How do you feel the standoff in Washington would best resolved?

[ScienceRocks]

Cut welfare back to 2008
Get out of Afifuckinstan by this summer
Cut corporate to 28%

Then yes raise income tax on the top 2%, 4%.

 

[HUGGY]

Unkotare, HUGGY, and Oldstyle, please stop the useless badgering and dung slinging. I do not want it on the thread I started to create positive and forward thinking conversation, thank you.

I'm just teasing Huggy, CP...he tends to get a bit "bellicose" on the site.

Here's my only problem with your willingness to go along with tax increases to address the deficit...I agree with you that most Americans would be willing to pony up more in taxes if they saw that money actually going towards deficit reduction but to be quite honest with you that's NOT what being proposed by this Administration. What we're being asked to do is take more money out of the private sector and give it to the public sector to be wasted on more governmental waste while the deficit continues to grow by leaps and bounds.

The truth is...Washington is almost incapable of cutting government programs but until they start doing so...any additional taxes that you collect will go towards a bigger and more wasteful Federal government and I'm NOT willing to give up my hard earned money for THAT.

And THAT is all I was really conveying also. I worked hard and long for the SS I am recieving. I hear many say it is some form of "mooching" off of America and should be reduced as if I am some fat stupid welfare queen that should get off my ass and get a job. That kinda talk makes my blood boil.

 

[Oldstyle]

Unkotare, HUGGY, and Oldstyle, please stop the useless badgering and dung slinging. I do not want it on the thread I started to create positive and forward thinking conversation, thank you.

I'm just teasing Huggy, CP...he tends to get a bit "bellicose" on the site.

Here's my only problem with your willingness to go along with tax increases to address the deficit...I agree with you that most Americans would be willing to pony up more in taxes if they saw that money actually going towards deficit reduction but to be quite honest with you that's NOT what being proposed by this Administration. What we're being asked to do is take more money out of the private sector and give it to the public sector to be wasted on more governmental waste while the deficit continues to grow by leaps and bounds.

The truth is...Washington is almost incapable of cutting government programs but until they start doing so...any additional taxes that you collect will go towards a bigger and more wasteful Federal government and I'm NOT willing to give up my hard earned money for THAT.

Can you provide us with some "credible" backup and links for your claims?

You want me to "backup" my contention that the Federal Government is wasteful? Really?

Or did you want "backup" to my contention that Washington is almost incapable of cutting government programs?

I'm amused by your demands that something as obvious as those two things NEED to be backed up.

 

[cpcreativity]

Unkotare, HUGGY, and Oldstyle, please stop the useless badgering and dung slinging. I do not want it on the thread I started to create positive and forward thinking conversation, thank you.

You can ditch the nonsense by posting your serious threads in the "Clean Debate Zone".

I typed out a pm to send reply to you, but apparently I cannot send pm's until I have posted 50 comments which I find a little bit overbearing, but I can either reply here or reply when I have posted 50 comments with a pm. Let me know if you are find with me posting it up here and if not, don't say anything and I will reply when I hit 50 comments.

 

[Oldstyle]

Unkotare, HUGGY, and Oldstyle, please stop the useless badgering and dung slinging. I do not want it on the thread I started to create positive and forward thinking conversation, thank you.

I'm just teasing Huggy, CP...he tends to get a bit "bellicose" on the site.

Here's my only problem with your willingness to go along with tax increases to address the deficit...I agree with you that most Americans would be willing to pony up more in taxes if they saw that money actually going towards deficit reduction but to be quite honest with you that's NOT what being proposed by this Administration. What we're being asked to do is take more money out of the private sector and give it to the public sector to be wasted on more governmental waste while the deficit continues to grow by leaps and bounds.

The truth is...Washington is almost incapable of cutting government programs but until they start doing so...any additional taxes that you collect will go towards a bigger and more wasteful Federal government and I'm NOT willing to give up my hard earned money for THAT.

And THAT is all I was really conveying also. I worked hard and long for the SS I am recieving. I hear many say it is some form of "mooching" off of America and should be reduced as if I am some fat stupid welfare queen that should get off my ass and get a job. That kinda talk makes my blood boil.

With all due respect, Huggy? You accused me of being a liar when I informed you that Congress has been raiding the SS fund for decades now which is why the money that people paid into the system isn't there. I was simply stating a fact.

As for what people should get out of SS? One of the problems we face is that SS was never intended to support people who were retiring and living for another 20 years. The average life expectancy back in the 1930's when SS was introduced was just over 60 years of age for men and 62 for women. Now the life expectancy for males is 76 and even higher for women. So a system that was designed to pay for an average of a few YEARS is now supposed to pay for almost two DECADES. Couple that with the cost of Medicare to keep those older people alive...with medical costs spiking dramatically in the last twenty years of someone's life...and you can see why we don't have the money to pay for our entitlements. To be quite blunt...if you're an average American you are probably going to be TAKING far more out of the system than you ever put in. That doesn't make you a bad person...it simply means our system needs to be reworked so it does what it was originally intended to do.

 

[Lakhota]

I'm just teasing Huggy, CP...he tends to get a bit "bellicose" on the site.

Here's my only problem with your willingness to go along with tax increases to address the deficit...I agree with you that most Americans would be willing to pony up more in taxes if they saw that money actually going towards deficit reduction but to be quite honest with you that's NOT what being proposed by this Administration. What we're being asked to do is take more money out of the private sector and give it to the public sector to be wasted on more governmental waste while the deficit continues to grow by leaps and bounds.

The truth is...Washington is almost incapable of cutting government programs but until they start doing so...any additional taxes that you collect will go towards a bigger and more wasteful Federal government and I'm NOT willing to give up my hard earned money for THAT.

Can you provide us with some "credible" backup and links for your claims?

You want me to "backup" my contention that the Federal Government is wasteful? Really?

Or did you want "backup" to my contention that Washington is almost incapable of cutting government programs?

I'm amused by your demands that something as obvious as those two things NEED to be backed up.

Tell us with "credible" facts how you think Obama isn't trying to negotiate in good faith.

 

[ScienceRocks]

Obama is a lot like President Morsi right now.

 

[Papageorgio]

Unkotare, HUGGY, and Oldstyle, please stop the useless badgering and dung slinging. I do not want it on the thread I started to create positive and forward thinking conversation, thank you.

I'm just teasing Huggy, CP...he tends to get a bit "bellicose" on the site.

Here's my only problem with your willingness to go along with tax increases to address the deficit...I agree with you that most Americans would be willing to pony up more in taxes if they saw that money actually going towards deficit reduction but to be quite honest with you that's NOT what being proposed by this Administration. What we're being asked to do is take more money out of the private sector and give it to the public sector to be wasted on more governmental waste while the deficit continues to grow by leaps and bounds.

The truth is...Washington is almost incapable of cutting government programs but until they start doing so...any additional taxes that you collect will go towards a bigger and more wasteful Federal government and I'm NOT willing to give up my hard earned money for THAT.

And THAT is all I was really conveying also. I worked hard and long for the SS I am recieving. I hear many say it is some form of "mooching" off of America and should be reduced as if I am some fat stupid welfare queen that should get off my ass and get a job. That kinda talk makes my blood boil.

Social Security is not mooching, it has been paid into and the government is owing it to its citizens.

Government is also wasteful, not because of SS.

 

[cpcreativity]

Cut welfare back to 2008
Get out of Afifuckinstan by this summer
Cut corporate to 28%

Then yes raise income tax on the top 2%, 4%.

I see a point there. welfare is running a bit rampant at something around $900 billion the last I heard. Not sure how accurate that statement/figure is, but is just the last I have heard about it.

Afghanistan I agree should be over and done with. Our initial "official" reason for entering Afghanistan to begin with was... hmmm... oh that's right! OSAMA... I think I remember Bush explicitly outlining that we were not to attempt any kind of governmental construction there, but we ended up staying (obviously) long after Bin Laden allegedly fled the country (presumably to Pakistan) and now past the alleged death of Bin Laden as well. It is time to leave Afghanistan and start investing in protecting our literal homeland security.

Cutting corporate I'm not sure is the best idea because as I understand it, corporate rates are lower than they have been in about 40 or 50 years.... I don't see a need to cut them anymore. If anything, we should give them incentives through deductions, etcetera to bring jobs to the U.S. and create new operations here at home.


I have already outlined my feelings on raising taxes and I think that after a while that wouldn't be a bad idea.

 

[cpcreativity]

I'm just teasing Huggy, CP...he tends to get a bit "bellicose" on the site.

Here's my only problem with your willingness to go along with tax increases to address the deficit...I agree with you that most Americans would be willing to pony up more in taxes if they saw that money actually going towards deficit reduction but to be quite honest with you that's NOT what being proposed by this Administration. What we're being asked to do is take more money out of the private sector and give it to the public sector to be wasted on more governmental waste while the deficit continues to grow by leaps and bounds.

The truth is...Washington is almost incapable of cutting government programs but until they start doing so...any additional taxes that you collect will go towards a bigger and more wasteful Federal government and I'm NOT willing to give up my hard earned money for THAT.

And THAT is all I was really conveying also. I worked hard and long for the SS I am recieving. I hear many say it is some form of "mooching" off of America and should be reduced as if I am some fat stupid welfare queen that should get off my ass and get a job. That kinda talk makes my blood boil.

With all due respect, Huggy? You accused me of being a liar when I informed you that Congress has been raiding the SS fund for decades now which is why the money that people paid into the system isn't there. I was simply stating a fact.

As for what people should get out of SS? One of the problems we face is that SS was never intended to support people who were retiring and living for another 20 years. The average life expectancy back in the 1930's when SS was introduced was just over 60 years of age for men and 62 for women. Now the life expectancy for males is 76 and even higher for women. So a system that was designed to pay for an average of a few YEARS is now supposed to pay for almost two DECADES. Couple that with the cost of Medicare to keep those older people alive...with medical costs spiking dramatically in the last twenty years of someone's life...and you can see why we don't have the money to pay for our entitlements. To be quite blunt...if you're an average American you are probably going to be TAKING far more out of the system than you ever put in. That doesn't make you a bad person...it simply means our system needs to be reworked so it does what it was originally intended to do.

Not to mention the baby-boomers aging. More and more people are in or nearing SS age than are entering the labor force... Makes it unsustainable.

 

[Oldstyle]

Can you provide us with some "credible" backup and links for your claims?

You want me to "backup" my contention that the Federal Government is wasteful? Really?

Or did you want "backup" to my contention that Washington is almost incapable of cutting government programs?

I'm amused by your demands that something as obvious as those two things NEED to be backed up.

Tell us with "credible" facts how you think Obama isn't trying to negotiate in good faith.

When I see the President specifically name the cuts to government programs that he pledges to do NOW in return for either tax increases or a revamping of the tax code to close loopholes and deductions then I will agree that he is negotiating in good faith. If he continues to demand tax increases NOW with unspecified cuts to unspecified programs years down the road then I will continue to point out that he is NOT negotiating in good faith.

 

[cpcreativity]

SS reform is necessary, in my opinion. Not to prevent certain people from getting it of course, but something like an increase in the age of eligibility because of the approximately 20 more years we all live (on average).

SS is something owed to the people by our government though there is no question about that.

 

[Lakhota]

Cut welfare back to 2008
Get out of Afifuckinstan by this summer
Cut corporate to 28%

Then yes raise income tax on the top 2%, 4%.

I see a point there. welfare is running a bit rampant at something around $900 billion the last I heard. Not sure how accurate that statement/figure is, but is just the last I have heard about it.

Afghanistan I agree should be over and done with. Our initial "official" reason for entering Afghanistan to begin with was... hmmm... oh that's right! OSAMA... I think I remember Bush explicitly outlining that we were not to attempt any kind of governmental construction there, but we ended up staying (obviously) long after Bin Laden allegedly fled the country (presumably to Pakistan) and now past the alleged death of Bin Laden as well. It is time to leave Afghanistan and start investing in protecting our literal homeland security.

Cutting corporate I'm not sure is the best idea because as I understand it, corporate rates are lower than they have been in about 40 or 50 years.... I don't see a need to cut them anymore. If anything, we should give them incentives through deductions, etcetera to bring jobs to the U.S. and create new operations here at home.


I have already outlined my feelings on raising taxes and I think that after a while that wouldn't be a bad idea.

Really? Maybe you should look it up. It's about half that.

US Federal Budget Spending Estimate vs. Actual for FY2012 - Charts

 

[Oldstyle]

And THAT is all I was really conveying also. I worked hard and long for the SS I am recieving. I hear many say it is some form of "mooching" off of America and should be reduced as if I am some fat stupid welfare queen that should get off my ass and get a job. That kinda talk makes my blood boil.

With all due respect, Huggy? You accused me of being a liar when I informed you that Congress has been raiding the SS fund for decades now which is why the money that people paid into the system isn't there. I was simply stating a fact.

As for what people should get out of SS? One of the problems we face is that SS was never intended to support people who were retiring and living for another 20 years. The average life expectancy back in the 1930's when SS was introduced was just over 60 years of age for men and 62 for women. Now the life expectancy for males is 76 and even higher for women. So a system that was designed to pay for an average of a few YEARS is now supposed to pay for almost two DECADES. Couple that with the cost of Medicare to keep those older people alive...with medical costs spiking dramatically in the last twenty years of someone's life...and you can see why we don't have the money to pay for our entitlements. To be quite blunt...if you're an average American you are probably going to be TAKING far more out of the system than you ever put in. That doesn't make you a bad person...it simply means our system needs to be reworked so it does what it was originally intended to do.

Not to mention the baby-boomers aging. More and more people are in or nearing SS age than are entering the labor force... Makes it unsustainable.

Something that those who run Washington have seen coming for decades, CP and chose to ignore because they wanted to spend more money on more programs even if they had to steal it from the SS general fund. We SHOULD have risen up and demanded they cease and desist from that the very first time they tried it. We, the citizens of the US got complacent and our "representatives" screwed us over.

 

[cpcreativity]

You want me to "backup" my contention that the Federal Government is wasteful? Really?

Or did you want "backup" to my contention that Washington is almost incapable of cutting government programs?

I'm amused by your demands that something as obvious as those two things NEED to be backed up.

Tell us with "credible" facts how you think Obama isn't trying to negotiate in good faith.

When I see the President specifically name the cuts to government programs that he pledges to do NOW in return for either tax increases or a revamping of the tax code to close loopholes and deductions then I will agree that he is negotiating in good faith. If he continues to demand tax increases NOW with unspecified cuts to unspecified programs years down the road then I will continue to point out that he is NOT negotiating in good faith.

I agree with you on the basis that Obama is not negotiating in as good a faith as a lot of people think he is. Please, regardless of party agendas and beliefs follow me on this. Obama has done something POLITICALLY ingenious using this "fiscal cliff" fiasco. He has pushed Republicans into a position of public scrutiny by which many Americans (the majority who cast blame) would blame Republicans for the outcome of going "over the cliff" if a deal is not struck. Thus, they either have to pray that this so called cliff is not detrimental to our nation OR take the deal Obama is offering if they want to be seen as anything resembling the good guys in this. Right? No, but clever none-the-less.

Both parties and the rest of Congress need to strike a deal and compromise more. It is unfortunate that things have gotten to this stage in the game.

 

[Oldstyle]

SS reform is necessary, in my opinion. Not to prevent certain people from getting it of course, but something like an increase in the age of eligibility because of the approximately 20 more years we all live (on average).

SS is something owed to the people by our government though there is no question about that.

Yet every time someone makes a serious effort to put forward a plan to fix SS they are instantly attacked and accused of wanting to "destroy" SS and push Grandma off a cliff.

 

[ScienceRocks]

SS reform is necessary, in my opinion. Not to prevent certain people from getting it of course, but something like an increase in the age of eligibility because of the approximately 20 more years we all live (on average).

SS is something owed to the people by our government though there is no question about that.

Yet every time someone makes a serious effort to put forward a plan to fix SS they are instantly attacked and accused of wanting to "destroy" SS and push Grandma off a cliff.

Hey leftist how would you fix ssi?

 

[Lakhota]

SS reform is necessary, in my opinion. Not to prevent certain people from getting it of course, but something like an increase in the age of eligibility because of the approximately 20 more years we all live (on average).

SS is something owed to the people by our government though there is no question about that.

Yet every time someone makes a serious effort to put forward a plan to fix SS they are instantly attacked and accused of wanting to "destroy" SS and push Grandma off a cliff.

Considering that SS currently has a $2.7 trillion surplus and is good until 2033 without any changes - and doesn't cost the government one single penny, what would you recommend changing at this time?

SS has always been tuned and tweaked throughout its history to keep it solvent - by sane people.

 

[cpcreativity]

With all due respect, Huggy? You accused me of being a liar when I informed you that Congress has been raiding the SS fund for decades now which is why the money that people paid into the system isn't there. I was simply stating a fact.

As for what people should get out of SS? One of the problems we face is that SS was never intended to support people who were retiring and living for another 20 years. The average life expectancy back in the 1930's when SS was introduced was just over 60 years of age for men and 62 for women. Now the life expectancy for males is 76 and even higher for women. So a system that was designed to pay for an average of a few YEARS is now supposed to pay for almost two DECADES. Couple that with the cost of Medicare to keep those older people alive...with medical costs spiking dramatically in the last twenty years of someone's life...and you can see why we don't have the money to pay for our entitlements. To be quite blunt...if you're an average American you are probably going to be TAKING far more out of the system than you ever put in. That doesn't make you a bad person...it simply means our system needs to be reworked so it does what it was originally intended to do.

Not to mention the baby-boomers aging. More and more people are in or nearing SS age than are entering the labor force... Makes it unsustainable.

Something that those who run Washington have seen coming for decades, CP and chose to ignore because they wanted to spend more money on more programs even if they had to steal it from the SS general fund. We SHOULD have risen up and demanded they cease and desist from that the very first time they tried it. We, the citizens of the US got complacent and our "representatives" screwed us over.

That is true. However, I do think that the people became less "complacent" and more "blinded" or "distracted by the political garbage both the liberal media and corporate elitists have been throwing around. I'm sorry to say and I hate to single out parties. movements, etc. by name, but the idea that there are some very sketchy details about the origins of both radical Occupy-ers and radical Tea Party-ers that can be traced to the liberal media and the wealthy and power corporate-types like the Koch brothers.

Whether allegations or speculations are true about either party, the fact that I brought them up alone is evidence of the kind of trickery the American people are subject to every day; whether it be true or false.

 

[cpcreativity]

Here is something interesting on the subject of SS.


Social Security can pay all benefits in full through 2035. After then it can pay 77% of benefits decreasing to 74% in 2085 and beyond.


http://www.ssa.gov/oact/TR/2011/tr2011.pdf