If you oppose the Confederate flag you oppose the American flag too

[Unkotare]

... in a constitutionally secular society.

A what now?

 

[mgh80]

I don't support the flag flying on public land, but private land I couldn't really care less about. The confederate flag doesn't offend me whatsoever, and I don't think it should be seen as a symbol of racism. However, it is a flag associated with a nation that is NOT the USA, and thus shouldn't fly on public land. It really is that simple.

The 'confederacy' was never a nation.

You can argue they weren't all you like. ..!

I know I can, because they weren't.

By your logic the USA wasn't a nation until 1783--not 1776.

 

[Unkotare]

I don't support the flag flying on public land, but private land I couldn't really care less about. The confederate flag doesn't offend me whatsoever, and I don't think it should be seen as a symbol of racism. However, it is a flag associated with a nation that is NOT the USA, and thus shouldn't fly on public land. It really is that simple.

The 'confederacy' was never a nation.

You can argue they weren't all you like. ..!

I know I can, because they weren't.

By your logic the USA wasn't a nation until 1783--not 1776.

No, that is not a logical conclusion. You really should study logic sometime.

 

[Faun]

"...all men are created equal..."

Yes they are... BUT-- According to SCOTUS rulings prior to the Civil War and Congressional or presidential policies before the Civil War, negro slaves were NOT MEN... they were PROPERTY!

That's the part you conveniently want to ignore and it's part of history. You wish to pretend that a different viewpoint was the official view of the US and it wasn't. I'm sorry about that... I wish that I could honestly say that the US had opposed and fought slavery all those years, but that's not true.

In the conservative south. In the Liberal north, slavery was illegal.

There was no "conservative south" or "liberal north" fuckwit. This is part of your delusional meme and total ignorance of history.

Suuure, uh-huh... ...

 

[Faun]

Here we go again .... prove Lincoln said that ......

I don't need to prove anything to you, jackwagon. You're not proving anything you say/claim/lie about. You're just bowing up and making all sorts of allegations that can't be backed up or supported with ANY source of legitimate history, so fuck off!

I paraphrased Lincoln's reply to a Virginia politician in April 1861 when asked the question. The bottom line is, the United States would have had serious trouble supporting itself without Southern agriculture. Cotton was our #1 export, followed by tobacco and sugar cane. The #4 export was textiles produced with Southern cotton. So how the hell do you figure the US was going to support itself without Southern agriculture?

Again... Like almost EVERY war, the Civil War was about MONEY.

You paraphrased?? You put it in quotes as though he actually said that. And of course you won't prove it. You can't. He never said that. Once again, you were duped.

 

[hangover]

If you oppose the Confederate flag you oppose the American flag too

This thread illustrates the kind of propaganda the cons try to perpetrate on the electorate. "If you're not for bigotry, then you're against America." And cons really expect this country to buy it. Thanks so much for exposing yourself.

I think it demonstrates how hard-headed liberals don't understand history and believe they can shape it to fit their agenda after the fact. YOU are the BIGOTS! You are the ones who bow up and demand the whole fucking nation march to YOUR drumbeat or be hooted down as racists and other deplorable things. We have to all march in lockstep and respect what YOU want us to or disrespect what YOU demand us to... or else, face your wrath. No one can talk to you, you're not reasonable, you have an agenda to push and you're going to keep pushing it.

Your shit don't flush. That's why cons will always be the minority party. The MAJORITY are rational logical people. It's easy for them so see your extremist rants are a serious psychological malfunction. Just keep digging that hole though, you're helping us win.

 

[Faun]

I never said Lincoln fought the war to free the slaves. He fought the war to save the United States from breaking apart.

The south fought the war to keep their slaves.

Wrong. They fought the war to defend their homes from Lincoln. Lincoln invaded the Confederate states, not the other way around.

Too bad for your hallucinations, history does not agree with your delusions. The south started the war when they attacked a federal fort.

I have proven over and over and over that Lincoln started the war. All you can do is stamp your foot and whine about it.

All you have proven is that you're mentally deranged enough that if you take a sentence and cut off the beginning and cut off the ending, you can tailor it to mean something other than what it actually means in toto.

And get this ... while you portray me as the one stamping my feet and whining about it, history recorded the events as I portrayed them -- the south started the was by attacking a federal fort.

You may not like history ... but ... who cares?

Radical northern abolitionist, primarily from New England, helped start the war...but behind the scenes wealthy northern industrialist wanted a tariff and southern agrarian farmers did not. It was all about the $$$$ and the constitutional issue of whether or nor a state could leave the Union.

Sorry, but you don't get to rewrite history. Four of the seceding states wrote why they were seceding. The tariff was not among their reasons. I'm sure you will notice the biggest reason of all...

 

[bripat9643]

Wrong. They fought the war to defend their homes from Lincoln. Lincoln invaded the Confederate states, not the other way around.

Too bad for your hallucinations, history does not agree with your delusions. The south started the war when they attacked a federal fort.

I have proven over and over and over that Lincoln started the war. All you can do is stamp your foot and whine about it.

All you have proven is that you're mentally deranged enough that if you take a sentence and cut off the beginning and cut off the ending, you can tailor it to mean something other than what it actually means in toto.

And get this ... while you portray me as the one stamping my feet and whining about it, history recorded the events as I portrayed them -- the south started the was by attacking a federal fort.

You may not like history ... but ... who cares?

Radical northern abolitionist, primarily from New England, helped start the war...but behind the scenes wealthy northern industrialist wanted a tariff and southern agrarian farmers did not. It was all about the $$$$ and the constitutional issue of whether or nor a state could leave the Union.

Sorry, but you don't get to rewrite history. Four of the seceding states wrote why they were seceding. The tariff was not among their reasons. I'm sure you will notice the biggest reason of all...

Where did these idiotic pie charts come from? Do you actually believed the reasons can be quantified in such a manner? That's like assigning a number to the color orange. The fact that you posted this idiocy only shows what a boob and a gullible ignoramus you are.

 

[Faun]

Too bad for your hallucinations, history does not agree with your delusions. The south started the war when they attacked a federal fort.

I have proven over and over and over that Lincoln started the war. All you can do is stamp your foot and whine about it.

All you have proven is that you're mentally deranged enough that if you take a sentence and cut off the beginning and cut off the ending, you can tailor it to mean something other than what it actually means in toto.

And get this ... while you portray me as the one stamping my feet and whining about it, history recorded the events as I portrayed them -- the south started the was by attacking a federal fort.

You may not like history ... but ... who cares?

Radical northern abolitionist, primarily from New England, helped start the war...but behind the scenes wealthy northern industrialist wanted a tariff and southern agrarian farmers did not. It was all about the $$$$ and the constitutional issue of whether or nor a state could leave the Union.

Sorry, but you don't get to rewrite history. Four of the seceding states wrote why they were seceding. The tariff was not among their reasons. I'm sure you will notice the biggest reason of all...

Where did these idiotic pie charts come from? Do you actually believed the reasons can be quantified in such a manner? That's like assigning a number to the color orange. The fact that you posted this idiocy only shows what a boob and a gullible ignoramus you are.

They represent how much was mentioned by each state in their respective declarations of causes which I linked.

 

[mgh80]

I don't support the flag flying on public land, but private land I couldn't really care less about. The confederate flag doesn't offend me whatsoever, and I don't think it should be seen as a symbol of racism. However, it is a flag associated with a nation that is NOT the USA, and thus shouldn't fly on public land. It really is that simple.

The 'confederacy' was never a nation.

You can argue they weren't all you like. ..!

I know I can, because they weren't.

By your logic the USA wasn't a nation until 1783--not 1776.

No, that is not a logical conclusion. You really should study logic sometime.

Your reasoning for the CSA not being an independent nation is because other nations didn't recognize them (specifically the USA obviously). But yet the UK didn't recognize the USA as being a nation in 1776. How are the situations different at the time (not in the hindsight of the victors of the war)?

 

[Unkotare]

The 'confederacy' was never a nation.

You can argue they weren't all you like. ..!

I know I can, because they weren't.

By your logic the USA wasn't a nation until 1783--not 1776.

No, that is not a logical conclusion. You really should study logic sometime.

Your reasoning for the CSA not being an independent nation is because other nations didn't recognize them (specifically the USA obviously). But yet the UK didn't recognize the USA as being a nation in 1776.

France did in 1778, and it was a turning point in the war.

 

[Faun]

The 'confederacy' was never a nation.

You can argue they weren't all you like. ..!

I know I can, because they weren't.

By your logic the USA wasn't a nation until 1783--not 1776.

No, that is not a logical conclusion. You really should study logic sometime.

Your reasoning for the CSA not being an independent nation is because other nations didn't recognize them (specifically the USA obviously). But yet the UK didn't recognize the USA as being a nation in 1776. How are the situations different at the time (not in the hindsight of the victors of the war)?

When did Palestine become a country?

 

[Jroc]

President Lincoln was too kind to the south he should have let General Sherman continue even after the south was whipped and utterly defeated

"I would make this war as severe as possible, and show no symptoms of tiring till the South begs for mercy."

"My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom."


William Tecumseh Sherman

Coming from a piece of shit moron who makes excuses for Muslim nutjobs and wants dead Christians. Towards the end of the war there were kids defending southern lines. Brothers were fighting brothers. You're the worst kind of scum."with malice toward none" Lincoln was a great man. you are the scum of the earth

 

[Boss]

Their cessation was never legal, and the so-called confederacy was never legitimate. It was not a nation.

That's your opinion....

It's a fact, no matter how loudly you whine.

Nope, it's your opinion ...

Well over 100 years of the Supreme Court says "fuck you" to you.

No it doesn't. There has never been a SCOTUS ruling on the Constitutionality of Confederate secession OR Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation OR suspending habeas corpus. (Not that the SCOTUS is any kind of measure of what is actually Constitutional... remember, THEY are also who ruled slaves were property.) In Texas v. White, which was well after the Civil War, they ruled that Texas had not "legally" seceded from the Union but the also left ambiguous wording to suggest it was possible to secede "through revolution, or through consent of the States." (74 U.S. 700 -1868)

Before the war there was a great Constitutional debate over this, the SCOTUS had never ruled anything and the Constitution didn't clarify it. The ruling in White was Texas didn't have the constitutional right to secede, not that it was unconstitutional to secede. Again, this is the same SCOTUS who ruled Jim Crowe constitutional, ruled corporations are people and the government has the power to define marriage for everyone.

And so it remains a profound Constitutional question that has yet to be answered.

 

[mgh80]

You can argue they weren't all you like. ..!

I know I can, because they weren't.

By your logic the USA wasn't a nation until 1783--not 1776.

No, that is not a logical conclusion. You really should study logic sometime.

Your reasoning for the CSA not being an independent nation is because other nations didn't recognize them (specifically the USA obviously). But yet the UK didn't recognize the USA as being a nation in 1776.

France did in 1778, and it was a turning point in the war.

You're suggesting that the USA wasn't a nation until 1778?

 

[mgh80]

You can argue they weren't all you like. ..!

I know I can, because they weren't.

By your logic the USA wasn't a nation until 1783--not 1776.

No, that is not a logical conclusion. You really should study logic sometime.

Your reasoning for the CSA not being an independent nation is because other nations didn't recognize them (specifically the USA obviously). But yet the UK didn't recognize the USA as being a nation in 1776. How are the situations different at the time (not in the hindsight of the victors of the war)?

When did Palestine become a country?

When did the US?

 

[Unkotare]

I know I can, because they weren't.

By your logic the USA wasn't a nation until 1783--not 1776.

No, that is not a logical conclusion. You really should study logic sometime.

Your reasoning for the CSA not being an independent nation is because other nations didn't recognize them (specifically the USA obviously). But yet the UK didn't recognize the USA as being a nation in 1776.

France did in 1778, and it was a turning point in the war.

You're suggesting that the USA wasn't a nation until 1778?

Do you even know when the American Revolution ended? Have you completed Jr High?

 

[mgh80]

By your logic the USA wasn't a nation until 1783--not 1776.

No, that is not a logical conclusion. You really should study logic sometime.

Your reasoning for the CSA not being an independent nation is because other nations didn't recognize them (specifically the USA obviously). But yet the UK didn't recognize the USA as being a nation in 1776.

France did in 1778, and it was a turning point in the war.

You're suggesting that the USA wasn't a nation until 1778?

Do you even know when the American Revolution ended? Have you completed Jr High?

So the US became a country after the war? That's what your claim is?

PS: If you read my quote I make it clear that the war ended in 1783.

 

[Unkotare]

And so it remains a profound Constitutional question that has yet to be answered.

No, it doesn't. The matter was settled by Texas v. White and no court since has put the matter into question. The Emancipation Proclamation was never in question other than by revisionist halfwits like you.

 

[JFK_USA]

Let's face it. Southerners fought against Northern aggression and for their freedom. They were patriotic Americans sick of seeing their country going the wrong way. .

The wrong way? Yeah, towards abolition.

Well given Rabbi's posting on this board, he does believe giving black people equal rights and statuses as human beings is the wrong way.