I didn't vote for long term tariffs.

[Natural Citizen]

....and? What rabbit hole are we not going down? Lol, obviously I completely misunderstood who you were talking about. But I do want to hear this, if you want to elaborate.

I dunno. You'd have to catch me in the mood. I'm not really at the moment, other than to share my thought on it just in passing there, when I read your post about it.

Problem is people wanna debate everything for pages and pages. And it's always some compartmental aspect of a much broader discussion which itself gets ignored and never even realized when everybody is competing to support their own compartmentalized perception of things. And I'm not falling into that trap with you. It's more so just something of interest to me. I'm not trying to change the world anymore. Nor am I interested in changing people's minds any more. Nor do I wanna serve as anyone elses utiity in their endeavor to do so. It's just where I'm at these days.

I'm actually getting ready to jump off here anyway.

A free market, as defined by Adam Smith, is a market free from "rents", as described by Henry George. You are correct, that is not the case currently, not even close. But current actions, and the current administration, are only seeking measures to exacerbate the problem.

While we have a central bank, absolutely necessary in the modern economy, we do not have central planning. That is the definition of Communism, a command economy verses a demand economy. We still have a demand economy.

Deficit financing. It can be a bad thing. But it can also be good, very good. The key factor, the cost of borrowing. If you get a better return on your funds than you pay in interest, well hell, borrow some more. But it is a wicked mistress that can go south in a hurry.

I'm more of Mises guy, Winston.

 

[Edgetho]

Can you name a quality store selling only American made goods? I'm not aware of any....but it could be they are just too expensive for our income level and me and the hubby to know about...?

The blame can be laid at the feet of multiple players. But the majority of the blame has to be placed at the feet of employees.

$20 an hour to work at McDonalds??

The Chinese, and many other places, consider themselves lucky to have a job. They commit their lives to their jobs. They understand that it is their employers that provides them with the money to buy their food, rent or buy their homes, have a family, a wife, children, some nice things every once in a while.

In this Country, we see employers as not just adversaries but as The Enemy. Unfortunately, a lor of that can be blamed on politics.

Back in the day, the early 1900's and before, Companies really did take advantage of working people, child labor, no overtime, few if any safety regards, etc. But that has all changed.

It is silly to keep fighting a battle you have already won. Silly and counterproductive.

Has it changed? In some places in the Country, yes. In others? Not so much.

You can spot them by looking at what places are failing and what places are growing and succeeding.

This is why even American Companies won't build very much (or very often) in the Northeast or the Great Lakes area anymore.

 

[buttercup]

I dunno. You'd have to catch me in the mood. I'm not really at the moment, other than to share my thought on it just in passing there, when I read your post about it.

Problem is people wanna debate everything for pages and pages. And I'm not faling into that trap with you. It's more so just something of interest to me. I'm not trying to change the world anymore. Nor am I interested in changing people's minds any more.

I'm actually getting ready to jump off here anyway.

Sheesh, it's been years since I debated things for pages and pages. I almost never do that here, with the exception of one topic but even that hasn't happened in years, since that topic has already been debated six ways to Sunday.

But I get not wanting to get into all that right now. When you do want to elaborate, I am curious to know what aspect I (and maybe one or two others on this site who talk about technocrats) are not thinking or talking about. Thanks and have a good rest of the day.

 

[Nostra]

I voted for Trump to lower prices. I voted for him not to cause trade wars with other countries. Now we're all going to see price increases.

I hope those willing to endure the economic hardship so we can stick it to other countries can justify to me why this was necessary. Why did we need these tariffs when we could have done something to ease the pain here in America?

Trump is using the big stick of the American market to force these pissant countries like Kanada to stop imposing one way tariffs on the US. The goal is to get all tariffs down to zero.

 

[toobfreak]

I voted for Trump to lower prices.

It is coming. It'll take about a year.

I voted for him not to cause trade wars with other countries. Now we're all going to see price increases.

We were already in a trade war. We were getting taken to the cleaners. Quit your yapping even before the battle gets started.

I hope those willing to endure the economic hardship so we can stick it to other countries can justify to me why this was necessary. Why did we need these tariffs when we could have done something to ease the pain here in America?

Wow. Well, I guess you won't be going to Ukraine anytime soon much less be willing to fight for your country. You're a quiter and a loser even before the battle has begun. Do us a favor and move to Canada.

 

[MagicMike]

Trump is using the big stick of the American market to force these pissant countries like Kanada to stop imposing one way tariffs on the US. The goal is to get all tariffs down to zero.

We'll see how your post here ages.

 

[Natural Citizen]

Sheesh, it's been years since I debated things for pages and pages. I almost never do that here, with the exception of one topic but even that hasn't happened in years, since that topic has already been debated six ways to Sunday.

But I get not wanting to get into all that right now. When you do want to elaborate, I am curious to know what aspect I (and maybe one or two others on this site who talk about technocrats) are not thinking or talking about. Thanks and have a good rest of the day.

It wasn't meant to be a personal jab. Was just generally speaking. I just know that the second I were to say one little thing, I'd be bombarded with links upon links like some useful idiot serving as a utility for other people's endeavor to ''educate'' people as far as their own personal interest and interpretation/understanding goes in it all. I've been around here long enough to know.

And I'm just not doing it. I don't feel like chasing balls around any more.

 

[BULLDOG]

I voted for Trump to lower prices. I voted for him not to cause trade wars with other countries. Now we're all going to see price increases.

I hope those willing to endure the economic hardship so we can stick it to other countries can justify to me why this was necessary. Why did we need these tariffs when we could have done something to ease the pain here in America?

Of course you voted for him to do all of that. He plainly stated that was what he would do at every opportunity. You stupidly voted for him to "stick it to the liberals" instead you ended up sticking it to yourself.

 

[BULLDOG]

It wasn't meant to be a personal jab. Was just generally speaking. I just know that the second I were to say one little thing, I'd be bombarded with links upon links like some useful idiot serving as a utility for other people's endeavor to ''educate'' people as far as their own personal interest and interpretation/understanding goes in it all. I've been around here long enough to know.

And I'm just not doing it. I don't feel like chasing balls around any more.

Got it. Your mind is made up. Facts just confuse you.

 

[buttercup]

It wasn't meant to be a personal jab. I just know that the second I were to say one little thing, I'd be bombarded with links upon links like some useful idiot serving as a utility for other people's endeavor to ''educate'' people as far as their own personal interest and interpretation/understanding goes in it all. I've been around here long enough to know.

And I'm just not doing it.

If you were speaking in general...then yeah, I know what you mean. But come on, I wouldn't bombard you with links upon links. To be clear, I wasn't wanting to get into any debate with anyone, I was just curious to know what you were talking about when you implied some of us are missing the full picture. But whatever, it's ok.

 

[Winston]

I dunno. You'd have to catch me in the mood. I'm not really at the moment, other than to share my thought on it just in passing there, when I read your post about it.

Problem is people wanna debate everything for pages and pages. And it's always some compartmental aspect of a much broader discussion which itself gets ignored and never even realized when everybody is competing to support their own compartmentalized perception of things. And I'm not falling into that trap with you. It's more so just something of interest to me. I'm not trying to change the world anymore. Nor am I interested in changing people's minds any more. Nor do I wanna serve as anyone elses utiity in their endeavor to do so. It's just where I'm at these days.

I'm actually getting ready to jump off here anyway.



I'm more of Mises guy, Winston.

Really?

Trump on Tariffs | Mises Institute

Tariff advocates perpetuate the myth that the state can solve economic problems by imposing artificial barriers.

mises.org

 

[Natural Citizen]

Got it. Your mind is made up. Facts just confuse you.

Actually, I'm more of an observer of current and ongong events these days. You can never really conclude anything in that regard. But you can see what's happening if you pay close enough attention. Too often people take what they surmise as a fact, and even what may in fact be an actual fact and they conclude things in a very compartmental way.

But they're still inside their little box. And they're comfortable there, compartmentalized. And they will defend that little box relentlessly. As if that little box is the whole of the battlefield. It isn't.

 

[Care4all]

Who made you buy chink junk at walmarx?

Our govt/Republicans, promoted trading with China as a means to make the Chinese people more democratic decades ago, which turned out to be b.s.

Canadian goods are not junk. Why higher tariffs on them vs China....?

 

[BULLDOG]

Actually, I'm more of an observer of current and ongong events these days. You can never really conclude anything in that regard. But you can see what's happening if you pay close enough attention. Too often people take what they surmise as a fact, and even what may in fact be an actual fact and they conclude things.

But they're still inside their little box. And they're comfortable there, compartmentalized. And they will defend that little box relentlessly. As if that little box is the whole of the battlefield. It isn't.

Got it. That's why you don't bother to read links. The info there might be different than what's in your box.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Wow. Well, I guess you won't be going to Ukraine anytime soon much less be willing to fight for your country. You're a quiter and a loser even before the battle has begun. Do us a favor and move to Canada.

Why would I want to go to Ukraine? What makes you assume I care about Ukraine?

I have an elderly grandmother to feed on a fixed income, these lower prices need to come sooner rather than later. I can't go a whole year with prices as they are now, or even higher, depending on how long the tariffs last.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Of course you voted for him to do all of that. He plainly stated that was what he would do at every opportunity. You stupidly voted for him to "stick it to the liberals" instead you ended up sticking it to yourself.

Surprisingly enough, I get lectures from leftists here who most likely wouldn't have cared if Biden/Kamala had done the same thing...

 

[Care4all]

Uh......it's what governments did to our businesses.

Works for George Soros, doesn't it? Can you please show us Soros donating directly to a Biden or Obama PAC, $250,000,000 million in one election cycle plus the free Twitter exposure given by Musk?

$250 million in one election cycle directly to a Trump PAC.....SHOW SOROS doing anything like that in one election cycle
You are a hypocrite, to the nth degree!

 

[Natural Citizen]

Got it. That's why you don't bother to read links. The info there might be different than what's in your box.

Just offer your own perspective. Share your own thoughts. Show us all how smart you are. It's not too much to ask. That's how functional dialogue should work.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Oh is that all? We could support America by not endangering our trade relationships with our allies.

It is about a sense of fairness.
Looooooong time now Americans buy foreign products - while they shun ours.
We never had tariffs on theirs - they did to us. And others place add'l taxes on our products on top of tariffs - all clearly to discourage their citizens from buying our products.
Trump says "okay, well this has went on long enough".
And it has went on too long. Along with sooooo many other arenas where America pays for everything, but is expected to take on a submissive role.
yeah - fuck that.

 

[BlackSand]

We don't have free market capitalism.

We have central economic planning by a central bank.

We have a belief in deficit finance.

We have economic interventionism.

We have inflationism as a result.

We have a welfare state.

There's a lack of understanding of proper definitions and understanding of what kinds of policies we actually have.

We're so far removed from free-market capitalism that it is laughable to even call it that.

And we have government to thank for that.





You mean the crony capitalists?

Government, in its curent state, picks and choose which top dogs do and do not benefit from tariffs.

This is where the word ''temporary'' goes out the window. Especially ehe nit comes to government measures.

.

You really need to go to a third world country to run into some free-market capitalism ...
But I don't really think they are ready for that discussion either ...

.​