CDZ How did we get to this point?

[Wyatt earp]

Most Americans have chosen Apathy as reflected by low voter turnout. This is nothing new. 2016 saw both parties hack up another Bush and Clinton faceoff which would have led to another elitist family dynasty either way that turned off the voters even more.
Conservatives and Independents like myself, wholeheartedly rejected Bush and supported Trump as an outsider forced to run in a two party system, while the left doubled down pushing a detestable candidate. Now they believe Biden, a lifelong career hack, is their solution. Biden only represents the status quo of business as usual.

Both parties are responsible for Trump getting elected as neither party really cares about Americans. That is how we got where we are.

This goes back to We The People too, because we're not interested enough to change the system under which these people operate. Their motivations are donations and re-election, and that's what animates their behaviors.

How can you when the left is trying to burn cops and civilians alive in Portland?

Maybe we can stay on topic and look at a bigger picture.

I am looking at the bigger picture, you have to say the facts, we are all watching the children in Portland

 

[Mac1958]

Perhaps, if things continue as they are, we, as a society, will come to the realization that a community of sentient beings doesn't actually need to be led.

We will stop putting stock in 'leaders' and learn to do for ourselves.

I wonder if our culture has changed in such a way that we have different priorities when we consider and support elected "leaders".

It sure does seem that we expect too much of them, and that we fear them too much if they're from the other party.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Question for Mac. Do you believe that Biden is in the game for us ego?

I think Biden is an old-fashioned, glad-handing, back-slapping career politician whose primary motivation here is saving the country from Trump and Trumpism. Understandable. It's also clear that he is in cognitive decline and has no more business running for President than does Trump. And that's the problem, which brings me back to my question.

In a perfect world, who would be your nominee?

 

[petro]

Their motivations are donations and re-election, and that's what animates their behaviors.

Until those two motivations are eliminated, that status quo will continue. There is no reason for any Congress critter to hold office for decades. No reason it should cost hundreds of millions to run for POTUS. The system has been bought off and many Americans of both parties feel helpless to change it and simply have checked out. When office holders can simply vote themselves benefits and pay raises as many are struggling it only shows the Republic was lost to monetary interests long ago.

 

[Mac1958]

In a perfect world, who would be your nominee?

Of the current crop, Yang, easily. And unfortunately he can't be veep, because he has a dick and the wrong skin color. Such is the state of the Democratic Party.

If the field were wide open, I don't know.

 

[Mac1958]

Their motivations are donations and re-election, and that's what animates their behaviors.

Until those two motivations are eliminated, that status quo will continue. There is no reason for any Congress critter to hold office for decades. No reason it should cost hundreds of millions to run for POTUS. The system has been bought off and many Americans of both parties feel helpless to change it and simply have checked out. When office holders can simply vote themselves benefits and pay raises as many are struggling it only shows the Republic was lost to monetary interests long ago.

I think we'd see better candidates and profoundly different behaviors if we had term limits and publicly-funded elections.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Their motivations are donations and re-election, and that's what animates their behaviors.

Until those two motivations are eliminated, that status quo will continue. There is no reason for any Congress critter to hold office for decades. No reason it should cost hundreds of millions to run for POTUS. The system has been bought off and many Americans of both parties feel helpless to change it and simply have checked out. When office holders can simply vote themselves benefits and pay raises as many are struggling it only shows the Republic was lost to monetary interests long ago.

If we take care of one....campaign finance reform....then the other...term limits....will occur naturally.

 

[TroglocratsRdumb]

Question for Mac. Do you believe that Biden is in the game for us ego?

I think Biden is an old-fashioned, glad-handing, back-slapping career politician whose primary motivation here is saving the country from Trump and Trumpism. Understandable. It's also clear that he is in cognitive decline and has no more business running for President than does Trump. And that's the problem, which brings me back to my question.

What is it that Trump is doing that is such a disaster?

 

[Mac1958]

Question for Mac. Do you believe that Biden is in the game for us ego?

I think Biden is an old-fashioned, glad-handing, back-slapping career politician whose primary motivation here is saving the country from Trump and Trumpism. Understandable. It's also clear that he is in cognitive decline and has no more business running for President than does Trump. And that's the problem, which brings me back to my question.

What is it that Trump is doing that is such a disaster?

Nothing that you would notice.

 

[TroglocratsRdumb]

Question for Mac. Do you believe that Biden is in the game for us ego?

I think Biden is an old-fashioned, glad-handing, back-slapping career politician whose primary motivation here is saving the country from Trump and Trumpism. Understandable. It's also clear that he is in cognitive decline and has no more business running for President than does Trump. And that's the problem, which brings me back to my question.

What is it that Trump is doing that is such a disaster?

Nothing that you would notice.

surely you can expound upon it
Trump is not far left or far right, he is in the center where you want

 

[Mac1958]

Question for Mac. Do you believe that Biden is in the game for us ego?

I think Biden is an old-fashioned, glad-handing, back-slapping career politician whose primary motivation here is saving the country from Trump and Trumpism. Understandable. It's also clear that he is in cognitive decline and has no more business running for President than does Trump. And that's the problem, which brings me back to my question.

What is it that Trump is doing that is such a disaster?

Nothing that you would notice.

surely you can expound upon it
Trump is not far left or far right, he is in the center where you want

As I said in the OP, this thread isn't for everyone. I'd like to stay on topic.

 

[LoneLaugher]

In a perfect world, who would be your nominee?

Of the current crop, Yang, easily. And unfortunately he can't be veep, because he has a dick and the wrong skin color. Such is the state of the Democratic Party.

If the field were wide open, I don't know.

You are really upset that the Democratic party, which owes its electoral success to black women, is committed to elevating a black woman to the nation's second highest office.

But...for shits and giggles....let's pretend that the field is wide open. Who is best suited to leading this nation?

 

[LoneLaugher]

Question for Mac. Do you believe that Biden is in the game for us ego?

I think Biden is an old-fashioned, glad-handing, back-slapping career politician whose primary motivation here is saving the country from Trump and Trumpism. Understandable. It's also clear that he is in cognitive decline and has no more business running for President than does Trump. And that's the problem, which brings me back to my question.

What is it that Trump is doing that is such a disaster?

Nothing that you would notice.

surely you can expound upon it
Trump is not far left or far right, he is in the center where you want

Trump is rudderless. You must know that his only concern is himself.

 

[Mac1958]

In a perfect world, who would be your nominee?

Of the current crop, Yang, easily. And unfortunately he can't be veep, because he has a dick and the wrong skin color. Such is the state of the Democratic Party.

If the field were wide open, I don't know.

You are really upset that the Democratic party, which owes its electoral success to black women, is committed to elevating a black woman to the nation's second highest office.

But...for shits and giggles....let's pretend that the field is wide open. Who is best suited to leading this nation?

If someone comes to mind, I'll let you know.

 

[LoneLaugher]

In a perfect world, who would be your nominee?

Of the current crop, Yang, easily. And unfortunately he can't be veep, because he has a dick and the wrong skin color. Such is the state of the Democratic Party.

If the field were wide open, I don't know.

You are really upset that the Democratic party, which owes its electoral success to black women, is committed to elevating a black woman to the nation's second highest office.

But...for shits and giggles....let's pretend that the field is wide open. Who is best suited to leading this nation?

If someone comes to mind, I'll let you know.

Zing!

 

[petro]

Their motivations are donations and re-election, and that's what animates their behaviors.

Until those two motivations are eliminated, that status quo will continue. There is no reason for any Congress critter to hold office for decades. No reason it should cost hundreds of millions to run for POTUS. The system has been bought off and many Americans of both parties feel helpless to change it and simply have checked out. When office holders can simply vote themselves benefits and pay raises as many are struggling it only shows the Republic was lost to monetary interests long ago.

I think we'd see better candidates and profoundly different behaviors if we had term limits and publicly-funded elections.

If we take care of one....campaign finance reform....then the other...term limits....will occur naturally.

Agree, but how to force an issue such as that through a political body that resists any effort to control their hold on power.
Both parties have a vested interest in protecting the status quo and thrive when Americans are deeply divided amongst themselves. Seems they are winning while the rest of us are screwed and not really represented.
I will be honest even knowing neither of you care for Trump. He is for many including myself, a huge middle finger to the current system as both parties hate him. I would have went third party if Bush would have been the chosen candidate in 2016. My disappointment is he didn't continue hammering the need for term limits as he did when running.
Regardless, "career politician" should not be an accepted term of our vocabulary.

 

[Mac1958]

Their motivations are donations and re-election, and that's what animates their behaviors.

Until those two motivations are eliminated, that status quo will continue. There is no reason for any Congress critter to hold office for decades. No reason it should cost hundreds of millions to run for POTUS. The system has been bought off and many Americans of both parties feel helpless to change it and simply have checked out. When office holders can simply vote themselves benefits and pay raises as many are struggling it only shows the Republic was lost to monetary interests long ago.

I think we'd see better candidates and profoundly different behaviors if we had term limits and publicly-funded elections.

If we take care of one....campaign finance reform....then the other...term limits....will occur naturally.

Agree, but how to force an issue such as that through a political body that resists any effort to control their hold on power.
Both parties have a vested interest in protecting the status quo and thrive when Americans are deeply divided amongst themselves. Seems they are winning while the rest of us are screwed and not really represented.
I will be honest even knowing neither of you care for Trump. He is for many including myself, a huge middle finger to the current system as both parties hate him. I would have went third party if Bush would have been the chosen candidate in 2016. My disappointment is he didn't continue hammering the need for term limits as he did when running.
Regardless, "career politician" should not be an accepted term of our vocabulary.

I think it goes back to us. The politicians can maintain the status quo because we don't care enough to vote them out.

I can understand Trump as a middle finger. I realize that a big part of his draw is an angry pushback to PC and Identity Politics (I even predicted it, although I underestimated the size of it.) But I really don't think that the American presidency is the right place for an ongoing, furious primal scream.

I'd really like to think we're better than this. But then I look at the alternative, and that leads me back to the OP.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Their motivations are donations and re-election, and that's what animates their behaviors.

Until those two motivations are eliminated, that status quo will continue. There is no reason for any Congress critter to hold office for decades. No reason it should cost hundreds of millions to run for POTUS. The system has been bought off and many Americans of both parties feel helpless to change it and simply have checked out. When office holders can simply vote themselves benefits and pay raises as many are struggling it only shows the Republic was lost to monetary interests long ago.

I think we'd see better candidates and profoundly different behaviors if we had term limits and publicly-funded elections.

If we take care of one....campaign finance reform....then the other...term limits....will occur naturally.

Agree, but how to force an issue such as that through a political body that resists any effort to control their hold on power.
Both parties have a vested interest in protecting the status quo and thrive when Americans are deeply divided amongst themselves. Seems they are winning while the rest of us are screwed and not really represented.
I will be honest even knowing neither of you care for Trump. He is for many including myself, a huge middle finger to the current system as both parties hate him. I would have went third party if Bush would have been the chosen candidate in 2016. My disappointment is he didn't continue hammering the need for term limits as he did when running.
Regardless, "career politician" should not be an accepted term of our vocabulary.

Trump is not a middle finger to the system. That’s a ruse that you fell for. He’s a grifter. The nation’s leading grifter. And he’d try to get a third term without hesitation if he were to win a second.

The Dems at least have campaign finance reform in their platform. They see that it is needed.

 

[petro]

Their motivations are donations and re-election, and that's what animates their behaviors.

Until those two motivations are eliminated, that status quo will continue. There is no reason for any Congress critter to hold office for decades. No reason it should cost hundreds of millions to run for POTUS. The system has been bought off and many Americans of both parties feel helpless to change it and simply have checked out. When office holders can simply vote themselves benefits and pay raises as many are struggling it only shows the Republic was lost to monetary interests long ago.

I think we'd see better candidates and profoundly different behaviors if we had term limits and publicly-funded elections.

If we take care of one....campaign finance reform....then the other...term limits....will occur naturally.

Agree, but how to force an issue such as that through a political body that resists any effort to control their hold on power.
Both parties have a vested interest in protecting the status quo and thrive when Americans are deeply divided amongst themselves. Seems they are winning while the rest of us are screwed and not really represented.
I will be honest even knowing neither of you care for Trump. He is for many including myself, a huge middle finger to the current system as both parties hate him. I would have went third party if Bush would have been the chosen candidate in 2016. My disappointment is he didn't continue hammering the need for term limits as he did when running.
Regardless, "career politician" should not be an accepted term of our vocabulary.

Trump is not a middle finger to the system. That’s a ruse that you fell for. He’s a grifter. The nation’s leading grifter. And he’d try to get a third term without hesitation if he were to win a second.

The Dems at least have campaign finance reform in their platform. They see that it is needed.

Yet they chose a lifetime career hack linked to the Clinton dynasty. And you accuse me of "falling for it?
The third term narrative fear, which would require an amendment from a body hostile to Trump, shows you fell for it.
Frankly, we have two turds running again, I just happen to think Trump isn't as ripe as Biden in the stink of the cesspool we call DC.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Their motivations are donations and re-election, and that's what animates their behaviors.

Until those two motivations are eliminated, that status quo will continue. There is no reason for any Congress critter to hold office for decades. No reason it should cost hundreds of millions to run for POTUS. The system has been bought off and many Americans of both parties feel helpless to change it and simply have checked out. When office holders can simply vote themselves benefits and pay raises as many are struggling it only shows the Republic was lost to monetary interests long ago.

I think we'd see better candidates and profoundly different behaviors if we had term limits and publicly-funded elections.

If we take care of one....campaign finance reform....then the other...term limits....will occur naturally.

Agree, but how to force an issue such as that through a political body that resists any effort to control their hold on power.
Both parties have a vested interest in protecting the status quo and thrive when Americans are deeply divided amongst themselves. Seems they are winning while the rest of us are screwed and not really represented.
I will be honest even knowing neither of you care for Trump. He is for many including myself, a huge middle finger to the current system as both parties hate him. I would have went third party if Bush would have been the chosen candidate in 2016. My disappointment is he didn't continue hammering the need for term limits as he did when running.
Regardless, "career politician" should not be an accepted term of our vocabulary.

Trump is not a middle finger to the system. That’s a ruse that you fell for. He’s a grifter. The nation’s leading grifter. And he’d try to get a third term without hesitation if he were to win a second.

The Dems at least have campaign finance reform in their platform. They see that it is needed.

Yet they chose a lifetime career hack linked to the Clinton dynasty. And you accuse me of "falling for it?
The third term narrative fear, which would require an amendment from a body hostile to Trump, shows you fell for it.
Frankly, we have two turds running again, I just happen to think Trump isn't as ripe as Biden in the stink of the cesspool we call DC.

That is a type of insanity. Can’t help you.