Zone1 I'm Having An Issue With A Part Of The Bible

[Road Runner]

On one hand I understand what Jesus is saying when He says that all those that are His friends will obey His commandments, but on the other hand imagine if Jesus wasn't the Son of God and He was just a regular person. I'm not saying that He wasn't human, but imagine that He wasn't the Lord and just somebody else speaking to you like that and then follows it up with He doesn't call us servants but yet still says that we need to obey His orders if we want to be friends with Him. Wouldn't that be a tad bit messed up? If He wasn't the Lord of all creation I don't think I would be interested in a friendship like that.

 

[GMCGeneral]

On one hand I understand what Jesus is saying when He says that all those that are His friends will obey His commandments, but on the other hand imagine if Jesus wasn't the Son of God and He was just a regular person. I'm not saying that He wasn't human, but imagine that He wasn't the Lord and just somebody else speaking to you like that and then follows it up with He doesn't call us servants but yet still says that we need to obey His orders if we want to be friends with Him. Wouldn't that be a tad bit messed up? If He wasn't the Lord of all creation I don't think I would be interested in a friendship like that.

In an answer to that, Jesus would not be able to make that statement if His claim to be the Sovereign G-d of Creation wasn't true, and proven by His bodily resurrection. Without His deity, He would have been exposed as a fraud.

 

[onefour1]

I think that this issue would be a bigger dilemma if the teachings of Jesus seemed oppressive in any way, but his teaching of free will and loving and caring for one another along with a strong good moral basis gives him much credence not to mention that he performed miracles and resurrected. Sure, you still have to have faith that it is all true but history tells us that Jesus actually existed and that he did have a reputation for being a great teacher. Christianity was not a fly by night concept but has taken the world in great numbers and has given hope to billions of souls. Faith is still required to believe but the good teachings and the hope that the true message Christ taught give great hope in living a good life and a hope for a positive future beyond death. It is a faith basket I am willing to put all my eggs.

 

[occupied]

Jesus only gave us two commandments. They are not that hard to understand. The problem is people ransacking the OT looking for exceptions.

 

[Road Runner]

In an answer to that, Jesus would not be able to make that statement if His claim to be the Sovereign G-d of Creation wasn't true, and proven by His bodily resurrection. Without His deity, He would have been exposed as a fraud.

Good point, it's just out of context it seems a little bit harsh and bossy but I already know that Jesus didn't mean it like that. Otherwise, why would He have eaten with sinners?

 

[frigidweirdo]

On one hand I understand what Jesus is saying when He says that all those that are His friends will obey His commandments, but on the other hand imagine if Jesus wasn't the Son of God and He was just a regular person. I'm not saying that He wasn't human, but imagine that He wasn't the Lord and just somebody else speaking to you like that and then follows it up with He doesn't call us servants but yet still says that we need to obey His orders if we want to be friends with Him. Wouldn't that be a tad bit messed up? If He wasn't the Lord of all creation I don't think I would be interested in a friendship like that.

Image Jesus came back today, who'd believe him? No one, except maybe a few crazies who were bored.

Maybe it was the same back then.

 

[night_son]

Good point, it's just out of context it seems a little bit harsh and bossy but I already know that Jesus didn't mean it like that. Otherwise, why would He have eaten with sinners?

Humans are bred and born to be "bossed" around, to ask when commanded to jump, "How high?" We all like to believe we're some kind of rebel rugged individualists who exercise complete free will on a daily basis. However, we all also know that's complete bullshit. We all obey our work bosses as if they were our slave masters. We all pay taxes and play nice with the State because everyone is terrified of the State's godlike power held over us like a gun pointed eternally at our heads. In truth, none of us are free . . . not in any way, shape or form . . . unless one is ending their own life; I suppose that final action and that one alone is the only truly free act one can commit.

Do not feel regret over questioning authority in any form. Question all authority wherever you encounter it. There was a time—not too many centuries past, now—when Christianity was used by the State to lock down the minds and behaviors of those the State could not totally dominate with threat of force alone. During those dark times Kings and Dukes and all manner of ruling nobility relied on the Church to preach absolute surrender and obedience to the State as part of their regular sermons.

Times have changed, religions have lost much of their State sponsored power to enforce and terrorize the masses. Nevertheless, millions and millions of people still freely surrender their spirit and will to the State through Christianity because it says to do so in the bible. Go figure. I suppose humans really aren't much more than cattle one can train to do the same tricks long, long after their master has returned to the dust of the ground. By such reasoning I wonder if people in general can be trained to bounce beach balls on their noses . . .

 

[SweetSue92]

On one hand I understand what Jesus is saying when He says that all those that are His friends will obey His commandments, but on the other hand imagine if Jesus wasn't the Son of God and He was just a regular person. I'm not saying that He wasn't human, but imagine that He wasn't the Lord and just somebody else speaking to you like that and then follows it up with He doesn't call us servants but yet still says that we need to obey His orders if we want to be friends with Him. Wouldn't that be a tad bit messed up? If He wasn't the Lord of all creation I don't think I would be interested in a friendship like that.

It's not fruitful to imagine what is impossible.

Jesus is who He is. And honestly, the same with us. I could have said, when I was raising my children, "if I were someone's friend and demanded they brush their teeth and clean their room, I would be a terrible friend". And that is certainly true, but being a friend to my children when they were growing was not my role. My role was to do everything I could to raise them to be godly, loving, productive citizens. That's a different role than just "friend"--and the same with Jesus. He is Friend but much, much more. Obeying Him is what's best for us, and He knows this because He is eternal. He is God.

 

[luiza]

Paul gave you the son of god garbage as he needed to convert the Romans with some Superman story.

Just stick to the basic story of Jesus being an above average guy and you will not be far wrong.

Same comment re. The Trinity .

Just story telling .

Father Xmas for the kids and Jesus Son of God for gullible adult Sheeple .

 

[Road Runner]

It's not fruitful to imagine what is impossible.

Jesus is who He is. And honestly, the same with us. I could have said, when I was raising my children, "if I were someone's friend and demanded they brush their teeth and clean their room, I would be a terrible friend". And that is certainly true, but being a friend to my children when they were growing was not my role. My role was to do everything I could to raise them to be godly, loving, productive citizens. That's a different role than just "friend"--and the same with Jesus. He is Friend but much, much more. Obeying Him is what's best for us, and He knows this because He is eternal. He is God.

Maybe He should have worded that differently then as I see what you're saying but being Lord AND a friend talking to you like that is a whole lot different than somebody who is just your friend talking to you like that.

 

[Clyde 154]

On one hand I understand what Jesus is saying when He says that all those that are His friends will obey His commandments, but on the other hand imagine if Jesus wasn't the Son of God and He was just a regular person. I'm not saying that He wasn't human, but imagine that He wasn't the Lord and just somebody else speaking to you like that and then follows it up with He doesn't call us servants but yet still says that we need to obey His orders if we want to be friends with Him. Wouldn't that be a tad bit messed up? If He wasn't the Lord of all creation I don't think I would be interested in a friendship like that.

Jesus Christ (God incarnate) looks to humanity as His children. As the children of God.......you don't need a friend, you need a righteous parent that will teach and instruct you in TRUTH. You are looking at the situation as if you are the equal of God instead of being in a Parent Child relationship......you don't need a friend, you need righteous authority in your life grounded in truth, as that is the very mission statement of Jesus Christ, to deliver truth from Heaven. A parent will tell you like it is because he/she does not want harm to come to you......a friend will seek your accolade, often avoiding pointing out your flaws and the things that you are lacking in your life.

Truth = Love.

 

[Road Runner]

Clyde 154 I guess it's sort of like the fact that since becoming an adult I've struck up a friendship with my parents but I still honor and respect them as my parents first.

 

[Cougarbear]

Humans are bred and born to be "bossed" around, to ask when commanded to jump, "How high?" We all like to believe we're some kind of rebel rugged individualists who exercise complete free will on a daily basis. However, we all also know that's complete bullshit. We all obey our work bosses as if they were our slave masters. We all pay taxes and play nice with the State because everyone is terrified of the State's godlike power held over us like a gun pointed eternally at our heads. In truth, none of us are free . . . not in any way, shape or form . . . unless one is ending their own life; I suppose that final action and that one alone is the only truly free act one can commit.

Do not feel regret over questioning authority in any form. Question all authority wherever you encounter it. There was a time—not too many centuries past, now—when Christianity was used by the State to lock down the minds and behaviors of those the State could not totally dominate with threat of force alone. During those dark times Kings and Dukes and all manner of ruling nobility relied on the Church to preach absolute surrender and obedience to the State as part of their regular sermons.

Times have changed, religions have lost much of their State sponsored power to enforce and terrorize the masses. Nevertheless, millions and millions of people still freely surrender their spirit and will to the State through Christianity because it says to do so in the bible. Go figure. I suppose humans really aren't much more than cattle one can train to do the same tricks long, long after their master has returned to the dust of the ground. By such reasoning I wonder if people in general can be trained to bounce beach balls on their noses . . .

I like that you mentioned how Christianity was "used" by the State (Unrighteous leaders). Thus, Christianity was being misused, right?. So, how should the Gospel actually be used by individuals and the leaders of the various Churches who claim to follow Jesus Christ? The answer is from the examples Jesus set. He set not by constraint, but by individual decisions one whether to follow Him and His Teachings. That we are all individuals with unalienable rights to decide for ourselves to follow. Anyone attempting to restrict free moral agency to follow Jesus Christ would be guilty as those who used Christianity for their own benefits to control and dominate mankind and their property. Perhaps, even you are guilty of this?

 

[SweetSue92]

FJB

Maybe He should have worded that differently then as I see what you're saying but being Lord AND a friend talking to you like that is a whole lot different than somebody who is just your friend talking to you like that.

Well, as I have said. Jesus is not a "pal". He is the Son of God. He is Holy.

 

[Road Runner]

FJB


Well, as I have said. Jesus is not a "pal". He is the Son of God. He is Holy.

He's the one who said that He calls His followers friends not me. I was only repeating the message. I know He is sinless and holy but that doesn't mean He never made a sinless mistake of wording things in a different way so that we don't understand what He's talking about. Unless the Bible translators made the mistake that is.

 

[notmyfault2020]

On one hand I understand what Jesus is saying when He says that all those that are His friends will obey His commandments, but on the other hand imagine if Jesus wasn't the Son of God and He was just a regular person. I'm not saying that He wasn't human, but imagine that He wasn't the Lord and just somebody else speaking to you like that and then follows it up with He doesn't call us servants but yet still says that we need to obey His orders if we want to be friends with Him. Wouldn't that be a tad bit messed up? If He wasn't the Lord of all creation I don't think I would be interested in a friendship like that.

The rules of Christ make our lives better., at least in the long run.. He loves us far more than we love ourselves and certainly more than any other person in the universe. So why wouldn't we w ant to obey all his Commandments? They're hard? Yes... but they are worth it.. It's like St Augustine s aid

Do not attempt to understand so as to believe but believe in order to understand.

 

[Meriweather]

He's the one who said that He calls His followers friends not me. I was only repeating the message. I know He is sinless and holy but that doesn't mean He never made a sinless mistake of wording things in a different way so that we don't understand what He's talking about. Unless the Bible translators made the mistake that is.

People tell Jesus they wish to follow him. He responds they must do as he commands and they indicate their agreement by following him. He calls them friends.

But one young man declined, because he was very rich and he would have to give all to the poor. Jesus told his followers it is a wise king who counts the cost of war before going into battle; a wise carpenter who counts the cost and materials required to complete the structure before he begins building.

What do we expect to gain from a friendship with Jesus? What will be the cost? Are we prepared to pay the cost and is the resulting friendship worth that cost?

 

[notmyfault2020]

People tell Jesus they wish to follow him. He responds they must do as he commands and they indicate their agreement by following him. He calls them friends.

But one young man declined, because he was very rich and he would have to give all to the poor. Jesus told his followers it is a wise king who counts the cost of war before going into battle; a wise carpenter who counts the cost and materials required to complete the structure before he begins building.

What do we expect to gain from a friendship with Jesus? What will be the cost? Are we prepared to pay the cost and is the resulting friendship worth that cost?

Protestantism is a religion without a Cross, which was one reason Lefebvre and others say it is a false religion. It was one of the reasons Lefebvre defied with all his might Vatican II which taught that all religions can save. that teaching was in total conflict w/ all the teaching of the Catholic Church that came before Vatican II. A person has no other choice.. no other choice whatsoever than to choose btwn the 1960 years that came b4 Vatican II .. or Vatican II. Nothing else is logical or makes any sense

 

[Meriweather]

Protestantism is a religion without a Cross, which was one reason Lefebvre and others say it is a false religion. It was one of the reasons Lefebvre defied with all his might Vatican II which taught that all religions can save. that teaching was in total conflict w/ all the teaching of the Catholic Church that came before Vatican II. A person has no other choice.. no other choice whatsoever than to choose btwn the 1960 years that came b4 Vatican II .. or Vatican II. Nothing else is logical or makes any sense

I feel calling any religion a false religion is out of line. St. Teresa was spot on when she noted that the Church is only the foyer for believers and there are many other levels in what she calls The Interior Castle that we generally are left to explore mostly on our own.

The question for all of us is, Has our religion/church drawn us closer to God? The Catholic faith reaches me, but it does not reach all. Protestant and LDS denominations do nothing for me, it appears a certainty they do something for those of that faith/denomination. It also seems you must have the Catholic Church behave in the pre-Vatican way before it can reach/touch you.

 

[SweetSue92]

He's the one who said that He calls His followers friends not me. I was only repeating the message. I know He is sinless and holy but that doesn't mean He never made a sinless mistake of wording things in a different way so that we don't understand what He's talking about. Unless the Bible translators made the mistake that is.

John 1:1 says, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

Jesus says routinely, "those with ears to hear, let them hear."

I think it's fine if you're struggling with some Bible passages. To blame the Word for not "wording things in a different way" to suit YOU is....wow.