Zone1 I am prepared to call Protestantism a cult

[cnm]

What was funny?

Your knowledge of the price of everything and the value of nothing.*


*Tip o' the hat to Oscar

 

[ninja007]

Point 7:30.. I didn't know that protestant pastor believed in once saved always saved..

Probably a lot of them do. it makes ZERO sense. Sin destroys your connection to God, esp mortal sin like adultery, fornication, masturbation, abortion............ mutilating your gender..

I'll bet 80% or more of the American population commits one or more of the above on a regular basis

A SIN IS A SIN. No mention of mortal sins- manmade rcc invention. ALL sin seperates us from God.

 

[zaangalewa]

Your knowledge of the price of everything and the value of nothing.*


*Tip o' the hat to Oscar

And what means this exactly now, black market peddlar? Example?

 

[zaangalewa]

A SIN IS A SIN. No mention of mortal sins- manmade rcc invention. ALL sin seperates us from God.

Tautology. Sin means to be seperated from god. That's the same. The process of seperation starts before sins start. One god, one truth, one church. Anything else shows that Christians are sinful - for example because they are not able to communicate with each other and to find out what's really true. How is anyone able to believe in any Christian as long as Christians are not able to communicate with each other and to find out in this peaceful way what's true, wrong or not decideable?

This whole discussion here is somehow a sin - but we have to do this because otherwise we will never be able to find out what's wrong.

 

[zaangalewa]

norwegen

There's several ways to read zechariah 14:2-4...

The split of the Mount of Olives could be the division of Jews who went into exile and those who stayed behind.

There's also There is a possible allusion to the commandment of God to His people in Zechariah 14:5 to “flee by the Valley of My mountains” in the Mount Olivet Discourse in Matthew 24.

Remember....all this could be first century history..I was never, ever taught the mount of Olives actually split in two.

“Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.”

And I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem for battle: The city will be taken, houses will be plundered, women raped; half the city will go into exile, but the rest of the people will not be removed from the city.
3
Then the LORD will go forth and fight against those nations, fighting as on a day of battle.

Do you know what you like to say with this text?

-----
It shall come to pass in the latter days that the mountain of the house of the Lord shall be established as the highest of the mountains, and it shall be lifted up above the hills; and peoples shall flow to it, and many nations shall come, and say: “Come, let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob, that he may teach us his ways and that we may walk in his paths.” For out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem. He shall judge between many peoples, and shall decide disputes for strong nations far away; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks; nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war anymore
-----

-----

 

[Meriweather]

How the Popes felt through history toward the Jews is no secret. Otherwise, there would be no need to revisit their relationship with the Jews a mere 60 years ago. It is because of their dislike for the Jews that they do embrace replacement theology.

It is correct that the old covenant was never revoked, if you are referring to the promises God and Abraham made together. And they never will be.

I am truly mystified by your determination to show Catholicism in the worst light possible. Your own faith seems based solely on tearing down Catholicism. Is there nothing to share about your own faith outside the fact it is not the Catholic faith.

First, the history between Catholics and Jews--all through the ages--has been a complicated morass of cooperation and conflict. You may as well decry Jesus, himself, for his animus towards Jews in his lifetime. That's what happens when one refuses to look at the entire story, but insists on focusing on an incident here and an incident there. Look at how you dismiss decades of work between Catholics and Jews, and ignore older incidents of friendship and cooperation in centuries past. It's almost as if you wish to sow discontent between the two faiths!

Why the need for deceit and slander? Why the need to ignore what is written in the Catechism of the Catholic Church and other Church documents? Why the need to hate the Catholic faith to the point of all this scandal mongering?

The point is, one-twelfth of the Jesus' Apostles were shameful. That is just over eight percent. So yes, down through the ages the Church cannot expect to do any better. There has always been, and probably will be eight percent who will equal the shame of Judas. Then, there was Paul who was in favor of killing early Christians and Peter who denied Christ. So even the Church's greatest Apostles had times of failure--as will the Church. The problem is, you never come up out of the mud. You never do the research. And at times you dwell in downright lies. Is your own Church so weak its only recourse is to try to attack what is greater? It has nothing good to say about itself? The best it can come up with is, "Well, at least we're not Catholic/Orthodox?"

 

[Meriweather]

And if someone spends money on reason to avoid some time in purgatory - why should god not hear this prayer and help this souls? For sure the people who gave money had helped our church and all Christendom.

I get that Tetzel's heart was in the right place, and that he envisioned the good the Cathedral could do. It was his theology that was off track. Jesus warned money has a way of putting one off track. What is truly sad and disheartening is that Tetzel's dream of a Cathedral to promote goodness throughout the land instead became a part of what splintered Christ's church/congregation into many factions. It is a cautioning tale to all.

Spending/donating money is not necessarily a change of heart. Recall Jesus' observations of people donating money to the Temple. He saw a major difference between those who gave from their plenty and the poor widow who gave all that she had, despite her own real need. Worldly reparation to bring about good instead of a past behavior that brought harm is a fine thing if it is done from all the heart has. It's best done through acts, not a donation from plenty.

 

[zaangalewa]

I get that Tetzel's heart was in the right place, and that he envisioned the good the Cathedral could do. It was his theology that was off track. Jesus warned money has a way of putting one off track. What is truly sad and disheartening is that Tetzel's dream of a Cathedral to promote goodness throughout the land instead became a part of what splintered Christ's church/congregation into many factions. It is a cautioning tale to all.

Spending/donating money is not necessarily a change of heart.

Spending money is for sure no lip service. Exactly on this reason Martin Luther was angry about. On the other side: Later he will become the most rich inhabitant of Wittenberg.

Recall Jesus' observations of people donating money to the Temple. He saw a major difference between those who gave from their plenty and the poor widow who gave all that she had, despite her own real need.

A poor widow was not interesting. The rich moneybags were. To own a letter of indulgence was a question of prestige. A poor widow not needed prestige but money on her own. Better to say she needed help. In those days money was a luxury good. Much more than 90% of all people lived in farms and produced what they needed. Bartering was still normal.

Worldly reparation to bring about good instead of a past behavior that brought harm is a fine thing if it is done from all the heart has. It's best done through acts, not a donation from plenty.

Hmm ... The famers for example fought in those days for more independence and freedom. They saw their hope in Luther and his new theology. But Luther was on the side of the nobels. So the Holy Empire broke into parts. For about a hundred years Catholics and Protestants had been able to keep balance - then came the 30 years war and a minimum of 1/4th up to 2/3rd of all Germans had been murdered in this war. World War 2 was a sunday afternoon walk compared with this unbelievable cruel international war on German soil. A wonder that still today exist Christians - whether they are Catholics or Protestants. No one has any reason to be proud because of this brutal collaps of culture and civilisation.

 

[Meriweather]

No, I'm not Catholic. I grew up in a little town that was primarily Catholic, and I can honestly say that I love each one of my Catholic friends, and will forever.

You love your family despite the fact they persecutes Jews, throw out Old Testament Covenants, etc...

 

[Meriweather]

The famers for example fought in those days for more independence and freedom. They saw their hope in Luther and his new theology.

In that regard, I tend to feel sorry for Martin Luther. In my opinion (of course) those in the political faction (early enlightenment) seemed to view Luther as a useful idiot to their political cause.

 

[The Irish Ram]

You love your family despite the fact they persecutes Jews, throw out Old Testament Covenants, etc...

Love them, think their religion is a mess. Same way I feel about the posters here.

 

[Meriweather]

Love them, think their religion is a mess. Same way I feel about the posters here.

So you are testifying that your Catholic family persecutes Jews and throws out the Old Testament. Lovely, but then I suppose it is vital that someone point out the eight percent who follow in the ways of Judas are made up, even when they are family members.

You know nothing of the Catholic faith; you get both the Catechism and well known facts wrong. Not to mention, at times, the Bible.

 

[hadit]

How Many Serious Sins Do Protestants Think A “True Believer” Can Commit?

endtimes.video

This video says it all as to what I and other Traditional Catholics believe (know)

The bottom line remains, YOU DON'T DECIDE, that's God's job and you don't get to tell Him to whom He extends grace and who He sends away from Him. In fact, you are treading on very dangerous ground when you do this, so stop it. You do not want to stand before God and have Him show you all the Protestants loving and praising Him for eternity while you protest that they should be thrown out.

 

[hadit]

Point 4.25 is probably one of the most interesting parts of the video but it's all pretty interesting (unless you believe in osas, in which case you'll likely get massively ticked off.. )

Galatians 5:19

"Those who do such things will not inherit eternal life"

or is that the one that says If you want to get to Heaven, keep the commandments.

Well, both are in the Bible.. Remember, that's the book Protestants are supposed to believe in..

Okay, then, some questions:

How many good works are enough to outweigh the wickedness in your heart?
When can you tell God that He can't judge you anymore because in your mind you've done so much good?
How many times can you break the Commandments before God says, "Enough"? We know which two are the most important, is your thread REALLY in obedience to them?
How many good works does it take before you can say you're holier than a sinner newly forgiven by Christ? After all, he's not had time to do all the good things you've done, right?
How often do you stop and realize that Jesus raised the bar FAR above mere actions and straight into attitudes? IOW, you don't have to actually kill someone to be guilty of murder, you don't have to actually have sex with someone you're not married to in order to be guilty of adultery, etc.

Be careful answering these and think.

 

[hadit]

You should probably understand what it is you don't like about someone b4 spouting off malice

not too Christian

Be very careful before you start throwing mud. It could very easily be said that your thread title is not too Christian and is in fact divisive and injurious to the Body of Christ. I would not want to face God with that hanging over my head. Again, be very careful here, it is dangerous ground.

 

[hadit]

All of them repented and never went back to their sin.

That is not true. You can read their own accounts of their lives if you think falsely.

once saved always saved folks go back to their sin and stay there.

No, they do not. They simply believe that God's mercy AS PROMISED in His word is greater than all sin, and rest in His assurance that they will not make a mistake so bad that He will not forgive them.

and expect to get to Heaven. Where's that in the Bible?

It's not, just as it's not in the Bible that non-Catholic denominations are false.

Here's what Jesus said

SIN
No
More

Yes, He did, to one woman who doubtless felt He was going to condemn her just like the works-obsessed religious leaders of her day, just waiting for an excuse to condemn someone for stepping out of their narrow lines (sound familiar?).

 

[hadit]

Start with an example. So often, those who are not Catholic/Orthodox are content with being minimalists, keeping God and his works, his presence at a distance. God has this way of breaking through...

I have a question for you regarding this issue of praying to the dead. You say you ask the dead, especially Mary, to pray with you. Do you also ask Jesus to pray with and for you? He is our intercessor, correct, and it is in His name that we are to pray, also correct?

 

[hadit]

Don't you know that if it weren't for the Catholic Church, there's be no protestant "churches" so called? The CC is the Original founded by Christ.

You might want to take that up with the Orthodox Church. I do believe they would dispute that with you.

All the others (anyone who knows history will see) were founded AFTER the 16th century, starting with the "Father of Prostestantism" Martin Luther, an excommunicated heretic. Few people here know Church history. That's why they stay in the fake Christian religion Protestantism.

Again, not the Orthodox Church that can trace its origins back to the Apostles, or do you somehow think the Apostles who began the Asian and African Churches were undercover Catholics?

 

[Meriweather]

Be very careful before you start throwing mud. It could very easily be said that your thread title is not too Christian and is in fact divisive and injurious to the Body of Christ. I would not want to face God with that hanging over my head. Again, be very careful here, it is dangerous ground.

I believe it was in his letter to the Romans, Paul noted that God's law/way is written on the hearts of all. He noted that non-believers would be judged by their own hearts.

On Pentecost, the Holy Spirit descended on Church, and has been present since. My belief is that Jesus, through the Holy Spirit, reaches all at the place where they are. Remember how Jesus went out to people. Meddling with the churches, faith, beliefs of others, is meddling with the Holy Spirit, spitting on the Spirit's work.

Telling others what is wrong with them/their faith/their religion means a loss of opportunity to share how faith has worked/is working in one's own life.

We should all be able to note the ways God and his Holy Spirit is working in different faiths, different religions, different churches. This is his world, and he does make his presence known to those who have eyes that are not blind.

 

[Meriweather]

I have a question for you regarding this issue of praying to the dead. You say you ask the dead, especially Mary, to pray with you. Do you also ask Jesus to pray with and for you? He is our intercessor, correct, and it is in His name that we are to pray, also correct?

First, remember I have "Mommy Issues" so, I ask those I know (both in this life and those who have passed on) to pray with me. There have been amazing results both for them, and for me.

Jesus is who we pray to, who we focus on, in our prayers. If you mean, do I often pray to Jesus as an individual, the answer is all the time. The rosary is great for meditating on the Bible, great at directing and maintaining focus.