In the beginning...

[onefour1]

Recently, we've seen evidence that the universe has always existed. If true, there would be no need of gods to create much of anything cuz it was already here.

But if one does believe in the christian god, the bible says we all came from Noah's family screwing each other.

Genesis, virgin birth, Noah ... are we the product of incest, infanticide or what?

The other gods preach variations on the same stuff.

If it were the will of God that Adam and Noah and their families populate the earth, I think in this case incest was not looked down upon and was condoned by God.

I must add that I do believe that things have always existed and I am not a proponent of ex nihilo creation.

If what you're saying is true, incest is okay if it serves an agenda. Sorry but that is really lame and makes children the victim. And, I just hate that whole Cafeteria Christian thing.

Recently, we've seen evidence that the universe has always existed. If true, there would be no need of gods to create much of anything cuz it was already here.

But if one does believe in the christian god, the bible says we all came from Noah's family screwing each other.

Genesis, virgin birth, Noah ... are we the product of incest, infanticide or what?

The other gods preach variations on the same stuff.

If it were the will of God that Adam and Noah and their families populate the earth, I think in this case incest was not looked down upon and was condoned by God.

I must add that I do believe that things have always existed and I am not a proponent of ex nihilo creation.

My take is we do not understand what reproduction was in that era.

You're saying that a couple thousand years ago that screwing was not screwing?
How do you think they reproduced?

What about long before that?

Or are you one of those who thinks the earth is only a few thousand years old and discounts ancient civilizations and religions?

You live in a world no bigger than a small box, Luddly. I wish you would open your eyes, and your mind.

Says the Cafeteria Christian who refuses to see anything beyond what he's told to believe but who didn't have the balls to stick with the very question he himself asked. Very cowardly and VERY closed minded.

These conversations always go the same way. The "christians" always talk about how superior they are for having closed minds. Then they start squabbling among themselves - a pissing contest to prove who can copy/paste the most bible verses and win the trophy of being the best christian.

Sorry Ludley, I just didn't understand your line of reasoning. Can you expound on it? I have to go pick up my kids at their cousins and have to sign off for now. I will get back to you later.

 

[RandomVariable]

If you take the lowest point on earth and compare it to the highest, I believe the difference is greater than 15 cubits. So for the water to prevail 15 cubits and still cover the highest mountain, it must have not had its lowest point of measurement be the lowest point on the earth.

I take it to say the water was 15 cubits across the whole earth. Does it really matter though?

When you say 15 cubits across the whole earth, what does that mean? I have to run and pick up my kids, so I will have to sign off for now. Lets continue this later.

Not sure what it means but I think that is what it says. That's the point.

Yes, let's.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Recently, we've seen evidence that the universe has always existed. If true, there would be no need of gods to create much of anything cuz it was already here.

But if one does believe in the christian god, the bible says we all came from Noah's family screwing each other.

Genesis, virgin birth, Noah ... are we the product of incest, infanticide or what?

The other gods preach variations on the same stuff.

If it were the will of God that Adam and Noah and their families populate the earth, I think in this case incest was not looked down upon and was condoned by God.

I must add that I do believe that things have always existed and I am not a proponent of ex nihilo creation.

If what you're saying is true, incest is okay if it serves an agenda. Sorry but that is really lame and makes children the victim. And, I just hate that whole Cafeteria Christian thing.

If it were the will of God that Adam and Noah and their families populate the earth, I think in this case incest was not looked down upon and was condoned by God.

I must add that I do believe that things have always existed and I am not a proponent of ex nihilo creation.

My take is we do not understand what reproduction was in that era.

You're saying that a couple thousand years ago that screwing was not screwing?
How do you think they reproduced?

What about long before that?

Or are you one of those who thinks the earth is only a few thousand years old and discounts ancient civilizations and religions?

You live in a world no bigger than a small box, Luddly. I wish you would open your eyes, and your mind.

Says the Cafeteria Christian who refuses to see anything beyond what he's told to believe but who didn't have the balls to stick with the very question he himself asked. Very cowardly and VERY closed minded.

These conversations always go the same way. The "christians" always talk about how superior they are for having closed minds. Then they start squabbling among themselves - a pissing contest to prove who can copy/paste the most bible verses and win the trophy of being the best christian.

First of all I have stated many times I am not a Christian. Do you know how to type but not to read?

I don't memorize every word other posters type.

But, you did sidestep the very point you brought up.

Recently, we've seen evidence that the universe has always existed. If true, there would be no need of gods to create much of anything cuz it was already here.

But if one does believe in the christian god, the bible says we all came from Noah's family screwing each other.

Genesis, virgin birth, Noah ... are we the product of incest, infanticide or what?

The other gods preach variations on the same stuff.

If it were the will of God that Adam and Noah and their families populate the earth, I think in this case incest was not looked down upon and was condoned by God.

I must add that I do believe that things have always existed and I am not a proponent of ex nihilo creation.

If what you're saying is true, incest is okay if it serves an agenda. Sorry but that is really lame and makes children the victim. And, I just hate that whole Cafeteria Christian thing.

If it were the will of God that Adam and Noah and their families populate the earth, I think in this case incest was not looked down upon and was condoned by God.

I must add that I do believe that things have always existed and I am not a proponent of ex nihilo creation.

My take is we do not understand what reproduction was in that era.

You're saying that a couple thousand years ago that screwing was not screwing?
How do you think they reproduced?

What about long before that?

Or are you one of those who thinks the earth is only a few thousand years old and discounts ancient civilizations and religions?

You live in a world no bigger than a small box, Luddly. I wish you would open your eyes, and your mind.

Says the Cafeteria Christian who refuses to see anything beyond what he's told to believe but who didn't have the balls to stick with the very question he himself asked. Very cowardly and VERY closed minded.

These conversations always go the same way. The "christians" always talk about how superior they are for having closed minds. Then they start squabbling among themselves - a pissing contest to prove who can copy/paste the most bible verses and win the trophy of being the best christian.

Sorry Ludley, I just didn't understand your line of reasoning. Can you expound on it? I have to go pick up my kids at their cousins and have to sign off for now. I will get back to you later.

Really, not much more to add.

I don't usually read in the Religion forum because of what I wrote (bolded) above. I can never get past the holier-than-thou BS, the mindless repetition of overcooked oatmeal and crimeny, the ENDLESS pissing contests of copy/pastes of bible verses. My eyes glaze over and I can feel my brain cells dying off.

Maybe one day, I'll see a discussion where people don't rely on speaking in tongues from the bible and I'll actually read and respond. Until then, sorry I disturbed y'all.

 

[RandomVariable]

If it were the will of God that Adam and Noah and their families populate the earth, I think in this case incest was not looked down upon and was condoned by God.

I must add that I do believe that things have always existed and I am not a proponent of ex nihilo creation.

If what you're saying is true, incest is okay if it serves an agenda. Sorry but that is really lame and makes children the victim. And, I just hate that whole Cafeteria Christian thing.

My take is we do not understand what reproduction was in that era.

You're saying that a couple thousand years ago that screwing was not screwing?
How do you think they reproduced?

What about long before that?

Or are you one of those who thinks the earth is only a few thousand years old and discounts ancient civilizations and religions?

You live in a world no bigger than a small box, Luddly. I wish you would open your eyes, and your mind.

Says the Cafeteria Christian who refuses to see anything beyond what he's told to believe but who didn't have the balls to stick with the very question he himself asked. Very cowardly and VERY closed minded.

These conversations always go the same way. The "christians" always talk about how superior they are for having closed minds. Then they start squabbling among themselves - a pissing contest to prove who can copy/paste the most bible verses and win the trophy of being the best christian.

First of all I have stated many times I am not a Christian. Do you know how to type but not to read?

I don't memorize every word other posters type.

But, you did sidestep the very point you brought up.

If it were the will of God that Adam and Noah and their families populate the earth, I think in this case incest was not looked down upon and was condoned by God.

I must add that I do believe that things have always existed and I am not a proponent of ex nihilo creation.

If what you're saying is true, incest is okay if it serves an agenda. Sorry but that is really lame and makes children the victim. And, I just hate that whole Cafeteria Christian thing.

My take is we do not understand what reproduction was in that era.

You're saying that a couple thousand years ago that screwing was not screwing?
How do you think they reproduced?

What about long before that?

Or are you one of those who thinks the earth is only a few thousand years old and discounts ancient civilizations and religions?

You live in a world no bigger than a small box, Luddly. I wish you would open your eyes, and your mind.

Says the Cafeteria Christian who refuses to see anything beyond what he's told to believe but who didn't have the balls to stick with the very question he himself asked. Very cowardly and VERY closed minded.

These conversations always go the same way. The "christians" always talk about how superior they are for having closed minds. Then they start squabbling among themselves - a pissing contest to prove who can copy/paste the most bible verses and win the trophy of being the best christian.

Sorry Ludley, I just didn't understand your line of reasoning. Can you expound on it? I have to go pick up my kids at their cousins and have to sign off for now. I will get back to you later.

Really, not much more to add.

I don't usually read in the Religion forum because of what I wrote (bolded) above. I can never get past the holier-than-thou BS, the mindless repetition of overcooked oatmeal and crimeny, the ENDLESS pissing contests of copy/pastes of bible verses. My eyes glaze over and I can feel my brain cells dying off.

Maybe one day, I'll see a discussion where people don't rely on speaking in tongues from the bible and I'll actually read and respond. Until then, sorry I disturbed y'all.

Don't memorize every word other posters type? You are not paying any attention to what other people write except to make your own point. You are a very shallow individual.

 

[Inevitable]

Are you saying that it isn't stated in the bible what "In the beginning" is referring to?

All it says is what it says.

 

[sealybobo]

Does the phrase, "In the beginning" in Genesis chapter 1 refer to the beginning of the creation of this earth or does it refer to the beginning of everything that ever exists outside of God himself?

I the beginning there was gas. Billions of years later stars formed but not our sun or earth. That didn't happen for another 10 billion years.

Sounds very evolutionary. What evidences do we have for this?

Science math Einstein newton carbon dating etc. Evidence the ancients didn't have when they wrote the creation story.

Sorry if the truth conflicts with your story.

 

[Care4all]

The Bible is for the why

And science is for the how

 

[RandomVariable]

Does the phrase, "In the beginning" in Genesis chapter 1 refer to the beginning of the creation of this earth or does it refer to the beginning of everything that ever exists outside of God himself?

I the beginning there was gas. Billions of years later stars formed but not our sun or earth. That didn't happen for another 10 billion years.

Sounds very evolutionary. What evidences do we have for this?

Science math Einstein newton carbon dating etc. Evidence the ancients didn't have when they wrote the creation story.

Sorry if the truth conflicts with your story.

And your scientific reality will only last until your next scientific reality. Ours is eternal.

 

[Inevitable]

Are you saying that it isn't stated in the bible what "In the beginning" is referring to?

If it was, we wouldn't be having this discussion. I think it is vague. Thus any speculation is as valid as any other.

 

[onefour1]

Are you saying that it isn't stated in the bible what "In the beginning" is referring to?

If it was, we wouldn't be having this discussion. I think it is vague. Thus any speculation is as valid as any other.

I'm back. I think you are right that it is vague but from the verses, we do know that the creation of the earth occurs prior to the 6 days of creation. Thus the six days of creation do not include the creation of the earth but only the development of the earth once the first light was introduced upon it. Thus what I can surmise is that we don't really know how old the earth really is but we do know that the formation of the earth after being above water and the introduction of plant and animal life occurred within a 6000 year period if you believe the 2 Peter 3:8 verse applies to the length of time of a day according to the reckoning of the first light that shone upon the earth. So I do not agree with those creationists who believe that the earth is 6000 years old. But I also, being a believer in God, do not agree with the evolutionists.

 

[onefour1]

Does the phrase, "In the beginning" in Genesis chapter 1 refer to the beginning of the creation of this earth or does it refer to the beginning of everything that ever exists outside of God himself?

I the beginning there was gas. Billions of years later stars formed but not our sun or earth. That didn't happen for another 10 billion years.

Sounds very evolutionary. What evidences do we have for this?

Science math Einstein newton carbon dating etc. Evidence the ancients didn't have when they wrote the creation story.

Sorry if the truth conflicts with your story.

From a Christian perspective on carbon dating there is an interesting video on youtube called, "Carbon Dating Flaws by Kent Hovind" which points out the problems with carbon dating. I found the guy to be very interesting. I don't really believe that the truth is found in carbon dating. Newton was a Christian and often studied the prophesies of the bible. If you search on the web for this you will find it to be quite fascinating.

 

[onefour1]

The Bible is for the why

And science is for the how

Care-4-All, can you elaborate on this. I am interested in hearing about this interesting statement.

 

[MaxGrit]

 

[Inevitable]

Are you saying that it isn't stated in the bible what "In the beginning" is referring to?

If it was, we wouldn't be having this discussion. I think it is vague. Thus any speculation is as valid as any other.

I'm back. I think you are right that it is vague but from the verses, we do know that the creation of the earth occurs prior to the 6 days of creation. Thus the six days of creation do not include the creation of the earth but only the development of the earth once the first light was introduced upon it. Thus what I can surmise is that we don't really know how old the earth really is but we do know that the formation of the earth after being above water and the introduction of plant and animal life occurred within a 6000 year period if you believe the 2 Peter 3:8 verse applies to the length of time of a day according to the reckoning of the first light that shone upon the earth. So I do not agree with those creationists who believe that the earth is 6000 years old. But I also, being a believer in God, do not agree with the evolutionists.

Whether you agree with evolution or not isn't relevant. Evolution does occur, whether it is by design or not is what is a matter for beliefs. Being a theist myself I happen to believe it was.

Light comes from the star, it formed before the earth did. So based solely on what it says it is inaccurate. Now if you want to take metaphorical meanings of light and dark, that would be interpretation, and I'm off the opinion that biblical writings are metaphorical. Which often seems to be a point of contention.

 

[there4eyeM]

Please remember that all words are symbols and metaphors, even if the author does not realize it.

For God to be God means to be unlimited. All words limit. All talk of God defines the Undefinable. If one believes in God, limiting God is blasphemy. Thus, all religions are blasphemy IF TAKEN LITERALLY.

The only way to 'know God', if God exists, would have to be by purely individual, intimate revelation that by definition could not be directly shared by anyone else.

At the most, religious texts can only guide one toward a personal relationship with The One, but cannot give it, impose it or even define it.

 

[sealybobo]

Does the phrase, "In the beginning" in Genesis chapter 1 refer to the beginning of the creation of this earth or does it refer to the beginning of everything that ever exists outside of God himself?

I the beginning there was gas. Billions of years later stars formed but not our sun or earth. That didn't happen for another 10 billion years.

Sounds very evolutionary. What evidences do we have for this?

Science math Einstein newton carbon dating etc. Evidence the ancients didn't have when they wrote the creation story.

Sorry if the truth conflicts with your story.

And your scientific reality will only last until your next scientific reality. Ours is eternal.

Like the people who died thinking the earth is flat

 

[sealybobo]

Does the phrase, "In the beginning" in Genesis chapter 1 refer to the beginning of the creation of this earth or does it refer to the beginning of everything that ever exists outside of God himself?

I the beginning there was gas. Billions of years later stars formed but not our sun or earth. That didn't happen for another 10 billion years.

Sounds very evolutionary. What evidences do we have for this?

Science math Einstein newton carbon dating etc. Evidence the ancients didn't have when they wrote the creation story.

Sorry if the truth conflicts with your story.

And your scientific reality will only last until your next scientific reality. Ours is eternal.

I love it how theists can't believe the cosmos are eternal but instead imagined a god that is. And what's more incredible is that you also believe that when you die YOU live forever? How arrogant and ignorant. It is laughable.

The bible got it wrong. That's why so many theists who still believe in the bible have stopped taking it literally. Even they know the gig is up. Amazing you doubt the smartest humans but believe the ancient superstitions.

 

[sealybobo]

Does the phrase, "In the beginning" in Genesis chapter 1 refer to the beginning of the creation of this earth or does it refer to the beginning of everything that ever exists outside of God himself?

I the beginning there was gas. Billions of years later stars formed but not our sun or earth. That didn't happen for another 10 billion years.

Sounds very evolutionary. What evidences do we have for this?

Science math Einstein newton carbon dating etc. Evidence the ancients didn't have when they wrote the creation story.

Sorry if the truth conflicts with your story.

And your scientific reality will only last until your next scientific reality. Ours is eternal.

No matter how much it is proven wrong? And it doesn't matter really because you'll believe in god even if you realize the stories are just allegories. Many christians do. Its because they want to not because it makes sense.

 

[sealybobo]

Does the phrase, "In the beginning" in Genesis chapter 1 refer to the beginning of the creation of this earth or does it refer to the beginning of everything that ever exists outside of God himself?

I the beginning there was gas. Billions of years later stars formed but not our sun or earth. That didn't happen for another 10 billion years.

Sounds very evolutionary. What evidences do we have for this?

Science math Einstein newton carbon dating etc. Evidence the ancients didn't have when they wrote the creation story.

Sorry if the truth conflicts with your story.

From a Christian perspective on carbon dating there is an interesting video on youtube called, "Carbon Dating Flaws by Kent Hovind" which points out the problems with carbon dating. I found the guy to be very interesting. I don't really believe that the truth is found in carbon dating. Newton was a Christian and often studied the prophesies of the bible. If you search on the web for this you will find it to be quite fascinating.

He tried to find hidden messages in the bible and never got anywhere.

And back then everyone said they were christians. Tell the truth and die. Maybe like me when he was older he woke up and realized it was all bullshit but never said anything.

The creation story doesn't jive with the facts.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

Does the phrase, "In the beginning" in Genesis chapter 1 refer to the beginning of the creation of this earth or does it refer to the beginning of everything that ever exists outside of God himself?

I the beginning there was gas. Billions of years later stars formed but not our sun or earth. That didn't happen for another 10 billion years.

Sounds very evolutionary. What evidences do we have for this?

Science math Einstein newton carbon dating etc. Evidence the ancients didn't have when they wrote the creation story.

Sorry if the truth conflicts with your story.

And your scientific reality will only last until your next scientific reality. Ours is eternal.

Don't you see how closed off to our common reality that kind of mentality is?

It smacks of a need for stability, certainty, an unchanging foundation for your system of beliefs and it's more emotional than it is rational.

It's as if you're saying that having an openness to change and uncertainty is a bad thing.

Not trying to understand and simply accepting a proposition without analysis or critical thought in the face of contradicting information is dogma and the very definition of closed mindedness.

If there is one thing about reality we can say with certainty it is that it is in a constant state of change.