How do you "just know?"

[ABikerSailor]

The Bible itself does its best.

Its best isn't nearly good enough. The problem with the Bible is that it is written in human languages.

Actually, the Torah as written in it's original Hebrew comes as close as any document existing on earth. Why? Because it has not been changed for over 3,000 years and is still true to it's original form.

Besides.........if you look at the dietary requirements laid out for the Jewish people, you'd see that it makes actual sense as they didn't have advanced food storage means such as refrigeration, and only basic cooking abilities.

I mean, just to name one or two, you are told not to eat pork (no way to stop trichinosis), and meat that was cooked was not to be kept over 2 days.

And that's just for starters. If the Torah wasn't given by a divine being, then why do the rules make so much sense, even today?

 

[syrenn]

The Bible itself does its best.

Its best isn't nearly good enough. The problem with the Bible is that it is written in human languages.

Actually, the Torah as written in it's original Hebrew comes as close as any document existing on earth. Why? Because it has not been changed for over 3,000 years and is still true to it's original form.

Besides.........if you look at the dietary requirements laid out for the Jewish people, you'd see that it makes actual sense as they didn't have advanced food storage means such as refrigeration, and only basic cooking abilities.

I mean, just to name one or two, you are told not to eat pork (no way to stop trichinosis), and meat that was cooked was not to be kept over 2 days.

And that's just for starters. If the Torah wasn't given by a divine being, then why do the rules make so much sense, even today?

As for the food.... trial and error.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Its best isn't nearly good enough. The problem with the Bible is that it is written in human languages.

Actually, the Torah as written in it's original Hebrew comes as close as any document existing on earth. Why? Because it has not been changed for over 3,000 years and is still true to it's original form.

Besides.........if you look at the dietary requirements laid out for the Jewish people, you'd see that it makes actual sense as they didn't have advanced food storage means such as refrigeration, and only basic cooking abilities.

I mean, just to name one or two, you are told not to eat pork (no way to stop trichinosis), and meat that was cooked was not to be kept over 2 days.

And that's just for starters. If the Torah wasn't given by a divine being, then why do the rules make so much sense, even today?

As for the food.... trial and error.

Somehow........I find that hard to believe about the trial and error. Trichinosis can only be detected and killed with modern equipment.

 

[syrenn]

Actually, the Torah as written in it's original Hebrew comes as close as any document existing on earth. Why? Because it has not been changed for over 3,000 years and is still true to it's original form.

Besides.........if you look at the dietary requirements laid out for the Jewish people, you'd see that it makes actual sense as they didn't have advanced food storage means such as refrigeration, and only basic cooking abilities.

I mean, just to name one or two, you are told not to eat pork (no way to stop trichinosis), and meat that was cooked was not to be kept over 2 days.

And that's just for starters. If the Torah wasn't given by a divine being, then why do the rules make so much sense, even today?

As for the food.... trial and error.

Somehow........I find that hard to believe about the trial and error. Trichinosis can only be detected and killed with modern equipment.

you get enough people dying after eating pork.... ya make a law that says not eating pork.

You have people getting sick after eating meat after two days old..... same thing.... you get a law about eating older then two day old meat.

 

[Mr Natural]

As for the food.... trial and error.

Somehow........I find that hard to believe about the trial and error. Trichinosis can only be detected and killed with modern equipment.

you get enough people dying after eating pork.... ya make a law that says not eating pork.

You have people getting sick after eating meat after two days old..... same thing.... you get a law about eating older then two day old meat.

Sounds like they had a bunch of busybody Liberals writing the Bible.

Much like today with the smoking and the trans fats.

 

[ilia25]

If the Torah wasn't given by a divine being, then why do the rules make so much sense, even today?

Because on the basic level the human morals are the same, as they have been 10000 years ago -- "treat the other people the same way you want them treating you".

Plus humans are genetically wired -- by the evolution -- to be social species, so they often enjoy doing good unto others.

 

[peach174]

If the Torah wasn't given by a divine being, then why do the rules make so much sense, even today?

Because on the basic level the human morals are the same, as they have been 10000 years ago -- "treat the other people the same way you want them treating you".

Plus humans are genetically wired -- by the evolution -- to be social species, so they often enjoy doing good unto others.

What?
They did no such thing.
10,000 years ago they were waring with each other.
If you and your group had a good place that had plenty of game and good climate you deafened that area to the death.
Some kept the peace by trading.
Those were not morals. It's called survival.

 

[ilia25]

If the Torah wasn't given by a divine being, then why do the rules make so much sense, even today?

Because on the basic level the human morals are the same, as they have been 10000 years ago -- "treat the other people the same way you want them treating you".

Plus humans are genetically wired -- by the evolution -- to be social species, so they often enjoy doing good unto others.

What?
They did no such thing.
10,000 years ago they were waring with each other.
If you and your group had a good place that had plenty of game and good climate you deafened that area to the death.
Some kept the peace by trading.
Those were not morals. It's called survival.

Exactly -- wars were not necessarily immoral 10000 years ago, neither they are today. Sometimes it is immoral not to take up the arms.

 

[GWV5903]

Not a trick question - I'm being sincere. Me and the guy who hooked up my Verizon Fios were talking about this.

I was telling him that I'm just agnostic - I don't believe everything came from nothing but at the same time I'm not at all Religious.

He began to get into the Forgiveness thing.

I was like - well, I do my best (and even when noone's looking) to be a good person.....but if I continue down that path and can never get over the mental block of not having "faith," then I guess I'm doomed eh?

But the mental block won't ever go away. I know this because I know myself. I'd have to see some sort of miracle, and be able to somehow attribute that miracle to a Religion or whatever. I don't see this happening. How do you "just know?"

For me, "you don't."

I'm sure it's different for others.

"How do you prove you love someone"?

Easy. All you have to think of is how you would feel if they were suddenly gone from your life.

If the answer is "utter despair", then you love them.

No, but close...

The truth is you can't prove it, I believe the same thing is true about God, you can't prove it...

But I do believe...

 

[ilia25]

Humans provide an ever changing standard.

I don't think that humans provide an ever changing morals. On the fundamental level the human moral is constant, and that is how it ended up in many religions, including Christianity.

Basically all human morals can be deducted from a simple rule:
"Do not impose suffering on other people".

And that rule itself is not divine, it can be derived from the basic common sense -- if you harm others, you can't complain if they respond by harming you.

So that how it goes -- human morals are nothing more than a common sense. And religious morals are accepted only to the extent they do not contradict human morals.

Again.... religious works written by.... men.

They certainly appear that way... Like something that people living 2000 years ago would write. You can actually see how their views evolved over centuries as they were writing the Bible.

 

[syrenn]

I don't think that humans provide an ever changing morals. On the fundamental level the human moral is constant, and that is how it ended up in many religions, including Christianity.

Basically all human morals can be deducted from a simple rule:
"Do not impose suffering on other people".

And that rule itself is not divine, it can be derived from the basic common sense -- if you harm others, you can't complain if they respond by harming you.

So that how it goes -- human morals are nothing more than a common sense. And religious morals are accepted only to the extent they do not contradict human morals.

Again.... religious works written by.... men.

They certainly appear that way... Like something that people living 2000 years ago would write. You can actually see how their views evolved over centuries as they were writing the Bible.

Lets not forget... the "bible" was written many years after the person of jeses... buy third or forth hand story telling of him.

 

[ilia25]

Again.... religious works written by.... men.

They certainly appear that way... Like something that people living 2000 years ago would write. You can actually see how their views evolved over centuries as they were writing the Bible.

Lets not forget... the "bible" was written many years after the person of jeses... buy third or forth hand story telling of him.

True.. I was referring to the Old Testament showing the evolution of what people consider right and wrong. But the New Testament evolved as well. The first story -- Mark's -- is very different from the last one, it did not even end with Resurrection (that scene was added later).

 

[TheLonelySquire]

I never claimed to have proof to the scientific origin of the universe, so I of course don't have faith in the scientific origin of the Universe and never said I did.

Are you reading someone else's posts and applying your responses to mine?

As far as proof --> aside from God existing in general lacking proof, what my response that you just replied to was referring to was that you do not have any type of proof where morals come from.

My bad. Please explain your take on how we all came to be here on this big blue marble if you can.

i did in the 1st post of the entire thread

So you don't know what to believe. Got it.

 

[emilynghiem]

Again.... religious works written by.... men.

They certainly appear that way... Like something that people living 2000 years ago would write. You can actually see how their views evolved over centuries as they were writing the Bible.

Lets not forget... the "bible" was written many years after the person of jeses... buy third or forth hand story telling of him.

Buddha's words and wisdom were spread by word of mouth after his lifetime.
And those still bear immortal relevance today.

The Constitutional principles and structure we have in our government
were derived from eternal self-evident truths about "human nature" and free will that have
existed since the beginning of human self-awareness,
and I am among many who believe those laws to be "divinely inspired" as God-given truths.

Just because these weren't written down until later
does not negate the fact that the true concepts they represent are universal and timeless.

 

[ilia25]

I am among many who believe those laws to be "divinely inspired" as God-given truths.

Your beliefs are irrational. But hey, if that works for you...

 

[hortysir]

Not a trick question - I'm being sincere. Me and the guy who hooked up my Verizon Fios were talking about this.

I was telling him that I'm just agnostic - I don't believe everything came from nothing but at the same time I'm not at all Religious.

He began to get into the Forgiveness thing.

I was like - well, I do my best (and even when noone's looking) to be a good person.....but if I continue down that path and can never get over the mental block of not having "faith," then I guess I'm doomed eh?

But the mental block won't ever go away. I know this because I know myself. I'd have to see some sort of miracle, and be able to somehow attribute that miracle to a Religion or whatever. I don't see this happening. How do you "just know?"

For me, "you don't."

I'm sure it's different for others.

Your opening post isn't what I was expecting when I read the title but I think my original thought as to what it meant can help to answer a little bit....

I thought the question was meant to ask, "How do you explain instinct?"

It made me think of a deer, when I'm out hunting.
I'm sitting in a tree with my rifle against my shoulder. I haven't made a noise or even so much as taken a breath out of anticipation.
The wind hasn't changed and this big buck isn't looking my direction.
All of a sudden his ears perk up and ZOOM!! he's off like a rabbit!!

We always call it 'instinct', right?

I call it 'God's whisper'.
Ya ever get that feeling, sometimes, like you shouldn't be somewhere so you leave and find out later that (for instance) a car swerved up on to that curb shortly after you left....or something similar????

Again, 'God's whisper'.

That's how you "just know" when something isn't right, or that you should do something, or that you shouldn't be doing what you're doing.

So, as an agnostic, you might call it instinct or conscience.
I call it God's voice!!

When you start to call it what it is, you'll more easily recognize it for what it is when you hear it.

I never will call it Gods voice until I see a supernatural phenomena and subsequently a God of one of the Religions step forth and claim credit.

That's what I mean - my rationale will *NOT* let me, no matter how light hearted and open minded I'm feeling that day.

Does the T in GT stand for Thomas?
Faith is believing without having to see.

How could you witness a miracle and just chalk it up to coincidence?
That's not really the definition of a miracle, ya know?!

If God or Allah, or any one of the myriad of other gods were to step up and claim your miracle, that would give it an explanation. Thus negating the 'miracle factor'.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Miracles are things that God does for fun. Why? He likes to make people smile.

God is Love, right?

 

[B94]

As some here have said - I was taught to believe in God when I was a child and I believed just like I believed in Santa or the Easter bunny.

But how do you know this belief is correct when you get older and start questioning what you were taught as a child?

I believe the answer to this is easy and it is taught in the Bible. I can’t tell you where in the Bible Jesus says that he makes prophesies of the future so when you see these fulfilled you will know the truth. Some of the Bible prophesies are also in revelations too and are events that will only happen once, which makes the prophesies easy to prove.

Check out this link for end times Bible prophesies -

https://www.endtime.com/urgent-questions/how-do-we-know-there-is-a-god/

Or give Irvin Baxter a call I’m sure he would try to help you.

 

[editec]

"Faith is that grace which surpasseth all understanding."

That is, the explaination of what FAITH is for the believers.

I mean look at it logically. What is it saying?

It is saying that faith is unsustainable via logic.

The only sane conclusion one can come to is that debates about matters of faith cannot be conducted logically.

Faith is like a GET FREE THE TYRANNY OF LOGIC card.