How do we get out of this?

[Darkwind]

I do question one thing. For many of the years since 1979, we citizens are told that Iran was a few weeks from nukes. A few months from nukes. And so on. endless. Several months ago, we supposedly ended their nuclear program. And then a couple of weeks ago, this. The Shah was dictatorial yet modern. The Ayatollahs are dictatorial and believe in medieval ways of living while using modern weapon technologies to eliminate their enemies.

Well, I don't agree with that. From 79 to about 2000, the policy was that Iran could not be permitted to have nuclear weapons. The policy was aimed at keeping China and the Soviets from arming Iran with nukes.

Somewhere around the middle of the Afghanistan/Iraq war, Iran started acquiring fissile material with the intent to enrich to weapons-grade. They lacked the technical know-how regarding the centrifuges. Until Obama took office, they lacked the resources to obtain those centrifuges. After a pallet or two of hard currency from the United States Democratic Party, they were able to free up the resources to upgrade their technology. It was at that point, I believe, that the policy shifted from centrifugal technology to missile technology, and Iran has made huge strides in their range of missiles. At that time, our Intelligence was flashing the red lights regarding Iran's enrichment ambitions. Everyone thank, Obama.

That so-called Iran deal was proof that Obama and the Democrats were not negotiating on behalf of the United States and started working on managing Iran's acquisition of nukes. That is borderline sedition in My opinion. If you are elected to serve the American people, you NEVER negotiate on behalf of another nation.

Last summer, they hit Iran's enrichment sites and thought they had destroyed them all. They even made announcements that they had.

Enter the Democrats, once again. Right after the attacks, which interfered with their desire to have a nuclear Iran, the Democrats and their propaganda outlets started screaming that it was not destroyed.

Wow, turns out that they were right. A rare occurrence of truth and the Democrat party.

So, the threat we wanted to end remained, even if it was greatly diminished. That means they only need to get their hands on centrifuges from their allies, and they'd be right back in business. We should have taken the current action back last summer, but there were other operations in the planning. Venezuela, for one.

The left has been making great noise about there being no imminent threat from Iran.

THAT HAS NEVER BEEN A STANDARD FOR OUR DEFENSE, EVER!

The Democrats' hopes are that Iran gets a nuke before we go in to stop them, and now they are actively pulling for Iran in direct conflict with their own country.

None of this, and a whole lot of Americans, would still be alive if Bush the Elder or even Clinton had taken from them their ability to threaten the entire region.

The deaths of the Mullahs in Iran have been long overdue. When they are gone, America will be orders of magnitude safer.

 

[Independent thinker]

Iran is not interested in peace talks: Iran war: Tehran sees no reason to talk with US

Our former friends have understandably told us to go to hell: European countries reject Trump’s call for help to reopen strait of Hormuz

Iran wants their pound of flesh for this, at least. They're not going to let us out of there without some pain.

I'm assuming that there's some kind of back-channel talking going on, but how else can we get of this mess? Can't Trump just declare some kind of victory and run? He can just make something up. That's what he does. Just keep saying "we won, we won".

Ideas?

We get out of it by toppling the regime.

 

[Stryder50]

So, there is a conflict between Iran and the US.


The US is striking at Iran.

Iran is striking at the world....


Yet the world is complaining to Trump... for Iran's actions....


Do you even realize the implications of that?

Iran, more correctly the theocracy ruling it, has been striking at the world, along with the USA, for about 47years now

 

[Stryder50]

Great. When are you enlisting?

My time was decades ago, I'm too old for that now.
So I'll remain here and counter the agents of Islamic Jihad such as traitors like you.

BTW, my oldest son was over there, in Iraq, 2004-2005, fighting against the Iranian "insurrectionists" that were meddling in the post Saddam Iraq reconstruction.

 

[konradv]

We get out of it by toppling the regime.

We get out of it by getting out of it.

 

[Stryder50]

I asked a question, no one is answering.

This is important.


The world is attacking TRUMP for IRAN'S actions.


Does anyone else see the implications of this?

Iran's theocracy and Islamic Jihad in general are 'running' the world,
NOT Israel and Zionism.

Evil versus Good
And all too much like the prophecies of Apocalypse (Revelations).
For an atheist/agnostic such as myself, a bit disconcerting.

 

[Correll]

Not interested. STFU!

MIGA!!!!!!!!!!

Note the way that you are a. UTTERLY RUDE AND HYSTERICAL and b. completely failing to address the topic.


That's you doing you.

 

[Lesh]

Killing off the leaders of Iran has made the IRGC stronger… and they ARE the crazy ones

****

 

[Correll]

Aug 5, 2025 — President Trump on Tuesday doubled down on his push for Texas to redraw its congressional map.

I didn't deny that we are pushing our agenda. I pointed out that it is our RIGHT TO PARTICIPATE in the political process.

Just how stupid are you?

FBI expands election integrity investigation into Arizona ...​

View attachment 1231824
WBFF
https://foxbaltimore.com › news › nation-world › fbi-e...




Mar 9, 2026 — The FBI has reportedly seized election records from a second county, this time in Arizona.

Wait.. are you attacking maga for not trusting elections, or are you expressing your lack of trust in elections? Or, bonus round, are you doing both at the same time?

Bondi's injection of voter roll demands into Minneapolis ...​

View attachment 1231825
CNN
https://www.cnn.com › 2026/01/27 › politics › pam-bo...




Jan 27, 2026 — Attorney General Pam Bondi's demand that Minnesota hand over sensitive voter registration records to the federal government amid tensions ...

Still not clear. Please clarify.

Either way, meaningless... idiocy.

Trump was warned that would happen, he did it anyway.

Yes, I already discussed that you are giving IRAN a pass on responsibility for their actions, and holding TRUMP responsible.

Side with our enemies, and blame America.

Typical anti-American leftard.

We can go over that point as much as you want.

No, that's what the spineless, republican congress is doing.

Trump skirts Congress over Iran war as Republicans ...​

View attachment 1231826
The Guardian
https://www.theguardian.com › us-news › mar › trump-...




Mar 7, 2026 — Senate blocks war powers measure and House follows suit – now president can bomb Iran free from congressional interference.

Trump, as usual can do anything to any country and his cult doesn't care.

Trump Eyes Another Country for 51st American State​

View attachment 1231832
The Daily Beast
https://www.thedailybeast.com › trump-eyes-another-cou...




37 minutes ago — Canada and Greenland can breathe easy—Donald Trump has found a new candidate to be America's 51st state. Trump, 79, posted on Truth Social ...

I hold Trump responsible for the actions of the US.

They already lost..........Remember?



Just like Nutandyahoo said................



No, the ones who warned the fat orange despot were the adults.

LOL.
That's your dear leader and his cult.


I don't know what they will do with Trump and his cult.

Yeah we get it. you hate Trump. Anything TRUMP does is wrong... till it is your turn, then forget about it.

 

[Stryder50]

I get it, and I am glad to hear alternative views and solutions that don't involve "But TRUMP!!!" I don't like being in wars and think we need to do everything possible to avoid them, but if all else fails, let's make it impossible for the problem to ever arise again. Regime change never works. Nation building never works. Thinking about the children never works. War should be so horrific that no one even considers it as a solution to an international problem. War is like cancer. Nobody wants it, but if it arrives don't "fight nice" with cancer, destroy it completely. I think if Iran, and the rest of the world know we will ultimately treat them like a cancer, they will behave differently.

PART ONE:

Don't misunderstand the rep I gave you.
I do thank you for your thoughts and response, but don't agree with them.

WAR is response to violence, aggression, and assaults of one nation(group) upon another nation(group).
Had Poland not resisted Nazi Germany's invasion in Sept. 1939 with the Polish military there would have been no "war" between Germany and Poland. England and France's response might still have been the same.

My point is that history is filled with violence and aggressions by one group of humans upon another group of humans. If the target group doesn't resist, than they just become victims, willingly it might seem.
But if the target group resists violence with violence, then we call that war.

If you are the one that's been attacked, and if you win the war against your attacker, than war has served a good purpose and good results. If you lose against your attacker than the war was at least noble, but the results not so good for the target/one attacked. However the attacker and winner has just found war to yield good results and rewards.

The "Good" and/or "Bad" of War is a relative judgement it would seem.

Also, in many cases, especially recent decades(centuries ?), War is the result of failed politics.
...

Podkayne of Mars​

All page numbers from the mass market paperback edition published by Berkley Medallion Books, ISBN 0-425-03434-8, January 1970, 12th printing

• “So you say ‘Politics!’ as if it were a nasty word—and you think that settles it.”
  He sighed. “But you don’t understand. Politics is not evil; politics is the human race’s most magnificent achievement. When politics is good, it’s wonderful…and when politics is bad—well, it’s still pretty good.”
  “I guess I don’t understand,” I said slowly.
  “Think about it. Politics is just a name for the way we get things done...without fighting. We dicker and compromise and everybody thinks he has received a raw deal, but somehow after a tedious amount of talk we come up with some jury-rigged way to do it without getting anybody’s head bashed in. That’s politics. The only other way to settle a dispute is by bashing a few heads in...and that is what happens when one or both sides is no longer willing to dicker. That’s why I say politics is good even when it is bad…because the only alternative is force—and somebody gets hurt.”
  • Chapter 4 (p. 33)
  • Robert A. Heinlein - Wikiquote

 

[Stryder50]

I get it, and I am glad to hear alternative views and solutions that don't involve "But TRUMP!!!" I don't like being in wars and think we need to do everything possible to avoid them, but if all else fails, let's make it impossible for the problem to ever arise again. Regime change never works. Nation building never works. Thinking about the children never works. War should be so horrific that no one even considers it as a solution to an international problem. War is like cancer. Nobody wants it, but if it arrives don't "fight nice" with cancer, destroy it completely. I think if Iran, and the rest of the world know we will ultimately treat them like a cancer, they will behave differently.

PART TWO:

Regime change can often work (but not always a guarantee);
We fought World War Two nominally to counter and then change regimes, in Germany, Japan, and Italy.
We won, and then changed those regimes.

Nation Building likewise can work and often has.
The USA fought a War of Independence for both a self regime change and also to engage in Building a New Nation in place of the old.
In the example of World War Two mentioned above, after the regime changes of the Axis Powers, those nations were rebuilt, in government and also repair of the economies damaged by the war (Thank you USA and Marshall Plan, etc.)
Would seem in cases of Germany and Japan the Nation Building worked out quite well. Italy maybe so-so, depending on viewpoint.

Thinking about children ?
As a parent and a grand-parent I've spent much of my life thinking about children, and their future. In many cases, Regime Change and Nation Building are about the children, present and future, and wanting to provide a better world for them, the future generations.

War horrific ?
Sometimes it can have it's value, but should not confuse the ends for the means, or means for the ends.

First Rule of War is to have a clear vision of the sort of Peace(results) you want.

Second Rule is have a clear idea, plan for how you wish to achieve your aim/goal/end results.

Third Rule is to apply your means as efficiently and economically as you can, so that the Peace that results wasn't more expensive than it's worth.

 

[Stryder50]

Great. When are you enlisting?

When will you be a Patriot instead of a Traitor?
To humanity, not just the USA.

 

[Stryder50]

Can’t fix stupid.

You should know.
You've been trying that self-improvement for a long time now it seems.

 

[Independent thinker]

We get out of it by getting out of it.

And then what? Iran builds back up again, murders tens of thousands of more of their own people, and uses nukes against Israel and the US?

 

[Stryder50]

I don't disagree with much of what you've written, but I feel it needs to be pointed out that in this paragraph, you are essentially returning to the 'advisors' role we witnessed in Vietnam.

I'm still an advocate of breaking everything and then going home. <-- with our military.

As for CIA and other spooks on the ground fomenting an uprising, I think we'd be better served to let it go more ogranically and just keep the religious zealots weeded out and see what comes.

The only other viable option is to install the Shah's son as a temporary head of state until the revolution is complete and they are on their way back to rejoining the rest of the world. The problem with that is, "Will the Shah's son willingly step down at the end?"

My guess is not easily.

Shifting political leadership, goals, and directions made our efforts in Vietnam a "mess". Among other factors, topic for anothr thread, BTW.

The general system I mentioned has been used often, with good results for those applying it. Unfortunately some of those "good results" were by the "other team".

In the case of Iran, the populace is a bit unarmed and few have recent, prior military experience. Neither wise nor logical to turn loose in public as nothing more than rabble and unarmed, unguided mobs. That's how and why the Green Movement during Obama's charge got suppressed and how 30,000 Iranians were recently killed by the current theocracy.

 

[konradv]

And then what? Iran builds back up again, murders tens of thousands of more of their own people, and uses nukes against Israel and the US?

Calling Trump’s bluff. If we give in, we’ll be faced with this blackmail every few months, as long as Epstein is hanging over his head.

 

[Dorian Mode]

PART ONE:

Don't misunderstand the rep I gave you.
I do thank you for your thoughts and response, but don't agree with them.

WAR is response to violence, aggression, and assaults of one nation(group) upon another nation(group).
Had Poland not resisted Nazi Germany's invasion in Sept. 1939 with the Polish military there would have been no "war" between Germany and Poland. England and France's response might still have been the same.

My point is that history is filled with violence and aggressions by one group of humans upon another group of humans. If the target group doesn't resist, than they just become victims, willingly it might seem.
But if the target group resists violence with violence, then we call that war.

If you are the one that's been attacked, and if you win the war against your attacker, than war has served a good purpose and good results. If you lose against your attacker than the war was at least noble, but the results not so good for the target/one attacked. However the attacker and winner has just found war to yield good results and rewards.

The "Good" and/or "Bad" of War is a relative judgement it would seem.

Also, in many cases, especially recent decades(centuries ?), War is the result of failed politics.
...

Podkayne of Mars​

All page numbers from the mass market paperback edition published by Berkley Medallion Books, ISBN 0-425-03434-8, January 1970, 12th printing

• “So you say ‘Politics!’ as if it were a nasty word—and you think that settles it.”
  He sighed. “But you don’t understand. Politics is not evil; politics is the human race’s most magnificent achievement. When politics is good, it’s wonderful…and when politics is bad—well, it’s still pretty good.”
  “I guess I don’t understand,” I said slowly.
  “Think about it. Politics is just a name for the way we get things done...without fighting.We dicker and compromise and everybody thinks he has received a raw deal, but somehow after a tedious amount of talk we come up with some jury-rigged way to do it without getting anybody’s head bashed in. That’s politics. The only other way to settle a dispute is by bashing a few heads in...and that is what happens when one or both sides is no longer willing to dicker. That’s why I say politics is good even when it is bad…because the only alternative is force—and somebody gets hurt.”
  • Chapter 4 (p. 33)
  • Robert A. Heinlein - Wikiquote

Don't worry, I respect people who disagree with me and give me valid reasons why. I don't respect people who disagree with me and their only reason is But TRUMP!!!

I am much more anti-war than most people. I was definitely unhappy that Trump attacked Iran and thought he was a complete idiot. It took awhile to think it through that maybe he really had to other solution. I still have minor doubts. As a lifetime student of engineering and constantly looking for better solutions, I can easily say there is always a more intelligent solution to a problem than war. The problem is, some problems don't want to be solved. And the people we trust to solve problems are not engineers, they are politicians who are paid to create problems that make the rich richer. I have little patience for political solutions and often believe the best solution to a problem that doesn't want to be solved is to reduce it to dust and move on. I'm definitely not a politician nor do I think like one. I hope it doesn't come to my preferred solutions, but we have to live with the consequences if the political solutions are just more of kicking the can down the road.

 

[Stryder50]

My prior point was that we can take the Muslim out of the theocracy , but not the theocracy out of the Muslim Stryder

Our hx, especially in the last century or so , has been to trot the torch of freedom around this rock for the benefit of the oppressed, who time and again repackage their tyrants towards further oppression as soon as the dust clears from our troops

~S~

In some cases you are correct, in many others not so.
Not all Iranians are fundamentalist Muslims, or even Muslim by choice.
Iran was growing more secular up to 1979 and some of that still lingers, and the more the country opens to outside media, the more secular desires grow.

That torch trotting seems to have worked fairly well for former enemies of WWII ~ Germany, Japan, Italy.

 

[Captain Caveman]

Iran is not interested in peace talks: Iran war: Tehran sees no reason to talk with US

Our former friends have understandably told us to go to hell: European countries reject Trump’s call for help to reopen strait of Hormuz

Iran wants their pound of flesh for this, at least. They're not going to let us out of there without some pain.

I'm assuming that there's some kind of back-channel talking going on, but how else can we get of this mess? Can't Trump just declare some kind of victory and run? He can just make something up. That's what he does. Just keep saying "we won, we won".

Ideas?

The US is just gonna have to pound the heck out Iran's army etc.. and nuclear sites. Then time will tell with what happens next.

On hindsight, maybe collaborating with all NATO members would have been a good idea, but, that point has passed.

 

[Mac1958]

The US is just gonna have to pound the heck out Iran's army etc.. and nuclear sites. Then time will tell with what happens next.

On hindsight, maybe collaborating with all NATO members would have been a good idea, but, that point has passed.

I can see a situation where we pound on them long enough that the Guard begins to fall apart from within, but I don't know if that's possible. As mentioned elsewhere here, though, there are only so many missles and interceptors.

Iran has been planning for this for decades. I'm not sure we even planned at all. I was stunned when Trump said that no one expected them to attack other states. There's no doubt there was a war game for that, so obviously they didn't bother reading it. So we'll see.