In the beginning...

[Hollie]

Encyclopedia of American Loons Search results for Hovind

Kent Hovind needs no introduction, and plumbing the abyss of his cluelessness is probably not a hygienic enterprise, so we’ll restrict ourselves to the basics (and some examples). Hovind used to be the head of Creation Science Evangelism, a young earth creationist activist group. He also operated a small museum and amusement park known as "Dinosaur Adventure Land". In 2006, during the run-up to Hovind's trial for tax evasion, much of the park was shut down due to Hovind's refusal to secure a building permit. He was convicted on the tax evasion charges and is now serving a 10-year sentence.

...

Diagnosis: Hovind is a riot of insanity, ignorance, crackpottery, delusion, lunacy and idiocy. Thus, he has had rather far-reaching influence. His jail-time may have halted his career, and he seems to have grown even more unhinged during his time in prison. What happens when he is let out in 2015 will be interesting.

 

[sealybobo]

Does the phrase, "In the beginning" in Genesis chapter 1 refer to the beginning of the creation of this earth or does it refer to the beginning of everything that ever exists outside of God himself?

I the beginning there was gas. Billions of years later stars formed but not our sun or earth. That didn't happen for another 10 billion years.

Sounds very evolutionary. What evidences do we have for this?

Science math Einstein newton carbon dating etc. Evidence the ancients didn't have when they wrote the creation story.

Sorry if the truth conflicts with your story.

From a Christian perspective on carbon dating there is an interesting video on youtube called, "Carbon Dating Flaws by Kent Hovind" which points out the problems with carbon dating. I found the guy to be very interesting. I don't really believe that the truth is found in carbon dating. Newton was a Christian and often studied the prophesies of the bible. If you search on the web for this you will find it to be quite fascinating.

He tried to find hidden messages in the bible and never got anywhere.

And back then everyone said they were christians. Tell the truth and die. Maybe like me when he was older he woke up and realized it was all bullshit but never said anything.

The creation story doesn't jive with the facts.

Does the phrase, "In the beginning" in Genesis chapter 1 refer to the beginning of the creation of this earth or does it refer to the beginning of everything that ever exists outside of God himself?

I the beginning there was gas. Billions of years later stars formed but not our sun or earth. That didn't happen for another 10 billion years.

Sounds very evolutionary. What evidences do we have for this?

Science math Einstein newton carbon dating etc. Evidence the ancients didn't have when they wrote the creation story.

Sorry if the truth conflicts with your story.

And your scientific reality will only last until your next scientific reality. Ours is eternal.

Don't you see how closed off to our common reality that kind of mentality is?

It smacks of a need for stability, certainty, an unchanging foundation for your system of beliefs and it's more emotional than it is rational.

It's as if you're saying that having an openness to change and uncertainty is a bad thing.

Not trying to understand and simply accepting a proposition without analysis or critical thought in the face of contradicting information is dogma and the very definition of closed mindedness.

If there is one thing about reality we can say with certainty it is that it is in a constant state of change.

This is why religion is comforting. Humans don't like not knowing. It is dumbfounding to me that these people are so ready to argue with science but won't question the ancients. To me it is frustrating that we are stuck in the stone ages with superstitious thinking. This is why I say religion has held us back. But not so much anymore I guess. It isn't like these people will ever work for NASA or come up with a cure for cancer. But then it is them who fights stem cell and global warming.

Basically humans are still uncivilized and ignorant but luckily the enlightenment or awakening has begun. The more time goes on and the more we learn the more ridiculous religion gets. Eventually it will fade.

I wonder if its possible for a new religion to catch on. Joseph smith pulled it off in 1800 but people were still uneducated and superstitious back then. I can't see that happening today but then again I did just say a lot of people are still dumb so who knows.

 

[onefour1]

Are you saying that it isn't stated in the bible what "In the beginning" is referring to?

If it was, we wouldn't be having this discussion. I think it is vague. Thus any speculation is as valid as any other.

I'm back. I think you are right that it is vague but from the verses, we do know that the creation of the earth occurs prior to the 6 days of creation. Thus the six days of creation do not include the creation of the earth but only the development of the earth once the first light was introduced upon it. Thus what I can surmise is that we don't really know how old the earth really is but we do know that the formation of the earth after being above water and the introduction of plant and animal life occurred within a 6000 year period if you believe the 2 Peter 3:8 verse applies to the length of time of a day according to the reckoning of the first light that shone upon the earth. So I do not agree with those creationists who believe that the earth is 6000 years old. But I also, being a believer in God, do not agree with the evolutionists.

Whether you agree with evolution or not isn't relevant. Evolution does occur, whether it is by design or not is what is a matter for beliefs. Being a theist myself I happen to believe it was.

Light comes from the star, it formed before the earth did. So based solely on what it says it is inaccurate. Now if you want to take metaphorical meanings of light and dark, that would be interpretation, and I'm off the opinion that biblical writings are metaphorical. Which often seems to be a point of contention.

I think in the Bible some verses are metaphorical but I don't see any reason why an account of the creation would be metaphorical. I really don't see any evidence that the sun or moon or stars came before the earth. I think that evolution is every bit a religion as any other. More a belief system than a knowledge. Sure there is variation with a given species but there is no evidence that one specie has evolved into another. For videos on evolution by Dr Hovind watch, "100 Reasons Why Evolution Is STUPID! - Kent Hovind Christian Creationist" and "MORE Reasons Why Evolution is STUPID!! (FULL) | Kent Hovind | Creation Science Evangelism" on youtube.

 

[onefour1]

Please remember that all words are symbols and metaphors, even if the author does not realize it.

For God to be God means to be unlimited. All words limit. All talk of God defines the Undefinable. If one believes in God, limiting God is blasphemy. Thus, all religions are blasphemy IF TAKEN LITERALLY.

The only way to 'know God', if God exists, would have to be by purely individual, intimate revelation that by definition could not be directly shared by anyone else.

At the most, religious texts can only guide one toward a personal relationship with The One, but cannot give it, impose it or even define it.

I don't agree that being a God means that you are unlimited. I believe there are eternal impossibilities that just cannot be done. However, I do believe that God can do all that is possible. We, as inferior beings, do not know all that can be done but God knows all things and he knows what can be done and can do all things that are possible. I think God is a being who has children and he wants his children to know him and emulate him. For man to know of God and what type of being he is, God must communicate with his children and teach them how to be more like him.

Matthew 5:48
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

God is a god of love and wants the best for his children. Thus he finds words as a means of communicating and giving light and knowledge to his children. He has revealed himself to many and has told them to write the things which he has revealed that his children might know him and emulate his goodness.

 

[onefour1]

Does the phrase, "In the beginning" in Genesis chapter 1 refer to the beginning of the creation of this earth or does it refer to the beginning of everything that ever exists outside of God himself?

I the beginning there was gas. Billions of years later stars formed but not our sun or earth. That didn't happen for another 10 billion years.

Sounds very evolutionary. What evidences do we have for this?

Science math Einstein newton carbon dating etc. Evidence the ancients didn't have when they wrote the creation story.

Sorry if the truth conflicts with your story.

And your scientific reality will only last until your next scientific reality. Ours is eternal.

I love it how theists can't believe the cosmos are eternal but instead imagined a god that is. And what's more incredible is that you also believe that when you die YOU live forever? How arrogant and ignorant. It is laughable.

The bible got it wrong. That's why so many theists who still believe in the bible have stopped taking it literally. Even they know the gig is up. Amazing you doubt the smartest humans but believe the ancient superstitions.

I am a theist but I don't believe that God created everything out of nothing. In fact, I don't believe that it is possible, even for God, to create something out of nothing. Many scientists today believe this is possible, it is called the big bang theory. Many Christians and Non-Christians agree on this but I think they are both incorrect. So who are the smartest humans you are referring to and are you sure they were not theists?

 

[RandomVariable]

Please remember that all words are symbols and metaphors, even if the author does not realize it.

For God to be God means to be unlimited. All words limit. All talk of God defines the Undefinable. If one believes in God, limiting God is blasphemy. Thus, all religions are blasphemy IF TAKEN LITERALLY.

The only way to 'know God', if God exists, would have to be by purely individual, intimate revelation that by definition could not be directly shared by anyone else.

At the most, religious texts can only guide one toward a personal relationship with The One, but cannot give it, impose it or even define it.

I don't agree that being a God means that you are unlimited. I believe there are eternal impossibilities that just cannot be done. However, I do believe that God can do all that is possible. We, as inferior beings, do not know all that can be done but God knows all things and he knows what can be done and can do all things that are possible. I think God is a being who has children and he wants his children to know him and emulate him. For man to know of God and what type of being he is, God must communicate with his children and teach them how to be more like him.

Matthew 5:48
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

God is a god of love and wants the best for his children. Thus he finds words as a means of communicating and giving light and knowledge to his children. He has revealed himself to many and has told them to write the things which he has revealed that his children might know him and emulate his goodness.

there4eyeM's idea of god seems very eastern religion influenced.

 

[onefour1]

Does the phrase, "In the beginning" in Genesis chapter 1 refer to the beginning of the creation of this earth or does it refer to the beginning of everything that ever exists outside of God himself?

I the beginning there was gas. Billions of years later stars formed but not our sun or earth. That didn't happen for another 10 billion years.

Sounds very evolutionary. What evidences do we have for this?

Science math Einstein newton carbon dating etc. Evidence the ancients didn't have when they wrote the creation story.

Sorry if the truth conflicts with your story.

And your scientific reality will only last until your next scientific reality. Ours is eternal.

Don't you see how closed off to our common reality that kind of mentality is?

It smacks of a need for stability, certainty, an unchanging foundation for your system of beliefs and it's more emotional than it is rational.

It's as if you're saying that having an openness to change and uncertainty is a bad thing.

Not trying to understand and simply accepting a proposition without analysis or critical thought in the face of contradicting information is dogma and the very definition of closed mindedness.

If there is one thing about reality we can say with certainty it is that it is in a constant state of change.

I once took a course in college called "Political Science". The class was political and historical but in no way science. We have a lot of good science in the world but we also have what I would deem "Political Science". The theory of evolution is one such teaching. Many of the proponents of evolution are anti-religion. They not only oppose evolution but they oppose anything that would suggest intelligent design. It is very simplistic to write off religious people as not trying to understand. I imagine that many people might buy into this argument but it simply is not true. Some of our most notable scientists in history were religious, ie Newton, Galileo, DesCarte, Copernicus, Kepler, Faraday, Hertz, Kelvin, etc. Many of the universities in our country were established by religious organizations. You can label them as dogmatic and closed minded but they are the very foundation of your science.

 

[Hollie]

I the beginning there was gas. Billions of years later stars formed but not our sun or earth. That didn't happen for another 10 billion years.

Sounds very evolutionary. What evidences do we have for this?

Science math Einstein newton carbon dating etc. Evidence the ancients didn't have when they wrote the creation story.

Sorry if the truth conflicts with your story.

And your scientific reality will only last until your next scientific reality. Ours is eternal.

Don't you see how closed off to our common reality that kind of mentality is?

It smacks of a need for stability, certainty, an unchanging foundation for your system of beliefs and it's more emotional than it is rational.

It's as if you're saying that having an openness to change and uncertainty is a bad thing.

Not trying to understand and simply accepting a proposition without analysis or critical thought in the face of contradicting information is dogma and the very definition of closed mindedness.

If there is one thing about reality we can say with certainty it is that it is in a constant state of change.

I once took a course in college called "Political Science". The class was political and historical but in no way science. We have a lot of good science in the world but we also have what I would deem "Political Science". The theory of evolution is one such teaching. Many of the proponents of evolution are anti-religion. They not only oppose evolution but they oppose anything that would suggest intelligent design. It is very simplistic to write off religious people as not trying to understand. I imagine that many people might buy into this argument but it simply is not true. Some of our most notable scientists in history were religious, ie Newton, Galileo, DesCarte, Copernicus, Kepler, Faraday, Hertz, Kelvin, etc. Many of the universities in our country were established by religious organizations. You can label them as dogmatic and closed minded but they are the very foundation of your science.

I really should advise that when your argument advances ID'iot creationism and includes links to promote such quackery as furthered by Kent Hovind, it's impossible to take such nonsense seriously.

 

[onefour1]

Encyclopedia of American Loons Search results for Hovind

Kent Hovind needs no introduction, and plumbing the abyss of his cluelessness is probably not a hygienic enterprise, so we’ll restrict ourselves to the basics (and some examples). Hovind used to be the head of Creation Science Evangelism, a young earth creationist activist group. He also operated a small museum and amusement park known as "Dinosaur Adventure Land". In 2006, during the run-up to Hovind's trial for tax evasion, much of the park was shut down due to Hovind's refusal to secure a building permit. He was convicted on the tax evasion charges and is now serving a 10-year sentence.

...

Diagnosis: Hovind is a riot of insanity, ignorance, crackpottery, delusion, lunacy and idiocy. Thus, he has had rather far-reaching influence. His jail-time may have halted his career, and he seems to have grown even more unhinged during his time in prison. What happens when he is let out in 2015 will be interesting.

John and Jesus also were thrown into prison. Timothy Geitner commited tax fraud and was never sent to jail one day. Any we all know how honest and true the IRS is. I personal believe that Dr Hovind was not withholding income tax on his workers because he truly believed that they were contract workers who were liable for their own taxes. But the government claims they were employees and that he should have withheld the tax. So he went to prison for 10 years and they trying now to keep him in prison. I think there is more going on there than just tax evasion. When congress and the president allow anti-Christian laws to pass, you know they are not Christian. When the US allows 35 muslim terrorist camps to exist in US, you know they up to something. Opening our borders to many illegal aliens to come into the country while enforcing strict anti-terrorist laws on their own citizens shows that we have major problems in our government. Passing the Patriot Act to treat us all as terrorists and bugging all our communications are things that Hitler did prior to his reign of terror. So I don't have a lot of trust that our government is Christian or that they even like Christians anymore. From what I understand, Christians are on their terror lists. So are they being harsh to Mr Hovind or have they gone after him is definitely a possibility in my mind.

Dr Hovind has caused quite a rift in the pad answers of the evolutionists and has debated them at universities around the country. He has won most of the debates. He is a threat to the "Politcal Science" establishment. He is a threat to Al Gore and the Global Warming hoax ( oh, that was changed to climate change since the world is cooling down). Instead of using the following attack:

Diagnosis: Hovind is a riot of insanity, ignorance, crackpottery, delusion, lunacy and idiocy. Thus, he has had rather far-reaching influence. His jail-time may have halted his career, and he seems to have grown even more unhinged during his time in prison. What happens when he is let out in 2015 will be interesting.

why don't you simply present evidence to counter Mr Hovind.

 

[Hollie]

Recently, we've seen evidence that the universe has always existed. If true, there would be no need of gods to create much of anything cuz it was already here.

But if one does believe in the christian god, the bible says we all came from Noah's family screwing each other.

Genesis, virgin birth, Noah ... are we the product of incest, infanticide or what?

The other gods preach variations on the same stuff.

If it were the will of God that Adam and Noah and their families populate the earth, I think in this case incest was not looked down upon and was condoned by God.

I must add that I do believe that things have always existed and I am not a proponent of ex nihilo creation.

So the gawds change their rules for conveniences sake?

 

[onefour1]

Don't tell me that you can't take him seriously or that he's crazy or that he is closed minded. Those are all labels. It this your best defense? Show me where he is wrong. When you use labels it only shows me that you are too weak to argue the point. Here are a few other videos to consider:

"Expelled. No Intelligence Allowed"

""Documentary Unlocking the Mystery of Life Intelligent Design"

 

[Hollie]

Encyclopedia of American Loons Search results for Hovind

Kent Hovind needs no introduction, and plumbing the abyss of his cluelessness is probably not a hygienic enterprise, so we’ll restrict ourselves to the basics (and some examples). Hovind used to be the head of Creation Science Evangelism, a young earth creationist activist group. He also operated a small museum and amusement park known as "Dinosaur Adventure Land". In 2006, during the run-up to Hovind's trial for tax evasion, much of the park was shut down due to Hovind's refusal to secure a building permit. He was convicted on the tax evasion charges and is now serving a 10-year sentence.

...

Diagnosis: Hovind is a riot of insanity, ignorance, crackpottery, delusion, lunacy and idiocy. Thus, he has had rather far-reaching influence. His jail-time may have halted his career, and he seems to have grown even more unhinged during his time in prison. What happens when he is let out in 2015 will be interesting.

John and Jesus also were thrown into prison. Timothy Geitner commited tax fraud and was never sent to jail one day. Any we all know how honest and true the IRS is. I personal believe that Dr Hovind was not withholding income tax on his workers because he truly believed that they were contract workers who were liable for their own taxes. But the government claims they were employees and that he should have withheld the tax. So he went to prison for 10 years and they trying now to keep him in prison. I think there is more going on there than just tax evasion. When congress and the president allow anti-Christian laws to pass, you know they are not Christian. When the US allows 35 muslim terrorist camps to exist in US, you know they up to something. Opening our borders to many illegal aliens to come into the country while enforcing strict anti-terrorist laws on their own citizens shows that we have major problems in our government. Passing the Patriot Act to treat us all as terrorists and bugging all our communications are things that Hitler did prior to his reign of terror. So I don't have a lot of trust that our government is Christian or that they even like Christians anymore. From what I understand, Christians are on their terror lists. So are they being harsh to Mr Hovind or have they gone after him is definitely a possibility in my mind.

Dr Hovind has caused quite a rift in the pad answers of the evolutionists and has debated them at universities around the country. He has won most of the debates. He is a threat to the "Politcal Science" establishment. He is a threat to Al Gore and the Global Warming hoax ( oh, that was changed to climate change since the world is cooling down). Instead of using the following attack:

Diagnosis: Hovind is a riot of insanity, ignorance, crackpottery, delusion, lunacy and idiocy. Thus, he has had rather far-reaching influence. His jail-time may have halted his career, and he seems to have grown even more unhinged during his time in prison. What happens when he is let out in 2015 will be interesting.

why don't you simply present evidence to counter Mr Hovind.

Instead, why don't you present his case for him. I'm not interested in debating a goofy YouTube video.

As you believe Mr. Hovind committed no tax fraud, why not tell us about the facts of the case that personally reviewed so as to come to that decision. I sense a certain amount of conspiracy theory agitation on your part.

 

[Hollie]

Don't tell me that you can't take him seriously or that he's crazy or that he is closed minded. Those are all labels. It this your best defense? Show me where he is wrong. When you use labels it only shows me that you are too weak to argue the point. Here are a few other videos to consider:

"Expelled. No Intelligence Allowed"

""Documentary Unlocking the Mystery of Life Intelligent Design"

I'm afraid that Ben Stein conspiracy theory rants are not going to make your case for ID'iot creationism.

Why don't you make your best case for Mr. Hovind with a comprehensive list of the works he has submitted to scientific journals and publications for peer review?

 

[MaxGrit]

Encyclopedia of American Loons Search results for Hovind

Kent Hovind needs no introduction, and plumbing the abyss of his cluelessness is probably not a hygienic enterprise, so we’ll restrict ourselves to the basics (and some examples). Hovind used to be the head of Creation Science Evangelism, a young earth creationist activist group. He also operated a small museum and amusement park known as "Dinosaur Adventure Land". In 2006, during the run-up to Hovind's trial for tax evasion, much of the park was shut down due to Hovind's refusal to secure a building permit. He was convicted on the tax evasion charges and is now serving a 10-year sentence.

...

Diagnosis: Hovind is a riot of insanity, ignorance, crackpottery, delusion, lunacy and idiocy. Thus, he has had rather far-reaching influence. His jail-time may have halted his career, and he seems to have grown even more unhinged during his time in prison. What happens when he is let out in 2015 will be interesting.

John and Jesus also were thrown into prison. Timothy Geitner commited tax fraud and was never sent to jail one day. Any we all know how honest and true the IRS is. I personal believe that Dr Hovind was not withholding income tax on his workers because he truly believed that they were contract workers who were liable for their own taxes. But the government claims they were employees and that he should have withheld the tax. So he went to prison for 10 years and they trying now to keep him in prison. I think there is more going on there than just tax evasion. When congress and the president allow anti-Christian laws to pass, you know they are not Christian. When the US allows 35 muslim terrorist camps to exist in US, you know they up to something. Opening our borders to many illegal aliens to come into the country while enforcing strict anti-terrorist laws on their own citizens shows that we have major problems in our government. Passing the Patriot Act to treat us all as terrorists and bugging all our communications are things that Hitler did prior to his reign of terror. So I don't have a lot of trust that our government is Christian or that they even like Christians anymore. From what I understand, Christians are on their terror lists. So are they being harsh to Mr Hovind or have they gone after him is definitely a possibility in my mind.

Dr Hovind has caused quite a rift in the pad answers of the evolutionists and has debated them at universities around the country. He has won most of the debates. He is a threat to the "Politcal Science" establishment. He is a threat to Al Gore and the Global Warming hoax ( oh, that was changed to climate change since the world is cooling down). Instead of using the following attack:

Diagnosis: Hovind is a riot of insanity, ignorance, crackpottery, delusion, lunacy and idiocy. Thus, he has had rather far-reaching influence. His jail-time may have halted his career, and he seems to have grown even more unhinged during his time in prison. What happens when he is let out in 2015 will be interesting.

why don't you simply present evidence to counter Mr Hovind.

John 15
“If the world hates you, know that it has hated me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love you as its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. Remember the word that I said to you: ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted me, they will also persecute you.

 

[Hollie]

Encyclopedia of American Loons Search results for Hovind

Kent Hovind needs no introduction, and plumbing the abyss of his cluelessness is probably not a hygienic enterprise, so we’ll restrict ourselves to the basics (and some examples). Hovind used to be the head of Creation Science Evangelism, a young earth creationist activist group. He also operated a small museum and amusement park known as "Dinosaur Adventure Land". In 2006, during the run-up to Hovind's trial for tax evasion, much of the park was shut down due to Hovind's refusal to secure a building permit. He was convicted on the tax evasion charges and is now serving a 10-year sentence.

...

Diagnosis: Hovind is a riot of insanity, ignorance, crackpottery, delusion, lunacy and idiocy. Thus, he has had rather far-reaching influence. His jail-time may have halted his career, and he seems to have grown even more unhinged during his time in prison. What happens when he is let out in 2015 will be interesting.

John and Jesus also were thrown into prison. Timothy Geitner commited tax fraud and was never sent to jail one day. Any we all know how honest and true the IRS is. I personal believe that Dr Hovind was not withholding income tax on his workers because he truly believed that they were contract workers who were liable for their own taxes. But the government claims they were employees and that he should have withheld the tax. So he went to prison for 10 years and they trying now to keep him in prison. I think there is more going on there than just tax evasion. When congress and the president allow anti-Christian laws to pass, you know they are not Christian. When the US allows 35 muslim terrorist camps to exist in US, you know they up to something. Opening our borders to many illegal aliens to come into the country while enforcing strict anti-terrorist laws on their own citizens shows that we have major problems in our government. Passing the Patriot Act to treat us all as terrorists and bugging all our communications are things that Hitler did prior to his reign of terror. So I don't have a lot of trust that our government is Christian or that they even like Christians anymore. From what I understand, Christians are on their terror lists. So are they being harsh to Mr Hovind or have they gone after him is definitely a possibility in my mind.

Dr Hovind has caused quite a rift in the pad answers of the evolutionists and has debated them at universities around the country. He has won most of the debates. He is a threat to the "Politcal Science" establishment. He is a threat to Al Gore and the Global Warming hoax ( oh, that was changed to climate change since the world is cooling down). Instead of using the following attack:

Diagnosis: Hovind is a riot of insanity, ignorance, crackpottery, delusion, lunacy and idiocy. Thus, he has had rather far-reaching influence. His jail-time may have halted his career, and he seems to have grown even more unhinged during his time in prison. What happens when he is let out in 2015 will be interesting.

why don't you simply present evidence to counter Mr Hovind.

John 15
“If the world hates you, know that it has hated me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love you as its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. Remember the word that I said to you: ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted me, they will also persecute you.

John 15 a.
"There's a lot of hate in this religion because hate is a powerful motivator. A kick-ass gawd of vengeance and retribution will get the laggards and layabouts off their arses and out threatening others with eternal torment with an offer they can't refuse. Capisce?

 

[Coloradomtnman]

I the beginning there was gas. Billions of years later stars formed but not our sun or earth. That didn't happen for another 10 billion years.

Sounds very evolutionary. What evidences do we have for this?

Science math Einstein newton carbon dating etc. Evidence the ancients didn't have when they wrote the creation story.

Sorry if the truth conflicts with your story.

And your scientific reality will only last until your next scientific reality. Ours is eternal.

Don't you see how closed off to our common reality that kind of mentality is?

It smacks of a need for stability, certainty, an unchanging foundation for your system of beliefs and it's more emotional than it is rational.

It's as if you're saying that having an openness to change and uncertainty is a bad thing.

Not trying to understand and simply accepting a proposition without analysis or critical thought in the face of contradicting information is dogma and the very definition of closed mindedness.

If there is one thing about reality we can say with certainty it is that it is in a constant state of change.

I once took a course in college called "Political Science". The class was political and historical but in no way science. We have a lot of good science in the world but we also have what I would deem "Political Science". The theory of evolution is one such teaching. Many of the proponents of evolution are anti-religion. They not only oppose evolution but they oppose anything that would suggest intelligent design. It is very simplistic to write off religious people as not trying to understand. I imagine that many people might buy into this argument but it simply is not true. Some of our most notable scientists in history were religious, ie Newton, Galileo, DesCarte, Copernicus, Kepler, Faraday, Hertz, Kelvin, etc. Many of the universities in our country were established by religious organizations. You can label them as dogmatic and closed minded but they are the very foundation of your science.

Science has its foundations in number of religions. Descartes, who came up with the scientific method, was a very religious Christian. I am grateful that science exists and appreciate those who founded it.

The modern theories of evolution are not political, but are the some of the most robust in science and are hard science unlike polisci or history. You don't understand them. You've only been exposed to them from the likes of Kent shoving and his type. He doesn't understand these theories. You really need to educate yourself about these theories before judging them, from a scientific perspective. There are many, many Christians who do not oppose the theories of evolution because it has no political agenda.

I do not label all Christians or those of faith close minded or dogmatic - just that poster who wrote something that were those things

Proponents of evolution are proponents of science. Intelligent Design isn't science because science can't test for God. It can't put God under a microscope or test Him in a lab. Science can't prove or disprove God. He lies outside the purview of science. And true science doesn't assume the answer first and look for a way to connect that answer to the data. The data comes first and the answer comes from that. That doesn't mean that ID isn't true, it just isn't science.

 

[Inevitable]

Are you saying that it isn't stated in the bible what "In the beginning" is referring to?

If it was, we wouldn't be having this discussion. I think it is vague. Thus any speculation is as valid as any other.

I'm back. I think you are right that it is vague but from the verses, we do know that the creation of the earth occurs prior to the 6 days of creation. Thus the six days of creation do not include the creation of the earth but only the development of the earth once the first light was introduced upon it. Thus what I can surmise is that we don't really know how old the earth really is but we do know that the formation of the earth after being above water and the introduction of plant and animal life occurred within a 6000 year period if you believe the 2 Peter 3:8 verse applies to the length of time of a day according to the reckoning of the first light that shone upon the earth. So I do not agree with those creationists who believe that the earth is 6000 years old. But I also, being a believer in God, do not agree with the evolutionists.

Whether you agree with evolution or not isn't relevant. Evolution does occur, whether it is by design or not is what is a matter for beliefs. Being a theist myself I happen to believe it was.

Light comes from the star, it formed before the earth did. So based solely on what it says it is inaccurate. Now if you want to take metaphorical meanings of light and dark, that would be interpretation, and I'm off the opinion that biblical writings are metaphorical. Which often seems to be a point of contention.

I think in the Bible some verses are metaphorical but I don't see any reason why an account of the creation would be metaphorical. I really don't see any evidence that the sun or moon or stars came before the earth. I think that evolution is every bit a religion as any other. More a belief system than a knowledge. Sure there is variation with a given species but there is no evidence that one specie has evolved into another. For videos on evolution by Dr Hovind watch, "100 Reasons Why Evolution Is STUPID! - Kent Hovind Christian Creationist" and "MORE Reasons Why Evolution is STUPID!! (FULL) | Kent Hovind | Creation Science Evangelism" on youtube.

I find zero intelligence in denying evolution. Christian creationists suffer from confirmation bias.

Evolution is fact.

 

[Inevitable]

Don't tell me that you can't take him seriously or that he's crazy or that he is closed minded. Those are all labels. It this your best defense? Show me where he is wrong. When you use labels it only shows me that you are too weak to argue the point. Here are a few other videos to consider:

"Expelled. No Intelligence Allowed"

""Documentary Unlocking the Mystery of Life Intelligent Design"

Don't tell me that you can't take him seriously or that he's crazy or that he is closed minded. Those are all labels. It this your best defense? Show me where he is wrong. When you use labels it only shows me that you are too weak to argue the point. Here are a few other videos to consider:

"Expelled. No Intelligence Allowed"

""Documentary Unlocking the Mystery of Life Intelligent Design"

He is wrong when he denies evolution.

Show me how he is right.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

I the beginning there was gas. Billions of years later stars formed but not our sun or earth. That didn't happen for another 10 billion years.

Sounds very evolutionary. What evidences do we have for this?

Science math Einstein newton carbon dating etc. Evidence the ancients didn't have when they wrote the creation story.

Sorry if the truth conflicts with your story.

And your scientific reality will only last until your next scientific reality. Ours is eternal.

I love it how theists can't believe the cosmos are eternal but instead imagined a god that is. And what's more incredible is that you also believe that when you die YOU live forever? How arrogant and ignorant. It is laughable.

The bible got it wrong. That's why so many theists who still believe in the bible have stopped taking it literally. Even they know the gig is up. Amazing you doubt the smartest humans but believe the ancient superstitions.

I am a theist but I don't believe that God created everything out of nothing. In fact, I don't believe that it is possible, even for God, to create something out of nothing. Many scientists today believe this is possible, it is called the big bang theory. Many Christians and Non-Christians agree on this but I think they are both incorrect. So who are the smartest humans you are referring to and are you sure they were not theists?

The Big Bang theory does not claim that everything or even anything came from nothing. All the Big Bang theory attempts to describe is that it appears that all the visible Universe came from a highly energetic expansion of energy and matter. What caused this "bang" or what came before it is not part of any official scientific theory. It is not the most robust of scientific theories and there is a lot of room for it to be constantly challenged by physicists, cosmologists, and mathematicians - which it is.

 

[sealybobo]

I the beginning there was gas. Billions of years later stars formed but not our sun or earth. That didn't happen for another 10 billion years.

Sounds very evolutionary. What evidences do we have for this?

Science math Einstein newton carbon dating etc. Evidence the ancients didn't have when they wrote the creation story.

Sorry if the truth conflicts with your story.

And your scientific reality will only last until your next scientific reality. Ours is eternal.

I love it how theists can't believe the cosmos are eternal but instead imagined a god that is. And what's more incredible is that you also believe that when you die YOU live forever? How arrogant and ignorant. It is laughable.

The bible got it wrong. That's why so many theists who still believe in the bible have stopped taking it literally. Even they know the gig is up. Amazing you doubt the smartest humans but believe the ancient superstitions.

I am a theist but I don't believe that God created everything out of nothing. In fact, I don't believe that it is possible, even for God, to create something out of nothing. Many scientists today believe this is possible, it is called the big bang theory. Many Christians and Non-Christians agree on this but I think they are both incorrect. So who are the smartest humans you are referring to and are you sure they were not theists?

Lots of smart people believe in god. So what? What evidence do they have? So smart people can believe stupid things to.

Blow a candle out. How did you do it with "nothing?"

Until we know best to admit we don't rather than say must be god.