how can someone be against school vouchers?

[blu]

With parents choice of schools is the state required to provide transportation to that new school location? ie busses?

within certain ranges like they do now.. if you live too close or too far they already don't pick you up. it won't change

 

[blu]

As I said before, vouchers are primarially a way to route taxpayer money to private enterprise.

in the case of schools private schools are leaps and bounds better

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Same reason some idiots are against tax cuts.

IGNORANCE.

 

[uscitizen]

As I said before, vouchers are primarially a way to route taxpayer money to private enterprise.

in the case of schools private schools are leaps and bounds better

some are not.

In my county we have a couple of smaller rural schools left. Their scores shame the larger city schools. The primarially republican led school board are going to close them and bus the children to new schools being built in town.

 

[blu]

I having been wondering about school vouchers for a bit and started to read up on it. I checked wikipedia first ( School voucher - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ) and then went on to some other sites, but they weren't that helpful.

To me vouchers seems like the best solution from an education and government spending standard. its no secret that if everyone had to pay for their kids education that all kids wouldn't be getting an education because some people simply cannot afford it or they have so many children with little income meaning some of the kids will be left without.

With that said, I don't see why the government (even state govs) need to run grammar & high schools. With vouchers the government is simply funding the tuition (and possible books/uniforms/lunches) of students instead of entire school systems. The cost benefit seems fairly obvious. From a quality of education standpoint, except for some select areas (north east the biggest), public schools really suck and are mostly wasting kids time anyway. Why not give the boost to private schools and with the extra boost of income allow them take in the influx of children? The existing school sites (along wit the buildings/upplies etc) could be sold to private companies who will then come in and start a private school in its place. Not only would this raise some temporary money for the states/fed gov but it would save millions/billions in the long run and the quality of education for the average student would jump by quite a bit.

The only argument I see against it is funding of tuition for religious schools. While I see the issue here, sane religious schools don't sit and indoctrinate kids all day and instead give them a very good education. I went to catholci school for 12 years and the education was excellent espcially compared to public schools in the area. Similarly, my stepson goes to a lutheran school even though we aren't lutheran b/c of the quality of education.

How could it be cheaper? What you're proposing is creating a middleman - which by definition means its more expensive. Private high schools cost as much per year as a mid-level private college. Do you really think that the government can afford to pay 35,000 dollars a year for vouchers FOR EVERY STUDENT IN AMERICA?

do you know how much it costs now to educate a kid who can afford nothing between school, books, counselors, food, uniform, insurance, etc? and I dont agree with free tutiton for people who make above X amount. They can get subsidized but not all

 

[blu]

They could always walk ten miles through the blinding snow storm, uphill both ways, like our parents did.

I would hope we would have developed a more realistic solution:

Equip them all with hang-gliders to fly back and forth to school?

I smell a Government Grant. Why don't you apply for a study?

Maybe one of the reasons kids are so fat these days is that they expected to carted around virtually everywhere they go.

Eh?

if they didn't the internet predators would get them

 

[uscitizen]

When I was a kid....



Actually I did go to a one room school, pot bellied stove, no running water, etc...

 

[Coyote]

As I said before, vouchers are primarially a way to route taxpayer money to private enterprise.

in the case of schools private schools are leaps and bounds better

Some private schools are better.

...and they are better primarily because they can pick and choose who they accept.

If I'm going to subsidize private education then they should accept everyone in their area, just like public schools.

 

[uscitizen]

As I said before, vouchers are primarially a way to route taxpayer money to private enterprise.

in the case of schools private schools are leaps and bounds better

Some private schools are better.

...and they are better primarily because they can pick and choose who they accept.

If I'm going to subsidize private education then they should accept everyone in their area, just like public schools.

Private schools also tend to have fewer pupils per class.
That makes a big difference in the quality of education.

 

[Coyote]

in the case of schools private schools are leaps and bounds better

Some private schools are better.

...and they are better primarily because they can pick and choose who they accept.

If I'm going to subsidize private education then they should accept everyone in their area, just like public schools.

Private schools also tend to have fewer pupils per class.
That makes a big difference in the quality of education.

It certainly does.

 

[uscitizen]

Prediction:

If charter/private schools catch on and pretty much replace public schools they will degenerate and have pretty much the same problems.

It is a matter of size and the problems related to that.

 

[Samson]

I'd support a voucher program in conjuction with the elimination of public schools altogether. But that isn't going to happen... ever.

The voucher programs currently proposed amount to nothing more than welfare for those that don't need it, which is why I'm opposed to them.

I could be persuaded to change my mind when I have to send my own kids to school. Pragmatism and my own bank account trump ideals every time.

The possibility that you might procreate is frightening enough, without having to remind us you might send your kids to school to school with ours.

The main arguement against vouchers is the transportation problem: How do you transport kids to schools once their parents pay the voucher?

Students in private schools and charter schools usually cannot depend on school busses to get to school. How will Urban Poor who get vouchers then transport their kid to various suburbs where more desireable schools exist? Public Transportation (if it exists)? You wanna send your prepubescent kids to schools using this option?

This is a false argument. The whole idea of these vouchers is that you can choose where to send your children. If you opt out of the cushy government supplied schools then the rest is on you. If you care about your child’s education then you will find a way to get them to that school. You cannot always get the exorbitant cash that many privatized schools charge but you sure can find a way to get your child to school.

"False Argument?"...Vs what? Your arguement? The one filled with qualifying "if you" that begins every thought?

How about this: If I give it even a moment's thought, then I realise you're ignorant.

THEORETICALLY, vouchers can be used to send your child to any school.

But EVERY school is not available to EVERY parent.

Therefore, in REALITY, parents can only choose schools that:

A. provide transportation for their kid, or
B. Are on the way to work in the morning AND keeps the kid until they get picked up after the parents work, or
C. One parent doesn't work, but spends the morings and afternoons transporting kids, and the rest of the day eating bon-bons and watching soaps.

Which of these works best for the AVERAGE AMERICAN FAMILY?

A. Most Americans send their kids to school on a bus.

So, the voucher system would resolve nothing: Regardless of which schools were best, MOST parents will continue to send kids to whichever school they can be most easily transported.

Vouchers will work great for the very few parents in categories "B" (rural) and "C" (suburbian soccer moms).

 

[bodecea]

As I said before, vouchers are primarially a way to route taxpayer money to private enterprise.

in the case of schools private schools are leaps and bounds better

I would imagine they would be since they can pick and choose their students.

 

[NYcarbineer]

I'd support a voucher program in conjuction with the elimination of public schools altogether. But that isn't going to happen... ever.

The voucher programs currently proposed amount to nothing more than welfare for those that don't need it, which is why I'm opposed to them.

I could be persuaded to change my mind when I have to send my own kids to school. Pragmatism and my own bank account trump ideals every time.

Yes, by all means, eliminate the public school system. After all, that's how all those other nations who are beating us academically did it, right?

Comparing the school systems of other nations to the USA is at least as ridiculous as eliminating all US public education.

Why? Because there is no global economy? Because Americans don't have to compete with other nations?

 

[uscitizen]

We are directly competing with other nations school systems now. H1B visa workers from India. Offshoring jobs to other nations.

 

[Samson]

Yes, by all means, eliminate the public school system. After all, that's how all those other nations who are beating us academically did it, right?

Comparing the school systems of other nations to the USA is at least as ridiculous as eliminating all US public education.

Why? Because there is no global economy? Because Americans don't have to compete with other nations?

Because the USA is unique, and every other nation is effected by different variables beyond their control.

One nation's education system cannot be compared to another's as if they were both caged rats in which one rat's environment can be changed, whilst the other's is not, then we may compare the two.

 

[Againsheila]

To clarify--Barack Obama is AGAINST school vouchers for smart kids that are born to poor parents--of getting them out of lousy schools to educate them.

Or didn't you know that?

A smart kid does fine in a public school. It is the less gifted individuals who need the discipline of a private school. Sorry I misunderstood your point lol

what does doing fine at a shit school matter? they are being taught stuf fin high school that private school kids learn in 5th grade. remember the new orleans girl who was valedictorian and got a 14 on her ACT. public school was a complete waste of her time, if she was in private school she would have a decent future.

Depends on the private school, my cousin graduated from a private school and got into a private university, she failed in her first year at the university and now is attending a community college to learn all the stuff she should have learned in that very expensive private school.

 

[Samson]

A smart kid does fine in a public school. It is the less gifted individuals who need the discipline of a private school. Sorry I misunderstood your point lol

what does doing fine at a shit school matter? they are being taught stuf fin high school that private school kids learn in 5th grade. remember the new orleans girl who was valedictorian and got a 14 on her ACT. public school was a complete waste of her time, if she was in private school she would have a decent future.

Depends on the private school, my cousin graduated from a private school and got into a private university, she failed in her first year at the university and now is attending a community college to learn all the stuff she should have learned in that very expensive private school.

This is the story for a LOT of kids that are "smart."

Schools (public and private) cater more to parents than they do to students. Parents, naturally, like to think their kids are smart. When a kid is on the honor role, and is taking all the college prep courses, parents believe their kid is "smart."

Of course, if the kid makes a "C," then the school, and the teacher is "stupid."

To avoid this lable, and the hassle of dealing with pissed-off parents, teachers will give the kid a "B." Teachers that do otherwise will find themselves teaching fewer, and fewer students whose parents give a damn about their grades (usually the "Good" kids) and more and more students whose parents could give a shit (usually the "Bad" kids).

 

[uscitizen]

what does doing fine at a shit school matter? they are being taught stuf fin high school that private school kids learn in 5th grade. remember the new orleans girl who was valedictorian and got a 14 on her ACT. public school was a complete waste of her time, if she was in private school she would have a decent future.

Depends on the private school, my cousin graduated from a private school and got into a private university, she failed in her first year at the university and now is attending a community college to learn all the stuff she should have learned in that very expensive private school.

This is the story for a LOT of kids that are "smart."

Schools (public and private) cater more to parents than they do to students. Parents, naturally, like to think their kids are smart. When a kid is on the honor role, and is taking all the college prep courses, parents believe their kid is "smart."

Of course, if the kid makes a "C," then the school, and the teacher is "stupid."

To avoid this lable, and the hassle of dealing with pissed-off parents, teachers will give the kid a "B." Teachers that do otherwise will find themselves teaching fewer, and fewer students whose parents give a damn about their grades (usually the "Good" kids) and more and more students whose parents could give a shit (usually the "Bad" kids).

Yep a business does not want to piss off the customers.

 

[Oddball]

As I said before, vouchers are primarially a way to route taxpayer money to private enterprise.

in the case of schools private schools are leaps and bounds better

I would imagine they would be since they can pick and choose their students.

In a truly free market for education, that would send a signal to entrepreneurs that more supply is needed.

And on that note, has anyone ever noticed that it's only the gubmint sector that complains about having too many customers?