how can someone be against school vouchers?

[uscitizen]

Toronado3800
I'm pretty happy w/o vouchers. Force folks to take part in their local school districts instead of shopping around reaping the benefits of others then bailing.

More like force people to attend AND support a failing school whether or not it is addressing the issues or just falling into ruin.

Yeah, pretty much like with our political parties.

 

[Oddball]

Dude
Make it the responsibility of the state and communities to find ways to educate the indigent.

Turning schooling into a welfare program for the middle class has proven to be a bust and it's high time to junk the current top-down model.

Bullshit. We are where we are today because we have made it an issue to educate EVERYONE.

Well, you're failing miserably, as evidenced by the proliferation of remedial studies courses for college freshmen.

We are not slipping because we have educated people, we are slipping because others are getting it and have started to educate their people MORE.

Really? Where have the grade level standards for reading, math and general sciences been raised in relation?

Gotta link?

 

[Samson]

Vouchers would fail for many reasons. Thinking long-term though, if everyone wants to send their kids to the same school, what do you think is going to happen to that one school and the other ones?

I think the successful school will be able to franchise itself.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Riiiiight.

You invoke the preamble of the Constitution, fail to point to any Article 1 power therein which authorizes the feds to involve themselves in education, I call your bullshit, which subsequently makes me "an elitist who cares very little for the lower class".

I don't know how I missed the obvious connections.

It doesn't have to specify if it is done for the good of the common wealth. That's my point. Strict interpretation is foolish.

So, you can't point to any specific power granted to the feds to run schools.

I thought not.

It's a de facto power supported by its existence. If was unconstitutional it could have been challenged and declared unconstitutional years ago.

 

[Oddball]

People get away with murder all the time....That doesn't suddenly make it legal if you don't get caught and prosecuted.

Twit.

 

[Samson]

It doesn't have to specify if it is done for the good of the common wealth. That's my point. Strict interpretation is foolish.

So, you can't point to any specific power granted to the feds to run schools.

I thought not.

It's a de facto power supported by its existence. If was unconstitutional it could have been challenged and declared unconstitutional years ago.

The Feds only "Run" The Air Force Academy, The Naval Academy, and West Point.

The feds dole out money to states and grants to local school districts to support their education systems. How much money a state or local district receives depends mostly on the number of students who qualify for Free and Reduced Meals (Tiltle I).

Although they SAID that they would give state and local governments funding for students who qualify for Special Education, only a small portion of federal money goes to support these federal mandates.

As with all state statues, those regarding education cannot conflict with Federal Statutes, so the "de facto power" of the Federal Government applies to ALL State/Locally administered institutions, including their schools, police forces, etc., etc.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

It's the same folks that are against YOU paying less taxes...

Now, with that said, every year we spend more $$ per pupil and every year we are told we need to spend more and every year it gets worse. Meanwhile, private/parochial schools educate better and do it for less. Obviously, they're way off track.

 

[uscitizen]

Drop athletics and such things and education costs would drop and maybe schools would concentrate more on education?

Most private and parochial schools seem to be that way.

 

[Samson]

Drop athletics and such things and education costs would drop and maybe schools would concentrate more on education?.

******* Commie!!!

 

[NYcarbineer]

So, you can't point to any specific power granted to the feds to run schools.

I thought not.

It's a de facto power supported by its existence. If was unconstitutional it could have been challenged and declared unconstitutional years ago.

The Feds only "Run" The Air Force Academy, The Naval Academy, and West Point.

The feds dole out money to states and grants to local school districts to support their education systems. How much money a state or local district receives depends mostly on the number of students who qualify for Free and Reduced Meals (Tiltle I).

Although they SAID that they would give state and local governments funding for students who qualify for Special Education, only a small portion of federal money goes to support these federal mandates.

As with all state statues, those regarding education cannot conflict with Federal Statutes, so the "de facto power" of the Federal Government applies to ALL State/Locally administered institutions, including their schools, police forces, etc., etc.

The Federal government runs schools for military dependents overseas that also accept some civilian government employees' dependents.

The point was, if it's unconstitutional for the Federal government to be involved in education it has to be challenged and ruled unconstitutional.

 

[bodecea]

So, some of you actually admire Mexico's school system?

 

[NYcarbineer]

People get away with murder all the time....That doesn't suddenly make it legal if you don't get caught and prosecuted.

Twit.

Your analogy sucks. We have laws against murder. We don't have Supreme Court ruling against Federal involvement in education.

 

[manifold]

I'd support a voucher program in conjuction with the elimination of public schools altogether. But that isn't going to happen... ever.

The voucher programs currently proposed amount to nothing more than welfare for those that don't need it, which is why I'm opposed to them.

I could be persuaded to change my mind when I have to send my own kids to school. Pragmatism and my own bank account trump ideals every time.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

but private run schools, except in a few places as mentioned, are thousands of time better in both education, electives, and after school activities

Private and Public schools are incomparible. Private schools can refuse admission to students that have a history of behavioral issues or students with special needs they can not accomidate. Public schools have to take, and try to meet, the needs of everyone.

I'm divided on the voucher issue. I am planning to send my son to private school as the local public education is terrible. However, starving out the area school won't improve education. In fact, it is likely to cause the education levels here to slip even more and cause the community to degrade even faster.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

...but it is the best interest of the general population of the country to have public schools.

You should add quality into that sentence up there. My family was below the poverty line, but the area school was very very good. Because of that I now have an education, a job, and a better quality of life than my parents. I don't live on welfare and I can provide for my son's education, something my parents could not do.

It is in the community's best interest to have educational opportunities available so that those who want to better themselves can.

 

[Samson]

So, some of you actually admire Mexico's school system?

Does Mexico HAVE a school system?

Mexico has its admirable qualities: Mexico has some nice beaches, and produces some good beer and tequilla. I also like Mexican Food.

 

[Samson]

I'd support a voucher program in conjuction with the elimination of public schools altogether. But that isn't going to happen... ever.

The voucher programs currently proposed amount to nothing more than welfare for those that don't need it, which is why I'm opposed to them.

I could be persuaded to change my mind when I have to send my own kids to school. Pragmatism and my own bank account trump ideals every time.

The possibility that you might procreate is frightening enough, without having to remind us you might send your kids to school to school with ours.

The main arguement against vouchers is the transportation problem: How do you transport kids to schools once their parents pay the voucher?

Students in private schools and charter schools usually cannot depend on school busses to get to school. How will Urban Poor who get vouchers then transport their kid to various suburbs where more desireable schools exist? Public Transportation (if it exists)? You wanna send your prepubescent kids to schools using this option?

 

[Oddball]

They could always walk ten miles through the blinding snow storm, uphill both ways, like our parents did.

 

[rightwinger]

I oppose school vouchers

If I don't like my police department...do I get a voucher to hire another?
If I don't like how my public works department plows my street....can I get a voucher to hire a private company?
If the fire department is too slow....can I get a voucher to hire a private company?

 

[Samson]

They could always walk ten miles through the blinding snow storm, uphill both ways, like our parents did.

I would hope we would have developed a more realistic solution:

Equip them all with hang-gliders to fly back and forth to school?

I smell a Government Grant. Why don't you apply for a study?