how the whole scientific community disagrees with your kook definition of an ice age? Rest assured that everyone else has.

That's why you just faceplant when you try to pull off the condescending act. You're making stupid shit up, and it's obvious to everyone.

Go on. Show us you're not just faking it all. Show us one source that says ice ages are defined by when sea level starts changing.

You can run now.

No. I haven't noticed.

What do you believe determines whether the sea level rises or falls if not temperature. Are you telling me that you can't understand how the transition from a rising to falling sea level or a falling to rising sea level isn't a change in global climate?

Stop playing games. It's not a good look.

 

[fncceo]

"There is nothing to fear from transferring from a fossil fuel-based economy to a renewable energy economy."

If that transference occurs naturally when technology becomes available and viable, then that is true.

However, if markets are forced by legislation to adapt technology that will not provide our needs at the current level, or represents a significant increase in the cost of doing business, you will see economic downturn the likes of which we haven't seen for nearly 100 years.

Every product you have in your home got there by plane, train, or truck. In some cases, all three.

The vegetables and fruits you eat all year long depend on transportation to get from the farm to your table.

Large segments of the US (particularly in the Southwest) would not be habitable if not for air conditioning.

The fact is, wind and solar can provide an augment to our power grids, but they cannot replace them. A transition from fuel-based transportation to electric would see our demand for electricity skyrocket and the only non-carbon based alternative capable of providing that power would be nuclear. Today, nuclear power plants are being decommissioned at a faster pace then they are being built.

It's fine to aspire to a "green energy" future. But, we need to make sure that future doesn't become a new dark age.