We see the same wild swings in all of the data in the last glacial cycle. These are not anomalies. These are signs of how sensitive our planet is for northern hemisphere glaciation. It goes to show how precarious our climate is with our current land mass, ocean circulation and atmospheric configurations. Never before has the planet had a configuration like this. It is only a recent development. Every single piece of data points to a system that is poised for the triggering of bipolar glaciation. The rapid changes during the last ice age from cold to warm to cold again - over mere decades - can't be discounted. It is proof that today's climate configuration is more susceptible to changes in orbital cycles, ocean circulation, jet stream, etc. than ever before because the background conditions - which never existed before - allow for bipolar glaciation.Let me know what you think about this. Maybe I am seeing it wrong.
Heinrich and Dansgaard–Oeschger Events | National Centers for Environmental Information (NCEI) formerly known as National Climatic Data Center (NCDC)
Repeated global climate fluctuations during the last glacial period were possibly related to freshwater releases from land-based ice sheets.www.ncdc.noaa.gov
Whoever wrote that was too embarrassed to attach their name? ...
It's an interesting line of research ... the O-18 data is quite noisy ... some combination of instrumentation error and dynamic contamination ... I think we need better data before we can make any broad based conclusions ... natural variations within an ice age seem common ... perhaps at best this is a part of a counter-argument against the "unprecedented" temperature rise ... this data shows clearly there's plenty of precedence ... but how good it the data? ... it really doesn't line up with the ∆T data ... I'd look for other causes that effect the O-18 levels ...
Sand deposits on the Atlantic floor? ... "Since the thermohaline circulation plays an important role in transporting heat northward, a slowdown would cause the North Atlantic to cool." ... I wouldn't have put my name on this blurb either ... so I'd use the Heinrich data cautiously ... the thermohaline circulation is tossed around like some magic spell that causes stuff ... but this is centuries if not millennia per circuit ... nanofurlongs per fortnight ... the wind-driven surface currents are closer to kilofurlongs per fortnight ... which has an effect on day-to-day weather and which is nothing to speak about, in terms of heat transport? ...
Sorry ... maybe "thermohaline circulation" isn't quite a RED FLAG for fake news ... but I suggest throwing a YELLOW FLAG ... this above is a good example of how it can be used to deceive an unsuspicious public ... it isn't "thermal", it's strictly "haline" ... and slow, a mile per year ...
Is climate change a "contentious" issue ? Really ?
- Thread starter Tommy Tainant
- Start date
jbrownson0831
Diamond Member
- Jul 27, 2020
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It's a goofball libber non issue.
ReinyDays
Gold Member
Or it could be dynamic contamination ... the idea behind climatology is to average out the wide variety of oscillations in the system ... with a 100 year average, it's safe to say all 10 year period cycles disappear from the data ... and we have a level of validity comparing these 100 year averages ... but with 100 year cycles, we need 1,000 year averages and a few of those to compare ... hard data we don't have ...
One truism about weather data is that it's all over the place ... crazy up-and-down ... thus we can say this data has rather large standard deviation ... any datum well removed from average is expected and normal ... no reason the ice core data should be any different ... today's run up on temperatures is just another zig after a zag ...
I do agree on top of the crazy wild jagged and completely natural curve, man-kind does add a share ... but how much is anybody's guess ... we can't even establish CO2 effects on temperature in the lab ... anyone who says man contributes such-and-such to global warming is getting a fat paycheck to read that off a script ... follow by an ad for that new anxiety medicine that doesn't cause gout like the last one did ...
The Hystericals don't believe a word they say ... burning coal to post about the evil of burning coal ... ask them to ditch their A/C and 90% of out freak out, "it's a global problem, not mine" ... if you can't live without A/C, I'd suggest you're evolving the wrong direction ... or foolishly moving into the desert belts ... (here's a clue, if trees don't live there, neither should you) ... they know perfectly well this is all trivial but they just got to be afraid of something ... like my mom being deathly afraid of flipping through the air 6 or 7 times in her rig ... people just got to be challenged somehow ...
The good news ... and the same good news about Asteroids Attacks ... is that good quality research is going on ... today we have almost complete clarity about everything floating around our solar system, many deeper understands have be obtained about the formation and evolution ... things we now look for in other star systems ... 25 years from now, matters climatological will be far more advanced, and this all translates very well into day-to-day weather forecasts ... Billy_Bob has one thing right, forecasts today are shit ...
I digress ...
The primary waveform in the ice core data is clearly a saw-tooth wave ... exactly like the discharge wave from a capacitor with an AC input ... coincidence? ... correlation? ... something in the system that can quickly gain energy, but releases it slowly ... and some mechanism to provide the up-and-down energy input ... something did this, frankly, until we know it seems foolish to try to predicted where it's going ...
In fact, my mother did go flipping end-for-end in her rig ... she confided to me that the third time seemed normal, didn't scare her at all ... that's when she began to worry ...
I guess it could be dynamic contamination but when I look at the oxygen isotope curve for the last 10 million years I can see an obvious slope change which we know had to do with the transition from a greenhouse world to an icehouse world. And as that transition was made we can see more frequent swings in the oxygen isotope curve. So I believe the swings between warmer and cooler climates the last 3 million years ago are real and are artifacts of the transition from a greenhouse world to an ice house world. So it seems reasonable to me that increased glaciation in the northern hemisphere is responsible for those swings in temperatures. And that is primarily due to the background conditions of the polar regions being isolated from warm marine currents and atmospheric CO2 being relatively close to the glaciation threshold of the north pole.
Anyway... what do I know
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Grumblenuts
Gold Member
- Oct 16, 2017
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Actually, everyone sane knows climates change over time. That's just deliberate distraction. Deniers deny that humans can cause any and certainly object to any related legislation that may threaten butterfly wing fluctuations in their oil stock share prices
Actually... the argument of this "denier" is that from past climate changes CO2 has not been shown to drive climate change, CO2 has been shown to reinforce climate change. AND that the background conditions for northern hemisphere glaciation still exist today. And that the severity of the impact of northern hemisphere glaciation dwarfs the impact of atmospheric CO2 being 580 ppm by the year 2100. And that the background conditions for northern hemisphere glaciation would not exist with an atmospheric CO2 of 580 ppm. So this "denier" does not see the same risk as you.
Just adding a curve with the correlation with carbon isotope and a useful temperature scale.
watchingfromafar
Gold Member
- Aug 6, 2017
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Climate change is not the immediate threat facing us today.
To understand why, you need to review the history of our planet.
Our planet was not created by the development of our solar system. Earth came from elsewhere.
As earth, a molten core covered in ice 5.4 miles thick passes by our sun, the suns gravity grabbed earth slinging it into an elliptical orbit, an orbit we are still in today with its axis parallel to the suns.
At least it started out that way but now scientists have discovered that an asteroid hit the earth leaving our planet unlivable except for the smallest of creatures and a 23.5-degree tilt.
Today, the Earth's axis is tilted 23.5 degrees from the plane of its orbit around the sun. During a cycle that averages about 40,000 years, the tilt of the axis varies between 22.1 and 24.5 degrees.
NASA: Climate Change and Global Warming
The planets tilt is causing the climate changes, not burning oil.
At least five major ice ages have occurred throughout Earth's history: the earliest was over 2 billion years ago, and the most recent one began approximately 3 million years ago and continues today (yes, we live in an ice age!). Currently, we are in a warm interglacial that began about 11,000 years ago
Glad You Asked: Ice Ages – What are they and what causes them? – Utah Geological Survey
Scientists & geologists have determined that our planet has gone through four (4) major climate changes or ice retreats leaving behind a scared surface as the ice above slides around over the core melting under the suns glare.
There is nothing we can do to slow down this change. It is inevitable so adapt or do not, the choice is yours alone to make.
Having said all the above what we are doing to combat this climate change is what is saving us; .,.,.,.,.even though this has nothing to do with climate.
We are ending the use of fossil fuels; thinking it is saving our planet when in fact fossil fuels are finite. It has been determined that if we continue to consume fossil fuels at the rate we are consuming today, consumers will suck up and burn what known reserves the world has in 30-40 years.
Knowing the above
Save the climate. What do we do--?
Prepare for the end of oil, what do we do-?
-
To understand why, you need to review the history of our planet.
Our planet was not created by the development of our solar system. Earth came from elsewhere.
As earth, a molten core covered in ice 5.4 miles thick passes by our sun, the suns gravity grabbed earth slinging it into an elliptical orbit, an orbit we are still in today with its axis parallel to the suns.
At least it started out that way but now scientists have discovered that an asteroid hit the earth leaving our planet unlivable except for the smallest of creatures and a 23.5-degree tilt.
Today, the Earth's axis is tilted 23.5 degrees from the plane of its orbit around the sun. During a cycle that averages about 40,000 years, the tilt of the axis varies between 22.1 and 24.5 degrees.
NASA: Climate Change and Global Warming
The planets tilt is causing the climate changes, not burning oil.
At least five major ice ages have occurred throughout Earth's history: the earliest was over 2 billion years ago, and the most recent one began approximately 3 million years ago and continues today (yes, we live in an ice age!). Currently, we are in a warm interglacial that began about 11,000 years ago
Glad You Asked: Ice Ages – What are they and what causes them? – Utah Geological Survey
Scientists & geologists have determined that our planet has gone through four (4) major climate changes or ice retreats leaving behind a scared surface as the ice above slides around over the core melting under the suns glare.
There is nothing we can do to slow down this change. It is inevitable so adapt or do not, the choice is yours alone to make.
Having said all the above what we are doing to combat this climate change is what is saving us; .,.,.,.,.even though this has nothing to do with climate.
We are ending the use of fossil fuels; thinking it is saving our planet when in fact fossil fuels are finite. It has been determined that if we continue to consume fossil fuels at the rate we are consuming today, consumers will suck up and burn what known reserves the world has in 30-40 years.
Knowing the above
Save the climate. What do we do--?
Prepare for the end of oil, what do we do-?
-
watchingfromafar
Gold Member
- Aug 6, 2017
- 5,445
- 1,311
- 140
Carbon dioxide (chemical formula CO2) is a colorless gas with a density about 60% higher than that of dry air. Carbon dioxide consists of a carbon atom covalently double bonded to two oxygen atoms. It occurs naturally in Earth's atmosphere as a trace gas.
CO2 is produced by all aerobic organisms when they metabolize carbohydrates and lipids to produce energy by respiration. It is returned to water via the gills of fish and to the air via the lungs of air-breathing land animals, including humans. Carbon dioxide is produced during the processes of decay of organic materials and the fermentation of sugars In bread, beer and wine making. It is produced by combustion of wood and other organic materials and fossil fuels such as coal, peat, petroleum and natural gas. It is an unwanted byproduct in many large scale oxidation processes, for example, in the production of acrylic acid (over 5 million tons/year)
Carbon dioxide - Wikipedia
Photosynthesis is a process used by plants and other organisms to convert light energy into chemical energy that can later be released to fuel the organisms' activities. This chemical energy is stored in carbohydrate molecules, such as sugars, which are synthesized from carbon dioxide and water– hence the name photosynthesis, from the Greek φῶς, phōs, "light", and σύνθεσις, synthesis, "putting together". In most cases, oxygen is also released as a waste product. Most plants, most algae, and cyanobacteria perform photosynthesis; such organisms are called photoautotrophs. Photosynthesis is largely responsible for producing and maintaining the oxygen content of the Earth's atmosphere, and supplies all of the organic compounds and most of the energy necessary for life on Earth.[4]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosynthesis
Animals are multicellular eukaryotic organisms that form the biological kingdom Animalia. With few exceptions, animals consume organic material, breathe oxygen, are able to move, can reproduce sexually, and grow from a hollow sphere of cells, the blastula, during embryonic development.
File:Auto-and heterotrophs.png - Wikipedia
Animals breath in 02 oxygen and exhale CO2 carbon dioxide
Plants breath in CO2 and exhale O2
The real threat is diesel engines.
Diesel engines spew out (CO)
Carbon monoxide
Carbon monoxide (CO) is a colorless, odorless, and tasteless flammable gas that is slightly less dense than air. It is toxic to animals that use hemoglobin as an oxygen carrier (both invertebrate and vertebrate) when encountered in concentrations above about 35 ppm, although it is also produced in normal animal metabolism in low quantities, and is thought to have some normal biological functions. In the atmosphere, it is spatially variable and short-lived, having a role in the formation of ground-level ozone.
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