Who said Gd is irrelevant? I said the gospels are irrelevant for dedicated Jews.
Zone1 If Jesus Was A Jew
- Thread starter ChristisKing
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You do. I'm not political. Feel free to prove me wrong with actual evidence from my posting record.
So Christians should believe as Jewish people do to not be idolaters?
Sounds suspiciously like evangelization.
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According to Judaism?
If your goal is to make Jewish people look bad, you are doing a wonderful job.
I doubt that guy is Jewish. I don’t even know what he means by worshipping a matzah.
Meriweather
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He's talking about the Catholic Eucharist. He seems to think Catholics don't worship God, that they worship a piece of unleavened bread. What's worse to him, is that Catholic belief/faith is that Christ is present in the Eucharist.
For someone who holds no belief that Jesus is One with God, this is an extremely hard teaching. It was in Jesus' time and it still is today--even among some Christian denominations.
Because of manna sent by God and the bread of the presence in the Ark and later in the Temple, to me it seems odd he can't grasp the teaching of God's presence and care--even for someone who has no belief in Jesus. In any case he loathes the idea and all those who are practicing, believing Catholics.
That would be like a Catholic mocking me as worshipping matzah on Passover: it’s not the product itself but what it represents that we include it in our Seder.
Same for Catholics with the cracker at services. (Just curious: do you have another word other than cracker? I thought Eucharist was the process of taking the cracker, not the cracker itself.) Do you actually call it matzah, as that poster implied?
rosends
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I believe (though I speak with no authority) that it is called a wafer.
Meriweather
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Wafer (as rosends noted) or host.
Jesus said (and taught), "Take this and eat, for this is my Body which will be given for you. Take this, all of you, and drink from it, for this is the chalice of my Blood, the Blood of the new and eternal covenant, which will be poured out for you and for many for the forgiveness of sins."
The communion hosts and wine retain the appearance and taste of bread and wine. Still, Jesus taught and Catholics believe he is present, Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity in the Eucharist. There have been a few miracles where consecrated host has changed to human heart muscle, blood type B.
hobelim is nauseated by this concept, perhaps even more so by the belief we are spiritually nourished by the actual body, blood, soul, and divinity of Jesus Christ, One with God, the Word of God. As a mother who nursed her babies, it may be easier for me. I nourished my babies with my body, with matter from my body, and even so remained autonomous and whole myself. The Old Testament relates God feeding mankind with manna, and His priests with Bread of the Presence. While never agreeing, it seems to me hobelim who seems to have a Jewish background, would have a better understanding of this part of Catholic belief/faith. Instead, he is disgusted by it, which saddens me.
Woodznutz
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You're either intentionally or unintentionally butchering that verse.
First of all, if you're talking about John 18:36, what Jesus actually said was "My kingdom is not of this world" - which obviously is true, but here's where you're getting things all wrong...
Just because Jesus' Kingdom has not yet come (in a physical, literal way) to this earth doesn't mean that we're supposed to throw our hands up in the air and say "It's not time yet for God's Kingdom so I'm going to do whatever the hell I want!"
No. Jesus teaches the exact opposite of that!
Here's an important and pertinent scripture that completely contradicts your world-focused perspective. The bold and underline is mine, because you keep missing it.
Jesus taught us to pray for the following:
"Your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven."- Matthew 6:10
That verse teaches us to have an eternal (as opposed to worldly) perspective. And it means He wants us to manifest God's Kingdom in our lives and in this world. Not put it off til later while living just like this fallen world lives. Did you forget the parable of the Ten Virgins? It clearly teaches being READY for God's Kingdom, as opposed to being unprepared like the foolish virgins in that parable.
I'm not going to go through all your misused, handpicked verses that have nothing to do with the point.
The point of my previous post - that you completely missed - stands. It is not God's perfect will. And it's unnecessary. If it WAS necessary, then you would have a point. But it's not.
And since it's off topic, I'm not going to go round in circles with you again, since as I just mentioned, we have been over this many times before. But I had to reply to your misuse of John 18:36 and your complete opposition to what Jesus taught us in the Lord's prayer - to want God's will to be done and Kingdom to come on earth as it is in Heaven.
Meat eating must be a special problem to you, that you judge others so harshly as if to say 'those who eat meat have total disregard for God and do whatever the hell they want.'You're either intentionally or unintentionally butchering that verse.
First of all, if you're talking about John 18:36, what Jesus actually said was "My kingdom is not of this world" - which obviously is true, but here's where you're getting things all wrong...
Just because Jesus' Kingdom has not yet come (in a physical, literal way) to this earth doesn't mean that we're supposed to throw our hands up in the air and say "It's not time yet for God's Kingdom so I'm going to do whatever the hell I want!"
No. Jesus teaches the exact opposite of that!
Here's an important and pertinent scripture that completely contradicts your world-focused perspective. The bold and underline is mine, because you keep missing it.
Jesus taught us to pray for the following:
"Your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven."- Matthew 6:10
That verse teaches us to have an eternal (as opposed to worldly) perspective. And it means He wants us to manifest God's Kingdom in our lives and in this world. Not put it off til later while living just like this fallen world lives. Did you forget the parable of the Ten Virgins? It clearly teaches being READY for God's Kingdom, as opposed to being unprepared like the foolish virgins in that parable.
I'm not going to go through all your misused, handpicked verses that have nothing to do with the point.
The point of my previous post - that you completely missed - stands. It is not God's perfect will. And it's unnecessary. If it WAS necessary, then you would have a point. But it's not.
And since it's off topic, I'm not going to go round in circles with you again, since as I just mentioned, we have been over this many times before. But I had to reply to your misuse of John 18:36 and your complete opposition to what Jesus taught us in the Lord's prayer - to want God's will to be done and Kingdom to come on earth as it is in Heaven.
World=age of man.
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Woodznutz
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My interest in Charlemagne is Biblical. I believe he was a type, if not the actual, white horse(man) of the apocalypse, as well as the "flood" sent by the dragon to destroy the fledgling church in Europe (Revelation 12).
I didn't invent the notion of "archetype". As soon as a talking serpent was introduced in the fairy tale it was the author using well known and universal tradition of every nation and language to compare other people to lower beasts to teach children lessons to ether praise or insult ever since people could talk.
Thats was me. Pay attention!
Right. And a talking serpent is a classification of what type of animal if not the human sort? What about talking donkeys, bottom feeders, teeming vermin who go down on all fours, vultures etc., These are universal metaphors for human archetypes in the vernacular of every language.
Am I telling you something that you don't already know?
The theme is the described animals represent human archetypes which most people who ever read a fairy tale with talking animals to teach children understand that those animals from angels to demons to every creature in-between accurately depict the heights and depths of human potential.
If a person sins the death consequent, the effect of the cause of sin, cannot be avoided by killing a goat. The entire 'belief' is as irrational as the believing the "sacrificial" murder of Jesus can in a mysterious way pay the price for everyone else sins, as long as they worship a trinity and eat him.
Double derp!
Sure, people can eat their way into righteousness as long as its not a cheeseburger? Are you really trying to sell that crap or are you just embarrassed and being facetious because of guilt?
God also commanded Moses to make a bronze statue for people to turn to for healing during the time of testing in the wilderness which ended up in hundreds of years of peaceful idolatrous prosperity. When Hezekiah was credited for keeping the commands and doing what is right in Gods eyes by destroying the statue then it was never right to turn to it for healing. It seems that God likes to test people who think they can get over on him. Its really sad because it always ends up with thousands of years of hell on earth. Don't make the mistake that monetary prosperity is a blessing especially if the wealth is gained by religious deceit and hoarded by demons and ghouls.
While the laity are abandoned to the carnage the religious elite have created just for them...
There were many years of peace and prosperity under Herod too!. Pax Romana. It was awesome!
The sin was building with your hands a fancy slaughter house to sacrifice farm animals. DUH!
Now you know.
Exactly. So. After thousands of years of failing to understand the teaching of the law you might want to consider the remote possibility that you are doing things the wrong way especially since you can't seem to escape the punishment for sinfulness which includes your blindness to the simple truth Jesus lived and died trying to teach you about kashrut - is about what goes into your mind and out of your mouth that defiles, not what goes into your mouth and out of your ass.
Anyway. As it is written; the light (the law) has come into the world but the darkness has never mastered it even as simple and as easy as it is to stand guard over the sanctity of your own mind
If you are satisfied with always dying the death of sin and never finding peace in death, then by all means, enjoy!
If not, eat my flesh, its pleasing to the eye and good to eat. If you do, your sanity will be restored.
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Woodznutz
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The Celtic Women have lost some weight.
According to Judaism, Islam, Catholicism, and anyone who read the book whatever they believe.
Your Church teaches that idolatry, the worship of the lifeless work of human hands which can neither see, hear, speak, or walk is not the Body of Christ, or God, is a mortal sin under penalty of death, descent into hades the realm of the dead and permanent destruction, if you do not repent
If you don't believe me ask the priest who claimed that you will live forever as long as you defy the law of God and desecrate the teachings of Jesus as if it could be handed out like a cheap snack.
rosends
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that is your choice of interpretation. It isn't inherent to the text, just to your interpretive schema.
exactly my point. Why would your opinion matter?
if you need to find it as a type then whatever you decide will have to work for you.
they are also actual things. Why jump over that and assume they have another value?
well, as you are inventing it, why would you expect that anyone else would know it?
So you mean the theme you read into the text. Since I'm not reading fairy tales, your interpretations are pretty useless.
who said it is?
I don't recall saying that. I guess that's another of your interpretations and archetype thingies.
your fantasy world is impacting your ability to assimilate fact in the real world.
there is substantial and ancient discussion of this. Am I telling you something you didn't already know?
The Copper Snake - How A Miracle Turns into Idolatry | Sefaria
The desert generation’s copper snake made way for a book of medicine as the generations turned to those of the kingship. Rabba Avital Engelberg quotes the Chatam Sofer as to why this transition was so necessary, and why a good leader needs to have a finger on the pulse of the generation. Read it...
www.sefaria.org
That's more of your guess work and fanciful interpretation. You have decided that following God's commandments is sinful. Can't help you with that.
who says anyone fails to understand. Sinning comes from a failure to follow. If one does not understand, then one's sinfulness is mitigated substantially.
No, it isn't. Jesus, if he said anything in this regard, was flat out wrong, at least as it applies to Jews.
that isn't written in any text I consider relevant. Feel free to follow whatever later writings you want. It means nothing to me.
I'll pass on cannibalism, thanks.
Ask Ding. He knows.
He actually fell for the con that you can set aside the law of God, worship a trinity, turn to and eat a piece of unleavened bread a matzo made by human hands for spiritual life and not die as the law clearly states, but you will go to heaven and live forever when you die after being in hell like a schnook for life, the consequence for such a vile and degrading practice made by far even more reprehensible with the celebration of the sacrificial crucifixion of an innocent Jewish man to eat.
Sure:
When these men have undergone, with blamelessness of conduct, a two year preparation in the fundamentals of the community, they shall be segregated as especially sacred among the formal members of the community. Any knowledge which the expositor of the law may posses but which may have to remain arcane to the ordinary layman, he shall not keep hidden from them; for in their case there need be no fear that it might induce apostasy.
No one is to engage in discussion or disputation with men of ill repute; and in the company of froward men everyone is to abstain from talk about (keep hidden) the meaning of the Law.
What you don't seem to get is that your own religious leaders are keeping you in the dark intentionally of they don't know the hidden meaning of the law that I have revealed to you.
Either way they are lying to you.
If you were blind you would not be guilty of sin, but because you say, "We see" your guilt remains
No, I have decided that following God commandments literally is not only sinful but stupid.
Yeah, try to run that crap past someone who knows nothing. You are a very dedicated cannibal.
Be proud!
The flesh and blood of humans, swine that do not ruminate, is dripping from your unclean lips.
In full view of heaven and earth no less! Do you really think you are invisible? Somewhere to hide?
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That would be you. who is here trying to justify animal sacrifice as a way to expiate sin.
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