I will never understand the rightwing's uncompromising trust of Big Business

[gipper]

The right wing controls nothing in this country. Yet many left wingers live in mortal fear of it. They are so easily duped.

What I will never understand is how in the world can leftists put their faith in big government, when all of recorded history tells them big government is dangerous, ineffective, and terribly wasteful.

 

[g5000]

MICA: And one of your big com -- well, one of the big packagers, or the competitor, so to speak, was Fannie Mae, which was deep into this. And you were -- you were dealing in some of the paper, I think, for secondary markets and other securitized mortgage paper, to basically package it and make money off it. Is that right?

FULD: Yes, sir.

MICA: What was Lehman Brothers' exposure to the debt of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and what role did their collapse play in precipitating some of your financial troubles?

FULD: Our --

MICA: It didn't matter or you --

FULD: Our exposure to both Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac was de minimis, sir.



You can see right there a right wing idiot rube trying to perpetuate the "forced to make bad loans" bullshit. All that CRA mythology that is completely bogus.

Mica is a Republican Congressman from Florida who is obviously an avid Fox News viewer. Dick Fuld was the CEO of Lehman Brothers.

Fannie and Freddie were in the same secondary market as Lehman Brothers, competing for market share. The GSEs used to make up 90 percent of the secondary market, but due to deregulation, and the fortuitous timing of some internal scandals at the GSEs, coupled with the invention of newer and more powerful financial deriviatives, Wall Street was able to start edging the GSEs out of the market, and that is when the secondary market began exploding.

GSE market share was less than 50 percent by 2005. That same year, the Bush Administration tried to force their portfolios even smaller, which would have given Wall Street an even bigger market share, but Bush's moves were blocked by Barney Frank and Chris Dodd. Even though the Democrats were the minority party, they were able to block the shrinkage of the GSEs portfolios.

This was a period of extreme competition in the secondary market. Wall Street was making a killing selling financial derivatives, and the fuel for these derivatives was loans. Not just mortages, but any kind of debt. Auto loans, credit cards, HELOCs, student loans, etc.

The demand for these derivative products was astronomical. There was $70 trillion of investor cash out there.

When there is that much cash looking for a place to invest, you just aren't going to find enough low risk borrowers to meet that astronomical demand.

Wall Street makes its money through fees. If they can't connect an investor to a borrower, they lose fees. And so the underwriting laws of the Universe were thrown out the window just so they could keep making their fees. Wall Street lowered borrowing standards in order to feed the derivatives machine. It is as simple as that.

At the beginning of the food chain were the brokers. Those who arranged the loans and then sold them into the secondary market pipeline.

The reason Dick Fuld said his exposure to the GSEs was "de minimus" is because Lehman Brothers bought up a bunch of brokers to ensure their derivative machine would always have a fuel source. This made his company completely independent of the GSEs.

The result of Wall Street lowering its standards of what it wanted from brokers is that any "honest broker" quickly learned that if they tried to stay honest and keep up their high standards, they were going to be run out of business. This is how the attitude of "if we don't do it, someone else will" began in the mortgage broker industry. The demand was so explosive that brokers began hiring bartenders or any johnny-come-lately who walked through their doors. The people arranging your home loans didn't know shit from shinola.

So all the brokers gave in to the demands of the bigger players of the secondary market. Which means the GSEs, who were competing in the same market, were being fed the same trash as the rest of the secondary market.

Their investors didn't want to lose out on the boom any more than a Goldman Sachs investor did.

That alone would have been enough to crash our entire financial system. But Wall Street had to go even further once Wall Street realized the gig was up. Once they realized just how far down the rabbit hole they had gone, they chose not to turn around. Not only did they choose not to turn around, they chose to start ripping the faces off their investors before everything blew up.

Their investors. You. Your 401k, Your health insurance company. Your college's endowment fund. Your city treasurer. EVERYONE. They stole from everyone on the planet.

Your money managers at your 401k and your insurance company and your college endowment fund and in your city treasury think proximity to your money makes them smart. Well, they aren't. They were wooed with box seats and hookers and blow into buying this toxic shit.

Which is why whenever I see someone defending or blowing off Wall Street's crimes, I am amused. The idiot ignorant victim is defending the person who stole from them.

 

[Redfish]

MICA: And one of your big com -- well, one of the big packagers, or the competitor, so to speak, was Fannie Mae, which was deep into this. And you were -- you were dealing in some of the paper, I think, for secondary markets and other securitized mortgage paper, to basically package it and make money off it. Is that right?

FULD: Yes, sir.

MICA: What was Lehman Brothers' exposure to the debt of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and what role did their collapse play in precipitating some of your financial troubles?

FULD: Our --

MICA: It didn't matter or you --

FULD: Our exposure to both Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac was de minimis, sir.



You can see right there a right wing idiot rube trying to perpetuate the "forced to make bad loans" bullshit. All that CRA mythology that is completely bogus.

Mica is a Republican Congressman from Florida who is obviously an avid Fox News viewer. Dick Fuld was the CEO of Lehman Brothers.

Fannie and Freddie were in the same secondary market as Lehman Brothers, competing for market share. The GSEs used to make up 90 percent of the secondary market, but due to deregulation, and the fortuitous timing of some internal scandals at the GSEs, coupled with the invention of newer and more powerful financial deriviatives, Wall Street was able to start edging the GSEs out of the market, and that is when the secondary market began exploding.

GSE market share was less than 50 percent by 2005. That same year, the Bush Administration tried to force their portfolios even smaller, which would have given Wall Street an even bigger market share, but Bush's moves were blocked by Barney Frank and Chris Dodd. Even though the Democrats were the minority party, they were able to block the shrinkage of the GSEs portfolios.

This was a period of extreme competition in the secondary market. Wall Street was making a killing selling financial derivatives, and the fuel for these derivatives was loans. Not just mortages, but any kind of debt. Auto loans, credit cards, HELOCs, student loans, etc.

The demand for these derivative products was astronomical. There was $70 trillion of investor cash out there.

When there is that much cash looking for a place to invest, you just aren't going to find enough low risk borrowers to meet that astronomical demand.

Wall Street makes its money through fees. If they can't connect an investor to a borrower, they lose fees. And so the underwriting laws of the Universe were thrown out the window just so they could keep making their fees. Wall Street lowered borrowing standards in order to feed the derivatives machine. It is as simple as that.

At the beginning of the food chain were the brokers. Those who arranged the loans and then sold them into the secondary market pipeline.

The reason Dick Fuld said his exposure to the GSEs was "de minimus" is because Lehman Brothers bought up a bunch of brokers to ensure their derivative machine would always have a fuel source.

The result of Wall Street lowering its standards of what it wanted from brokers is that any "honest broker" quickly learned that if they tried to stay honest and keep up their high standards, they were going to be run out of business. This is who the attitude of "if we don't do it, someone else will" began.

So all the brokers gave in to the demands of the bigger players of the secondary market. Which means the GSEs, who were competing in the same market, were being fed the same trash as the rest of the secondary market.

Their investors didn't want to lose out on the boom any more than a Goldman Sachs investor did.

That alone would have been enough to crash our entire financial system. But Wall Street had to go even further once Wall Street realized the gig was up. Once they realized just how far down the rabbit hole they had gone, they chose not to turn around. Not only did they choose not to turn around, they chose to start ripping the faces off their investors before everything blew up.

Their investors. You. Your 401k, You health insurance company. Your college's endowment fund. Your city treasurer. EVERYONE. They stole from everyone on the planet.

Which is why whenever I see someone defending or blowing off their crimes, I am amused. The idiot ignorant victim is defending the person who stole from them.

when you copy/paste something you are supposed to identify the source.

 

[whitehall]

Big Business has to operate by rules set up by big government therefore if you don't trust Big Business you are either a low information hypocrite leftie who doesn't have a clue or you don't trust Big Government to enforce the rules they make.

 

[bripat9643]

Rightwingers go on and on about their disdain and lack of trust of the federal government yet these feelings are not shared of Big Business.

Doesn't it bother you that corporate crime prosecution is so low?

Doesn't it bother you that often times their only punishment is paying petty fines?

Doesn't it bother you just how evil Monsanto is? Nothing oppresses farmers like that corporation does.

Anyone care to explain? I trust government over some big corporations any day of the week (yes, I understand many corporations aren't evil).

Ken Lay is dead, Madoff is in jail, GE was fined, Crooked CEOs get their due. Do you trust the IRS? How about CDC? TSA? HHS? DOD? the FED? Fannie and Freddie? the VA?

Corporations are not inherently bad or good. They reflect the goodness or badness of their boards and officers.

Government is not inherently bad or good. It reflects the goodness or badness of the people we elect.

Government is inherently bad. Everything it does is based on force. Saying it depends on the goodness or badness of the people we elect is like saying the goodness of the Mafia depends on the goodness of the dons who murder their way to power.

 

[bripat9643]

I will never understand how the left (who claim they hate big business, corporations and free market enterprise) all enjoy the products, amenities, and the way of life those corporations produce.

Or,

Do they deny they enjoy those things, as they hammer away at their evil key board on the evil computers produced by evil corporations.

The same people mind you, that protest wall street then cheer when this president funnels money into the stock market with ZIRP (Zero Interest Rate Policy) and pays off those people funding his campaigns. Including the richest people in the world like Warren Buffet.

Oh, naaaaah, those guys are truly good people and do nothing for ancillary benefits. Naaaah, it is all evil republicans.

This photo illustrates their hypocrisy better than any other I have found. Look at them. Just, look at them.

You are such a moron. Liberals do not hate the idea of the free market system. How many times must that be explained? Many liberals, like myself, think SOME corporations are corrupt. Why wouldn't they be? They are run by humans after all.

Thank you for illustrating my point by the way.

Actually they do hate the idea of the free market system. How often do you see liberals on here talking about how big bad corporations are making billions in evil profits? How often do you see them treating rich people and CEOs like criminals simply because they have money? When do libs ever have a good thing to say about business?

 

[g5000]

MICA: And one of your big com -- well, one of the big packagers, or the competitor, so to speak, was Fannie Mae, which was deep into this. And you were -- you were dealing in some of the paper, I think, for secondary markets and other securitized mortgage paper, to basically package it and make money off it. Is that right?

FULD: Yes, sir.

MICA: What was Lehman Brothers' exposure to the debt of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and what role did their collapse play in precipitating some of your financial troubles?

FULD: Our --

MICA: It didn't matter or you --

FULD: Our exposure to both Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac was de minimis, sir.



You can see right there a right wing idiot rube trying to perpetuate the "forced to make bad loans" bullshit. All that CRA mythology that is completely bogus.

Mica is a Republican Congressman from Florida who is obviously an avid Fox News viewer. Dick Fuld was the CEO of Lehman Brothers.

Fannie and Freddie were in the same secondary market as Lehman Brothers, competing for market share. The GSEs used to make up 90 percent of the secondary market, but due to deregulation, and the fortuitous timing of some internal scandals at the GSEs, coupled with the invention of newer and more powerful financial deriviatives, Wall Street was able to start edging the GSEs out of the market, and that is when the secondary market began exploding.

GSE market share was less than 50 percent by 2005. That same year, the Bush Administration tried to force their portfolios even smaller, which would have given Wall Street an even bigger market share, but Bush's moves were blocked by Barney Frank and Chris Dodd. Even though the Democrats were the minority party, they were able to block the shrinkage of the GSEs portfolios.

This was a period of extreme competition in the secondary market. Wall Street was making a killing selling financial derivatives, and the fuel for these derivatives was loans. Not just mortages, but any kind of debt. Auto loans, credit cards, HELOCs, student loans, etc.

The demand for these derivative products was astronomical. There was $70 trillion of investor cash out there.

When there is that much cash looking for a place to invest, you just aren't going to find enough low risk borrowers to meet that astronomical demand.

Wall Street makes its money through fees. If they can't connect an investor to a borrower, they lose fees. And so the underwriting laws of the Universe were thrown out the window just so they could keep making their fees. Wall Street lowered borrowing standards in order to feed the derivatives machine. It is as simple as that.

At the beginning of the food chain were the brokers. Those who arranged the loans and then sold them into the secondary market pipeline.

The reason Dick Fuld said his exposure to the GSEs was "de minimus" is because Lehman Brothers bought up a bunch of brokers to ensure their derivative machine would always have a fuel source.

The result of Wall Street lowering its standards of what it wanted from brokers is that any "honest broker" quickly learned that if they tried to stay honest and keep up their high standards, they were going to be run out of business. This is who the attitude of "if we don't do it, someone else will" began.

So all the brokers gave in to the demands of the bigger players of the secondary market. Which means the GSEs, who were competing in the same market, were being fed the same trash as the rest of the secondary market.

Their investors didn't want to lose out on the boom any more than a Goldman Sachs investor did.

That alone would have been enough to crash our entire financial system. But Wall Street had to go even further once Wall Street realized the gig was up. Once they realized just how far down the rabbit hole they had gone, they chose not to turn around. Not only did they choose not to turn around, they chose to start ripping the faces off their investors before everything blew up.

Their investors. You. Your 401k, You health insurance company. Your college's endowment fund. Your city treasurer. EVERYONE. They stole from everyone on the planet.

Which is why whenever I see someone defending or blowing off their crimes, I am amused. The idiot ignorant victim is defending the person who stole from them.

when you copy/paste something you are supposed to identify the source.

Financial Market Regulation Practices Panel 2 Video C-SPAN.org

Around the 29 minute mark.

 

[Redfish]

Rightwingers go on and on about their disdain and lack of trust of the federal government yet these feelings are not shared of Big Business.

Doesn't it bother you that corporate crime prosecution is so low?

Doesn't it bother you that often times their only punishment is paying petty fines?

Doesn't it bother you just how evil Monsanto is? Nothing oppresses farmers like that corporation does.

Anyone care to explain? I trust government over some big corporations any day of the week (yes, I understand many corporations aren't evil).

Ken Lay is dead, Madoff is in jail, GE was fined, Crooked CEOs get their due. Do you trust the IRS? How about CDC? TSA? HHS? DOD? the FED? Fannie and Freddie? the VA?

Corporations are not inherently bad or good. They reflect the goodness or badness of their boards and officers.

Government is not inherently bad or good. It reflects the goodness or badness of the people we elect.

Government is inherently bad. Everything it does is based on force. Saying it depends on the goodness or badness of the people we elect is like saying the goodness of the Mafia depends on the goodness of the dons who murder their way to power.

I usually agree with you. But in this case we differ. The goodness or badness of a government or a corporation is determined by the people leading it. Was Germany bad in the 1930s or was Hitler bad?
Was the USA a good country under Reagan or was Reagan a good leader? Is GE a corrupt corporation under Imelt or is Imelt a corrupt CEO?

 

[bripat9643]

Rightwingers go on and on about their disdain and lack of trust of the federal government yet these feelings are not shared of Big Business.

Doesn't it bother you that corporate crime prosecution is so low?

Doesn't it bother you that often times their only punishment is paying petty fines?

Doesn't it bother you just how evil Monsanto is? Nothing oppresses farmers like that corporation does.

Anyone care to explain? I trust government over some big corporations any day of the week (yes, I understand many corporations aren't evil).

Ken Lay is dead, Madoff is in jail, GE was fined, Crooked CEOs get their due. Do you trust the IRS? How about CDC? TSA? HHS? DOD? the FED? Fannie and Freddie? the VA?

Corporations are not inherently bad or good. They reflect the goodness or badness of their boards and officers.

Government is not inherently bad or good. It reflects the goodness or badness of the people we elect.

I'm not suggesting corporations are inherently bad. I think many of them are however.

You have given anecdotal examples of corporate prosecution. The actual stats say different.

I trust most but not all government agencies. I have a great respect for the TSA. I don't trust the NSA.

question: is doing whatever is legal to maximize shareholder value a good or bad thing?

Some legal practices are immoral. Just because lobbyists succeeded in pulling strings, it doesn't make it right.

That doesn't make it wrong either. However, politicians also do plenty that may be legal but is also immoral.

 

[Redfish]

MICA: And one of your big com -- well, one of the big packagers, or the competitor, so to speak, was Fannie Mae, which was deep into this. And you were -- you were dealing in some of the paper, I think, for secondary markets and other securitized mortgage paper, to basically package it and make money off it. Is that right?

FULD: Yes, sir.

MICA: What was Lehman Brothers' exposure to the debt of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and what role did their collapse play in precipitating some of your financial troubles?

FULD: Our --

MICA: It didn't matter or you --

FULD: Our exposure to both Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac was de minimis, sir.



You can see right there a right wing idiot rube trying to perpetuate the "forced to make bad loans" bullshit. All that CRA mythology that is completely bogus.

Mica is a Republican Congressman from Florida who is obviously an avid Fox News viewer. Dick Fuld was the CEO of Lehman Brothers.

Fannie and Freddie were in the same secondary market as Lehman Brothers, competing for market share. The GSEs used to make up 90 percent of the secondary market, but due to deregulation, and the fortuitous timing of some internal scandals at the GSEs, coupled with the invention of newer and more powerful financial deriviatives, Wall Street was able to start edging the GSEs out of the market, and that is when the secondary market began exploding.

GSE market share was less than 50 percent by 2005. That same year, the Bush Administration tried to force their portfolios even smaller, which would have given Wall Street an even bigger market share, but Bush's moves were blocked by Barney Frank and Chris Dodd. Even though the Democrats were the minority party, they were able to block the shrinkage of the GSEs portfolios.

This was a period of extreme competition in the secondary market. Wall Street was making a killing selling financial derivatives, and the fuel for these derivatives was loans. Not just mortages, but any kind of debt. Auto loans, credit cards, HELOCs, student loans, etc.

The demand for these derivative products was astronomical. There was $70 trillion of investor cash out there.

When there is that much cash looking for a place to invest, you just aren't going to find enough low risk borrowers to meet that astronomical demand.

Wall Street makes its money through fees. If they can't connect an investor to a borrower, they lose fees. And so the underwriting laws of the Universe were thrown out the window just so they could keep making their fees. Wall Street lowered borrowing standards in order to feed the derivatives machine. It is as simple as that.

At the beginning of the food chain were the brokers. Those who arranged the loans and then sold them into the secondary market pipeline.

The reason Dick Fuld said his exposure to the GSEs was "de minimus" is because Lehman Brothers bought up a bunch of brokers to ensure their derivative machine would always have a fuel source.

The result of Wall Street lowering its standards of what it wanted from brokers is that any "honest broker" quickly learned that if they tried to stay honest and keep up their high standards, they were going to be run out of business. This is who the attitude of "if we don't do it, someone else will" began.

So all the brokers gave in to the demands of the bigger players of the secondary market. Which means the GSEs, who were competing in the same market, were being fed the same trash as the rest of the secondary market.

Their investors didn't want to lose out on the boom any more than a Goldman Sachs investor did.

That alone would have been enough to crash our entire financial system. But Wall Street had to go even further once Wall Street realized the gig was up. Once they realized just how far down the rabbit hole they had gone, they chose not to turn around. Not only did they choose not to turn around, they chose to start ripping the faces off their investors before everything blew up.

Their investors. You. Your 401k, You health insurance company. Your college's endowment fund. Your city treasurer. EVERYONE. They stole from everyone on the planet.

Which is why whenever I see someone defending or blowing off their crimes, I am amused. The idiot ignorant victim is defending the person who stole from them.

when you copy/paste something you are supposed to identify the source.

Financial Market Regulation Practices Panel 2 Video C-SPAN.org

Around the 29 minute mark.

Ok , good for you. Now give us the link between the 2008 market crash and Dodd/Frank causing the housing mess.

They are not the same thing. Admit that and lets move on.

 

[paulitician]

Yeah, i will admit that far too many Republicans do seem to worship their Corporate Gods. Most feel they can do no wrong. And they're way too quick to blame American Workers for everything. But what they don't understand, is that their worship of Corporate Giants has led to the demise of many Small Businesses. And it's also hurt American Workers immensely.

The Republican Party has some serious problems to address. It's now being seen by many as the Party of fat, greedy, angry, white guys. Most feel it only represents the wealthy and Corporations. They don't feel it ever stands up for the average working American. The Party needs to address that. Otherwise, it risks losing the American Worker-vote forever. And if that happens, it will become incredibly difficult to win a National Election.

 

[NeoTemplar]

Rightwingers go on and on about their disdain and lack of trust of the federal government yet these feelings are not shared of Big Business.

Doesn't it bother you that corporate crime prosecution is so low?

Doesn't it bother you that often times their only punishment is paying petty fines?

Doesn't it bother you just how evil Monsanto is? Nothing oppresses farmers like that corporation does.

Anyone care to explain? I trust government over some big corporations any day of the week (yes, I understand many corporations aren't evil).

I thought everyone knew that the Big Corporations and the Government were all in Cahoots? As far as I can tell neither Congress nor Big Business can be trusted to do what they say or what they should.

 

[LogikAndReazon]

Just think of how wonderful the lives of progressive neo- communists could be without greedy corporations and the evil one percent... Lol

 

[Little-Acorn]

I will never understand the rightwing's uncompromising trust of Big Business


Another thread that starts by tellinng a lie about the "rightwing" (who is that, anyway? They're certainly not conservatives), and then bashes them for it?

Don't you people have anything relevant to say?

You really need some new material. THis tactic is getting very old.

Oh please. Anytime a liberal criticizes big business you clowns say the usual moronic bullshit "you're a socialist facist pawn of Obama derp derp derp"

TRANSLATION: Since I can't refute what Acorn said, I'm going to tell lies about what he said too, in an effort to get him off the subject about my previous lie about "rightwingers".

 

[Yarddog]

Rightwingers go on and on about their disdain and lack of trust of the federal government yet these feelings are not shared of Big Business.

Doesn't it bother you that corporate crime prosecution is so low?

Doesn't it bother you that often times their only punishment is paying petty fines?

Doesn't it bother you just how evil Monsanto is? Nothing oppresses farmers like that corporation does.

Anyone care to explain? I trust government over some big corporations any day of the week (yes, I understand many corporations aren't evil).

Ken Lay is dead, Madoff is in jail, GE was fined, Crooked CEOs get their due. Do you trust the IRS? How about CDC? TSA? HHS? DOD? the FED? Fannie and Freddie? the VA?

Corporations are not inherently bad or good. They reflect the goodness or badness of their boards and officers.

Government is not inherently bad or good. It reflects the goodness or badness of the people we elect.

Yes, and corporations for the most part I think, tend to exist because they were successful businesses to begin with. People like success. Whats the alternative? Successful businesses and Corporations tend to drive the economy, a lot of people see Government as the opposite effect, their tendency is to slow down economic growth for various reasons. Some of those reasons may be neccesary and others not.

 

[Mac1958]

I will never understand how the left (who claim they hate big business, corporations and free market enterprise) all enjoy the products, amenities, and the way of life those corporations produce.

Or,

Do they deny they enjoy those things, as they hammer away at their evil key board on the evil computers produced by evil corporations.

The same people mind you, that protest wall street then cheer when this president funnels money into the stock market with ZIRP (Zero Interest Rate Policy) and pays off those people funding his campaigns. Including the richest people in the world like Warren Buffet.

Oh, naaaaah, those guys are truly good people and do nothing for ancillary benefits. Naaaah, it is all evil republicans.

This photo illustrates their hypocrisy better than any other I have found. Look at them. Just, look at them.

You are such a moron. Liberals do not hate the idea of the free market system. How many times must that be explained? Many liberals, like myself, think SOME corporations are corrupt. Why wouldn't they be? They are run by humans after all.

Thank you for illustrating my point by the way.

"Many liberals, like myself, think SOME corporations are corrupt. Why wouldn't they be? They are run by humans after all."

So is government.

The difference is that the purpose of a corporation is to maximize shareholder value, while the government perpetrates its corruption under the guise of "helping the people".

Big, big difference there. There is corruption in both places, but two different mandates.

That said, there are simplistic absolutists on both ends of this debate. The key is finding a proper equilibrium, having enough government and not having so much government that it does more harm than good.

.

 

[JoeNormal]

Rightwingers go on and on about their disdain and lack of trust of the federal government yet these feelings are not shared of Big Business.

Doesn't it bother you that corporate crime prosecution is so low?

Doesn't it bother you that often times their only punishment is paying petty fines?

Doesn't it bother you just how evil Monsanto is? Nothing oppresses farmers like that corporation does.

Anyone care to explain? I trust government over some big corporations any day of the week (yes, I understand many corporations aren't evil).

Ken Lay is dead, Madoff is in jail, GE was fined, Crooked CEOs get their due. Do you trust the IRS? How about CDC? TSA? HHS? DOD? the FED? Fannie and Freddie? the VA?

Corporations are not inherently bad or good. They reflect the goodness or badness of their boards and officers.

Government is not inherently bad or good. It reflects the goodness or badness of the people we elect.

I'm not suggesting corporations are inherently bad. I think many of them are however.

You have given anecdotal examples of corporate prosecution. The actual stats say different.

I trust most but not all government agencies. I have a great respect for the TSA. I don't trust the NSA.

question: is doing whatever is legal to maximize shareholder value a good or bad thing?

It leads to all kinds of bad. First, lobbying to make whatever shitty things they want to get away with, legal. Second, externalization of costs such as pollution mitigation and resource depletion. Third, short term planning such as GM continuing to build monster SUVs at a time when gas prices were about to spike. Fourth, the race to the bottom in moving industrial activity to third world countries. Fifth, a corporate environment permeated with fear that if an employee rocks the boat, they'll be outsourced. Sixth, tax avoidance to the point that infrastructure can no longer be maintained.

And these are just a few...

 

[NeoTemplar]

Rightwingers go on and on about their disdain and lack of trust of the federal government yet these feelings are not shared of Big Business.

Doesn't it bother you that corporate crime prosecution is so low?

Doesn't it bother you that often times their only punishment is paying petty fines?

Doesn't it bother you just how evil Monsanto is? Nothing oppresses farmers like that corporation does.

Anyone care to explain? I trust government over some big corporations any day of the week (yes, I understand many corporations aren't evil).

Ken Lay is dead, Madoff is in jail, GE was fined, Crooked CEOs get their due. Do you trust the IRS? How about CDC? TSA? HHS? DOD? the FED? Fannie and Freddie? the VA?

Corporations are not inherently bad or good. They reflect the goodness or badness of their boards and officers.

Government is not inherently bad or good. It reflects the goodness or badness of the people we elect.

Yes, and corporations for the most part I think, tend to exist because they were successful businesses to begin with. People like success. Whats the alternative? Successful businesses and Corporations tend to drive the economy, a lot of people see Government as the opposite effect, their tendency is to slow down economic growth for various reasons. Some of those reasons may be neccesary and others not.

Well I think this resentment has more to do with how severely crimes are punished than anything else, its like you have several children and they all do something wrong and you spank all of your children except your favorite whom you give a slap on the wrist.

 

[bripat9643]

Rightwingers go on and on about their disdain and lack of trust of the federal government yet these feelings are not shared of Big Business.

Doesn't it bother you that corporate crime prosecution is so low?

Doesn't it bother you that often times their only punishment is paying petty fines?

Doesn't it bother you just how evil Monsanto is? Nothing oppresses farmers like that corporation does.

Anyone care to explain? I trust government over some big corporations any day of the week (yes, I understand many corporations aren't evil).

Ken Lay is dead, Madoff is in jail, GE was fined, Crooked CEOs get their due. Do you trust the IRS? How about CDC? TSA? HHS? DOD? the FED? Fannie and Freddie? the VA?

Corporations are not inherently bad or good. They reflect the goodness or badness of their boards and officers.

Government is not inherently bad or good. It reflects the goodness or badness of the people we elect.

Government is inherently bad. Everything it does is based on force. Saying it depends on the goodness or badness of the people we elect is like saying the goodness of the Mafia depends on the goodness of the dons who murder their way to power.

I usually agree with you. But in this case we differ. The goodness or badness of a government or a corporation is determined by the people leading it. Was Germany bad in the 1930s or was Hitler bad?
Was the USA a good country under Reagan or was Reagan a good leader? Is GE a corrupt corporation under Imelt or is Imelt a corrupt CEO?

The government is bad in all cases. Government pursues its goals by pointing guns at people. What you're saying is that one criminal is good and another bad because the first one donates some of the loot to charity.

 

[JoeNormal]

Rightwingers go on and on about their disdain and lack of trust of the federal government yet these feelings are not shared of Big Business.

Doesn't it bother you that corporate crime prosecution is so low?

Doesn't it bother you that often times their only punishment is paying petty fines?

Doesn't it bother you just how evil Monsanto is? Nothing oppresses farmers like that corporation does.

Anyone care to explain? I trust government over some big corporations any day of the week (yes, I understand many corporations aren't evil).

Ken Lay is dead, Madoff is in jail, GE was fined, Crooked CEOs get their due. Do you trust the IRS? How about CDC? TSA? HHS? DOD? the FED? Fannie and Freddie? the VA?

Corporations are not inherently bad or good. They reflect the goodness or badness of their boards and officers.

Government is not inherently bad or good. It reflects the goodness or badness of the people we elect.

Government is inherently bad. Everything it does is based on force. Saying it depends on the goodness or badness of the people we elect is like saying the goodness of the Mafia depends on the goodness of the dons who murder their way to power.

You'd probably force your retired parents to work if you could. Not with a gun of course but by saying 'hey mom and dad, if you want to eat, better get a job'. Ah yes, anarchist generosity.