"If God exists, why doesn't He prove it?"

[daws101]

"If God exists, why doesn't He prove it?"

Suppose God was a high school Physics professor and He did prove it, but we were too busy looking at the blouse of the girl next to us and we did not notice?

.

that all depends on the girl and if god put here there to distract us!

 

[Ringel05]

An all powerful God would chuckle at the thought he would have to prove his existence.

why is that pop?
lot's of people doubt a god exists..if god was a compassionate god he would be more than happy to prove his exsitance..if not, god would be arrogant asshole who thinks he /she /it is above the rules he /she it/ created...

Trying to fit God in your nice little box? Of course you are. Oh and I'm familiar with all the arguments, I used them myself trying to fit God in my own nice little box, it's how I recognize it when others do it........

 

[daws101]

An all powerful God would chuckle at the thought he would have to prove his existence.

why is that pop?
lot's of people doubt a god exists..if god was a compassionate god he would be more than happy to prove his exsitance..if not, god would be arrogant asshole who thinks he /she /it is above the rules he /she it/ created...

Trying to fit God in your nice little box? Of course you are. Oh and I'm familiar with all the arguments, I used them myself trying to fit God in my own nice little box, it's how I recognize it when others do it........

not really, I'm exploring possibilities ....the prevailing attitude is that god, any god, is for no logical reason I can think of is far too smug to to answer a very basic question.
imo not very compassionate god thing to do ...

 

[Ringel05]

why is that pop?
lot's of people doubt a god exists..if god was a compassionate god he would be more than happy to prove his exsitance..if not, god would be arrogant asshole who thinks he /she /it is above the rules he /she it/ created...

Trying to fit God in your nice little box? Of course you are. Oh and I'm familiar with all the arguments, I used them myself trying to fit God in my own nice little box, it's how I recognize it when others do it........

not really, I'm exploring possibilities ....the prevailing attitude is that god, any god, is for no logical reason I can think of is far too smug to to answer a very basic question.
imo not very compassionate god thing to do ...

Uummm, from a purely social science perspective that's called (using the banal vernacular) "fitting something into a neat little box to satisfy one's sense of morality". Otherwise known as perceptual preconditioning, it's a transference of one's preconceived notions and norms in drawing conclusions to observed or cognitive phenomenon/evidence.
Loose the self justifying preconceptions in order to objectively explore the subject.

 

[daws101]

Trying to fit God in your nice little box? Of course you are. Oh and I'm familiar with all the arguments, I used them myself trying to fit God in my own nice little box, it's how I recognize it when others do it........

not really, I'm exploring possibilities ....the prevailing attitude is that god, any god, is for no logical reason I can think of is far too smug to to answer a very basic question.
imo not very compassionate god thing to do ...

Uummm, from a purely social science perspective that's called (using the banal vernacular) "fitting something into a neat little box to satisfy one's sense of morality". Otherwise known as perceptual preconditioning, it's a transference of one's preconceived notions and norms in drawing conclusions to observed or cognitive phenomenon/evidence.
Loose the self justifying preconceptions in order to objectively explore the subject.

didn't think I was justifying..still don't!
but then again, isn't faith in god
perceptual preconditioning?

 

[Avatar4321]

I'm a skeptic and seeker of knowledge of everything, with an insatiable curiosity about the world around me going back to childhood,. I didn't chose my personality traits regardless of whether they are the product of nature or nurture or some combination thereof. I need proof of everything. I fail to understand why any god(s) would create me to be that way, deny me the proof I need, and then punish me for eternity for acting on the way I was built.

Mankind assigns human traits to God or makes the demand. If God exists, and I believe he/she/it does, why assume he needs our acceptance or approval? Religion is not God, it's a belief about God, a theological issue. Humans are the smartest mammals on Earth but that doesn't neccessarily mean the creator of the universe feels obligated to prove anything to anyone.

That aside, proof is in the mind of the beholder. What proof would you accept? A personal appearance and miracle? Why couldn't you say a higher alien species did it? There is no proof that the universe or life is
capable of happening on its' own. So I don't understand those that demand proof of a creator. To me, that would be even more miraculous. It's just a matter of you picking a belief you are comfortable with or saying you don't know.

As I'm trying to get Grump to see, non believers always demand a proof of God but demand no proof to support their belief system that there is no God.
Believers are under no onus to make non-believers believe, it's not in our hands, our onus is to be the best examples we can be.

We are also to invite others to come to God and learn from Him for themselves. It's amazing how few people will actually follow that invitation but instead will claim there is no God and no one can know there is one despite without an ounce of effort to find out if that's true.

 

[Chuckt]

not really, I'm exploring possibilities ....the prevailing attitude is that god, any god, is for no logical reason I can think of is far too smug to to answer a very basic question.
imo not very compassionate god thing to do ...

Uummm, from a purely social science perspective that's called (using the banal vernacular) "fitting something into a neat little box to satisfy one's sense of morality". Otherwise known as perceptual preconditioning, it's a transference of one's preconceived notions and norms in drawing conclusions to observed or cognitive phenomenon/evidence.
Loose the self justifying preconceptions in order to objectively explore the subject.

didn't think I was justifying..still don't!
but then again, isn't faith in god
perceptual preconditioning?

For me it wasn't. I came to the awakening and many awakenings that He exists and didn't want to follow what everyone else was doing to follow Him. How that changed..

 

[Chuckt]

I guess I should have rephrased my initial response so this bears repeating:

Yet lacking any real proof you firmly believe there is no God...... not even slightly skeptical of your belief yet you want proof of the opposite. Again, that's interesting.

We also have Pascal's Wager ... Where the philosopher put mathematics, expectations and reason into the formula considering the consequences of belief in God or Super Dominance.
Although I am certainly no a philosopher ... Pascal measured what could be gained with or without the acceptance of God ... And then the affects of either.

At that point Pascal was more than willing to accept that a "wager" in favor of God could very well be more productive than a "wager" against God.

.

"Suppose we've chosen the wrong god. Every time we go to church we're just making him madder and madder." - Homer Simpson's (Matt Groenig's) version of Pascal's Wager

I didn't know that anyone took The Simpson's seriously.

 

[daws101]

Mankind assigns human traits to God or makes the demand. If God exists, and I believe he/she/it does, why assume he needs our acceptance or approval? Religion is not God, it's a belief about God, a theological issue. Humans are the smartest mammals on Earth but that doesn't neccessarily mean the creator of the universe feels obligated to prove anything to anyone.

That aside, proof is in the mind of the beholder. What proof would you accept? A personal appearance and miracle? Why couldn't you say a higher alien species did it? There is no proof that the universe or life is
capable of happening on its' own. So I don't understand those that demand proof of a creator. To me, that would be even more miraculous. It's just a matter of you picking a belief you are comfortable with or saying you don't know.

As I'm trying to get Grump to see, non believers always demand a proof of God but demand no proof to support their belief system that there is no God.
Believers are under no onus to make non-believers believe, it's not in our hands, our onus is to be the best examples we can be.

We are also to invite others to come to God and learn from Him for themselves. It's amazing how few people will actually follow that invitation but instead will claim there is no God and no one can know there is one despite without an ounce of effort to find out if that's true.

been there done that(put my best effort into it.),despite what you want to believe it did not have the desired effect.

 

[daws101]

Uummm, from a purely social science perspective that's called (using the banal vernacular) "fitting something into a neat little box to satisfy one's sense of morality". Otherwise known as perceptual preconditioning, it's a transference of one's preconceived notions and norms in drawing conclusions to observed or cognitive phenomenon/evidence.
Loose the self justifying preconceptions in order to objectively explore the subject.

didn't think I was justifying..still don't!
but then again, isn't faith in god
perceptual preconditioning?

For me it wasn't. I came to the awakening and many awakenings that He exists and didn't want to follow what everyone else was doing to follow Him. How that changed..

sorry chuck but you and just about everyone else is preconditioned to believe in god. my guess is you were never really a non believer..

 

[daws101]

We also have Pascal's Wager ... Where the philosopher put mathematics, expectations and reason into the formula considering the consequences of belief in God or Super Dominance.
Although I am certainly no a philosopher ... Pascal measured what could be gained with or without the acceptance of God ... And then the affects of either.

At that point Pascal was more than willing to accept that a "wager" in favor of God could very well be more productive than a "wager" against God.

.

"Suppose we've chosen the wrong god. Every time we go to church we're just making him madder and madder." - Homer Simpson's (Matt Groenig's) version of Pascal's Wager

I didn't know that anyone took The Simpson's seriously.

hard as it may seem for you to believe the Simpsons has lots of philosophy in it.

 

[Chuckt]

didn't think I was justifying..still don't!
but then again, isn't faith in god
perceptual preconditioning?

For me it wasn't. I came to the awakening and many awakenings that He exists and didn't want to follow what everyone else was doing to follow Him. How that changed..

sorry chuck but you and just about everyone else is preconditioned to believe in god. my guess is you were never really a non believer..

I didn't want to go to church when I was young. I felt obligated to put money in the offering plate and I didn't have any as a child. They put that big book in front of me and I was scared to debate it because I didn't know anything about it and I thought there would be a test. I didn't want to be controlled. I wanted to live my life and live wild and crazy.

 

[Chuckt]

"Suppose we've chosen the wrong god. Every time we go to church we're just making him madder and madder." - Homer Simpson's (Matt Groenig's) version of Pascal's Wager

I didn't know that anyone took The Simpson's seriously.

hard as it may seem for you to believe the Simpsons has lots of philosophy in it.

Maybe but it is just a comedy.

 

[Ringel05]

not really, I'm exploring possibilities ....the prevailing attitude is that god, any god, is for no logical reason I can think of is far too smug to to answer a very basic question.
imo not very compassionate god thing to do ...

Uummm, from a purely social science perspective that's called (using the banal vernacular) "fitting something into a neat little box to satisfy one's sense of morality". Otherwise known as perceptual preconditioning, it's a transference of one's preconceived notions and norms in drawing conclusions to observed or cognitive phenomenon/evidence.
Loose the self justifying preconceptions in order to objectively explore the subject.

didn't think I was justifying..still don't!
but then again, isn't faith in god
perceptual preconditioning?

To a certain degree it is. Is faith in no God Perceptual preconditioning? In almost every case it is, it's almost always a rejection of previous teachings or an absence of theological teachings. Belief systems are simply that, belief systems, God cannot be proven just as no God cannot be proven. Studies show us that both serve to fill a need, one (faith in God) to help us explain the unexplainable and for some to fill a void. The other (no faith in God) to give credence to some's desire to be master of their own destiny most often a rejection of past teachings.
In a small percentage both are used to justify deviant/antisocial behavior.

 

[daws101]

For me it wasn't. I came to the awakening and many awakenings that He exists and didn't want to follow what everyone else was doing to follow Him. How that changed..

sorry chuck but you and just about everyone else is preconditioned to believe in god. my guess is you were never really a non believer..

I didn't want to go to church when I was young. I felt obligated to put money in the offering plate and I didn't have any as a child. They put that big book in front of me and I was scared to debate it because I didn't know anything about it and I thought there would be a test. I didn't want to be controlled. I wanted to live my life and live wild and crazy.

well did you ...I think not...

 

[daws101]

I didn't know that anyone took The Simpson's seriously.

hard as it may seem for you to believe the Simpsons has lots of philosophy in it.

Maybe but it is just a comedy.

by that reasoning the bible is just a book.

 

[Destroyer2]

Kinda belies your claim, dontcha think?

No.

Considering your statement, which reveals a complete disbelief in any deity, I don't see how your faith in no deity can translate to a desire for faith in a deity. Honestly you have faith with limited circumstantial proof in no deity but require proof positive that a deity exists before you believe.
Pretty interesting.

Russell's teapot...

 

[BlackSand]

hard as it may seem for you to believe the Simpsons has lots of philosophy in it.

True ... But the inside of a Dove milk chocolate wrapper has more reasonable and factually supported philosophy than the Simpsons.

.

 

[Destroyer2]

Kinda belies your claim, dontcha think?

No.

Considering your statement, which reveals a complete disbelief in any deity, I don't see how your faith in no deity can translate to a desire for faith in a deity. Honestly you have faith with limited circumstantial proof in no deity but require proof positive that a deity exists before you believe.
Pretty interesting.

Why shouldn't the theist prove the existence of God? It's literally how everything else works!

No one expects you to disprove fairies, yet they are dismissed.
No one expects you to disprove unicorns, yet they are dismissed.
No one expects you to disprove Russell's teapot, yet it is dismissed.
Yet when it comes to God, lack of disproof seems enough to not dismiss him.

Why is that?

 

[daws101]

Uummm, from a purely social science perspective that's called (using the banal vernacular) "fitting something into a neat little box to satisfy one's sense of morality". Otherwise known as perceptual preconditioning, it's a transference of one's preconceived notions and norms in drawing conclusions to observed or cognitive phenomenon/evidence.
Loose the self justifying preconceptions in order to objectively explore the subject.

didn't think I was justifying..still don't!
but then again, isn't faith in god
perceptual preconditioning?

To a certain degree it is. Is faith in no God Perceptual preconditioning? In almost every case it is, it's almost always a rejection of previous teachings or an absence of theological teachings. Belief systems are simply that, belief systems, God cannot be proven just as no God cannot be proven. Studies show us that both serve to fill a need, one (faith in God) to help us explain the unexplainable and for some to fill a void. The other (no faith in God) to give credence to some's desire to be master of their own destiny most often a rejection of past teachings.
In a small percentage both are used to justify deviant/antisocial behavior.

imo faith in no god is a misnomer ..
faith and no faith are diametrically opposed.
they both can't be faith or they cancel each other out.