Honest Questions For Religious Conservatives About LBGT

[Missourian]

You have the right to own a gun, that doesn't come with the right to murder people with it.

You have a right to practice your religion, that doesn't come with the right to break other laws in the process.

What law am I violating?

Dhaaaaa...Laws against discrimination, dude!!

What laws against discrimination? Show me.

Wife is sending me to town, be back later.

I live in Missouri...show me what law is being broken.

 

[bodecea]

I'm liberal more than anything else, but I like to reach out and try to understand the POV of conservatives so I don't think y'all are one big lump.

In light of the White House's directive reversing anti-discrimination employment rules for gay folks, I was hoping some religious conservatives could help me understand by answering a few questions. (Or, since I know this site, call me an idiotic libturd who hates America.)

1. I understand that the Bible says homosexual sex is a sin, but what about other sins like lying, adultery, or re-marrying? Would you refuse to hire someone who had violated the Commandments?

2. It seems to me that Christ spent most of his time with sinners. How do you reconcile forgiveness and love that Jesus preached with wanting to keep your work free from sinners?

3. Do you feel that hiring someone gay violates your faith? If so, why?

(NOTE: I am not addressing the whole "gay wedding cake" clusterfuck. This is about supporting the White House saying employers can fire or refuse to hire someone based on religion.)

As usual, I'll give respect when respect is shown. Thanks!

Needless to say you’ll get no honest responses from the most on the religious right – you’ll get only lies, ignorance, and fallacies.

It's almost as if they too have permission from their religion to lie.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Ok so a mass murderer is forgiven as long as he repents before he dies? But someone who is gay and follows his heart shouldn't be forgiven? You would rather hire a repentant mass murderer then a unrepentant gay person? Sorry to put it in those terms but that is the logical conclusion to that argument.

I hate religion and even I can see how you are ignoring how is failure to repent (stop practicing homosexuality) disqualifies him from working at a religious institution that abhors the practice.

At the same time, religion has all sorts of stupid-ass rules that make no fucking sense and are designed to control the masses and maintain power structures

And, Jesus was black.

Ever been to Israel? Not a whole lot of black people around.

 

[bodecea]

Ok so a mass murderer is forgiven as long as he repents before he dies? But someone who is gay and follows his heart shouldn't be forgiven? You would rather hire a repentant mass murderer then a unrepentant gay person? Sorry to put it in those terms but that is the logical conclusion to that argument.

I hate religion and even I can see how you are ignoring how is failure to repent (stop practicing homosexuality) disqualifies him from working at a religious institution that abhors the practice.

At the same time, religion has all sorts of stupid-ass rules that make no fucking sense and are designed to control the masses and maintain power structures

And, Jesus was black.

Ever been to Israel? Not a whole lot of black people around.

Not even the Ethiopian Jews?

 

[NYcarbineer]

You are not forced to operate a secular business that would require you by law to violate your religious beliefs.

Define a "secular" business.

A business that cannot be claimed as primarily a religious institution.

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

You have the right to own a gun, that doesn't come with the right to murder people with it.

You have a right to practice your religion, that doesn't come with the right to break other laws in the process.

What law am I violating?

Dhaaaaa...Laws against discrimination, dude!!

What laws against discrimination? Show me.

Wife is sending me to town, be back later.

I live in Missouri...show me what law is being broken.

OK The Missouri law Against Discrimination does not include sexual orientation or gender identity. Good for you! In quite a few other states it does. But having the legal right does not mean that you have the moral right to discriminate and pervert the meaning of religious freedom.

Furthermore, despite the recent DOJ policy change by the bigot Sessions...

Five federal appeals courts and multiple district courts have found that Title VII’s sex discrimination prohibition covers transgender working people. According to the courts, transgender discrimination is sex discrimination. In 2014, Attorney General Eric Holder — an Obama appointee — issued a memo making this interpretation official policy at the DOJ. It is this policy that Sessions overturned. We Need Protection From Dangerous Men Like Jeff Sessions

 

[Leo123]

The OP said.....(NOTE: I am not addressing the whole "gay wedding cake" clusterfuck. This is about supporting the White House saying employers can fire or refuse to hire someone based on religion.)

I asked for a link in post #10....still waiting........looks like

 

[deltex1]

I'm liberal more than anything else, but I like to reach out and try to understand the POV of conservatives so I don't think y'all are one big lump.

In light of the White House's directive reversing anti-discrimination employment rules for gay folks, I was hoping some religious conservatives could help me understand by answering a few questions. (Or, since I know this site, call me an idiotic libturd who hates America.)

1. I understand that the Bible says homosexual sex is a sin, but what about other sins like lying, adultery, or re-marrying? Would you refuse to hire someone who had violated the Commandments?

2. It seems to me that Christ spent most of his time with sinners. How do you reconcile forgiveness and love that Jesus preached with wanting to keep your work free from sinners?

3. Do you feel that hiring someone gay violates your faith? If so, why?

(NOTE: I am not addressing the whole "gay wedding cake" clusterfuck. This is about supporting the White House saying employers can fire or refuse to hire someone based on religion.)

As usual, I'll give respect when respect is shown. Thanks!

It's not about religion as much as its about abnormal people. Would you want a social worker who is counseling your kids to show up one week as a man...and the next week as a woman?

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

I'm liberal more than anything else, but I like to reach out and try to understand the POV of conservatives so I don't think y'all are one big lump.

In light of the White House's directive reversing anti-discrimination employment rules for gay folks, I was hoping some religious conservatives could help me understand by answering a few questions. (Or, since I know this site, call me an idiotic libturd who hates America.)

1. I understand that the Bible says homosexual sex is a sin, but what about other sins like lying, adultery, or re-marrying? Would you refuse to hire someone who had violated the Commandments?

2. It seems to me that Christ spent most of his time with sinners. How do you reconcile forgiveness and love that Jesus preached with wanting to keep your work free from sinners?

3. Do you feel that hiring someone gay violates your faith? If so, why?

(NOTE: I am not addressing the whole "gay wedding cake" clusterfuck. This is about supporting the White House saying employers can fire or refuse to hire someone based on religion.)

As usual, I'll give respect when respect is shown. Thanks!

It's not about religion as much as its about abnormal people. Would you want a social worker who is counseling your kids to show up one week as a man...and the next week as a woman?

What the fuck are you talking about? Do you know anything at all about the transgender issue....if that is, in fact what you're alluding to.?? Ignorance is abnormal although not as much as it should be.

 

[SmokeALib]

The normalization of sexual perversion and immorality. Sick.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Ok so a mass murderer is forgiven as long as he repents before he dies? But someone who is gay and follows his heart shouldn't be forgiven? You would rather hire a repentant mass murderer then a unrepentant gay person? Sorry to put it in those terms but that is the logical conclusion to that argument.

I hate religion and even I can see how you are ignoring how is failure to repent (stop practicing homosexuality) disqualifies him from working at a religious institution that abhors the practice.

At the same time, religion has all sorts of stupid-ass rules that make no fucking sense and are designed to control the masses and maintain power structures

And, Jesus was black.

Ever been to Israel? Not a whole lot of black people around.

Not even the Ethiopian Jews?

Nope. Spent a great deal of time there. Not too many.

 

[forkup]

Ok so a mass murderer is forgiven as long as he repents before he dies? But someone who is gay and follows his heart shouldn't be forgiven? You would rather hire a repentant mass murderer then a unrepentant gay person? Sorry to put it in those terms but that is the logical conclusion to that argument.

You invoked the teachings of Jesus on forgiveness...and I informed you that you were mistaken.

My religion doesn't require that I hire, or refuse to hire either. But the government should also not force me to hire either. Jesus chose to eat with sinners, and he didn't rebuke those who chose not to do so. A person with deeply held religious convictions should not be forced by the government to embrace sin, or be forced to invite sin into their business. Whether that is paying for abortion or contraception, or hiring people who engage in behavior the owners religious beliefs codify as sinful.

That is religious freedom.

It's not like we just made this stuff up last year...it has been a part of our religion for millenia. The prohibitions against homosexuality are recorded in the very first book of the Bible...Genesis 19:4-5 and continue through out the Old Testament and into the New...Jesus reiterated the proclamations that God had made them male and female...and that a man should leave his father and mother and be joined with his wife. There isn't any room for discussion in that statement.

So you are saying that its alright to not follow the example of Jesus Christ who as you said, chose to eat with sinners. Because in the end he doesn't judge me for doing the right thing? This is the ultimate religious catch all. Hey I'll be forgiven as long as I repent at the end. It's also the reason I think the poster asked that question. By the way yes he did rebuke being religious over being compassionate. Its like I said the whole premise of the parable of the Good Samaritan.

 

[forkup]

Ok so a mass murderer is forgiven as long as he repents before he dies? But someone who is gay and follows his heart shouldn't be forgiven? You would rather hire a repentant mass murderer then a unrepentant gay person? Sorry to put it in those terms but that is the logical conclusion to that argument.

You invoked the teachings of Jesus on forgiveness...and I informed you that you were mistaken.

My religion doesn't require that I hire, or refuse to hire either. But the government should also not force me to hire either. Jesus chose to eat with sinners, and he didn't rebuke those who chose not to do so. A person with deeply held religious convictions should not be forced by the government to embrace sin, or be forced to invite sin into their business. Whether that is paying for abortion or contraception, or hiring people who engage in behavior the owners religious beliefs codify as sinful.

That is religious freedom.

It's not like we just made this stuff up last year...it has been a part of our religion for millenia. The prohibitions against homosexuality are recorded in the very first book of the Bible...Genesis 19:4-5 and continue through out the Old Testament and into the New...Jesus reiterated the proclamations that God had made them male and female...and that a man should leave his father and mother and be joined with his wife. There isn't any room for discussion in that statement.

Can I ask what your position is on the role of the government, cause what you are saying is that the government hasn't got the right to protect it's citizens from discrimination as long as that discrimination happens for religious reasons?

 

[Dr Grump]

wjmacguffin ... Let me turn that around for you...should liars and adulterers (those who remarry would also be classified as adulterous) be given special protections under the law?

Depends. Are they discriminated against?

 

[jc456]

Are those sinners running around and are in your face yelling "I am an adulterer" or "I am a liar?" If your answer is no to those then you already have your answer to your question. I did not address re-marrying because it has different criteria.

To your #2 and #3 questions the answer is the same. Quit the "in your face" attitude and everything will be just fine.

So your stance is as long as your sexual preference is a secret I have no problem? To 2 and 3 you didn't answer at all. How do you reconcile Jesus teachings concerning forgiveness with refusing to hire gay people? That was the question.

Simple, the Bible is bigger than Jesus

That opens a whole other can of worms. If you say I'm allowed to ignore those teachings that don't fit your political narrative you just admitted to use religion as a cover for them. Kind of the point of the question but glad to have it confirmed.

The Bible is the Bible . It contains many passages. Read it

Sure and a lot of those passage haven't weathered the ages very well. The Old testament is full of passages that are downright immoral in today's terms so does and as you admitted you feel free to ignore those teachings that you don't agree with. What's more the D.O.J made it very clear that people discriminating other people on the bases of religion is perfectly valid.

 

[jc456]

Are those sinners running around and are in your face yelling "I am an adulterer" or "I am a liar?" If your answer is no to those then you already have your answer to your question. I did not address re-marrying because it has different criteria.

To your #2 and #3 questions the answer is the same. Quit the "in your face" attitude and everything will be just fine.

So your stance is as long as your sexual preference is a secret I have no problem? To 2 and 3 you didn't answer at all. How do you reconcile Jesus teachings concerning forgiveness with refusing to hire gay people? That was the question.

Simple, the Bible is bigger than Jesus

That opens a whole other can of worms. If you say I'm allowed to ignore those teachings that don't fit your political narrative you just admitted to use religion as a cover for them. Kind of the point of the question but glad to have it confirmed.

The Bible is the Bible . It contains many passages. Read it

The Constitution is the Constitution. It contains many passages. Read it

And those passages back me! And?

 

[jc456]

Why would anyone mention their sexual preference to an employer?

This misses the point.

The correct question is why should a gay employee fear his employer become aware of his sexual orientation.

The answer is, of course, he shouldn’t.

Unfortunately in much of America controlled by conservatives this is a very real fear.

Is it protected? Link

 

[blackhawk]

I'm liberal more than anything else, but I like to reach out and try to understand the POV of conservatives so I don't think y'all are one big lump.

In light of the White House's directive reversing anti-discrimination employment rules for gay folks, I was hoping some religious conservatives could help me understand by answering a few questions. (Or, since I know this site, call me an idiotic libturd who hates America.)

1. I understand that the Bible says homosexual sex is a sin, but what about other sins like lying, adultery, or re-marrying? Would you refuse to hire someone who had violated the Commandments?

2. It seems to me that Christ spent most of his time with sinners. How do you reconcile forgiveness and love that Jesus preached with wanting to keep your work free from sinners?

3. Do you feel that hiring someone gay violates your faith? If so, why?

(NOTE: I am not addressing the whole "gay wedding cake" clusterfuck. This is about supporting the White House saying employers can fire or refuse to hire someone based on religion.)

As usual, I'll give respect when respect is shown. Thanks!

Question one; No the only two commandments that I see that might come up in job interview would be if the peron had been convicted of theft or murder and the decision to hire not would be soely based on that but how they have lived their life since then.

Question two; I don't we are all sinners those who respect their faith no this.

Question three; No as long as they do their job do it well and don't ask for special treatment or accomdations plus I'm pretty sure it would be illegal to ask someone about their sexual orientation as part of a job interview.

 

[RodISHI]

Why would anyone mention their sexual preference to an employer?

This misses the point.

The correct question is why should a gay employee fear his employer become aware of his sexual orientation.

The answer is, of course, he shouldn’t.

Unfortunately in much of America controlled by conservatives this is a very real fear.

If an employee is doing their job in a professional manner that is all that counts. If they are using that job for anything else other than doing the work they are hired to do they could and may very well should be fired.

I'm liberal more than anything else, but I like to reach out and try to understand the POV of conservatives so I don't think y'all are one big lump.

In light of the White House's directive reversing anti-discrimination employment rules for gay folks, I was hoping some religious conservatives could help me understand by answering a few questions. (Or, since I know this site, call me an idiotic libturd who hates America.)

1. I understand that the Bible says homosexual sex is a sin, but what about other sins like lying, adultery, or re-marrying? Would you refuse to hire someone who had violated the Commandments?

2. It seems to me that Christ spent most of his time with sinners. How do you reconcile forgiveness and love that Jesus preached with wanting to keep your work free from sinners?

3. Do you feel that hiring someone gay violates your faith? If so, why?

(NOTE: I am not addressing the whole "gay wedding cake" clusterfuck. This is about supporting the White House saying employers can fire or refuse to hire someone based on religion.)

As usual, I'll give respect when respect is shown. Thanks!

Needless to say you’ll get no honest responses from the most on the religious right – you’ll get only lies, ignorance, and fallacies.

Unfortunately you are a bigot.

 

[whitehall]

"Hiring someone gay"? Is that what the 1st Amendment freedom of religion means to the left? Democrats want to put people in jail for not building wedding cakes for sodomites. Democrats want to put county clerks in jail for not performing sodomite weddings. Freedom of religion was established about 250 years before some court decision about sodomite relationships and the crazy concept of less than 1% of people who defy DNA and create their sexuality. Why not give religious freedom a break?