CDZ How did we get to this point?

Mac1958

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Looking at the "options" we have in November for President, I can't help but wonder how we got here (by the way, if you think your guy is a great option, this thread probably isn't for you). And full disclosure: It could definitely just be me, and maybe I've just become too cynical over years.

Anyway, for those of you who agree with me that we've really sunk in the quality of our "leaders" and "candidates", why do you think that is? Right now, I can only come up with two ideas:

First, with the advent of the internet and the proliferation of "news" sources (ha ha), I strongly suspect that our REAL "Best & Brightest" know to stay the hell out of politics, since anyone who jumps in will be immediately and viciously attacked in real life, online, and in every other possible way. Their families will be scrutinized to an absurd degree, and they and their families' lives may never be the same again. So we end up with people who just exist only on their egos, everything else be damned.

Second, maybe it's just me/us. Maybe as we age, our cynicism increases and people with big names just impress us less. Maybe the quality of our options hasn't increased much, and my frustration is more about being worn down over time by all the BS than it is about the quality of these people.

Your thoughts?
 

Correll

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a big part of it, is the decline of our political class. trump was able to come in, because he could see that the gop had given up on representing the working class whites. they just, didn't think that was a way to win and they felt no sense of connection to those people to thus try, just because it was the right thing to do.


something similar seemed to happen on the left, with bernie. but the dems side of the political class managed to shut him out, and maintain control. this is worse. only a little bit, since the republicans did try it too.


there is more to it than this, but this is part of it.
 

LoneLaugher

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Well, I can’t help you if you believe that the two nominees for president are both unqualified for the job and are both incapable of representing our nation well. That’s not a point of view that can be supported with honest intent.

But allow me to address one of your theories. The idea that our best and brightest have abandoned politics and public service due to the growth of social media and the internet.

After 2016, I became personally involved in my local Dem party. The absolute fact is that, here in my community, dozens and dozens of highly capable people of very high character have raised their hands to become candidates for positions ranging from local environmental boards to US Congress.

That’s not the reason that you seek.
 

fncceo

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Perhaps, if things continue as they are, we, as a society, will come to the realization that a community of sentient beings doesn't actually need to be led.

We will stop putting stock in 'leaders' and learn to do for ourselves.
 

Muhammed

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Looking at the "options" we have in November for President, I can't help but wonder how we got here (by the way, if you think your guy is a great option, this thread probably isn't for you). And full disclosure: It could definitely just be me, and maybe I've just become too cynical over years.

Anyway, for those of you who agree with me that we've really sunk in the quality of our "leaders" and "candidates", why do you think that is? Right now, I can only come up with two ideas:

First, with the advent of the internet and the proliferation of "news" sources (ha ha), I strongly suspect that our REAL "Best & Brightest" know to stay the hell out of politics, since anyone who jumps in will be immediately and viciously attacked in real life, online, and in every other possible way. Their families will be scrutinized to an absurd degree, and they and their families' lives may never be the same again. So we end up with people who just exist only on their egos, everything else be damned.

Second, maybe it's just me/us. Maybe as we age, our cynicism increases and people with big names just impress us less. Maybe the quality of our options hasn't increased much, and my frustration is more about being worn down over time by all the BS than it is about the quality of these people.

Your thoughts?
#walkaway Mac. Just walk away.

THINK!
 
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JoeB131

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Looking at the "options" we have in November for President, I can't help but wonder how we got here (by the way, if you think your guy is a great option, this thread probably isn't for you). And full disclosure: It could definitely just be me, and maybe I've just become too cynical over years.

Anyway, for those of you who agree with me that we've really sunk in the quality of our "leaders" and "candidates", why do you think that is? Right now, I can only come up with two ideas:

First, with the advent of the internet and the proliferation of "news" sources (ha ha), I strongly suspect that our REAL "Best & Brightest" know to stay the hell out of politics, since anyone who jumps in will be immediately and viciously attacked in real life, online, and in every other possible way. Their families will be scrutinized to an absurd degree, and they and their families' lives may never be the same again. So we end up with people who just exist only on their egos, everything else be damned.

Second, maybe it's just me/us. Maybe as we age, our cynicism increases and people with big names just impress us less. Maybe the quality of our options hasn't increased much, and my frustration is more about being worn down over time by all the BS than it is about the quality of these people.

Your thoughts?
Actually, you keep acting like this is something "New". I remember these same kinds of complaints being made when it was Ford vs. Carter in 1976. (And neither is remembered as "Great" or even "Good" President today.)

A lot of the stuff being said about Biden right now was said about Ronald Reagan- he's too old, he's senile, he goes off on these tangents. Yet Reagan did just fine.

The only Anomaly here is Trump. Trump is someone who was unfit to be President, everyone knew he was unfit, but due to an anachronism and the unwillingness of one party to put country ahead of interests, he's still there despite half a dozen safeguards to keep something like him from happening.

Just thought of another one that should have been obvious. Maybe it's us. Maybe our politics are so tribal and screwed up that we elevate people who really wouldn't be elevated in a more civilized, thoughtful time.
Hey, Mac, when was this time, exactly? It certainly hasn't been in my lifetime. Maybe there was a time before Nixon when this happened, before he was forced to resign and the rules change, but my studies of history would indicate we've always been just as nasty and partisan.

You know what, buddy, I've been listening to you whine here for four years now on how the Democrats have become too partisan, too far to the left, too regressive... but at the end of the day, the rank and file passed by more radical candidates to pick the most milquetoast, vanilla guy in the room.. and you still aren't happy.

So maybe it is just you. What you want are two milquetoast parties that make the Stock Market happy and don't make waves on social issues... That's really not where most of the country is at.
 

Billy_Kinetta

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Looking at the "options" we have in November for President, I can't help but wonder how we got here (by the way, if you think your guy is a great option, this thread probably isn't for you). And full disclosure: It could definitely just be me, and maybe I've just become too cynical over years.

Anyway, for those of you who agree with me that we've really sunk in the quality of our "leaders" and "candidates", why do you think that is? Right now, I can only come up with two ideas:

First, with the advent of the internet and the proliferation of "news" sources (ha ha), I strongly suspect that our REAL "Best & Brightest" know to stay the hell out of politics, since anyone who jumps in will be immediately and viciously attacked in real life, online, and in every other possible way. Their families will be scrutinized to an absurd degree, and they and their families' lives may never be the same again. So we end up with people who just exist only on their egos, everything else be damned.

Second, maybe it's just me/us. Maybe as we age, our cynicism increases and people with big names just impress us less. Maybe the quality of our options hasn't increased much, and my frustration is more about being worn down over time by all the BS than it is about the quality of these people.

Your thoughts?
Both are true.
 

Votto

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Looking at the "options" we have in November for President, I can't help but wonder how we got here (by the way, if you think your guy is a great option, this thread probably isn't for you). And full disclosure: It could definitely just be me, and maybe I've just become too cynical over years.

Anyway, for those of you who agree with me that we've really sunk in the quality of our "leaders" and "candidates", why do you think that is? Right now, I can only come up with two ideas:

First, with the advent of the internet and the proliferation of "news" sources (ha ha), I strongly suspect that our REAL "Best & Brightest" know to stay the hell out of politics, since anyone who jumps in will be immediately and viciously attacked in real life, online, and in every other possible way. Their families will be scrutinized to an absurd degree, and they and their families' lives may never be the same again. So we end up with people who just exist only on their egos, everything else be damned.

Second, maybe it's just me/us. Maybe as we age, our cynicism increases and people with big names just impress us less. Maybe the quality of our options hasn't increased much, and my frustration is more about being worn down over time by all the BS than it is about the quality of these people.

Your thoughts?
Political leaders are a mirror to the society from which they came. As society wanes in moral character and intelligence, so to do their leaders. The US has become increasingly secular of the years with subsequent less and less moral fiber and the IQ level of Americans is decreasing, and so to do that of our leaders.

In addition, the democrat field was decimated in talent during the 2010 election due to ramming Obamacare down our throats. Both the Left and right hated it., but for different reasons. Never in US history had the democrat party been decimated like they were in that election, which purged much of their potential talent for future Presidential runs. Also, the democrat party has become more radicalized over the years, or at least, openly radicalized by the Left. This is a trend that had been going on for well over a century.

The GOP had become a party that virtually left democrats unopposed. At times they would slow their progress, but would not openly challenge their Marxist path nor the media and academia that made them flourish. It was to the point that voting for the GOP was akin to voting for the DNC. A good example of this is John McCain leading the charge to repeal and replace Obamacare. I remember when John McCain excoriated Obamacare, and I would show a particular YouTube moment where he did just that, it was impressive. Unfortunately, due to the Leftist nature of YouTube I can no longer find it to show you. It has been censored by the fascist Left. But my point is that McCain voted to repeal and replace Obamacare when Obama was their to veto the measure, and he ran on doing it again to get reelected. Then when Trump inexplicably won, he reversed course and voted against repealing and replacing Obamacare. Such is the nature of the GOP that led the country to Trump.
 

petro

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Most Americans have chosen Apathy as reflected by low voter turnout. This is nothing new. 2016 saw both parties hack up another Bush and Clinton faceoff which would have led to another elitist family dynasty either way that turned off the voters even more.
Conservatives and Independents like myself, wholeheartedly rejected Bush and supported Trump as an outsider forced to run in a two party system, while the left doubled down pushing a detestable candidate. Now they believe Biden, a lifelong career hack, is their solution. Biden only represents the status quo of business as usual.

Both parties are responsible for Trump getting elected as neither party really cares about Americans. That is how we got where we are.
 

bear513

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It all started with a public hair on a coke can, then the lefts hissy fit over bill Clinton, the right nominates bush Jr a clown so the left nominates a well spoken jiffy lube man from Kenya
 
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Mac1958

Mac1958

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Question for Mac. Do you believe that Biden is in the game for us ego?
I think Biden is an old-fashioned, glad-handing, back-slapping career politician whose primary motivation here is saving the country from Trump and Trumpism. Understandable. It's also clear that he is in cognitive decline and has no more business running for President than does Trump. And that's the problem, which brings me back to my question.
 
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Mac1958

Mac1958

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Most Americans have chosen Apathy as reflected by low voter turnout. This is nothing new. 2016 saw both parties hack up another Bush and Clinton faceoff which would have led to another elitist family dynasty either way that turned off the voters even more.
Conservatives and Independents like myself, wholeheartedly rejected Bush and supported Trump as an outsider forced to run in a two party system, while the left doubled down pushing a detestable candidate. Now they believe Biden, a lifelong career hack, is their solution. Biden only represents the status quo of business as usual.

Both parties are responsible for Trump getting elected as neither party really cares about Americans. That is how we got where we are.
This goes back to We The People too, because we're not interested enough to change the system under which these people operate. Their motivations are donations and re-election, and that's what animates their behaviors.
 

Correll

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Most Americans have chosen Apathy as reflected by low voter turnout. This is nothing new. 2016 saw both parties hack up another Bush and Clinton faceoff which would have led to another elitist family dynasty either way that turned off the voters even more.
Conservatives and Independents like myself, wholeheartedly rejected Bush and supported Trump as an outsider forced to run in a two party system, while the left doubled down pushing a detestable candidate. Now they believe Biden, a lifelong career hack, is their solution. Biden only represents the status quo of business as usual.

Both parties are responsible for Trump getting elected as neither party really cares about Americans. That is how we got where we are.

low voter turnout, is understandable as most states are completely safe.

someone is a completely safe state, has little motivation to go vote.
 

bear513

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Most Americans have chosen Apathy as reflected by low voter turnout. This is nothing new. 2016 saw both parties hack up another Bush and Clinton faceoff which would have led to another elitist family dynasty either way that turned off the voters even more.
Conservatives and Independents like myself, wholeheartedly rejected Bush and supported Trump as an outsider forced to run in a two party system, while the left doubled down pushing a detestable candidate. Now they believe Biden, a lifelong career hack, is their solution. Biden only represents the status quo of business as usual.

Both parties are responsible for Trump getting elected as neither party really cares about Americans. That is how we got where we are.
This goes back to We The People too, because we're not interested enough to change the system under which these people operate. Their motivations are donations and re-election, and that's what animates their behaviors.

How can you when the left is trying to burn cops and civilians alive in Portland?
 

bear513

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Most Americans have chosen Apathy as reflected by low voter turnout. This is nothing new. 2016 saw both parties hack up another Bush and Clinton faceoff which would have led to another elitist family dynasty either way that turned off the voters even more.
Conservatives and Independents like myself, wholeheartedly rejected Bush and supported Trump as an outsider forced to run in a two party system, while the left doubled down pushing a detestable candidate. Now they believe Biden, a lifelong career hack, is their solution. Biden only represents the status quo of business as usual.

Both parties are responsible for Trump getting elected as neither party really cares about Americans. That is how we got where we are.

low voter turnout, is understandable as most states are completely safe.

someone is a completely safe state, has little motivation to go vote.
People vote by moving to a safe state.
 

Correll

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Most Americans have chosen Apathy as reflected by low voter turnout. This is nothing new. 2016 saw both parties hack up another Bush and Clinton faceoff which would have led to another elitist family dynasty either way that turned off the voters even more.
Conservatives and Independents like myself, wholeheartedly rejected Bush and supported Trump as an outsider forced to run in a two party system, while the left doubled down pushing a detestable candidate. Now they believe Biden, a lifelong career hack, is their solution. Biden only represents the status quo of business as usual.

Both parties are responsible for Trump getting elected as neither party really cares about Americans. That is how we got where we are.

low voter turnout, is understandable as most states are completely safe.

someone is a completely safe state, has little motivation to go vote.
People vote by moving to a safe state.

a valid point.
 
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Mac1958

Mac1958

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Most Americans have chosen Apathy as reflected by low voter turnout. This is nothing new. 2016 saw both parties hack up another Bush and Clinton faceoff which would have led to another elitist family dynasty either way that turned off the voters even more.
Conservatives and Independents like myself, wholeheartedly rejected Bush and supported Trump as an outsider forced to run in a two party system, while the left doubled down pushing a detestable candidate. Now they believe Biden, a lifelong career hack, is their solution. Biden only represents the status quo of business as usual.

Both parties are responsible for Trump getting elected as neither party really cares about Americans. That is how we got where we are.
This goes back to We The People too, because we're not interested enough to change the system under which these people operate. Their motivations are donations and re-election, and that's what animates their behaviors.

How can you when the left is trying to burn cops and civilians alive in Portland?
Maybe we can stay on topic and look at a bigger picture.
 

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