How Much Should A Teacher Get Paid?

[Wicked Jester]

And should there be a cap on how much that can get paid?

How much is a teacher worth in your opinion?

I really can't call it, but they should be paid more than those politicians who are trying to take away their collective bargaining rights. They do more for children and the American people than politicians. Teachers don't just teach any more, they're surrogate parents, counselors, and a host of other things, so even do the jobs that parents are supposed to be doing at home.

More liberal bullshit, from our resident RACIST liberal.

Seriously, just run along, poser!

 

[Flaylo]

And should there be a cap on how much that can get paid?

How much is a teacher worth in your opinion?

I really can't call it, but they should be paid more than those politicians who are trying to take away their collective bargaining rights. They do more for children and the American people than politicians. Teachers don't just teach any more, they're surrogate parents, counselors, and a host of other things, so even do the jobs that parents are supposed to be doing at home.

More liberal bullshit, from our resident RACIST liberal.

Seriously, just run along, poser!

More liberal bullshit? Hey fuck you bud, I can back up that what I said is true and what the fuck is calling me a racist supposed to do, make people think my points are flawed? I went to school in the Philadelphia Public School system and I saw what teachers face day in and day out, they're not exactly enjoying life and they earn every penny that they make. Take your whiny bullshit to your Repug dipshits.

 

[Leweman]

And should there be a cap on how much that can get paid?

How much is a teacher worth in your opinion?

I really can't call it, but they should be paid more than those politicians who are trying to take away their collective bargaining rights. They do more for children and the American people than politicians. Teachers don't just teach any more, they're surrogate parents, counselors, and a host of other things, so even do the jobs that parents are supposed to be doing at home.

So youre admitting teachers don't even teach anymore? Also I agree they should be payed more than politicians as they DO more than politicians for children absolutely.

 

[Flaylo]

And should there be a cap on how much that can get paid?

How much is a teacher worth in your opinion?

I really can't call it, but they should be paid more than those politicians who are trying to take away their collective bargaining rights. They do more for children and the American people than politicians. Teachers don't just teach any more, they're surrogate parents, counselors, and a host of other things, so even do the jobs that parents are supposed to be doing at home.

So youre admitting teachers don't even teach anymore? Also I agree they should be payed more than politicians as they DO more than politicians for children absolutely.

I said they do more than just teach and some of them should have self defense classes because at least in Philadelphia its not uncommon for some teachers to get physically assaulted.

 

[Wicked Jester]

I really can't call it, but they should be paid more than those politicians who are trying to take away their collective bargaining rights. They do more for children and the American people than politicians. Teachers don't just teach any more, they're surrogate parents, counselors, and a host of other things, so even do the jobs that parents are supposed to be doing at home.

More liberal bullshit, from our resident RACIST liberal.

Seriously, just run along, poser!

More liberal bullshit? Hey fuck you bud, I can back up that what I said is true and what the fuck is calling me a racist supposed to do, make people think my points are flawed? I went to school in the Philadelphia Public School system and I saw what teachers face day in and day out, they're not exactly enjoying life and they earn every penny that they make. Take your whiny bullshit to your Repug dipshits.

I'm not your "bud", you racist pissant poser.

I don't give a fuck where you went to school, you phoney bastard.......I hate fuckin' posers!

You give all of us who ACTUALLY served a bad name......Racist POSER!

 

[Leweman]

Should be allowed to have guns.

 

[Momanohedhunter]

I really can't call it, but they should be paid more than those politicians who are trying to take away their collective bargaining rights. They do more for children and the American people than politicians. Teachers don't just teach any more, they're surrogate parents, counselors, and a host of other things, so even do the jobs that parents are supposed to be doing at home.

More liberal bullshit, from our resident RACIST liberal.

Seriously, just run along, poser!

More liberal bullshit? Hey fuck you bud, I can back up that what I said is true and what the fuck is calling me a racist supposed to do, make people think my points are flawed? I went to school in the Philadelphia Public School system and I saw what teachers face day in and day out, they're not exactly enjoying life and they earn every penny that they make. Take your whiny bullshit to your Repug dipshits.

That explains everything.

 

[Flaylo]

Should be allowed to have guns.

I didn't say all of that shit, I said that whatever salaries they're getting they are earning every last penny of it. If they have a low student fail rate and get paid very well with benefits, they deserve it because they work hard for it. The ones who don't care and come in only to collect a pay check need to go but those aren't the majority. Why are teachers suddenly a punching bag for the far right, Koch brothers brainwashing?

 

[Leweman]

So teachers deserve to get paid whatever because YOU think they earn it no matter how well the children are performing?

 

[WorldWatcher]

I'm going to break you idiots of using blogs as your sources if it kills me.

According to the College Board, as cited in USA Today, only about 6% of graduating students in Wisconsin even take the SAT, which skews their state's overall ranking. This is why the College Board advises against ranking states by score, since the more students who take the test in a state, the lower the score is.

Minnesota Office of Higher Education (a cabinet-level state agency) is not a "blog".


Which is why you look at both of the major college exams, the SAT and ACT.


Do you have something to show that the numbers provided are wrong for the Minnesota Office of Higher Education for the ACT scores or the "Best and Worst" site in reference to the SAT?


>>>>

You had TWO sources cited there, bucko, so don't come over all outraged defending one and ignoring the other which DOES meet the criteria of my criticism.

I'm not acting outraged Ma'am.

Yet you made no such distiction and attempted to classify (or at least imply) that both sources were "blogs". They were not.

And while we're at it, don't pretend that you can just say, "Okay, fuck the SAT, look at the ACT" without ever acknowledging that your assertion about the SAT was so much horseshit from every angle.

Please don't project reactions to me that I haven't had.

I provided BOTH major college admission exam's and funny thing is that the results are consistent between both (i.e. a very high ranking).

You deal with the criticism already on the table before trying to move the discussion to something else.

There aren't really any criticisms to deal with. Each source I cited listed specific numbers as to aggregate exam scores for each reported state. You have presented no indication that those scores were wrong.

Do you have any counter evidence so show both those numbers and rankings are incorrect?



>>>>

 

[Cecilie1200]

And should there be a cap on how much that can get paid?

How much is a teacher worth in your opinion?

I really can't call it, but they should be paid more than those politicians who are trying to take away their collective bargaining rights. They do more for children and the American people than politicians. Teachers don't just teach any more, they're surrogate parents, counselors, and a host of other things, so even do the jobs that parents are supposed to be doing at home.

Yet another cluebird who has no fucking idea how salaries are determined.

 

[Flaylo]

So teachers deserve to get paid whatever because YOU think they earn it no matter how well the children are performing?

Man you're fucking dumb as shit, look at my post again and see where I implied such a thing.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Minnesota Office of Higher Education (a cabinet-level state agency) is not a "blog".


Which is why you look at both of the major college exams, the SAT and ACT.


Do you have something to show that the numbers provided are wrong for the Minnesota Office of Higher Education for the ACT scores or the "Best and Worst" site in reference to the SAT?


>>>>

You had TWO sources cited there, bucko, so don't come over all outraged defending one and ignoring the other which DOES meet the criteria of my criticism.

I'm not acting outraged Ma'am.

Yet you made no such distiction and attempted to classify (or at least imply) that both sources were "blogs". They were not.

I did nothing of the sort. I said I was going to break people of using blogs as sources. Period. I never said BOTH your sources were blogs. It is, however, quite true that you made no effort to address that fact, choosing instead to merely discuss the other one.

And while we're at it, don't pretend that you can just say, "Okay, fuck the SAT, look at the ACT" without ever acknowledging that your assertion about the SAT was so much horseshit from every angle.

Please don't project reactions to me that I haven't had.

I provided BOTH major college admission exam's and funny thing is that the results are consistent between both (i.e. a very high ranking).

I projected nothing. Your response utterly blew off the first source to focus on the second, because it was the one that didn't come from a blog.

And frankly, I don't give a rat's ass what "ranking" you want to claim, considering that, as I said, the College Board recommends NOT trying to rank states based on raw scores, because there are too many important factors left out of that equation.

So if YOU want to sit back all fat, dumb, and happy because someone told you Wisconsin "ranked high" on test scores, knock yourself out. Myself, I'm not really interested in being gulled into complacency by people with agendas.

You deal with the criticism already on the table before trying to move the discussion to something else.

There aren't really any criticisms to deal with. Each source I cited listed specific numbers as to aggregate exam scores for each reported state. You have presented no indication that those scores were wrong.

Do you have any counter evidence so show those numbers and rankings are incorrect?



>>>>

Oh, really? That whole post, you didn't hear any criticisms? Or is it just that you've airily decided that the criticisms are of no merit because they don't fit in with what you've decided to believe?

Do NOT doggedly re-cite your sources at me when your goddamned sources are what's being refuted in the first place. And DO NOT DARE to ask me if I have counter-evidence when the post you're allegedly responding to CONTAINED the counter-evidence. If you can't be bothered to read anything that contradicts your worldview, what the HELL are you doing on a political message board?

I will give you one more chance to act like an intelligent adult who wants to be informed, rather than a blindered idealogue hack, and that's only because I'm feeling generous.

As I said, the College Board recommends NOT ranking states according to raw SAT scores, because those numbers alone give a skewed picture. The more students who take the SAT, the lower the states average score will be. Again according to the College Board, only 6% of Wisconsin's graduating students even take the SAT, so bragging that a tiny fraction of graduating seniors do well on the SAT doesn't actually make the teachers there look good. What happened to the rest of the students?

Furthermore, the ACT itself - which is a much more reliable and useful resource than the Education Department of another state entirely - tells us something very different. The ACT measures English, Math, Reading, and Science for college readiness. Of the graduating students who took the ACT in Wisconsin, only 31% met the College Readiness Benchmark in all four subjects. In the respective areas, 75% met the English benchmark, 53% the Math benchmark, 60% the reading benchmark, and 38% the Science. For the record, only 69% of the graduating students took the ACT, which is at least a lot better than the SAT. However, assuming this is an average representation of preparedness and education in the other 31% of graduating students - and we certainly can't assume that at all in reality - I see a state whose students are woefully under-prepared for an increasingly technological world. How about you?

2010 ACT National and State Scores: Average Scores by State

 

[Flaylo]

And should there be a cap on how much that can get paid?

How much is a teacher worth in your opinion?

I really can't call it, but they should be paid more than those politicians who are trying to take away their collective bargaining rights. They do more for children and the American people than politicians. Teachers don't just teach any more, they're surrogate parents, counselors, and a host of other things, so even do the jobs that parents are supposed to be doing at home.

Yet another cluebird who has no fucking idea how salaries are determined.

Dipshit please, I made a general statement, but since when did rightwing pundits and the Koch Brothers become fucking experts at determining teachers salaries? Try reading every God damn thing I said instead of looking for petty shit to bitch about. I never claimed myself to be an expert at determining teacher's salaries, are you saying that you are with all your bitching against public unions?

 

[Screaming Eagle]

~$30k/yr.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I really can't call it, but they should be paid more than those politicians who are trying to take away their collective bargaining rights. They do more for children and the American people than politicians. Teachers don't just teach any more, they're surrogate parents, counselors, and a host of other things, so even do the jobs that parents are supposed to be doing at home.

Yet another cluebird who has no fucking idea how salaries are determined.

Dipshit please, I made a general statement, but since when did rightwing pundits and the Koch Brothers become fucking experts at determining teachers salaries? Try reading every God damn thing I said instead of looking for petty shit to bitch about. I never claimed myself to be an expert at determining teacher's salaries, are you saying that you are with all your bitching against public unions?

Fuckwit, please. Any time you start blathering about "do more" or anything on the subject of "They're SO IMPORTANT!" you're betraying that you know nothing about how salaries are determined.

Of course, in YOUR case, any time you're talking, it can just be assumed that you have no clue.

Go ahead, Mensa Boy. Tell us what factors go into determining a salary. Not just teachers' salaries. ALL salaries, because despite your leftist fantasies otherwise, teachers are really no different than any other working stiff.

 

[WorldWatcher]

Do NOT doggedly re-cite your sources at me when your goddamned sources are what's being refuted in the first place.

Here you go...

Wisconsin Students Rank #2 in composite SAT Scores (Link)***

And

Wisconsin Students Rank #3 in ACT Composite Scores (Link).


*** DISCLAIMER: The College Board recommends not placing a heavy weight on States with a low percentage of students taking the SAT of which Wisconsin is on. Most high school students take the ACT.​

I did add the disclaimer for my notes. Thank you.

And DO NOT DARE to ask me if I have counter-evidence when the post you're allegedly responding to CONTAINED the counter-evidence.

Please show where the scores in either post were wrong, that you have not done.

If you can't be bothered to read anything that contradicts your worldview, what the HELL are you doing on a political message board?

I don't have any problem reading something that contradicts "my worldview". That is how I learn and modify my worldview to reflect reality.


Some posters were broadbrush referring to public sector employees as "freeloaders" and "parasites" and providing an 8th grade reading assessment as the end all of proof that Wisconsin was loaded with poor teachers. However the SAT and ACT scores show that, in regards to motivated students (those likely to attend college) Wisonsin teachers (along with the students) produced some of the highest college pre-exams in the country.

I will give you one more chance to act like an intelligent adult who wants to be informed, rather than a blindered idealogue hack, and that's only because I'm feeling generous.

Not blinded, not a hack, and not an ideologue. Also not normally rude and abusive, but if that's your style you have my permission to run with it. (Of course I'm assuming some consistency here since you feel free to dictate "one more chance" to an anonymous internet poster that you have no problems seeking their permission in return for your actions.)

As I said, the College Board recommends NOT ranking states according to raw SAT scores, because those numbers alone give a skewed picture. The more students who take the SAT, the lower the states average score will be. Again according to the College Board, only 6% of Wisconsin's graduating students even take the SAT, so bragging that a tiny fraction of graduating seniors do well on the SAT doesn't actually make the teachers there look good. What happened to the rest of the students?

Yep got it and thought it would be a good idea to add that disclaimer. Thanks.

Furthermore, the ACT itself - which is a much more reliable and useful resource than the Education Department of another state entirely - tells us something very different. The ACT measures English, Math, Reading, and Science for college readiness. Of the graduating students who took the ACT in Wisconsin, only 31% met the College Readiness Benchmark in all four subjects. In the respective areas, 75% met the English benchmark, 53% the Math benchmark, 60% the reading benchmark, and 38% the Science. For the record, only 69% of the graduating students took the ACT, which is at least a lot better than the SAT. However, assuming this is an average representation of preparedness and education in the other 31% of graduating students - and we certainly can't assume that at all in reality - I see a state whose students are woefully under-prepared for an increasingly technological world. How about you?

I pretty much agree with your analysis, however the preparation for college wasn't the point. The point was to provide a counter to the 8th grade reading report and to show that compared to 47 other states Wisconsin was doing a better job. Logic says if they were doing a worse job then they would rank lower than those doing better, true?

2010 ACT National and State Scores: Average Scores by State

Thanks for the extra link, I've added it to my notes and will include it in future references.

From your link...

National ACT Average Composite = 20.9
Wisconsin ACT Average Composite = 22.2

The point not being that any education system doesn't have room for improvement - it does, the point being that Wisconsin appears to be doing better than most.


>>>>

 

[Momanohedhunter]

Do NOT doggedly re-cite your sources at me when your goddamned sources are what's being refuted in the first place.

Here you go...

Wisconsin Students Rank #2 in composite SAT Scores (Link)***

And

Wisconsin Students Rank #3 in ACT Composite Scores (Link).


*** DISCLAIMER: The College Board recommends not placing a heavy weight on States with a low percentage of students taking the SAT of which Wisconsin is on. Most high school students take the ACT.​

I did add the disclaimer for my notes. Thank you.

And DO NOT DARE to ask me if I have counter-evidence when the post you're allegedly responding to CONTAINED the counter-evidence.

Please show where the scores in either post were wrong, that you have not done.





I don't have any problem reading something that contradicts "my worldview". That is how I learn and modify my worldview to reflect reality.


Some posters were broadbrush referring to public sector employees as "freeloaders" and "parasites" and providing an 8th grade reading assessment as the end all of proof that Wisconsin was loaded with poor teachers. However the SAT and ACT scores show that, in regards to motivated students (those likely to attend college) Wisonsin teachers (along with the students) produced some of the highest college pre-exams in the country.



Not blinded, not a hack, and not an ideologue. Also not normally rude and abusive, but if that's your style you have my permission to run with it. (Of course I'm assuming some consistency here since you feel free to dictate "one more chance" to an anonymous internet poster that you have no problems seeking their permission in return for your actions.



Yep got it and thought it would be a good idea to add that disclaimer. Thanks.

Furthermore, the ACT itself - which is a much more reliable and useful resource than the Education Department of another state entirely - tells us something very different. The ACT measures English, Math, Reading, and Science for college readiness. Of the graduating students who took the ACT in Wisconsin, only 31% met the College Readiness Benchmark in all four subjects. In the respective areas, 75% met the English benchmark, 53% the Math benchmark, 60% the reading benchmark, and 38% the Science. For the record, only 69% of the graduating students took the ACT, which is at least a lot better than the SAT. However, assuming this is an average representation of preparedness and education in the other 31% of graduating students - and we certainly can't assume that at all in reality - I see a state whose students are woefully under-prepared for an increasingly technological world. How about you?

I pretty much agree with your analysis, however the preparation for college wasn't the point. The point was to provide a counter to the 8th grade reading report and to show that compared to 47 other states Wisconsin was doing a better job. Logic says if they were doing a worse job then they would rank lower than those doing better, true?

2010 ACT National and State Scores: Average Scores by State

Thanks for the extra link, I've added it to my notes and will include it in future references.

From your link...

National ACT Average Composite = 20.9
Wisconsin ACT Average Composite = 22.2

The point not being that any education system doesn't have room for improvement - it does, the point being that Wisconsin appears to be doing better than most.


>>>>

They only had 3% particapation. Look up the rankings. And 2/3 cant read. I posted the link before.

 

[WorldWatcher]

They only had 3% particapation. Look up the rankings.

Actually if you check the previous links you will find the SAT participation was 6% (which as Cecilie has pointed out can result in a higher score because of fewer students), however Wisconsin students primarily take the ACT with a participation rate of 69%. So a large percentage of students are taking the ACT and Wisconsin is ranking very high in the nation.

And 2/3 cant read. I posted the link before.

1. I know, I read it. I agree there is room for improvement, however, you are not stating what is says correctly.

2. I would kindly suggest you read what you posted, it didn't say that 2/3 can't read. It said...

"In the National Assessment of Educational Progress tests administered by the U.S. Department of Education in 2009—the latest year available—only 32 percent of Wisconsin public-school eighth graders earned a “proficient” rating while another 2 percent earned an “advanced” rating. The other 66 percent of Wisconsin public-school eighth graders earned ratings below “proficient,”..."

Two-Thirds of Wisconsin Public-School 8th Graders Can​

Not being "proficient" and "can't read" are two different things. Now should 100% be able to read at the "advanced" level, yes sir I agree they should

When you look at the actual National Assessment of Educational Progress Web Site and look at the results (State Profiles.net) you see the following...

I highlighted the last row which shows the 8th Grade reading test. It shows that 78% read at the basic level, 34% read at the proficient level, and 2% read at the advanced level. Here is the level descriptions for 8th grade (NAEP - Reading Achievement Levels by Grade)...

Basic - Eighth-grade students performing at the Basic level should be able to locate information; identify statements of main idea, theme, or author's purpose; and make simple inferences from texts. They should be able to interpret the meaning of a word as it is used in the text. Students performing at this level should also be able to state judgments and give some support about content and presentation of content.

Proficient - Eighth-grade students performing at the Proficient level should be able to provide relevant information and summarize main ideas and themes. They should be able to make and support inferences about a text, connect parts of a text, and analyze text features. Students performing at this level should also be able to fully substantiate judgments about content and presentation of content.

Advanced - Eighth-grade students performing at the Advanced level should be able to make connections within and across texts and to explain causal relations. They should be able to evaluate and justify the strength of supporting evidence and the quality of an author's presentation. Students performing at the Advanced level also should be able to manage the processing demands of analysis and evaluation by stating, explaining, and justifying.​

So if you think that your article says that 2/3 of 8th graders can't read, you are are not reading it correctly. Your article says that 22% of students perform at below the basic level. Students performing at the basic level or above can read.

And actually, the source of the article (the NAEP) shows that 78% of Wisconsin 8th graders can read, performing at the basic level or above. So the two sources are in agreement.


>>>>

 

[Wicked Jester]

They only had 3% particapation. Look up the rankings.

Actually if you check the previous links you will find the SAT participation was 6% (which as Cecilie has pointed out can result in a higher score because of fewer students), however Wisconsin students primarily take the ACT with a participation rate of 69%. So a large percentage of students are taking the ACT and Wisconsin is ranking very high in the nation.

And 2/3 cant read. I posted the link before.

1. I know, I read it. I agree there is room for improvement, however, you are not stating what is says correctly.

2. I would kindly suggest you read what you posted, it didn't say that 2/3 can't read. It said...

"In the National Assessment of Educational Progress tests administered by the U.S. Department of Education in 2009—the latest year available—only 32 percent of Wisconsin public-school eighth graders earned a “proficient” rating while another 2 percent earned an “advanced” rating. The other 66 percent of Wisconsin public-school eighth graders earned ratings below “proficient,”..."

Two-Thirds of Wisconsin Public-School 8th Graders Can​

Not being "proficient" and "can't read" are two different things. Now should 100% be able to read at the "advanced" level, yes sir I agree they should

When you look at the actual National Assessment of Educational Progress Web Site and look at the results (State Profiles.net) you see the following...

I highlighted the last row which shows the 8th Grade reading test. It shows that 78% read at the basic level, 34% read at the proficient level, and 2% read at the advanced level. Here is the level descriptions for 8th grade (NAEP - Reading Achievement Levels by Grade)...

Basic - Eighth-grade students performing at the Basic level should be able to locate information; identify statements of main idea, theme, or author's purpose; and make simple inferences from texts. They should be able to interpret the meaning of a word as it is used in the text. Students performing at this level should also be able to state judgments and give some support about content and presentation of content.

Proficient - Eighth-grade students performing at the Proficient level should be able to provide relevant information and summarize main ideas and themes. They should be able to make and support inferences about a text, connect parts of a text, and analyze text features. Students performing at this level should also be able to fully substantiate judgments about content and presentation of content.

Advanced - Eighth-grade students performing at the Advanced level should be able to make connections within and across texts and to explain causal relations. They should be able to evaluate and justify the strength of supporting evidence and the quality of an author's presentation. Students performing at the Advanced level also should be able to manage the processing demands of analysis and evaluation by stating, explaining, and justifying.​

So if you think that your article says that 2/3 of 8th graders can't read, you are are not reading it correctly. Your article says that 22% of students perform at below the basic level. Students performing at the basic level or above can read.

And actually, the source of the article (the NAEP) shows that 78% of Wisconsin 8th graders can read, performing at the basic level or above. So the two sources are in agreement.


>>>>

So, regardless of all that, which all can be considered suspect, those teachers in Wisconsin are pulling in between 45-75 G's a year on average, with benefits that are well above the private sector............Are you trying to say they are underpaid?