CDZ How did we get to this point?

[petro]

Their motivations are donations and re-election, and that's what animates their behaviors.

Until those two motivations are eliminated, that status quo will continue. There is no reason for any Congress critter to hold office for decades. No reason it should cost hundreds of millions to run for POTUS. The system has been bought off and many Americans of both parties feel helpless to change it and simply have checked out. When office holders can simply vote themselves benefits and pay raises as many are struggling it only shows the Republic was lost to monetary interests long ago.

I think we'd see better candidates and profoundly different behaviors if we had term limits and publicly-funded elections.

If we take care of one....campaign finance reform....then the other...term limits....will occur naturally.

Agree, but how to force an issue such as that through a political body that resists any effort to control their hold on power.
Both parties have a vested interest in protecting the status quo and thrive when Americans are deeply divided amongst themselves. Seems they are winning while the rest of us are screwed and not really represented.
I will be honest even knowing neither of you care for Trump. He is for many including myself, a huge middle finger to the current system as both parties hate him. I would have went third party if Bush would have been the chosen candidate in 2016. My disappointment is he didn't continue hammering the need for term limits as he did when running.
Regardless, "career politician" should not be an accepted term of our vocabulary.

Trump is not a middle finger to the system. That’s a ruse that you fell for. He’s a grifter. The nation’s leading grifter. And he’d try to get a third term without hesitation if he were to win a second.

The Dems at least have campaign finance reform in their platform. They see that it is needed.

Yet they chose a lifetime career hack linked to the Clinton dynasty. And you accuse me of "falling for it?
The third term narrative fear, which would require an amendment from a body hostile to Trump, shows you fell for it.
Frankly, we have two turds running again, I just happen to think Trump isn't as ripe as Biden in the stink of the cesspool we call DC.

That is a type of insanity. Can’t help you.

Didn't ask for your help. Just offered an explanation that you can't accept.
Insanity is pure hatred of a single individual.
Insanity is continuing the status quo only because of that hatred.
If Biden wins, I will accept the outcome while displeased about it, but won't hate the man for it.
Can you do the same if Trump wins?
I highly doubt it.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Looking at the "options" we have in November for President, I can't help but wonder how we got here (by the way, if you think your guy is a great option, this thread probably isn't for you). And full disclosure: It could definitely just be me, and maybe I've just become too cynical over years.

Anyway, for those of you who agree with me that we've really sunk in the quality of our "leaders" and "candidates", why do you think that is? Right now, I can only come up with two ideas:

First, with the advent of the internet and the proliferation of "news" sources (ha ha), I strongly suspect that our REAL "Best & Brightest" know to stay the hell out of politics, since anyone who jumps in will be immediately and viciously attacked in real life, online, and in every other possible way. Their families will be scrutinized to an absurd degree, and they and their families' lives may never be the same again. So we end up with people who just exist only on their egos, everything else be damned.

Second, maybe it's just me/us. Maybe as we age, our cynicism increases and people with big names just impress us less. Maybe the quality of our options hasn't increased much, and my frustration is more about being worn down over time by all the BS than it is about the quality of these people.

Your thoughts?

As already correctly noted: we’ve been doing “how did we get here” for as long as the Republic has been in existence.

Truman, for example, was very unpopular and ill-regarded during his time in office – his Gallup Poll approval rating in February of 1952 was 22 percent – today he’s considered to be among our greatest presidents.

The focus and concern shouldn’t be the quality of candidates but the rise and continued acceptance of the Imperial Presidency, that citizens’ rights and protected liberties have become the spoils of political war contrary to the rule of law, and the continued assault on the right to vote, where far too many in government seek to hobble that right when they should instead be working to facilitate it.

As was the case 100 years ago, America today is experiencing significant economic, cultural, and demographic change; and although this change is for the most part positive and beneficial, there are many who find this change frightening, those who work to oppose and stop positive, beneficial change, where their efforts to do so is the source of hyper-partisan conflict undermining and destabilizing the political process.

 

[petro]

Looking at the "options" we have in November for President, I can't help but wonder how we got here (by the way, if you think your guy is a great option, this thread probably isn't for you). And full disclosure: It could definitely just be me, and maybe I've just become too cynical over years.

Anyway, for those of you who agree with me that we've really sunk in the quality of our "leaders" and "candidates", why do you think that is? Right now, I can only come up with two ideas:

First, with the advent of the internet and the proliferation of "news" sources (ha ha), I strongly suspect that our REAL "Best & Brightest" know to stay the hell out of politics, since anyone who jumps in will be immediately and viciously attacked in real life, online, and in every other possible way. Their families will be scrutinized to an absurd degree, and they and their families' lives may never be the same again. So we end up with people who just exist only on their egos, everything else be damned.

Second, maybe it's just me/us. Maybe as we age, our cynicism increases and people with big names just impress us less. Maybe the quality of our options hasn't increased much, and my frustration is more about being worn down over time by all the BS than it is about the quality of these people.

Your thoughts?

As already correctly noted: we’ve been doing “how did we get here” for as long as the Republic has been in existence.

Truman, for example, was very unpopular and ill-regarded during his time in office – his Gallup Poll approval rating in February of 1952 was 22 percent – today he’s considered to be among our greatest presidents.

The focus and concern shouldn’t be the quality of candidates but the rise and continued acceptance of the Imperial Presidency, that citizens’ rights and protected liberties have become the spoils of political war contrary to the rule of law, and the continued assault on the right to vote, where far too many in government seek to hobble that right when they should instead be working to facilitate it.

As was the case 100 years ago, America today is experiencing significant economic, cultural, and demographic change; and although this change is for the most part positive and beneficial, there are many who find this change frightening, those who work to oppose and stop positive, beneficial change, where their efforts to do so is the source of hyper-partisan conflict undermining and destabilizing the political process.

What is considered beneficial is highly subjective.

 

[Wyatt earp]

In a perfect world, who would be your nominee?

Of the current crop, Yang, easily. And unfortunately he can't be veep, because he has a dick and the wrong skin color. Such is the state of the Democratic Party.

If the field were wide open, I don't know.

You are really upset that the Democratic party, which owes its electoral success to black women, is committed to elevating a black woman to the nation's second highest office.

But...for shits and giggles....let's pretend that the field is wide open. Who is best suited to leading this nation?

If someone comes to mind, I'll let you know.

Zing!

Zing what? We don't follow liberal slang,

Please explain

 

[Crepitus]

Looking at the "options" we have in November for President, I can't help but wonder how we got here (by the way, if you think your guy is a great option, this thread probably isn't for you). And full disclosure: It could definitely just be me, and maybe I've just become too cynical over years.

Anyway, for those of you who agree with me that we've really sunk in the quality of our "leaders" and "candidates", why do you think that is? Right now, I can only come up with two ideas:

First, with the advent of the internet and the proliferation of "news" sources (ha ha), I strongly suspect that our REAL "Best & Brightest" know to stay the hell out of politics, since anyone who jumps in will be immediately and viciously attacked in real life, online, and in every other possible way. Their families will be scrutinized to an absurd degree, and they and their families' lives may never be the same again. So we end up with people who just exist only on their egos, everything else be damned.

Second, maybe it's just me/us. Maybe as we age, our cynicism increases and people with big names just impress us less. Maybe the quality of our options hasn't increased much, and my frustration is more about being worn down over time by all the BS than it is about the quality of these people.

Your thoughts?

Fanaticism and a disconnect between main street and the the 1%.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Looking at the "options" we have in November for President, I can't help but wonder how we got here (by the way, if you think your guy is a great option, this thread probably isn't for you). And full disclosure: It could definitely just be me, and maybe I've just become too cynical over years.

Anyway, for those of you who agree with me that we've really sunk in the quality of our "leaders" and "candidates", why do you think that is? Right now, I can only come up with two ideas:

First, with the advent of the internet and the proliferation of "news" sources (ha ha), I strongly suspect that our REAL "Best & Brightest" know to stay the hell out of politics, since anyone who jumps in will be immediately and viciously attacked in real life, online, and in every other possible way. Their families will be scrutinized to an absurd degree, and they and their families' lives may never be the same again. So we end up with people who just exist only on their egos, everything else be damned.

Second, maybe it's just me/us. Maybe as we age, our cynicism increases and people with big names just impress us less. Maybe the quality of our options hasn't increased much, and my frustration is more about being worn down over time by all the BS than it is about the quality of these people.

Your thoughts?

As already correctly noted: we’ve been doing “how did we get here” for as long as the Republic has been in existence.

Truman, for example, was very unpopular and ill-regarded during his time in office – his Gallup Poll approval rating in February of 1952 was 22 percent – today he’s considered to be among our greatest presidents.

The focus and concern shouldn’t be the quality of candidates but the rise and continued acceptance of the Imperial Presidency, that citizens’ rights and protected liberties have become the spoils of political war contrary to the rule of law, and the continued assault on the right to vote, where far too many in government seek to hobble that right when they should instead be working to facilitate it.

As was the case 100 years ago, America today is experiencing significant economic, cultural, and demographic change; and although this change is for the most part positive and beneficial, there are many who find this change frightening, those who work to oppose and stop positive, beneficial change, where their efforts to do so is the source of hyper-partisan conflict undermining and destabilizing the political process.

Translation~ republicans ended slavery

 

[Dogmaphobe]

We have arrived at this point because our media has been leading us to it by encouraging tribalism instead of unity. It breaks us into tribes and pits us against one another while dealing in identity rather than ideals.

The media has been trying to insigate a race war for YEARS. It is finally starting to come to fruition.

 

[petro]

Looking at the "options" we have in November for President, I can't help but wonder how we got here (by the way, if you think your guy is a great option, this thread probably isn't for you). And full disclosure: It could definitely just be me, and maybe I've just become too cynical over years.

Anyway, for those of you who agree with me that we've really sunk in the quality of our "leaders" and "candidates", why do you think that is? Right now, I can only come up with two ideas:

First, with the advent of the internet and the proliferation of "news" sources (ha ha), I strongly suspect that our REAL "Best & Brightest" know to stay the hell out of politics, since anyone who jumps in will be immediately and viciously attacked in real life, online, and in every other possible way. Their families will be scrutinized to an absurd degree, and they and their families' lives may never be the same again. So we end up with people who just exist only on their egos, everything else be damned.

Second, maybe it's just me/us. Maybe as we age, our cynicism increases and people with big names just impress us less. Maybe the quality of our options hasn't increased much, and my frustration is more about being worn down over time by all the BS than it is about the quality of these people.

Your thoughts?

Fanaticism and a disconnect between main street and the the 1%.

In case you haven't noticed, a group of 1%'ers also runs the DFL. Yet they still couldn't buy the Presidency in 2016 despite spending half a billion dollars. There is a disconnect between the leadership of both parties and Main Street which is why half the population has given up on politics.
You also suffer from a fanaticism based on hatred of those who disagree with you.

 

[Crepitus]

Looking at the "options" we have in November for President, I can't help but wonder how we got here (by the way, if you think your guy is a great option, this thread probably isn't for you). And full disclosure: It could definitely just be me, and maybe I've just become too cynical over years.

Anyway, for those of you who agree with me that we've really sunk in the quality of our "leaders" and "candidates", why do you think that is? Right now, I can only come up with two ideas:

First, with the advent of the internet and the proliferation of "news" sources (ha ha), I strongly suspect that our REAL "Best & Brightest" know to stay the hell out of politics, since anyone who jumps in will be immediately and viciously attacked in real life, online, and in every other possible way. Their families will be scrutinized to an absurd degree, and they and their families' lives may never be the same again. So we end up with people who just exist only on their egos, everything else be damned.

Second, maybe it's just me/us. Maybe as we age, our cynicism increases and people with big names just impress us less. Maybe the quality of our options hasn't increased much, and my frustration is more about being worn down over time by all the BS than it is about the quality of these people.

Your thoughts?

Fanaticism and a disconnect between main street and the the 1%.

In case you haven't noticed, a group of 1%'ers also runs the DFL. Yet they still couldn't buy the Presidency in 2016 despite spending half a billion dollars. There is a disconnect between the leadership of both parties and Main Street which is why half the population has given up on politics.
You also suffer from a fanaticism based on hatred of those who disagree with you.

Where did I specify a party?

 

[LoneLaugher]

Their motivations are donations and re-election, and that's what animates their behaviors.

Until those two motivations are eliminated, that status quo will continue. There is no reason for any Congress critter to hold office for decades. No reason it should cost hundreds of millions to run for POTUS. The system has been bought off and many Americans of both parties feel helpless to change it and simply have checked out. When office holders can simply vote themselves benefits and pay raises as many are struggling it only shows the Republic was lost to monetary interests long ago.

I think we'd see better candidates and profoundly different behaviors if we had term limits and publicly-funded elections.

If we take care of one....campaign finance reform....then the other...term limits....will occur naturally.

Agree, but how to force an issue such as that through a political body that resists any effort to control their hold on power.
Both parties have a vested interest in protecting the status quo and thrive when Americans are deeply divided amongst themselves. Seems they are winning while the rest of us are screwed and not really represented.
I will be honest even knowing neither of you care for Trump. He is for many including myself, a huge middle finger to the current system as both parties hate him. I would have went third party if Bush would have been the chosen candidate in 2016. My disappointment is he didn't continue hammering the need for term limits as he did when running.
Regardless, "career politician" should not be an accepted term of our vocabulary.

Trump is not a middle finger to the system. That’s a ruse that you fell for. He’s a grifter. The nation’s leading grifter. And he’d try to get a third term without hesitation if he were to win a second.

The Dems at least have campaign finance reform in their platform. They see that it is needed.

Yet they chose a lifetime career hack linked to the Clinton dynasty. And you accuse me of "falling for it?
The third term narrative fear, which would require an amendment from a body hostile to Trump, shows you fell for it.
Frankly, we have two turds running again, I just happen to think Trump isn't as ripe as Biden in the stink of the cesspool we call DC.

That is a type of insanity. Can’t help you.

Didn't ask for your help. Just offered an explanation that you can't accept.
Insanity is pure hatred of a single individual.
Insanity is continuing the status quo only because of that hatred.
If Biden wins, I will accept the outcome while displeased about it, but won't hate the man for it.
Can you do the same if Trump wins?
I highly doubt it.

Not this time. No. Fuck him.

 

[LoneLaugher]

We have arrived at this point because our media has been leading us to it by encouraging tribalism instead of unity. It breaks us into tribes and pits us against one another while dealing in identity rather than ideals.

The media has been trying to insigate a race war for YEARS. It is finally starting to come to fruition.

How has the media bee trying to instigate a rave war?

 

[sartre play]

My guess (and its just a guess) is that Biden is not an egomaniac, He likes being in politics & he fit the profile that had the best chance, at this time. Calm & not screaming at or about some one every day. We never totally know what kind of president we will get before they take office but there are clues. the pool of choices is very slim. the money makes the picks. our choice is limited( if hoping to win) to two.

 

[JoeB131]

Of the current crop, Yang, easily. And unfortunately he can't be veep, because he has a dick and the wrong skin color. Such is the state of the Democratic Party.

If the field were wide open, I don't know.

Yang has never held elected office in his life, and his only background is in the private sector. And he has goofy ideas.

He couldn't even buy himself rep like Trump and Bloomberg and Perot.

Our businessmen Presidents - Hoover, Dubya Bush and Trump. Maybe it's time to stop electing businessmen.

 

[petro]

Their motivations are donations and re-election, and that's what animates their behaviors.

Until those two motivations are eliminated, that status quo will continue. There is no reason for any Congress critter to hold office for decades. No reason it should cost hundreds of millions to run for POTUS. The system has been bought off and many Americans of both parties feel helpless to change it and simply have checked out. When office holders can simply vote themselves benefits and pay raises as many are struggling it only shows the Republic was lost to monetary interests long ago.

I think we'd see better candidates and profoundly different behaviors if we had term limits and publicly-funded elections.

If we take care of one....campaign finance reform....then the other...term limits....will occur naturally.

Agree, but how to force an issue such as that through a political body that resists any effort to control their hold on power.
Both parties have a vested interest in protecting the status quo and thrive when Americans are deeply divided amongst themselves. Seems they are winning while the rest of us are screwed and not really represented.
I will be honest even knowing neither of you care for Trump. He is for many including myself, a huge middle finger to the current system as both parties hate him. I would have went third party if Bush would have been the chosen candidate in 2016. My disappointment is he didn't continue hammering the need for term limits as he did when running.
Regardless, "career politician" should not be an accepted term of our vocabulary.

Trump is not a middle finger to the system. That’s a ruse that you fell for. He’s a grifter. The nation’s leading grifter. And he’d try to get a third term without hesitation if he were to win a second.

The Dems at least have campaign finance reform in their platform. They see that it is needed.

Yet they chose a lifetime career hack linked to the Clinton dynasty. And you accuse me of "falling for it?
The third term narrative fear, which would require an amendment from a body hostile to Trump, shows you fell for it.
Frankly, we have two turds running again, I just happen to think Trump isn't as ripe as Biden in the stink of the cesspool we call DC.

That is a type of insanity. Can’t help you.

Didn't ask for your help. Just offered an explanation that you can't accept.
Insanity is pure hatred of a single individual.
Insanity is continuing the status quo only because of that hatred.
If Biden wins, I will accept the outcome while displeased about it, but won't hate the man for it.
Can you do the same if Trump wins?
I highly doubt it.

Not this time. No. Fuck him.

Not this time?

You never did. Which helps explain why we are at this point.

 

[petro]

Looking at the "options" we have in November for President, I can't help but wonder how we got here (by the way, if you think your guy is a great option, this thread probably isn't for you). And full disclosure: It could definitely just be me, and maybe I've just become too cynical over years.

Anyway, for those of you who agree with me that we've really sunk in the quality of our "leaders" and "candidates", why do you think that is? Right now, I can only come up with two ideas:

First, with the advent of the internet and the proliferation of "news" sources (ha ha), I strongly suspect that our REAL "Best & Brightest" know to stay the hell out of politics, since anyone who jumps in will be immediately and viciously attacked in real life, online, and in every other possible way. Their families will be scrutinized to an absurd degree, and they and their families' lives may never be the same again. So we end up with people who just exist only on their egos, everything else be damned.

Second, maybe it's just me/us. Maybe as we age, our cynicism increases and people with big names just impress us less. Maybe the quality of our options hasn't increased much, and my frustration is more about being worn down over time by all the BS than it is about the quality of these people.

Your thoughts?

Fanaticism and a disconnect between main street and the the 1%.

In case you haven't noticed, a group of 1%'ers also runs the DFL. Yet they still couldn't buy the Presidency in 2016 despite spending half a billion dollars. There is a disconnect between the leadership of both parties and Main Street which is why half the population has given up on politics.
You also suffer from a fanaticism based on hatred of those who disagree with you.

Where did I specify a party?

Oh please.
Everyone here knows who you represent. Don't play coy. You suffer from that same implicit hate towards one man and Anyone supporting him. It shows in every drive by post.

 

[JoeB131]

We have arrived at this point because our media has been leading us to it by encouraging tribalism instead of unity. It breaks us into tribes and pits us against one another while dealing in identity rather than ideals.

The media has been trying to insigate a race war for YEARS. It is finally starting to come to fruition.

The "Media" did this? Really.

Okay, let's look at that.

In 1968 Nixon did the Southern Strategy, with the intent of winning over Southern Democrats who no longer felt welcome in the Democratic Party after LBJ supported Civil Rights.

In 1980 Ronald Reagan whipped up the fears of Working Class Whites by talking about "Young Bucks" and "Welfare Queens".

In 1988, George H. Bush ran the notorious "Willie Horton" ad.

In 1990, Jesse Helms ran the "White Hands" ad.

And then you have Donald Trump, who ran on the Birther Issue and hating on Hispanics. It was literally the only thing that distinguished him from the other GOP candidates. When Colin Kapernick took a knee, Trump railed against him.

And now you are whining about a "Race War"? Really?

 

[candycorn]

Looking at the "options" we have in November for President, I can't help but wonder how we got here (by the way, if you think your guy is a great option, this thread probably isn't for you). And full disclosure: It could definitely just be me, and maybe I've just become too cynical over years.

Anyway, for those of you who agree with me that we've really sunk in the quality of our "leaders" and "candidates", why do you think that is? Right now, I can only come up with two ideas:

First, with the advent of the internet and the proliferation of "news" sources (ha ha), I strongly suspect that our REAL "Best & Brightest" know to stay the hell out of politics, since anyone who jumps in will be immediately and viciously attacked in real life, online, and in every other possible way. Their families will be scrutinized to an absurd degree, and they and their families' lives may never be the same again. So we end up with people who just exist only on their egos, everything else be damned.

Second, maybe it's just me/us. Maybe as we age, our cynicism increases and people with big names just impress us less. Maybe the quality of our options hasn't increased much, and my frustration is more about being worn down over time by all the BS than it is about the quality of these people.

Your thoughts?

I’m not sure the choices we had were so great in the past either but they were better than these two. Fer sure

 

[Crepitus]

Looking at the "options" we have in November for President, I can't help but wonder how we got here (by the way, if you think your guy is a great option, this thread probably isn't for you). And full disclosure: It could definitely just be me, and maybe I've just become too cynical over years.

Anyway, for those of you who agree with me that we've really sunk in the quality of our "leaders" and "candidates", why do you think that is? Right now, I can only come up with two ideas:

First, with the advent of the internet and the proliferation of "news" sources (ha ha), I strongly suspect that our REAL "Best & Brightest" know to stay the hell out of politics, since anyone who jumps in will be immediately and viciously attacked in real life, online, and in every other possible way. Their families will be scrutinized to an absurd degree, and they and their families' lives may never be the same again. So we end up with people who just exist only on their egos, everything else be damned.

Second, maybe it's just me/us. Maybe as we age, our cynicism increases and people with big names just impress us less. Maybe the quality of our options hasn't increased much, and my frustration is more about being worn down over time by all the BS than it is about the quality of these people.

Your thoughts?

Fanaticism and a disconnect between main street and the the 1%.

In case you haven't noticed, a group of 1%'ers also runs the DFL. Yet they still couldn't buy the Presidency in 2016 despite spending half a billion dollars. There is a disconnect between the leadership of both parties and Main Street which is why half the population has given up on politics.
You also suffer from a fanaticism based on hatred of those who disagree with you.

Where did I specify a party?

Oh please.
Everyone here knows who you represent. Don't play coy. You suffer from that same implicit hate towards one man and Anyone supporting him. It shows in every drive by post.

Just because you can't manage a separation like that doesn't mean I can't. Stop projecting.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Their motivations are donations and re-election, and that's what animates their behaviors.

Until those two motivations are eliminated, that status quo will continue. There is no reason for any Congress critter to hold office for decades. No reason it should cost hundreds of millions to run for POTUS. The system has been bought off and many Americans of both parties feel helpless to change it and simply have checked out. When office holders can simply vote themselves benefits and pay raises as many are struggling it only shows the Republic was lost to monetary interests long ago.

I think we'd see better candidates and profoundly different behaviors if we had term limits and publicly-funded elections.

If we take care of one....campaign finance reform....then the other...term limits....will occur naturally.

Agree, but how to force an issue such as that through a political body that resists any effort to control their hold on power.
Both parties have a vested interest in protecting the status quo and thrive when Americans are deeply divided amongst themselves. Seems they are winning while the rest of us are screwed and not really represented.
I will be honest even knowing neither of you care for Trump. He is for many including myself, a huge middle finger to the current system as both parties hate him. I would have went third party if Bush would have been the chosen candidate in 2016. My disappointment is he didn't continue hammering the need for term limits as he did when running.
Regardless, "career politician" should not be an accepted term of our vocabulary.

Trump is not a middle finger to the system. That’s a ruse that you fell for. He’s a grifter. The nation’s leading grifter. And he’d try to get a third term without hesitation if he were to win a second.

The Dems at least have campaign finance reform in their platform. They see that it is needed.

Yet they chose a lifetime career hack linked to the Clinton dynasty. And you accuse me of "falling for it?
The third term narrative fear, which would require an amendment from a body hostile to Trump, shows you fell for it.
Frankly, we have two turds running again, I just happen to think Trump isn't as ripe as Biden in the stink of the cesspool we call DC.

That is a type of insanity. Can’t help you.

Didn't ask for your help. Just offered an explanation that you can't accept.
Insanity is pure hatred of a single individual.
Insanity is continuing the status quo only because of that hatred.
If Biden wins, I will accept the outcome while displeased about it, but won't hate the man for it.
Can you do the same if Trump wins?
I highly doubt it.

Not this time. No. Fuck him.

Not this time?

You never did. Which helps explain why we are at this point.

Would you like to bet on that?

 

[LoneLaugher]

Their motivations are donations and re-election, and that's what animates their behaviors.

Until those two motivations are eliminated, that status quo will continue. There is no reason for any Congress critter to hold office for decades. No reason it should cost hundreds of millions to run for POTUS. The system has been bought off and many Americans of both parties feel helpless to change it and simply have checked out. When office holders can simply vote themselves benefits and pay raises as many are struggling it only shows the Republic was lost to monetary interests long ago.

I think we'd see better candidates and profoundly different behaviors if we had term limits and publicly-funded elections.

If we take care of one....campaign finance reform....then the other...term limits....will occur naturally.

Agree, but how to force an issue such as that through a political body that resists any effort to control their hold on power.
Both parties have a vested interest in protecting the status quo and thrive when Americans are deeply divided amongst themselves. Seems they are winning while the rest of us are screwed and not really represented.
I will be honest even knowing neither of you care for Trump. He is for many including myself, a huge middle finger to the current system as both parties hate him. I would have went third party if Bush would have been the chosen candidate in 2016. My disappointment is he didn't continue hammering the need for term limits as he did when running.
Regardless, "career politician" should not be an accepted term of our vocabulary.

Trump is not a middle finger to the system. That’s a ruse that you fell for. He’s a grifter. The nation’s leading grifter. And he’d try to get a third term without hesitation if he were to win a second.

The Dems at least have campaign finance reform in their platform. They see that it is needed.

Yet they chose a lifetime career hack linked to the Clinton dynasty. And you accuse me of "falling for it?
The third term narrative fear, which would require an amendment from a body hostile to Trump, shows you fell for it.
Frankly, we have two turds running again, I just happen to think Trump isn't as ripe as Biden in the stink of the cesspool we call DC.

That is a type of insanity. Can’t help you.

Didn't ask for your help. Just offered an explanation that you can't accept.
Insanity is pure hatred of a single individual.
Insanity is continuing the status quo only because of that hatred.
If Biden wins, I will accept the outcome while displeased about it, but won't hate the man for it.
Can you do the same if Trump wins?
I highly doubt it.

Not this time. No. Fuck him.

Not this time?

You never did. Which helps explain why we are at this point.

Would you like to bet on that?

Is the “reaction” a yes? How much?