How do you "just know?"

[CrusaderFrank]

Not a trick question - I'm being sincere. Me and the guy who hooked up my Verizon Fios were talking about this.

I was telling him that I'm just agnostic - I don't believe everything came from nothing but at the same time I'm not at all Religious.

He began to get into the Forgiveness thing.

I was like - well, I do my best (and even when noone's looking) to be a good person.....but if I continue down that path and can never get over the mental block of not having "faith," then I guess I'm doomed eh?

But the mental block won't ever go away. I know this because I know myself. I'd have to see some sort of miracle, and be able to somehow attribute that miracle to a Religion or whatever. I don't see this happening. How do you "just know?"

For me, "you don't."

I'm sure it's different for others.

Self-Reliance

Try that.

Can you stick a C# on a C tonality? You just know, right?

I don't value your opinions, tbh. You hack too much.

Your loss.

 

[peach174]

You have the proof G.T.

You refuse to accept it.
If you use rational thinking. You would come to the conclusion that there is most defiantly a designer who created this universe and everything that is in it.
Humans who try to explain the perfection of the workings in this universe and this world does not cut it.
By no means or way, was the Universe or Earth a random or accidental way of how it works or came into being.
Everything points to a designer and the designer is God.
How do I know there is a God?
Because he has answered me with every prayer and every question and has guided me throughout my whole life.A lot of times I did not like the answer, but I found out latter why.
Even when I didn't seek for or look for him in my younger days. He was always with me.
Like I said it's up to you to decide.

You and I disagree with what we'd each call "proof," it seems.

Well I struggled with the question of is there or isn't there a God and came to the conclusion by rational thinking that there is most definitely a God.
The way you are going about it, the only exact proof you will have, will be when you stand before him on judgment day and then it will be too late.

 

[Mr Natural]

You have the proof G.T.

You refuse to accept it.
If you use rational thinking. You would come to the conclusion that there is most defiantly a designer who created this universe and everything that is in it.
Humans who try to explain the perfection of the workings in this universe and this world does not cut it.
By no means or way, was the Universe or Earth a random or accidental way of how it works or came into being.
Everything points to a designer and the designer is God.
How do I know there is a God?
Because he has answered me with every prayer and every question and has guided me throughout my whole life.A lot of times I did not like the answer, but I found out latter why.
Even when I didn't seek for or look for him in my younger days. He was always with me.
Like I said it's up to you to decide.

You and I disagree with what we'd each call "proof," it seems.

Well I struggled with the question of is there or isn't there a God and came to the conclusion by rational thinking that there is most definitely a God.
The way you are going about it, the only exact proof you will have, will be when you stand before him on judgment day and then it will be too late.

Well, something put all this here. And to attach the word "God" to that something makes sense.

But, to associate any kind of human characteristics to "God" is nothing more than arrogance on our part.

 

[emilynghiem]

Not a trick question - I'm being sincere. Me and the guy who hooked up my Verizon Fios were talking about this.

I was telling him that I'm just agnostic - I don't believe everything came from nothing but at the same time I'm not at all Religious.

He began to get into the Forgiveness thing.

I was like - well, I do my best (and even when noone's looking) to be a good person.....but if I continue down that path and can never get over the mental block of not having "faith," then I guess I'm doomed eh?

But the mental block won't ever go away. I know this because I know myself. I'd have to see some sort of miracle, and be able to somehow attribute that miracle to a Religion or whatever. I don't see this happening. How do you "just know?"

For me, "you don't."

I'm sure it's different for others.

When you were young, didnt you "just know" santa was real, and the easter bunny and tooth fairy were "real".... You believed ...you believed blindly because it was what your parents told you...

What changed your perception of "real" ...


Religion/god...is about the same thing.

What about your faith in "justice"?
If you believe there is justice on some level, and it will be realized by
acting with justice regardless what others do, that is the same as faith in Jesus.

What about your faith that good will triumphs over ill will?
Again, if you believe that acting in good faith establishes and fulfills good will
regardless of what others do, that is the same as faith in God's will to govern over all.

What about faith that forgiveness allows correction and pays off in the long run,
instead of seeking retribution that costs more and has the opposite effect than desired.

And faith in "abundance" mentality and SERVING OTHERS to bring about prosperity
rather than "scarcity" mentality and selfish competition to try to get ahead of others.

These are the REAL concepts that challenge our faith.

The things you list like Santa Claus, the tooth fairy, are not the same.

There are REAL concepts that Jesus and God stand for that
challenge all of us no matter what our path or beliefs in life.
Those are UNIVERSAL concepts that affect all humanity.

We are not talking about pixies and fairies here!

What do YOU believe about "justice" and establishing universal TRUTH
among all humanity? Do you believe that is even possible?
That is where your faith is challenged in the same way Christians or
anyone else struggles in life, Buddhists or Muslims or secular humanists
trying to live for "peace and social justice". Having faith that humanity
can actually work together in harmony to achieve lasting justice takes
a lot of faith from inside and out, from sharing with others and
going at it alone. No comparison to Santa Claus or tooth fairies is going to get you there.

If you REALLY believe that religious wars are fought to the death over something
that "trivial" then you have no understanding of the process it takes people to see justice.

Copernicus and Galileo weren't threatened to death over some tooth fairy myth.

People's fear and fight for truth and change has cost humanity untold suffering and sacrifice.

When you truly understand the liberty of humanity at stake,
then maybe you will understand why people have fought wars
and stood to die for Truth and Justice for all humanity, which God and Jesus represent.

 

[emilynghiem]

You and I disagree with what we'd each call "proof," it seems.

Well I struggled with the question of is there or isn't there a God and came to the conclusion by rational thinking that there is most definitely a God.
The way you are going about it, the only exact proof you will have, will be when you stand before him on judgment day and then it will be too late.

Well, something put all this here. And to attach the word "God" to that something makes sense.

But, to associate any kind of human characteristics to "God" is nothing more than arrogance on our part.

I think it is only human to personify God.
For God to be infinite would put God out of the limits of human perception.

So it makes sense to look at a manifestation or representation of God,
and understand God "in relation" or analogy on a human level.

That is why God is represented as a Trinity.
The RELATIONSHIP between the three levels
is like an analogy to the higher realm being represented.

Human Nature is three parts, that reflect the relationship with this higher God.
There is our physical individual level.
There is a collective spiritual/global level of all humanity over time and space,
including all universal truth/laws/experiences etc.
And there is the RELATIONSHIP between the two, what joins our individual
experience and understanding/perception with higher truth on an abstract level
by CONSCIENCE which is influenced by both the spiritual and the physical levels,
so it is BOTH.

Laws we live by conscience, our sense of JUSTICE, is where the "spirit of Jesus"
joins our physical human experience and realm with the higher collective level
that we call God's will or God's truth or God's love.

So the point is for all three levels:
BODY MIND SPIRIT
to be joined as one in HARMONY

This requires forgiveness and correction, letting go of our individual selfish interests
and balancing those with the greater good for all humanity, so there is no conflict
between the two, our human free will and this greater 'God's will' are one in agreement.

So that is where praying in agreement and receiving confirmation of truth in "Christ Jesus" or by conscience sets us free from strife and suffering that otherwise separates us
in selfish division, conflict and war instead of unifying us in heavenly peace on earth.

That healing grace is what the Holy Spirit represents that restores human relations
in good faith, rejoining the laws of man and material life on earth with the higher
realm of heavenly peace and living by spiritual laws of love of truth and restorative justice.

Yes, we may personify these three levels in order to make sense of the abstract concepts
as human beings. There is nothing wrong with personfication as long as you do not get so caught up in these that you become divided and judgmental of others which is not the point. The purpose is to relate to one another as neighbors in peace and grace, to love one another "unconditionally" as God and Jesus represent loving all people this way, including ALL people in "equal justice for all."

The point is to receive and let that level of universal love into our relationships.
Since we are human and respond to other people, it is natural to personify those relations.

 

[amrchaos]

Hey G.T.

Why is it important to you that you know or don't know?

Considering that we humans are born into ignorance(not including the automatic actions of our bodies such as breathing and so forth), it seems apparent that humans knowing anything is only important to humans. Humans possessing extra knowledge of the universe is irrelevant to any other entity besides our selves.

Agnosticism is a very rational approach to reality. Even those who are certain or believe deeply about some aspect of this world may eventually come across some type of counter-example to their deductions about this world.

What then, ignore the counter example and continue with your certainty/deep belief about the fact in question?

Or, question the whys of the counter-example and even your own conclusions that led you to the C.E.?

 

[syrenn]

I told you the distinction between now and then. We are back at square one.

How?


Your "boundary" point is where you agree, conscious or not, to submit and follow with blind faith without question...or prof... to believe....

I won't submit with blind faith - that's the whole point.

I know, i get that. Others however some do not require "prof" to believe. Just like santa clause and the easter bunny, they are feel good things, easy things to want to be real and true and good. Heavy indoctrination as a child also may hold sway in the beliefs of adults along with social pressures to conform.

The "point" of where others believe really doesn't matter, or the why they believe....the point is that they do.

 

[syrenn]

What about your faith in "justice"?
If you believe there is justice on some level, and it will be realized by
acting with justice regardless what others do, that is the same as faith in Jesus.

My belief in justice has ZREO to so with jusus. Humans meter our justice in their own cultural ways. By man for man.

What about your faith that good will triumphs over ill will?
Again, if you believe that acting in good faith establishes and fulfills good will
regardless of what others do, that is the same as faith in God's will to govern over all.

What about faith that forgiveness allows correction and pays off in the long run,
instead of seeking retribution that costs more and has the opposite effect than desired.

Forgiveness is given out by man to other men..... ZERO god required for that.

And faith in "abundance" mentality and SERVING OTHERS to bring about prosperity
rather than "scarcity" mentality and selfish competition to try to get ahead of others.

Hard work is accomplished by men and for men, by the minds and sweat of men..... ZERO god involved.

These are the REAL concepts that challenge our faith.

I agree....faith in your fellow man.

The things you list like Santa Claus, the tooth fairy, are not the same.

There are REAL concepts that Jesus and God stand for that
challenge all of us no matter what our path or beliefs in life.
Those are UNIVERSAL concepts that affect all humanity.

How sad you only think its jesus and god( christianity) that stand for these universal beliefs. I do believe that every other cult teaches the same concepts.

We are not talking about pixies and fairies here!

Can you prove that god and jeses were not pixies and fairies?

What do YOU believe about "justice" and establishing universal TRUTH
among all humanity? Do you believe that is even possible?

That is about the size of it...... the universal truth of ..... humanity. No god required.

That is where your faith is challenged in the same way Christians or
anyone else struggles in life, Buddhists or Muslims or secular humanists
trying to live for "peace and social justice". Having faith that humanity
can actually work together in harmony to achieve lasting justice takes
a lot of faith from inside and out, from sharing with others and
going at it alone. No comparison to Santa Claus or tooth fairies is going to get you there.

No, santa or the tooth fariy will not get us there.... but you started out on the right track. Having faith in HUMANITY for peace and social justice....will get us there. No god required.

If you REALLY believe that religious wars are fought to the death over something
that "trivial" then you have no understanding of the process it takes people to see justice.

Religious wars are fought for the same old reasons as any other war is faught..... land, power, wealth,, hate and dominion.

Copernicus and Galileo weren't threatened to death over some tooth fairy myth.

They were threatened becasue they dared to say things were not the way the religious masters would have you believe....

When you truly understand the liberty of humanity at stake,
then maybe you will understand why people have fought wars
and stood to die for Truth and Justice for all humanity, which God and Jesus represent.

I full well understand what humanity has at stake. Truth and justice are humanity issues.... and only humans will work that out. .... no god or jesus required.

 

[TheLonelySquire]

Not a trick question - I'm being sincere. Me and the guy who hooked up my Verizon Fios were talking about this.

I was telling him that I'm just agnostic - I don't believe everything came from nothing but at the same time I'm not at all Religious.

He began to get into the Forgiveness thing.

I was like - well, I do my best (and even when noone's looking) to be a good person.....but if I continue down that path and can never get over the mental block of not having "faith," then I guess I'm doomed eh?

But the mental block won't ever go away. I know this because I know myself. I'd have to see some sort of miracle, and be able to somehow attribute that miracle to a Religion or whatever. I don't see this happening. How do you "just know?"

For me, "you don't."

I'm sure it's different for others.

When you were young, didnt you "just know" santa was real, and the easter bunny and tooth fairy were "real".... You believed ...you believed blindly because it was what your parents told you...

What changed your perception of "real" ...


Religion/god...is about the same thing.

To me, the universe appearing out of nothing is about as believable as Ole' Saint Nick!

Life from non-life? That dog don't hunt.....

 

[LOki]

What about your faith in "justice"?
If you believe there is justice on some level, and it will be realized by
acting with justice regardless what others do, that is the same as faith in Jesus.

My belief in justice has ZREO to so with jusus. Humans meter our justice in their own cultural ways. By man for man.

What about your faith that good will triumphs over ill will?
Again, if you believe that acting in good faith establishes and fulfills good will
regardless of what others do, that is the same as faith in God's will to govern over all.

Forgiveness is given out by man to other men..... ZERO god required for that.






Hard work is accomplished by men and for men, by the minds and sweat of men..... ZERO god involved.





I agree....faith in your fellow man.





How sad you only think its jesus and god( christianity) that stand for these universal beliefs. I do believe that every other cult teaches the same concepts.




Can you prove that god and jeses were not pixies and fairies?





That is about the size of it...... the universal truth of ..... humanity. No god required.






No, santa or the tooth fariy will not get us there.... but you started out on the right track. Having faith in HUMANITY for peace and social justice....will get us there. No god required.





Religious wars are fought for the same old reasons as any other war is faught..... land, power, wealth,, hate and dominion.

Copernicus and Galileo weren't threatened to death over some tooth fairy myth.

They were threatened becasue they dared to say things were not the way the religious masters would have you believe....

When you truly understand the liberty of humanity at stake,
then maybe you will understand why people have fought wars
and stood to die for Truth and Justice for all humanity, which God and Jesus represent.

I full well understand what humanity has at stake. Truth and justice are humanity issues.... and only humans will work that out. .... no god or jesus required.

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to syrenn again."​

 

[syrenn]

Not a trick question - I'm being sincere. Me and the guy who hooked up my Verizon Fios were talking about this.

I was telling him that I'm just agnostic - I don't believe everything came from nothing but at the same time I'm not at all Religious.

He began to get into the Forgiveness thing.

I was like - well, I do my best (and even when noone's looking) to be a good person.....but if I continue down that path and can never get over the mental block of not having "faith," then I guess I'm doomed eh?

But the mental block won't ever go away. I know this because I know myself. I'd have to see some sort of miracle, and be able to somehow attribute that miracle to a Religion or whatever. I don't see this happening. How do you "just know?"

For me, "you don't."

I'm sure it's different for others.

When you were young, didnt you "just know" santa was real, and the easter bunny and tooth fairy were "real".... You believed ...you believed blindly because it was what your parents told you...

What changed your perception of "real" ...


Religion/god...is about the same thing.

To me, the universe appearing out of nothing is about as believable as Ole' Saint Nick!

Life from non-life? That dog don't hunt.....

And why does it have to be a god sparks all of this?





could be the Squire of Gothos who did it you know...... lol.

 

[TheLonelySquire]

What about your faith in "justice"?
If you believe there is justice on some level, and it will be realized by
acting with justice regardless what others do, that is the same as faith in Jesus.

My belief in justice has ZREO to so with jusus. Humans meter our justice in their own cultural ways. By man for man.

What about your faith that good will triumphs over ill will?
Again, if you believe that acting in good faith establishes and fulfills good will
regardless of what others do, that is the same as faith in God's will to govern over all.

Forgiveness is given out by man to other men..... ZERO god required for that.






Hard work is accomplished by men and for men, by the minds and sweat of men..... ZERO god involved.





I agree....faith in your fellow man.





How sad you only think its jesus and god( christianity) that stand for these universal beliefs. I do believe that every other cult teaches the same concepts.




Can you prove that god and jeses were not pixies and fairies?





That is about the size of it...... the universal truth of ..... humanity. No god required.






No, santa or the tooth fariy will not get us there.... but you started out on the right track. Having faith in HUMANITY for peace and social justice....will get us there. No god required.





Religious wars are fought for the same old reasons as any other war is faught..... land, power, wealth,, hate and dominion.

Copernicus and Galileo weren't threatened to death over some tooth fairy myth.

They were threatened becasue they dared to say things were not the way the religious masters would have you believe....

When you truly understand the liberty of humanity at stake,
then maybe you will understand why people have fought wars
and stood to die for Truth and Justice for all humanity, which God and Jesus represent.

I full well understand what humanity has at stake. Truth and justice are humanity issues.... and only humans will work that out. .... no god or jesus required.

If I might ask, I assume you believe in moraltiy? If so, do you have a moral standard? And if you do does that standard remain constant or does it change?

My point being that if you have an ever changing moral standard then in effect you have no standard at all. And if you have non standard you have no morals. God ives us the standard by which we should live.

It's the same with our legal system. When rapists and murderers are given plea agreements and allowed to go free, when drug dealers get slapped on the wrist, it only shows that man as a morality and justice dispenser is sorely lacking.

Againm without God it's a trainwreck.

 

[syrenn]

What about your faith in "justice"?
If you believe there is justice on some level, and it will be realized by
acting with justice regardless what others do, that is the same as faith in Jesus.

My belief in justice has ZREO to so with jusus. Humans meter our justice in their own cultural ways. By man for man.











Forgiveness is given out by man to other men..... ZERO god required for that.






Hard work is accomplished by men and for men, by the minds and sweat of men..... ZERO god involved.





I agree....faith in your fellow man.





How sad you only think its jesus and god( christianity) that stand for these universal beliefs. I do believe that every other cult teaches the same concepts.




Can you prove that god and jeses were not pixies and fairies?





That is about the size of it...... the universal truth of ..... humanity. No god required.






No, santa or the tooth fariy will not get us there.... but you started out on the right track. Having faith in HUMANITY for peace and social justice....will get us there. No god required.





Religious wars are fought for the same old reasons as any other war is faught..... land, power, wealth,, hate and dominion.




They were threatened becasue they dared to say things were not the way the religious masters would have you believe....

When you truly understand the liberty of humanity at stake,
then maybe you will understand why people have fought wars
and stood to die for Truth and Justice for all humanity, which God and Jesus represent.

I full well understand what humanity has at stake. Truth and justice are humanity issues.... and only humans will work that out. .... no god or jesus required.

If I might ask, I assume you believe in moraltiy? If so, do you have a moral standard? And if you do does that standard remain constant or does it change?

My point being that if you have an ever changing moral standard then in effect you have no standard at all. And if you have non standard you have no morals. God ives us the standard by which we should live.

It's the same with our legal system. When rapists and murderers are given plea agreements and allowed to go free, when drug dealers get slapped on the wrist, it only shows that man as a morality and justice dispenser is sorely lacking.

Againm without God it's a trainwreck.

With god its a trainwreck.