If you oppose the Confederate flag you oppose the American flag too

[Boss]

I don't support the flag flying on public land, but private land I couldn't really care less about. The confederate flag doesn't offend me whatsoever, and I don't think it should be seen as a symbol of racism. However, it is a flag associated with a nation that is NOT the USA, and thus shouldn't fly on public land. It really is that simple.

The 'confederacy' was never a nation.

Well, for 4 years, they were. You can argue they weren't all you like. They had an elected government and had declared independence as a nation. They had a constitution. Other countries do not have to recognize you as a nation for you to be a nation.

What you are espousing is the official Union argument of the time, however... as I told you before, Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation as well as his suspension of habeas corpus, can only be Constitutional if the South is an enemy country at war with the Union. Lincoln himself recognized this and said it was Constitutionally problematic, but he took the action anyway.

Presidents do not have the authority to take your property in violation of the 4th Amendment. This is why... oddly enough, the Emancipation Proclamation did not emancipate slaves held in West Virginia. ...Go look it up!

 

[Unkotare]

I don't support the flag flying on public land, but private land I couldn't really care less about. The confederate flag doesn't offend me whatsoever, and I don't think it should be seen as a symbol of racism. However, it is a flag associated with a nation that is NOT the USA, and thus shouldn't fly on public land. It really is that simple.

The 'confederacy' was never a nation.

You can argue they weren't all you like. ..!

I know I can, because they weren't.

 

[Unkotare]

... oddly enough, the Emancipation Proclamation did not emancipate slaves held in West Virginia. .....!

What's odd about that?

 

[Unkotare]

The issue of slavery was a completely different matter from equality....

Who has claimed otherwise?

 

[Boss]

... oddly enough, the Emancipation Proclamation did not emancipate slaves held in West Virginia. .....!

What's odd about that?

Uhm.... Nothing is odd about it really... that was sarcasm. West Virginia slaves were not emancipated because the President didn't have the Constitutional authority to emancipate slaves owned by United States citizens. (4th Amendment)

The ONLY way Lincoln could Constitutionally emancipate slaves was as Commander in Chief against an enemy of the state in time of war. Otherwise, he did not have the Constitutional authority.

 

[Boss]

The issue of slavery was a completely different matter from equality....

Who has claimed otherwise?

Lots of people try to claim otherwise, asshole... are you not reading the board?

Why don't you try pulling that stupid-looking head out of your ass and stop acting like a total dick wad?

 

[Boss]

I know I can, because they weren't.

yes they were.

 

[Unkotare]

The issue of slavery was a completely different matter from equality....

Who has claimed otherwise?

Lots of people try to claim otherwise...

Who, specifically?

 

[Unkotare]

I know I can, because they weren't.

yes they were.

Their cessation was never legal, and the so-called confederacy was never legitimate. It was not a nation.

 

[Unkotare]

The ONLY way Lincoln could Constitutionally emancipate slaves was as Commander in Chief against an enemy of the state in time of war. Otherwise, he did not have the Constitutional authority.

Wow, where did you come by such esoteric information? Say, did you hear about this thing that happened in 1492?

 

[Boss]

Their cessation was never legal, and the so-called confederacy was never legitimate. It was not a nation.

That's your opinion.

As I said, I understand the opinion and I know the origin. It was the official opinion of the Union and President Lincoln at the time of the war. Lots of people have debated this through the years and I agree... it's an opinion and it has some merit. That doesn't make it a fact.

Again... The Emancipation Proclamation and suspending habeas corpus can't be Constitutional unless the South is an enemy nation at war with the US.

Now... if you just want to be an insufferable prick and mouth off your opinion as fact... go right ahead, knock yourself out!

 

[Unkotare]

Their cessation was never legal, and the so-called confederacy was never legitimate. It was not a nation.

That's your opinion....

It's a fact, no matter how loudly you whine.

 

[Boss]

The ONLY way Lincoln could Constitutionally emancipate slaves was as Commander in Chief against an enemy of the state in time of war. Otherwise, he did not have the Constitutional authority.

Wow, where did you come by such esoteric information? Say, did you hear about this thing that happened in 1492?

It's not esoteric and it has nothing to do with 1492. It's the Constitution and presidential authority under the separation of powers.

As I said, this is why the EP did not apply to slaves in the Union.

 

[Boss]

Their cessation was never legal, and the so-called confederacy was never legitimate. It was not a nation.

That's your opinion....

It's a fact, no matter how loudly you whine.

Nope, it's your opinion and we can volley this back and forth like 4-year olds if that makes you feel better about things. If you could prove this as fact you would have done so. All you can do is continue to insist that you're opinion is a fact and it's just not. End of.

 

[Boss]

The issue of slavery was a completely different matter from equality....

Who has claimed otherwise?

Lots of people try to claim otherwise...

Who, specifically?

I don't keep a log... read the fucking threads. Numerous liberal pinheads are making the argument it was the "Righteous" North vs. the Racist South. If you're not seeing that, you're on a different forum than I.

 

[there4eyeM]

I don't care very much about flags and I do care very much about free speech. Therefore, whatever an individual wants to use to express her/him self is a 'right', as long as it does not prevent another from the same 'right'. I don't like the so-called 'PC' craze, but it really isn't new. Language is a living thing and the meaning of words can change. 'Marriage', for example, to me meant the legal, social union of a man and a woman and I saw no problem with maintaining it that way while also guaranteeing full legal protection to other similar arrangements. Insisting on calling it 'same sex marriage' seemed rather silly, but so what? Why not? If that is what society wants, it isn't important.
Getting freaked out about a flag, or any other word or symbol, is a personal choice, and I sincerely feel there is not enough understanding of that fact of our psychology. We are not educating people sufficiently about what we now know about our brains, our perceptions, our universe. As a result, culture fails to grow out of its dim past.
It is good that the slave-based system of the south was destroyed, inhuman institution that it was. Oppression of people everywhere should be stopped, especially that of women all over the world.

 

[Unkotare]

The ONLY way Lincoln could Constitutionally emancipate slaves was as Commander in Chief against an enemy of the state in time of war. Otherwise, he did not have the Constitutional authority.

Wow, where did you come by such esoteric information? Say, did you hear about this thing that happened in 1492?

It's not esoteric....

Then why do you keep "declaring" common knowledge as if it is some great revelation?

 

[Unkotare]

Their cessation was never legal, and the so-called confederacy was never legitimate. It was not a nation.

That's your opinion....

It's a fact, no matter how loudly you whine.

Nope, it's your opinion ...

Well over 100 years of the Supreme Court says "fuck you" to you.

 

[Unkotare]

The issue of slavery was a completely different matter from equality....

Who has claimed otherwise?

Lots of people try to claim otherwise...

Who, specifically?

I don't keep a log... read the fucking threads. ....

= I was right, you ARE full of shit.

 

[RicO'Shea]

I wish you southern instigators would all move the fuck out of the country you tried to secede from. If you can't allow every citizen the same rights, freedoms and protections you receive then we've got no functional use for your sorry ass in a constitutionally secular society. GTFO

Let's face it. Southerners fought against Northern aggression and for their freedom. They were patriotic Americans sick of seeing their country going the wrong way. That's why people typically fly the Stars and Bars.
But we got over that and healed and the descendents of those Confederates went on to serve the American army and win our wars.
But those who want to censor, who want to denigrate the struggle of our Southern ancestors, who want to demonize others for holding opinions contrary to theirs are no better than jihhadis and communists, who want to ban anything contrary to their religion. They are the hater dupes of the public world.