Zone1 I'm Having An Issue With A Part Of The Bible

[Red Front]

Speaking of communism:

The TRUE Catholic Church is against it.

The novus ordo (new order), Francis sect "church" is not (although some individual NO priests likely are still against communism but the Vatican... ha ha.. what a joke)

If you want to believe that the Roman Catholic Church is the true assembly of the Messiah, go right ahead. Believe whatever seems right to you.

 

[SweetSue92]

1Jn_3:8 he that doeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. To this end was the Son of God manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

How does he finally destroy the works of the devil in this fallen world? Through His body or "church". His assembly of disciples defeats Satan in this world. Without them, YHWH doesn't function in this physical universe. Yahweh employs His creatures to manifest His will and presence.

You're wrong about YHWH God not needing anything or anyone, to accomplish His will. Can God be a Creator, without His creation? Can God be King, without a Kingdom with subjects? Can God be a Father, without His children? Can God spread the gospel throughout the world, without His people preaching His Word? God could just turn everyone into a Christian in a hundredth of a second, but that's not His will. Everyone would just be a robot if He did that, so His will requires a certain process and course of action, that doesn't include Him turning everyone into a Christian. God has to do certain things.

If God wants to save the world, then He has to, by the nature of reality itself, take certain actions and not others. Choose to do this and not something else, which would result in an outcome that He doesn't want. So your claim that God needs nothing is wrong. God needs to do certain things and to not do others, in order to accomplish His will.

In this world, nothing will ever get accomplished for God's Kingdom, if Christians hold your opinion. There's an epedemic of disobedience, rebelion in the church, hence Christianity has become a joke. A pathetic caricature of what it was supposed to be. Completely impotent and worthless.

You still have a real problem with brevity, which makes your posts almost unreadable. It's better to be condensed on a MB than to type a treatise every time you post. But whatever, you're young so you won't listen. Okay.

Satan is not defeated by people.

Read Revelations. No. Really. Read it.

 

[Red Front]

You still have a real problem with brevity, which makes your posts almost unreadable. It's better to be condensed on a MB than to type a treatise every time you post. But whatever, you're young so you won't listen. Okay.

Satan is not defeated by people.

Read Revelations. No. Really. Read it.

You must overcome that's what the Bible states. If my posts are unreadable, don't read them. Just click "ignore" on my profile. I wouldn't waste my time trying to read "unreadable" posts, so why should you?

 

[SweetSue92]

You must overcome that's what the Bible states. If my posts are unreadable, don't read them. Just click "ignore" on my profile. I wouldn't waste my time trying to read "unreadable" posts, so why should you?

I must "overcome" what the Bible says?

No.

Let's start there.

Secondly, if the Bible is not your authority on God, what is? Chinese fortune cookies?

 

[Red Front]

I must "overcome" what the Bible says?

No.

Let's start there.

Secondly, if the Bible is not your authority on God, what is? Chinese fortune cookies?

Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
Rev 3:22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Him that overcometh...just as Yeshua overcame. You and I must carry our crosses daily, dying daily. That's what the Christian NT teaches, and you are supposedly a disciple of Yeshua, correct? You must overcome.


1Jn_2:13 I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father.
1Jn_2:14 I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.

1Jn_4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Rom_12:21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good

Rom 12:9 Let love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good.

You must cleave to that which is good and overcome evil. You SweetSue.

Is the post too long now? Did I write too much? I can't present more evidence for my case against your assertion that we can't and shouldn't overcome evil? I can present more evidence, but you won't read it. You probably didn't even bother to read the above scriptures. Anyways, for the rest of you who are in search of truth, keep reading. This is for you because she can't read too much, it hurts her eyes.


Rev_12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

In the above passage you just read, who overcame who? Let's read it in context:

Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
Rev 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
Rev 12:15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
Rev 12:16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.


The woman is the church. The assembly of Messiah and the evil one will make war against His people, but those who keep the commandments of God and bear the testimony of Yeshua Ha'Mashiach will defeat the evil one. They will reign with Messiah, with a rod of iron, over the nations. This is the remnant seed, the wheat opposed to the tares, the genuine disciples of Yeshua, who keep His commandments and testimony.

It's not just praying a sinner's prayer that saves you unless you're the thief on the cross, who just learned about Yeshua and is brought to repentance by the grace of YHWH. There's no sin option in YHWH's salvation package. Sorry. There's no carpeting the trenches or fox holes, no drywalling, no airconditioning, no cable or WIFI, no Playstations on this battlefield, your King expects you to fight and overcome the world. If you expect to be a member of His royal family, reigning with Him as a governor over the nations, from heaven, in an immortal, luminous body full of divine glory and power, then you must lay it all down here for the Kingdom of YHWH. There are no shortcuts. The way of Messiah is narrow. Pick up your cross and start walking soldier.

Many of you here in this forum are in your 70s and 80s, some of you might even be older than that. Why the hesitation? This is the last chapter of your mortal, worldly life, and you still hesitate to lay it all down at the foot of the cross? Talk about stubbornness. I'm about to turn 50 in a few weeks and I'm already seeing how vain and worthless this carnal life is, this world is a pile of dung without YHWH. What are you waiting for? Heck if I were your age, I would be completely focused on serving my King and Savior, with fear and trembling, because our meeting is not that far away. YHWH can use you powerfully if you're a senior. He might have a ministry for you, even in your 80s and 90s.

 

[SweetSue92]

Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
Rev 3:22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Him that overcometh...just as Yeshua overcame. You and I must carry our crosses daily, dying daily. That's what the Christian NT teaches, and you are supposedly a disciple of Yeshua, correct? You must overcome.


1Jn_2:13 I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father.
1Jn_2:14 I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.

1Jn_4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Rom_12:21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good

Rom 12:9 Let love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good.

You must cleave to that which is good and overcome evil. You SweetSue.

Is the post too long now? Did I write too much? I can't present more evidence for my case against your assertion that we can't and shouldn't overcome evil? I can present more evidence, but you won't read it. You probably didn't even bother to read the above scriptures. Anyways, for the rest of you who are in search of truth, keep reading. This is for you because she can't read too much, it hurts her eyes.


Rev_12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

In the above passage you just read, who overcame who? Let's read it in context:

Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
Rev 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
Rev 12:15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
Rev 12:16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.


The woman is the church. The assembly of Messiah and the evil one will make war against His people, but those who keep the commandments of God and bear the testimony of Yeshua Ha'Mashiach will defeat the evil one. They will reign with Messiah, with a rod of iron, over the nations. This is the remnant seed, the wheat opposed to the tares, the genuine disciples of Yeshua, who keep His commandments and testimony.

It's not just praying a sinner's prayer that saves you unless you're the thief on the cross, who just learned about Yeshua and is brought to repentance by the grace of YHWH. There's no sin option in YHWH's salvation package. Sorry. There's no carpeting the trenches or fox holes, no drywalling, no airconditioning, no cable or WIFI, no Playstations on this battlefield, your King expects you to fight and overcome the world. If you expect to be a member of His royal family, reigning with Him as a governor over the nations, from heaven, in an immortal, luminous body full of divine glory and power, then you must lay it all down here for the Kingdom of YHWH. There are no shortcuts. The way of Messiah is narrow. Pick up your cross and start walking.

Many of you here in this forum are in your 70s and 80s, some of you might even be older than that. Why the hesitation? This is the last chapter of your mortal, worldly life, and you still hesitate to lay it all down at the foot of the cross? Talk about stubbornness. I'm about to turn 50 in a few weeks and I'm already seeing how vain and worthless this carnal life is, this world is a pile of dung without YHWH. What are you waiting for? Heck if I were your age, I would be completely focused on serving my King and Savior, with fear and trembling, because our meeting is not that far away.

I am 53.

The Bible has all kinds of advice about how to stay true to our calling. That's not at issue here. What is at issue if you asserting that WE will defeat Satan when all throughout the Bible this is not the case. From Genesis, Jesus defeats Satan.

And when I rightly cite this, you tell me I have to "overcome" the Bible.

I'm glad you're on the right road, but you're still giving your humanity--our humanity--entirely too much credit. If God is God, He does not need to enlist our help.

And trust me: He is God. I have been a born again Christian for nearly 20 years now.

 

[surada]

Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
Rev 3:22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Him that overcometh...just as Yeshua overcame. You and I must carry our crosses daily, dying daily. That's what the Christian NT teaches, and you are supposedly a disciple of Yeshua, correct? You must overcome.


1Jn_2:13 I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father.
1Jn_2:14 I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.

1Jn_4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Rom_12:21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good

Rom 12:9 Let love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good.

You must cleave to that which is good and overcome evil. You SweetSue.

Is the post too long now? Did I write too much? I can't present more evidence for my case against your assertion that we can't and shouldn't overcome evil? I can present more evidence, but you won't read it. You probably didn't even bother to read the above scriptures. Anyways, for the rest of you who are in search of truth, keep reading. This is for you because she can't read too much, it hurts her eyes.


Rev_12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

In the above passage you just read, who overcame who? Let's read it in context:

Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
Rev 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
Rev 12:15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
Rev 12:16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.


The woman is the church. The assembly of Messiah and the evil one will make war against His people, but those who keep the commandments of God and bear the testimony of Yeshua Ha'Mashiach will defeat the evil one. They will reign with Messiah, with a rod of iron, over the nations. This is the remnant seed, the wheat opposed to the tares, the genuine disciples of Yeshua, who keep His commandments and testimony.

It's not just praying a sinner's prayer that saves you unless you're the thief on the cross, who just learned about Yeshua and is brought to repentance by the grace of YHWH. There's no sin option in YHWH's salvation package. Sorry. There's no carpeting the trenches or fox holes, no drywalling, no airconditioning, no cable or WIFI, no Playstations on this battlefield, your King expects you to fight and overcome the world. If you expect to be a member of His royal family, reigning with Him as a governor over the nations, from heaven, in an immortal, luminous body full of divine glory and power, then you must lay it all down here for the Kingdom of YHWH. There are no shortcuts. The way of Messiah is narrow. Pick up your cross and start walking.

Many of you here in this forum are in your 70s and 80s, some of you might even be older than that. Why the hesitation? This is the last chapter of your mortal, worldly life, and you still hesitate to lay it all down at the foot of the cross? Talk about stubbornness. I'm about to turn 50 in a few weeks and I'm already seeing how vain and worthless this carnal life is, this world is a pile of dung without YHWH. What are you waiting for? Heck if I were your age, I would be completely focused on serving my King and Savior, with fear and trembling, because our meeting is not that far away.

Some say the woman is the virgin Mary.. others say the woman is Israel or the church.

Remember the flight to Pella.

Revelation 12 in Preterist Perspective › The Forerunner

www.forerunner.com

 

[Red Front]

I am 53.

The Bible has all kinds of advice about how to stay true to our calling. That's not at issue here. What is at issue if you asserting that WE will defeat Satan when all throughout the Bible this is not the case. From Genesis, Jesus defeats Satan.

And when I rightly cite this, you tell me I have to "overcome" the Bible.

I'm glad you're on the right road, but you're still giving your humanity--our humanity--entirely too much credit. If God is God, He does not need to enlist our help.

And trust me: He is God. I have been a born again Christian for nearly 20 years now.

You can ignore all of my points and the scriptures that I've presented, but others won't. The Bible is explicit, you have to submit yourself to YHWH and His Son, if you're going to be saved. Again, I presented you with plenty of scriptures stating that Christians overcame, and must now overcome through the power vested in them by their Lord and Savior. The Christian life is one of personal sacrifice and commitment to YHWH's Kingdom. To believe otherwise is to deceive yourself.

 

[Red Front]

Some say the woman is the virgin Mary.. others say the woman is Israel or the church.

Remember the flight to Pella.

Revelation 12 in Preterist Perspective › The Forerunner

www.forerunner.com

Actually, Mary and the Church are merged by many Catholics in those verses, but nonetheless, her seed are the Christians who keep the commandments and the testimony of the Messiah. This is explicit, so there's no way to dismiss it.

 

[surada]

Actually, Mary and the Church are merged by many Catholics in those verses, but nonetheless, her seed are the Christians who keep the commandments and the testimony of the Messiah. This is explicit, so there's no way to dismiss it.

Did you read the link? It's been around a lot longer than 1970.

 

[SweetSue92]

You can ignore all of my points and the scriptures that I've presented, but others won't. The Bible is explicit, you have to submit yourself to YHWH and His Son, if you're going to be saved. Again, I presented you with plenty of scriptures stating that Christians overcame, and must now overcome through the power vested in them by their Lord and Savior. The Christian life is one of personal sacrifice and commitment to YHWH's Kingdom. To believe otherwise is to deceive yourself.

How long have you been a Christian?

 

[Red Front]

Did you read the link? It's been around a lot longer than 1970.

Do you want me to chase links? Is that how you defend your case or position? You write a couple of lines with a link, "hey go to that link, and read the article, that's my evidence". I present quotes from articles, with a link to the source, and plenty of commentaries which you've complained about because supposedly my posts are "too long". Maybe your posts are too short? Make your case here, elaborate, explain, make a point and commit to it and then present your links i.e. references.

 

[Red Front]

How long have you been a Christian?

Irrelevant.

 

[SweetSue92]

Irrelevant.

It is not at all irrelevant. It has to do with the parable of the seeds.

Seed that lands on hard soil and never takes root
Seed that gets burnt by the sun, no root
Seed that gets eaten by bird
And seed that takes healthy root and grows and grows and grows.

Sanctification does not happen in a short amount of time. It happens slowly, over time. You are mostly on the right track. But I am telling you that we are not at all enlisted in an "army" to "defeat Satan". We are the elect; we are the saints, and even that is not of our doing.

 

[Red Front]

It is not at all irrelevant. It has to do with the parable of the seeds.

Seed that lands on hard soil and never takes root
Seed that gets burnt by the sun, no root
Seed that gets eaten by bird
And seed that takes healthy root and grows and grows and grows.

Sanctification does not happen in a short amount of time. It happens slowly, over time. You are mostly on the right track. But I am telling you that we are not at all enlisted in an "army" to "defeat Satan". We are the elect; we are the saints, and even that is not of our doing.

Nonetheless, the scriptures explicitly state, as I already showed in an earlier post, that the saints must overcome in and through the Messiah. If you are really of the elect, then you will bear fruit and overcome the world, in Messiah. The saints keep the commandments, they don't live in rebellion and sin. You have to obey your Lord and Savior, living for Him.

 

[SweetSue92]

Nonetheless, the scriptures explicitly state, as I already showed in an earlier post, that the saints must overcome in and through the Messiah. If you are really of the elect, then you will bear fruit and overcome the world, in Messiah. The saints keep the commandments, they don't live in rebellion and sin.

All of this is true, in daily Christian living.

It is not true at the End of the Age. Jesus defeats Satan. You realize this is even in Genesis--3:15

 

[Red Front]

All of this is true, in daily Christian living.

It is not true at the End of the Age. Jesus defeats Satan. You realize this is even in Genesis--3:15

Yes, and he does it in and through His assembly. The Messiah, the Prince of Israel, goes to war with Satan, leading an army comprised of his angels. Here on earth, we are part of his "Sabaoth" or armies. We will also reign with Him over the nations, with a rod of iron. There's a heavenly and earthly Israel at the moment. Mortal and immortal, natural and spiritual.

 

[ding]

On one hand I understand what Jesus is saying when He says that all those that are His friends will obey His commandments, but on the other hand imagine if Jesus wasn't the Son of God and He was just a regular person. I'm not saying that He wasn't human, but imagine that He wasn't the Lord and just somebody else speaking to you like that and then follows it up with He doesn't call us servants but yet still says that we need to obey His orders if we want to be friends with Him. Wouldn't that be a tad bit messed up? If He wasn't the Lord of all creation I don't think I would be interested in a friendship like that.

You seem to have a lot of issues with the Bible.

 

[SweetSue92]

Yes, and he does it in and through His assembly. The Messiah, the Prince of Israel, goes to war with Satan, leading an army comprised of his angels. Here on earth, we are part of his "Sabaoth" or armies. We will also reign with Him over the nations, with a rod of iron.

Since you are a new Christian and you told me I have to "overcome" my value in the Bible---

Where are you getting this information?

 

[Red Front]

Since you are a new Christian and you told me I have to "overcome" my value in the Bible---

Where are you getting this information?

You have to overcome Satan in and through your faith and life in Messiah, and yes your erroneous views about the Bible being inerrant, must likewise be overcome. If your faith is hooked or hanging on the premise that the Bible is inerrant and your primary source of guidance, you're most likely in serious theological error and not a disciple of the Messiah. You might be spared the second death and become part of the nations, but you're not a born-again, spirit-filled disciple, who will reign with Messiah over the nations.