Infant mortality and nations.

[Harry Dresden]

So if we dont count black and illegals our healthcare system ranks higher? Can i not count my christian scientist neighbor or the guy next door who eats too much fast food and smokes?

Really, if we dont count illegals how much higher is our ranking?

the article i was reading was only about S.Cal.....so there was no international ranking involved....but the numbers looked like a first world Country not a third......and that was just around here....remember many Illegals see local Mid-wives....many will see the local "herbalist" because they cant afford a doctor or because they dont believe in them....i see that just with the ones around me.....when i asked why.....i was told because thats the way they have done it for their whole lives and just because they crossed the border......does not mean they will all of a sudden change their ways.....

 

[Cecilie1200]

So if we dont count black and illegals our healthcare system ranks higher? Can i not count my christian scientist neighbor or the guy next door who eats too much fast food and smokes?

Really, if we dont count illegals how much higher is our ranking?

The point, dear, is that a straight comparison between a homogenous society and one with a wide variety of races, ethnicities, cultures, etc. is pointless. You get a much clearer picture of our healthcare when you take into account the fact that our numbers are affected by factors that those other countries don't have, such as our much larger black population, our sizable population of illegal immigrants, the fact that we count as "live births" many children other countries count as "stillbirths", the fact that we make more of an effort to save higher-risk pregnancies than a lot of countries . . . you should be able to get the idea from this.

 

[Toronado3800]

So if we dont count black and illegals our healthcare system ranks higher? Can i not count my christian scientist neighbor or the guy next door who eats too much fast food and smokes?

Really, if we dont count illegals how much higher is our ranking?

The point, dear, is that a straight comparison between a homogenous society and one with a wide variety of races, ethnicities, cultures, etc. is pointless. You get a much clearer picture of our healthcare when you take into account the fact that our numbers are affected by factors that those other countries don't have, such as our much larger black population, our sizable population of illegal immigrants, the fact that we count as "live births" many children other countries count as "stillbirths", the fact that we make more of an effort to save higher-risk pregnancies than a lot of countries . . . you should be able to get the idea from this.

OK. So the point is we only want to count babies born to White Upper Middle Class folks who live in Boston but not too near the power plant?

Tough as it is dear we accept Olympic medals no matter if a little girl who could be from China won it or a black man with ancestors from Chad ran the fastest. We also use Jewish scientists who escaped Germany to design our rockets and Hispanic men to mow yards in America's dying suburbs.

All these things go to make America great and not great.

Now if anyone knows how many babies are born each year in America under a pound and die perhaps we can do some math and "fix" the totals so our stick is using the same measurements as the others.

 

[Two Thumbs]

I was accused by Two Thumbs of lying about the infant mortality because I stated that the US lagged behind most other industrial nations. By the very link in his own post, here are the deplorable facts.

List of countries by infant mortality rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

List by the CIA World Factbook
(all 2009 estimates)

1 Singapore 2.31
2 Bermuda 2.46
3 Sweden 2.75
4 Japan 2.79
5 Hong Kong 2.92
6 Macau 3.22
7 Iceland 3.23
8 France 3.33
9 Finland 3.47
10 Anguilla 3.52
11 Norway 3.58
12 Malta 3.75
13 Andorra 3.76
14 Czech Republic 3.79
15 Germany 3.99
16 Switzerland 4.18
17 Spain 4.21
18 Israel 4.22
19 Slovenia 4.25
20 Liechtenstein 4.25
21 South Korea 4.26
22 Denmark 4.34
23 Austria 4.42
24 Belgium 4.44
25 Guernsey 4.47
26 Luxembourg 4.56
27 Netherlands 4.73
28 Jersey 4.73
29 Australia 4.75
30 Portugal 4.78
31 Gibraltar 4.83
32 United Kingdom 4.85
33 New Zealand 4.92
34 Monaco 5.00
35 Wallis and Futuna 5.02
36 Canada 5.04
37 Ireland 5.05
38 Greece 5.16
39 San Marino 5.34
40 Taiwan 5.35
41 Isle of Man 5.37
42 Italy 5.51
43 European Union 5.72
44 Cuba 5.82
45 Guam 6.05
46 United States 6.26


List by the United Nations Population Division

Country or territory Infant mortality rate
(deaths/1,000 live births) Under-five mortality rate
(deaths/1,000 live births)
1 Iceland 2.9 3.9
2 Singapore 3.0 4.1
3 Japan 3.2 4.2
4 Sweden 3.2 4.0
5 Norway 3.3 4.4
6 Hong Kong 3.7 4.7
7 Finland 3.7 4.7
8 Czech Republic 3.8 4.8
9 Switzerland 4.1 5.1
10 South Korea 4.1 4.8
11 Belgium 4.2 5.3
12 France 4.2 5.2
13 Spain 4.2 5.3
14 Germany 4.3 5.4
15 Denmark 4.4 5.8
16 Austria 4.4 5.4
17 Australia 4.4 5.6
18 Luxembourg 4.5 6.6
19 Netherlands 4.7 5.9
20 Israel 4.7 5.7
21 Slovenia 4.8 6.4
22 United Kingdom 4.8 6.0
23 Canada 4.8 5.9
24 Ireland 4.9 6.2
25 Italy 5.0 6.1
26 Portugal 5.0 6.6
27 New Zealand 5.0 6.4
28 Cuba 5.1 6.5
29 Channel Islands ( Jersey and Guernsey) 5.2 6.2
30 Brunei 5.5 6.7
31 Cyprus 5.9 6.9
32 New Caledonia 6.1 8.7
33 United States 6.3 7.8

The United Nations gives us a higher rating than our own CIA does.

Something to really be proud of, right?

And you are still a moron. Is counting really that hard you? Seriously.

6.26 out of 1000, not 100 dipshit

It's .626 out of 100

And that's deplorable to you?

You might want to work on your common sense some, cuz your edukatshun will take to long to up to first grade, where counting is important.

 

[Two Thumbs]

And re-check the link retard.

The CIA is an estimate, not an actual census.

And you can't read properly. You claimed we were behind most.

The CIA lists; 224 countries
The UN lists; 195

You just proved yourself wrong.



Look, if you are going to call someone out, make damn sure you have the facts straight. This wasn't even a slight challenge b/c you proved yourself to be an lying idiot.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Aren't yawl so fucking proud of our healthcare system?

UN report

28 Cuba 5.1 6.5
33 United States 6.3 7.8


CIA Report

44 Cuba 5.82
46 United States 6.26



YouTube - "We're Number 37" - Paul Hipp

1. So, Cuba has a lower infant mortality rate? On January 2, 2009 they announced 4.7 out of every 1,000 for 2008. Seem believable? Well, maybe the number, but calculated in 48 hours? It takes the US about two years to get all the data for ours.

One reason that Cuba has a low infant mortality, and the corresponding high life expectancy, is because they induce abortion at the first sign of possible trouble with a fetus. “Cuba's annual induced abortion rate persistently ranks among the highest in the world, and abortion plays a prominent role in Cuban fertility regulation.”The Persistence of Induced Abortion in Cuba: Exploring the Notion of an []Abortion Culture[] - B[]langer - 2009 - Studies in Family Planning - Wiley Online Library

2. There are a variety of ways that infant mortality statistics are measured. While 40% of America’s infant mortality rate is due to reporting of infants who die on the day of their birth, many countries don’t register such deaths at all. Other countries require specific size (Switzerland, 30 cm) and weights (Austria and Germany, 500 gms) to be listed as having been born.
Bernadine Healy, M.D.: Behind the baby count - US News and World Report



3. "Rarely reported in comparing infant mortality rates it the negative effect of “very pre-term” babies, whose death rate is far higher than full term. When comparing the US infant mortality rate to such category-stars as in this NYTimes report of 11/4/09:
“If the United States could match Sweden’s prematurity rate, the new report said, “nearly 8,000 infant deaths would be averted each year, and the U.S. infant mortality rate would be one-third lower.”

We find the usual anti-US slant of the Times, in not mentioning that race is the reason:

“The use of this example highlights to disingenuousness of the authors. In their supposedly “detailed” report on infant mortality, they fail to analyze the most important detail: race. Unfortunately, African descent is a major risk factor for prematurity, and prematurity is a major cause of infant mortality. Therefore, it is hardly surprising that the US has a higher infant mortality rate than Sweden. The US has the highest proportion of women of African descent of any first world country. Sweden, of course, has virtually none. So our higher rate of infant mortality does not reflect poor medical care. It reflects factors beyond the control of doctors. Race is an uncontrollable factor; obstetricians and pediatricians have no control over assisted reproductive techniques. In fact, the data actually show obstetricians and pediatricians do a remarkable job of ensuring infant health.”

Infant mortality report neglects the most important detail - AmyTuteurMD - Open Salon


4. One factor contributing to the U.S.'s infant mortality rate is that blacks have intractably high infant mortality rates -- irrespective of age, education, socioeconomic status and so on. No one knows why.

Neither medical care nor discrimination can explain it: Hispanics in the U.S. have lower infant mortality rates than either blacks or whites. Give Switzerland or Japan our ethnically diverse population and see how they stack up on infant mortality rates.
A Statistical Analysis of Maritime Unemployment Rates, 1946-1948. Just Kidding, More Liberal Lies About National Healthcare! - HUMAN EVENTS

 

[Cecilie1200]

So if we dont count black and illegals our healthcare system ranks higher? Can i not count my christian scientist neighbor or the guy next door who eats too much fast food and smokes?

Really, if we dont count illegals how much higher is our ranking?

The point, dear, is that a straight comparison between a homogenous society and one with a wide variety of races, ethnicities, cultures, etc. is pointless. You get a much clearer picture of our healthcare when you take into account the fact that our numbers are affected by factors that those other countries don't have, such as our much larger black population, our sizable population of illegal immigrants, the fact that we count as "live births" many children other countries count as "stillbirths", the fact that we make more of an effort to save higher-risk pregnancies than a lot of countries . . . you should be able to get the idea from this.

OK. So the point is we only want to count babies born to White Upper Middle Class folks who live in Boston but not too near the power plant?

Tough as it is dear we accept Olympic medals no matter if a little girl who could be from China won it or a black man with ancestors from Chad ran the fastest. We also use Jewish scientists who escaped Germany to design our rockets and Hispanic men to mow yards in America's dying suburbs.

All these things go to make America great and not great.

Now if anyone knows how many babies are born each year in America under a pound and die perhaps we can do some math and "fix" the totals so our stick is using the same measurements as the others.

Have you always had this much trouble with comprehension, or only when it serves your own agenda to be obtuse?

Show me ANYWHERE in my post that I said we "only want babies born to upper class white folks". ANYWHERE. Otherwise, I'm going to assume that your putting into what is putatively a reply to me is simply your way of telling me that you're an asshole.

What the fuck do Olympic medals have to do with what I said, or for that matter, with what ANYONE said? No one but you is seeing anything negative about races here, which tells me that YOU have racism issues, not anyone else.

We can do the math to fix the totals just as soon as YOU stop being a jackass about pretending to misunderstand the reasons why the math needs to be done. I always have to wonder just how big a partisan hack someone has to be to consider it worth looking this frigging thick in public just to serve his agenda.

 

[Flopper]

The U.S. has a higher rate because of its black population. Black infants die at much higher rates because of the place of blacks on the r-K scale. You'll see uniformity for blacks on this, whether in the U.S. or Africa.

Economic inequality has a lot to do with infant mortality. I believe more than race.
West Virginia:
Income Level Rank is 49th in the nation
Infant Mortality Rank is 10th in the nation
Black population Rank is only 38th in the nation.

 

[Flopper]

I was accused by Two Thumbs of lying about the infant mortality because I stated that the US lagged behind most other industrial nations. By the very link in his own post, here are the deplorable facts.

The reason why our infant mortality rate is so low on the list is because we count every single birth as a live birth and most other nations do not. In many other places, especially Europe, the baby has to meet certain requirements before it dies to be counted in their infant mortality rate so their numbers tend to be overly inflated. When you remove that from the equation, we're pretty much the same as Europe. There are also cultural and ethnic differences that also factor in.

This is a good article to read on the subject.

Bernadine Healy, M.D.: Behind the baby count - US News and World Report

"Many countries, including the United States, Sweden or Germany, count an infant exhibiting any sign of life as alive." So we would expect similar rating for Sweden and Germany but
Sweden is rank number 3
Germany is ranked number 10
US is ranked number 46

Infant mortality - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I was accused by Two Thumbs of lying about the infant mortality because I stated that the US lagged behind most other industrial nations. By the very link in his own post, here are the deplorable facts.

List of countries by infant mortality rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

List by the CIA World Factbook
(all 2009 estimates)

1 Singapore 2.31
2 Bermuda 2.46
3 Sweden 2.75
4 Japan 2.79
5 Hong Kong 2.92
6 Macau 3.22
7 Iceland 3.23
8 France 3.33
9 Finland 3.47
10 Anguilla 3.52
11 Norway 3.58
12 Malta 3.75
13 Andorra 3.76
14 Czech Republic 3.79
15 Germany 3.99
16 Switzerland 4.18
17 Spain 4.21
18 Israel 4.22
19 Slovenia 4.25
20 Liechtenstein 4.25
21 South Korea 4.26
22 Denmark 4.34
23 Austria 4.42
24 Belgium 4.44
25 Guernsey 4.47
26 Luxembourg 4.56
27 Netherlands 4.73
28 Jersey 4.73
29 Australia 4.75
30 Portugal 4.78
31 Gibraltar 4.83
32 United Kingdom 4.85
33 New Zealand 4.92
34 Monaco 5.00
35 Wallis and Futuna 5.02
36 Canada 5.04
37 Ireland 5.05
38 Greece 5.16
39 San Marino 5.34
40 Taiwan 5.35
41 Isle of Man 5.37
42 Italy 5.51
43 European Union 5.72
44 Cuba 5.82
45 Guam 6.05
46 United States 6.26


List by the United Nations Population Division

Country or territory Infant mortality rate
(deaths/1,000 live births) Under-five mortality rate
(deaths/1,000 live births)
1 Iceland 2.9 3.9
2 Singapore 3.0 4.1
3 Japan 3.2 4.2
4 Sweden 3.2 4.0
5 Norway 3.3 4.4
6 Hong Kong 3.7 4.7
7 Finland 3.7 4.7
8 Czech Republic 3.8 4.8
9 Switzerland 4.1 5.1
10 South Korea 4.1 4.8
11 Belgium 4.2 5.3
12 France 4.2 5.2
13 Spain 4.2 5.3
14 Germany 4.3 5.4
15 Denmark 4.4 5.8
16 Austria 4.4 5.4
17 Australia 4.4 5.6
18 Luxembourg 4.5 6.6
19 Netherlands 4.7 5.9
20 Israel 4.7 5.7
21 Slovenia 4.8 6.4
22 United Kingdom 4.8 6.0
23 Canada 4.8 5.9
24 Ireland 4.9 6.2
25 Italy 5.0 6.1
26 Portugal 5.0 6.6
27 New Zealand 5.0 6.4
28 Cuba 5.1 6.5
29 Channel Islands ( Jersey and Guernsey) 5.2 6.2
30 Brunei 5.5 6.7
31 Cyprus 5.9 6.9
32 New Caledonia 6.1 8.7
33 United States 6.3 7.8

The United Nations gives us a higher rating than our own CIA does.

Something to really be proud of, right?

Once again for the slow and terminally STUPID. Not one single health question from Countries across the world have a single method of reporting. EACH individual Country is free to create the manner and method they report on the question.

For example, take Infant mortality. In the US we report any live birth as, well a live birth, even if the Infant has ZERO chance of surviving because it was to premature or other factor. Most other Countries do not in fact report those instances as live births, they do not report them at all. In some Countries a baby has to live for a MONTH before it is declared a live birth.

 

[Toronado3800]

Flopper, thanks for the close reading there. You have done the best so far.
************
PoliticalChic, do you have a good link to a balanced statistical analysis? When I search I mostly come up with how to treat your low weight baby sites and so forth.
********-
Guess I am a gun supporting/military loving partisan hack if wanting to count our whole population or not blindly saying the U.S. is best at everything makes me one lol.

 

[8236]

Fascinating that no-one on this thread has spotted the two huge elephants in the room.

In the UK we have had this story plastered all over the media too. Shock horror, 'UK still births are almost the worst in Europe! 11 babies stillborn every day!'. The articles then go on to list a host of causes for birth complications leading to dead babies. As usual, smoking, alcohol, malnutrition/ bad nutrition were mentioned, but also, the two elephants I mention above.

IMHO (sure further research will back this up): The reason for our poor showing in these stats are:

1: OBESITY. The US is the most obese nation on earth. The UK is the most obese nation in Europe. Go look up ovarian cysts and other fat related fertility conditions etc.
2: AGE OF MOTHERS. Our Anglo-Saxon capitalist culture has driven both men and women to concentrate on career, career, career, resulting in many couples putting off plans for children/ families until their late 30s or if they're even richer their late 40s or 50s (e.g. u know what I mean, plenty of celebs leading the way here).

It baffles me that no articles I've read here in the UK have mentioned these two factors, but then our tabloid press is legendary and not interested in boring old solutions to problems.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Flopper, thanks for the close reading there. You have done the best so far.
************
PoliticalChic, do you have a good link to a balanced statistical analysis? When I search I mostly come up with how to treat your low weight baby sites and so forth.
********-
Guess I am a gun supporting/military loving partisan hack if wanting to count our whole population or not blindly saying the U.S. is best at everything makes me one lol.

Did you check the four in post #26?

 

[AllieBaba]

The U.S. has a higher rate because of its black population. Black infants die at much higher rates because of the place of blacks on the r-K scale. You'll see uniformity for blacks on this, whether in the U.S. or Africa.

Economic inequality has a lot to do with infant mortality. I believe more than race.
West Virginia:
Income Level Rank is 49th in the nation
Infant Mortality Rank is 10th in the nation
Black population Rank is only 38th in the nation.

It's not economic inequality that affects infant mortality, it's POVERTY.

If we were all poor, then the mortality rate would not reduce, it would increase.

Moron.

 

[AllieBaba]

Fascinating that no-one on this thread has spotted the two huge elephants in the room.

In the UK we have had this story plastered all over the media too. Shock horror, 'UK still births are almost the worst in Europe! 11 babies stillborn every day!'. The articles then go on to list a host of causes for birth complications leading to dead babies. As usual, smoking, alcohol, malnutrition/ bad nutrition were mentioned, but also, the two elephants I mention above.

IMHO (sure further research will back this up): The reason for our poor showing in these stats are:

1: OBESITY. The US is the most obese nation on earth. The UK is the most obese nation in Europe. Go look up ovarian cysts and other fat related fertility conditions etc.
2: AGE OF MOTHERS. Our Anglo-Saxon capitalist culture has driven both men and women to concentrate on career, career, career, resulting in many couples putting off plans for children/ families until their late 30s or if they're even richer their late 40s or 50s (e.g. u know what I mean, plenty of celebs leading the way here).

It baffles me that no articles I've read here in the UK have mentioned these two factors, but then our tabloid press is legendary and not interested in boring old solutions to problems.

They aren't mentioned because there's no correlation. While obesity and advanced maternal age increase risk to mother and child, there is no epidemic of baby deaths caused by obesity and advanced maternal age. In other words, it's a completely different topic.

 

[FireFly]

How many times do you need to be told that this stupid statistic is completely irrelevant to anything?

Old Rocks in the Head thinks he is a scientist.
. . .

 

[whitehall]

What's the point? To make a case that the 3,000 page monstrosity the democrats created last year will give better health care to infants? When he was a state senator, Obama used his legal skills to keep the manslaughter of premature babies "legal" in Chicago. A nurse was handed a living breathing premature baby that was thrown in the garbage in Obama's Chicago hospital and she blew the whistle on the carnage. Obama made sure the procedure would continue and the nurse lost her job. Democrats don't give a damn about infant mortality. They would rather kill them in the womb than be bothered. The US has more illegal criminal aliens than Singapore has citizens. What does that say about the statistics?

 

[AllieBaba]

Of course they don't care. They actually like to see mortality increases in children because it provides them with more scare fodder.

 

[Old Rocks]

Of course they don't care. They actually like to see mortality increases in children because it provides them with more scare fodder.

My,my, what a dumb person you are. You scream every time that someone suggests spending money on the children of this nation is a better idea than bombing those in other nations.

I suggest that we cut our military expenditures by half, and double our spending on the children of this nation. And the extra money could be used to reduce the deficit. That would do more than either Ryan's or Obama's plan.

 

[AllieBaba]

What a liar you are.