I will not Bow!

[P F Tinmore]

LOL What are you talking about ?? They DID win land in a war, and now that land is inside the green line, making it their land Tinmore. How do you not know this????

Territorial
changes Israel keeps area allotted to it by Partition Plan, captures 50% of area allotted to Arab state

1948 Arab?Israeli War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

How does that conflict with what I said?

Stop playing with my head Tinmore. Your lies might work with someone else, but not with me

Surely if Israel acquired any land there would be documents showing a treaty or agreement. Any land won would be defined by definite borders.

I don't see where that has ever happened.

 

[Phoenall]

Yes, a war might start, but there won't be anyone siding with the Israeli State...world polls show that it is the most disliked nation on planet earth.

In any extremely unlikely Ultimate Showdown between Israel and Islam...

The Americans will side with Israel...

The Germans will side with Israel...

The French will side with Israel...

The British will side with Israel...

That will be enough...

We have seen this scene before in its obscured simplicity...The French just voted for a Palestinian State, the English abstained, Can't imagine the Holocaust provider Germans helping, and America today has turned Liberal...In a hundred years Israel will be fighting everyone as it does today...

https://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2012/ga11317.doc.htm
ANNEX


Vote on Status of Palestine at United Nations


The draft resolution on the Status of Palestine at the United Nations (document A/67/L.28) was adopted by a recorded vote of 138 in favour to 9 against, with 41 abstentions, as follows:


In favour: Afghanistan, Algeria, Angola, Antigua and Barbuda, Argentina, Armenia, Austria, Azerbaijan, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Belarus, Belgium, Belize, Benin, Bhutan, Bolivia, Botswana, Brazil, Brunei Darussalam, Burkina Faso, Burundi, Cambodia, Cape Verde, Central African Republic, Chad, Chile, China, Comoros, Congo, Costa Rica, Côte d’Ivoire, Cuba, Cyprus, Democratic People’s Republic of Korea, Denmark, Djibouti, Dominica, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, Egypt, El Salvador, Eritrea, Ethiopia, Finland, France, Gabon, Gambia, Georgia, Ghana, Greece, Grenada, Guinea, Guinea-Bissau, Guyana, Honduras, Iceland, India, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Ireland, Italy, Jamaica, Japan, Jordan, Kazakhstan, Kenya, Kuwait, Kyrgyzstan, Lao People’s Democratic Republic, Lebanon, Lesotho, Libya, Liechtenstein, Luxembourg, Malaysia, Maldives, Mali, Malta, Mauritania, Mauritius, Mexico, Morocco, Mozambique, Myanmar, Namibia, Nepal, New Zealand, Nicaragua, Niger, Nigeria, Norway, Oman, Pakistan, Peru, Philippines, Portugal, Qatar, Russian Federation, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Sao Tome and Principe, Saudi Arabia, Senegal, Serbia, Seychelles, Sierra Leone, Solomon Islands, Somalia, South Africa, South Sudan, Spain, Sri Lanka, Sudan, Suriname, Swaziland, Sweden, Switzerland, Syria, Tajikistan, Thailand, Timor-Leste, Trinidad and Tobago, Tunisia, Turkey, Turkmenistan, Tuvalu, Uganda, United Arab Emirates, United Republic of Tanzania, Uruguay, Uzbekistan, Venezuela, Viet Nam, Yemen, Zambia, Zimbabwe.


Against: Canada, Czech Republic, Israel, Marshall Islands, Micronesia (Federated States of), Nauru, Palau, Panama, United States.


Abstain: Albania, Andorra, Australia, Bahamas, Barbados, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Cameroon, Colombia, Croatia, Democratic Republic of the Congo, Estonia, Fiji, Germany, Guatemala, Haiti, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Malawi, Monaco, Mongolia, Montenegro, Netherlands, Papua New Guinea, Paraguay, Poland, Republic of Korea, Republic of Moldova, Romania, Rwanda, Samoa, San Marino, Singapore, Slovakia, Slovenia, The former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia, Togo, Tonga, United Kingdom, Vanuatu.


Absent: Equatorial Guinea, Kiribati, Liberia, Madagascar, Ukraine.

Did they as I cant find any mention in the minutes that the vote was on accepting Palestine as a state. What you have produced is nothing more than a press release of the UN accepting a delegate to the UN as an observer. It is not acceptance of Palestine as a state.

Now if Palestine wants to be a state it first has to stop all terrorist attacks and unify its own people. Then it needs to sit down and agree a mutually accepted peace and borders with Israel. Then and only then will it be accepted by the world as a sovereign nation

 

[toastman]

How does that conflict with what I said?

Stop playing with my head Tinmore. Your lies might work with someone else, but not with me

Surely if Israel acquired any land there would be documents showing a treaty or agreement. Any land won would be defined by definite borders.

I don't see where that has ever happened.

*yawn* Still peddling the same crap eh??

Israel has internationally recognized borders with Egypt and Jordan.

Israel captured the land land during the 1948 war. This land was NOT UNDER SOVEREIGNTY. Now, this land is inside the GREEN LINE. Land inside the Green Line belongs to Israel.

The whole "there are no documents showing Israel acquiring land" shtick is one of your many made up crap that you never read anywhere.

Let me ask you this, where did you read that Israel needs documents to show they acquired that land in order for the land to be theirs ?? I would really love to know

 

[Phoenall]

There are a little more than a billion Muslims, how can there be a billion "Arabs". Which is a cultural and linguistic distinction only.

The world population of muslims is believed to be in the region of 2.2 billion and growing by 3% a year. This is why they are migrating to the west to relieve the pressure on their own countries. The biggest majority of muslims reside in Arabic areas and is believed to be 1.2 billion.

You may want to check those figures, particularly the Muslims residing in "Arabic areas" number.

2.2 Billion: World?s Muslim Population Doubles | TIME.com


Says the same thing


I stand corrected on the arab population which is nearer to 367 million

 

[toastman]

Once again Tinmore, here you go:

 

[Phoenall]

Two things to consider the settlements have been shown to be built on actual JEWISH OWNED land by peacenow who LIED to racially demonise Israel. What International Law id Israel not complying with, and we need actual words from International law. They are in full compliance with the Geneva Conventions and the right of return, or are you another NAZI JEW HATER that thinks the right of return does not apply to the 1 million Jews forcibly expelled from their land in 1948/1949 ?

There is no evidence that the settlements are built on Jewish private property.

Are you calling for all the Middle East Jews to be allowed to return to their former homes in the Muslim nations? I agree, we should allow that. It will reduce the number of Israelis by maybe 3 million. Your idea is a good one.

You should stop calling everyone you disagree with a "Nazi Jew Hater". It insults true victims of anti-Semitism and survivors & victims of the Holocaust. It makes the label "anti-Semite" look like a mere political tool.

There is no evidence to say they aren't, but the maps I have provided show that it is most likely.

Now we cant force them to go back, which is why the Geneva conventions say that they can elect to be paid for the loss of their homes. This means that Israel stays the same population wise and the Jews are granted safety.

If you post ANTI SEMITIC lies then you will be called an ANTI SEMITE. It does not insult any victims of the holocaust or of anti Semitism as it highlights the methods used by modern day NAZI ANTI SEMITIC JEW HATERS and how they try and talk out of being branded for what they are.

 

[Phoenall]

The Israeli's can execute laws that expel islamists from the country and it will not be illegal. The world will not allow all the rogue states in the M.E. to have nuclear weapons, and will target every Islamic centre with their own. 2 billion people fried in one attack by the wests nuclear arsenal will put the brakes on any intentions of using nuclear weapons. Then there is the simple matter of expelling all muslims from the west as aggressive aliens, those that refuse interned till the end of hostilities in segregated camps. Stopping all trade with the likes of Saudi which relies on food from the west would soon see the islamists back down their holes when the starving millions started dying in the streets.

Remember at the end of the day islam need the west more than the west needs islam

If Israel can do that, than it was ok for the Muslim nations to expel their Jews as they were Zionist agents.

Exactly what do you mean by the term Zionist agents, is this meant in the way a NEO NAZI ANTI SEMITIC JEW HATER would call them such. Or do you mean the accepted definition of Zionism.


For the record the arab hostiles evicted were proven terrorists, the Jews evicted were done because of the disgrace of losing to an inferior force. It was schoolground behaviour by the muslims who had lost face. But the muslim nations by your reckoning should be forced to now take in the refugees and give them homes and a nationality like Israel did with the Jewish refugees. That would be the refugee and right of return sorted in one stroke.

 

[Phoenall]

How so when it was the muslims that have and are dispossessing Jews and Christians of their land, and have done since 630 C.E.

Now the shoe is on the other foot they are bleating about how unfair it is for them to be treated in the same manner as they treated others. In gaza the Christians are being ethnically cleansed because the muslims want only a muslim zone to exist

The Muslims conquered Palestine and took the land as spoils of war. Just as the Israelis did it in 1948.

All's fair in love and war. Except the Muslims weren't bound by the 4th Geneva Conventions in 630 AD but the Israelis were in 1967.

Bit they were in 1949 when they expelled the Jews and murdered over half of them. And if you read the UN charter land can not be gained by force so Israel did not get the land as spoils of war, but by negotiated settlements brokered by the UN who set the armistice lines

 

[Phoenall]

Which will be when hell freezes over. There is no intention of a peace agreement.

It is just a dog and pony show.

And which side is putting all the obstacles in the way of peace, which side is demanding illegal and unworkable pre conditions before they will even agree to meet. A clue it is not Israel which is placing negotiation points on the table as part of the peace talks.

Israel's main preconditions are that the Palestinians surrender and disarm.

It is hard to get that pig to fly.

Even harder to get the islamonazi pre conditions to be taken seriously. Right of return for 3 million people who have never lived on the land and a return to fantasy borders that have never existed.

All the Israelis are asking is for an end to belligerence and terrorism as agreed in the Oslo accords. Is it so hard for the Palestinians to abide by their word for once, and be honourable. And it is not a pre condition it is a minor part of the whole peace talks. As is the right of return for the Jews who lost land in gaza and the west bank.

 

[montelatici]

"Right of return for 3 million people who have never lived on the land"

The European Jews that settled in Palestine had never lived on the land.

 

[Phoenall]

Israel's main preconditions are that the Palestinians surrender and disarm.

It is hard to get that pig to fly.

The Palestinians took part in the wars of 1948, 1967, 1973. They were on the losing side all three times.
The Palestinians launched intifadas and have had many skirmishes with Israel, all resulting in ...well....nothing.

It's time the Palestinians surrender, or they won't get their state. Simple as that

Why? If they surrender, they lose.

They haven't lost yet.

Only two outcomes in war WIN or LOSE Have the Palestinians ever won ?

If they don't wind their necks in the UN will force a peace on them that will not be to their liking. The world is getting sick and tired of the Palestinians antics and will tell them to deal or face world condemnation and sanctions.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Stop playing with my head Tinmore. Your lies might work with someone else, but not with me

Surely if Israel acquired any land there would be documents showing a treaty or agreement. Any land won would be defined by definite borders.

I don't see where that has ever happened.

*yawn* Still peddling the same crap eh??

Israel has internationally recognized borders with Egypt and Jordan.

Israel captured the land land during the 1948 war. This land was NOT UNDER SOVEREIGNTY. Now, this land is inside the GREEN LINE. Land inside the Green Line belongs to Israel.

The whole "there are no documents showing Israel acquiring land" shtick is one of your many made up crap that you never read anywhere.

Let me ask you this, where did you read that Israel needs documents to show they acquired that land in order for the land to be theirs ?? I would really love to know

This land was NOT UNDER SOVEREIGNTY.

If you are implying that this was not Palestinian land then that begs the question:

Why is it that the negotiation between Israel and Palestine over who gets what land is a final status issue. If it is not Palestinian land then why are they involved in that negotiation?

 

[Phoenall]

The Palestinians took part in the wars of 1948, 1967, 1973. They were on the losing side all three times.
The Palestinians launched intifadas and have had many skirmishes with Israel, all resulting in ...well....nothing.

It's time the Palestinians surrender, or they won't get their state. Simple as that

Why? If they surrender, they lose.

They haven't lost yet.

You keep saying the Palestinians didn't lose yet.

What needs to happen in order for the Palestinians to 'lose' ... I really don't understand

What he means is they are still fighting even though they have lost every battle. Now Israel needs to inflict so much damage on them that they cant muster enough strength to burst out of a wet paper bag.

 

[Phoenall]

Why? If they surrender, they lose.

They haven't lost yet.

You keep saying the Palestinians didn't lose yet.

What needs to happen in order for the Palestinians to 'lose' ... I really don't understand

Well, the Palestinians need to surrender. They have not formed a consensus on that.

Israel is claiming victory before the end of the conflict. That is one of the points that I have been making. Israel claims that it has won land in war but they have not won anything yet.

When and were has Israel made that claim, and proof from an unbiased source please.

 

[Victory67]

"Right of return for 3 million people who have never lived on the land"

The European Jews that settled in Palestine had never lived on the land.

I don't mind millions of Jews going to Israel as long as the rights of non-Jews are respected.

The British and the League of Nations must have seen a problem on the horizon when they made Jewish settlement in Palestine and the creation of a Jewish state in Palestine conditional upon the full respect for non-Jewish civil & religious rights in Palestine.

Their concerns have been realized a million times over.

I wonder if the Balfour Declaration, the San Remo Conference, and the Mandate for Palestine would have happened if they could see in the future how Israel treats non-Jews in the West Bank. Probably not. The Jews would today be stuck in Europe, Russia, and the Muslim lands.

 

[Phoenall]

How does that conflict with what I said?

Stop playing with my head Tinmore. Your lies might work with someone else, but not with me

Surely if Israel acquired any land there would be documents showing a treaty or agreement. Any land won would be defined by definite borders.

I don't see where that has ever happened.

Egypt and Jordan for starters, then the UN armistice lines that were agreed as starting points for any future borders agreements.

 

[montelatici]

The Palestinians took part in the wars of 1948, 1967, 1973. They were on the losing side all three times.
The Palestinians launched intifadas and have had many skirmishes with Israel, all resulting in ...well....nothing.

It's time the Palestinians surrender, or they won't get their state. Simple as that

Why? If they surrender, they lose.

They haven't lost yet.

Only two outcomes in war WIN or LOSE Have the Palestinians ever won ?

If they don't wind their necks in the UN will force a peace on them that will not be to their liking. The world is getting sick and tired of the Palestinians antics and will tell them to deal or face world condemnation and sanctions.

Actually, outside of the Americans, the world is getting sick and tired of Israel's tactics designed to make it impossible for the creation of a Palestinian state. Heck, even the U.S. leadership (not the dummies) is beginning to figure it out.

 

[Victory67]

Actually, outside of the Americans, the world is getting sick and tired of Israel's tactics designed to make it impossible for the creation of a Palestinian state. Heck, even the U.S. leadership (not the dummies) is beginning to figure it out.

The world wants a two state solution. Israel and Palestine.

Israel is making this almost impossible to happen.

If the current peace talks fail, the world might aswell just start demanding the one state solution and embargo Israel until they comply.

 

[toastman]

Surely if Israel acquired any land there would be documents showing a treaty or agreement. Any land won would be defined by definite borders.

I don't see where that has ever happened.

*yawn* Still peddling the same crap eh??

Israel has internationally recognized borders with Egypt and Jordan.

Israel captured the land land during the 1948 war. This land was NOT UNDER SOVEREIGNTY. Now, this land is inside the GREEN LINE. Land inside the Green Line belongs to Israel.

The whole "there are no documents showing Israel acquiring land" shtick is one of your many made up crap that you never read anywhere.

Let me ask you this, where did you read that Israel needs documents to show they acquired that land in order for the land to be theirs ?? I would really love to know

This land was NOT UNDER SOVEREIGNTY.

If you are implying that this was not Palestinian land then that begs the question:

Why is it that the negotiation between Israel and Palestine over who gets what land is a final status issue. If it is not Palestinian land then why are they involved in that negotiation?

That land I am talking about i NOT part of the current negotiation. It is land that some Palestinians lived on and possibly owned land on but it was not their TERRITORY. In case you forgot, they REJECTED the partition plan, which would have given them sovereignty over that land (plus more of course).

The negotiations going on now involve the 1967 borders, which would actually give the Palestinians less land then if they had accepted the partition plan.

 

[aris2chat]

And which side is putting all the obstacles in the way of peace,

Since Israel has constructed over 500 of them restricting the movement of Palestinian's in the West Bank and the Pals have constructed none, I'd say the "obstacles" are Israel's.

which side is demanding illegal and unworkable pre conditions before they will even agree to meet. A clue it is not Israel which is placing negotiation points on the table as part of the peace talks.

There's no reason to meet and nothing to negotiate. Israel needs to comply with International Law. That's it! Stop breaking the god-damn law and get the **** off land that isn't yours.

Jordan turned the land over to Israel. Israel has been trying to negotiate with the palestinians to give them a state but the PA make hard line demands instead of negotiating. Palestinians won't even recognize Israel's right to exist as a jewish state, per UN resolution. Israel is supposed to bend over backwards and expose it's own throat to the palestinians but Abbas is not even speaking for a unit government.
Israel is expected to permit hundreds of thousands of more arabs into Israel but palestinians won't permit any jews to live in the west bank and expect a full withdrawal despite an agreement to land exchange which would leave most settlements west of the wall in Israeli hands. Jordan wants the Jordan valley in Israeli hands. For Israel to give up the western wall or jerusalem to the palestinians is not even thinkable.