Homeschooling: Your Views, Please

[KNB]

Morons teaching their children incorrect "facts" will be the downfall of America. How many of you still think that there were WMD in Iraq? How many of you "small-government Republicans" are in favor of the USAPATRIOT Act and domestic spying? How many of you "fiscal Conservatives" are in favor of unending war at taxpayers' expense?

If you are wrong about everything then you shouldn't be a teacher.

But it's also a fallacy to assume that kids just blindly accept everything they're taught and have no power of reasoning. That just ain't realistic.

Sorry but no. I was ostracized by most of my classmates because I objected to prayers in the classroom. Yes, I was "publically" educated and that's where I learned that the US Constitution forbids a merger of religious and state authority. I objected to the teacher leading the public class in prayer to Santa God or Quetzalcoatl or Ibrahim or the Tooth Fairy or whoever because it violated the First Amendment of the US Constitution and for the simple logical fact that none of those creatures exist in reality.

Schools are for learning facts, churches are for hoodoo chants to summon ancient ghosts. If anyone has to argue that God does not exist then every generation of kids for the last 2000 years has had a serious problem with logical thinking and questioning information. You can thank religion for this explanation of human biology and history:

"The first woman was created from the first man's rib and that couple had three sons, one was murdered, and then that's where we all come from, except for the worldwide flood that killed everything except for a drunk, his wife, their three sons and their three wives who all managed to survive on a boat for over a month with two of every species of animal, and they are the ones who repopulated the Earth."

Generation after generation, for 2000 years, do not logically question what they are told.

 

[Meathead]

Being taught to think is "functionally useless"??

You jealous?

If you need to be "taught to think" then yes, absolutely. You nailed it!

Everybody needs to learn how to think. Without that they end up like you.

Absolutely the feeblest retort I have run across on a sight which has no poster criteria.

If you were "taught how to think", then my certainty is confirmed. It sounds very much like something that came out of Mao's cultural revolution. The Chinese, on the other hand, are a very intelligent people. Even so, it has taken them years to rectify the social conditioning which you champion.

 

[Pogo]

If you need to be "taught to think" then yes, absolutely. You nailed it!

Everybody needs to learn how to think. Without that they end up like you.

Absolutely the feeblest retort I have run across on a sight which has no poster criteria.

If you were "taught how to think", then my certainty is confirmed. It sounds very much like something that came out of Mao's cultural revolution. The Chinese, on the other hand, are a very intelligent people. Even so, it has taken them years to rectify the social conditioning which you champion.

I don't know what in the blue **** you're talking about at this point but it's clearly not on topic. Perhaps you're not capable. So why don't you just **** off and find a thread you can handle?

 

[Meathead]

Everybody needs to learn how to think. Without that they end up like you.

Absolutely the feeblest retort I have run across on a sight which has no poster criteria.

If you were "taught how to think", then my certainty is confirmed. It sounds very much like something that came out of Mao's cultural revolution. The Chinese, on the other hand, are a very intelligent people. Even so, it has taken them years to rectify the social conditioning which you champion.

I don't know what in the blue **** you're talking about at this point but it's clearly not on topic. Perhaps you're not capable. So why don't you just **** off and find a thread you can handle?

Yet more testimony for public education. Imagine what you might have come up with otherwise.

 

[Bush92]

Depends on parental dedication and must be weighed in light of proper psychological socialization for the child.

 

[Pogo]

Morons teaching their children incorrect "facts" will be the downfall of America. How many of you still think that there were WMD in Iraq? How many of you "small-government Republicans" are in favor of the USAPATRIOT Act and domestic spying? How many of you "fiscal Conservatives" are in favor of unending war at taxpayers' expense?

If you are wrong about everything then you shouldn't be a teacher.

But it's also a fallacy to assume that kids just blindly accept everything they're taught and have no power of reasoning. That just ain't realistic.

Sorry but no. I was ostracized by most of my classmates because I objected to prayers in the classroom. Yes, I was "publically" educated and that's where I learned that the US Constitution forbids a merger of religious and state authority. I objected to the teacher leading the public class in prayer to Santa God or Quetzalcoatl or Ibrahim or the Tooth Fairy or whoever because it violated the First Amendment of the US Constitution and for the simple logical fact that none of those creatures exist in reality.

Schools are for learning facts, churches are for hoodoo chants to summon ancient ghosts. If anyone has to argue that God does not exist then every generation of kids for the last 2000 years has had a serious problem with logical thinking and questioning information. You can thank religion for this explanation of human biology and history:

"The first woman was created from the first man's rib and that couple had three sons, one was murdered, and then that's where we all come from, except for the worldwide flood that killed everything except for a drunk, his wife, their three sons and their three wives who all managed to survive on a boat for over a month with two of every species of animal, and they are the ones who repopulated the Earth."

Generation after generation, for 2000 years, do not logically question what they are told.

Actually you're confirming my point -- you questioned and rejected.

I did that too, right from first grade. I can remember they told us there was this thing called God who made everything -- OK, I accept that for now; then they tell us we're all descended from this couple Adam and Eve -- OK I accept that for now, then they tell us about "original sin" and that's when I balked, because I knew I wasn't there.

Kids can smell bullshit if we just give 'em some credit for having that ability. That's exactly why I say the most important thing to teach is how to think and reason and question. Because when you have that you don't accept bullshit.

Now a person who has been taught to think and in spite of that still accepts the bullshit, has no one to blame but himself.

 

[Wake]

Pogo, in your opinion how would you teach someone to think?

For some time I've been under the impression that thinking is the process of using one's mind to consider or reason about things. I don't believe it's a matter of "how" to think, but the issue of "what" to think. Unfortunately, I believe there are those who not only teach people matters in academia, but try to teach them "what" to think... or what to believe in.

 

[sealybobo]

I was homeschooled as a child.

There are arguments made for and against it.

Would you please share your views on it here?

I work with a lot of home schooled kids. Their parents sign them up for music lessons at my private business music school. So they pay $30 per week for their kid to learn guitar or drums or piano or sing. Nice kids, but they are a little weird and here is why. Any kid who's being home schooled probably lives in a bad neighborhood or their parents have a lot of bad experiences growing up and they are projecting that onto their kids. Maybe if more and more people did it eventually it wouldn't be mostly crazies/wimps/intraverts who do it.

Just my opinion.

That's commendable.

On the bolded, however, that is certainly not the case for most. Homeschooling, from my own humble perspective, typically happens in families that are middle class and up. As for the parents, it's unfair to say that of every parent that homeschools, much like saying every person who is liberal has misgivings about hard work and self-reliance. Let's qualify these comments and prize the fact that not everyone in each group is the same.

All cases are different. In my case, I was viciously bullied to the point of my flesh being whipped off by wet, twisted towels. We lived in the suburbs, too. If there is one thing you could take from this post, it's the message that you should meet and better understand the people who homeschool their children, and why.

You sort of proved my point. Ok it wasn't your parents that had the bad experience it was you who was viciously bullied. Many of us had to deal with bullying. I can remember thinking as a freshman and sophomore that high school wasn't much different than prison. But I think it was a valuable experience and helped me when I went off to college. Are you going to do online college?

It is a shame the teachers allowed you to be viciously attacked. Did it happen more than once? Did you complain and it happened again after that? I'd leave school too if that were the case. So that would prove my other point. If your school allowed that I would consider that a bad neighborhood/school system. Unfortunately that shit probably happens even in good school systems.

 

[Pogo]

Pogo, in your opinion how would you teach someone to think?

For some time I've been under the impression that thinking is the process of using one's mind to consider or reason about things. I don't believe it's a matter of "how" to think, but the issue of "what" to think. Unfortunately, I believe there are those who not only teach people matters in academia, but try to teach them "what" to think... or what to believe in.

Process is it, exactly. Not what the right answer is, but why it's the right answer. If you have the skill of how to think, then what you're told to think is of no consequence -- because you've been given intellectual independence.

It's exactly the old maxim about "teach a man to fish".

 

[KNB]

But it's also a fallacy to assume that kids just blindly accept everything they're taught and have no power of reasoning. That just ain't realistic.

Sorry but no. I was ostracized by most of my classmates because I objected to prayers in the classroom. Yes, I was "publically" educated and that's where I learned that the US Constitution forbids a merger of religious and state authority. I objected to the teacher leading the public class in prayer to Santa God or Quetzalcoatl or Ibrahim or the Tooth Fairy or whoever because it violated the First Amendment of the US Constitution and for the simple logical fact that none of those creatures exist in reality.

Schools are for learning facts, churches are for hoodoo chants to summon ancient ghosts. If anyone has to argue that God does not exist then every generation of kids for the last 2000 years has had a serious problem with logical thinking and questioning information. You can thank religion for this explanation of human biology and history:

"The first woman was created from the first man's rib and that couple had three sons, one was murdered, and then that's where we all come from, except for the worldwide flood that killed everything except for a drunk, his wife, their three sons and their three wives who all managed to survive on a boat for over a month with two of every species of animal, and they are the ones who repopulated the Earth."

Generation after generation, for 2000 years, do not logically question what they are told.

Actually you're confirming my point -- you questioned and rejected.

I did that too, right from first grade. I can remember they told us there was this thing called God who made everything -- OK, I accept that for now; then they tell us we're all descended from this couple Adam and Eve -- OK I accept that for now, then they tell us about "original sin" and that's when I balked, because I knew I wasn't there.

Kids can smell bullshit if we just give 'em some credit for having that ability. That's exactly why I say the most important thing to teach is how to think and reason and question. Because when you have that you don't accept bullshit.

And if left alone to learn at home from morons who don't know how to question bullshit, those kids are not going to learn how to question bullshit.

People who listen to Rush Limbaugh, Glen Beck, or Sarah Palin do not know how to question bullshit, and they should not teach anyone's children.

 

[sealybobo]

Here's from another thread. It proves my point nicely:

Shariah Law Demands=One Nation Under Allah ==Comming to USA?? sHARIAH law demands: Death nto all daughters who indulge in premarital sex= death to all homosexuals= death to all Islamic apostates who speak against Allah,Muhammad,or the Koran=death to all infidels of all other religions. Some "churches" in the USA are trying to combine christianity with Islam=chrislam==The off-base Emerging Church is encouraging pastors to embrace an ecumentical concept of combining Christianity and Islam, actually partnering with Islam, to launch a new religion called…Chrislam—which would combine the two. So far, they have managed to gather 130 Christian leaders who collectively state that Muslims and Christians worship the same God. No they do not! Allah was the Arabic name for a higher power, or a god. Mohammed ‘s god was Allilah, the moon god which conveniently became the generic name for a god, Allah. This is why a crescent moon and star is on the flag of Islam and mosques. YES! MORE SIGNS OF THE LAST DAYS!!!

Are you going to argue that this freak should be allowed to teach children?

Gismys would love to get a hold of our children and brainwash them about her god. Get em while they are young and impressionable is her motto.

 

[Meathead]

Pogo, in your opinion how would you teach someone to think?

For some time I've been under the impression that thinking is the process of using one's mind to consider or reason about things. I don't believe it's a matter of "how" to think, but the issue of "what" to think. Unfortunately, I believe there are those who not only teach people matters in academia, but try to teach them "what" to think... or what to believe in.

Process is it, exactly. Not what the right answer is, but why it's the right answer. If you have the skill of how to think, then what you're told to think is of no consequence -- because you've been given intellectual independence.

It is incredible that someone as patently ignorant as yourself would presume to know what the "right answer is". My reference to Mao's Cultural Revolution, which was apparently beyond your grasp (undoubtedly owing to public education) is based on the premise that those that do not agree with you are not capable of independent thought.

Screw mathematics and hard science, a bunch of self-righteous wankers will drive the economy.

 

[Wake]

You sort of proved my point. Ok it wasn't your parents that had the bad experience it was you who was viciously bullied. Many of us had to deal with bullying. I can remember thinking as a freshman and sophomore that high school wasn't much different than prison. But I think it was a valuable experience and helped me when I went off to college. Are you going to do online college?

It is a shame the teachers allowed you to be viciously attacked. Did it happen more than once? Did you complain and it happened again after that? I'd leave school too if that were the case. So that would prove my other point. If your school allowed that I would consider that a bad neighborhood/school system. Unfortunately that shit probably happens even in good school systems.

People, in my view, shouldn't have to deal with those kinds of animals. Public school has its good experiences and influences, but it also has more than some bad ones, from peer pressure and suicide to bullying and underaged sex. Homeschooling, like public schooling, has good aspects and bad.

Because my education was superior to that of public schooling, among other factors, I outperformed most people in matters of academia. I went to nursing school, but had to leave due to unrelated reasons. Currently I've been working as a certified nursing assistant, and have grown to become extremely social (not the bullshitting often found in public schools et al, but actual interpersonal skills). It's not uncommon now to discuss the finer points of "My Man Godfrey" while toileting a client more than three times my age.

My parents had had enough of the extreme cruelty exhibited by some of these shameless animals. I was pulled out before 6th grade. I was considered '2E," but was born with ADHD as well. Meaning, I was exceptionally bright, but also hyper, unfocused, impulsive, and immature. That was years ago. Thankfully I've matured, and outgrown ADHD to the extent of just having difficulty focusing at times.

 

[Foxfyre]

Our church sponsors an AWANA group providing Christian education and socialization for mostly home schooled kids.

The group that meets at our church--most are NOT members of our church--now totals some 400 kids from elementary through high school. There are several other such groups across the city, across the country, and in other countries as well.

These kids are indeed kids from some of the poorest neighborhoods to some of the most affluent neighborhoods--most are just from your average middle class family. The one thing they all have in common is that they are amazing young people--courteous, caring, ambitious, creative, and almost all accomplished in activities other than pure academia. It is extremely rare that these kids get knocked up, get involved with illegal substances or activities, or otherwise make terrible choices that severely negatively impact them. The high school graduation rate is right at 100% and almost all go on to get some kind of advanced education. The college graduation rate is very high compared to the general population.

My own great nephew was home schooled by his mom from first through 12th grade--she had only a high school education himself. He himself was of average intelligence--not a genius or anything--but he scored in the upper percentiles on his SATs that earned him a scholarship to a good school where he graduated magna cume laude in four years.

I got a good education in public schools, but that was before the federal government began seriously meddling in the process--we could sing religious Christmas carols in the school Christmas (not winter) concert--etc. My kids got a fairly good education in the public schools again before the government started seriously meddling.

If I had a kid to educate now, and could not afford a top notch private or parochial school, I would home school. No way would I use the public education system now.

 

[Pogo]

Pogo, in your opinion how would you teach someone to think?

For some time I've been under the impression that thinking is the process of using one's mind to consider or reason about things. I don't believe it's a matter of "how" to think, but the issue of "what" to think. Unfortunately, I believe there are those who not only teach people matters in academia, but try to teach them "what" to think... or what to believe in.

Process is it, exactly. Not what the right answer is, but why it's the right answer. If you have the skill of how to think, then what you're told to think is of no consequence -- because you've been given intellectual independence.

It is incredible that someone as patently ignorant as yourself would presume to know what the "right answer is". My reference to Mao's Cultural Revolution, which was apparently beyond your grasp (undoubtedly owing to public education) is based on the premise that those that do not agree with you are not capable of independent thought.

Screw mathematics and hard science, a bunch of self-righteous wankers will drive the economy.

Somehow everything you post finds a way to make even less sense than the last.

So far we've learned that thinking is bad and Mao something yammer yammer.

I can't wait to see where this incoherency goes next....

 

[Meathead]

Process is it, exactly. Not what the right answer is, but why it's the right answer. If you have the skill of how to think, then what you're told to think is of no consequence -- because you've been given intellectual independence.

It is incredible that someone as patently ignorant as yourself would presume to know what the "right answer is". My reference to Mao's Cultural Revolution, which was apparently beyond your grasp (undoubtedly owing to public education) is based on the premise that those that do not agree with you are not capable of independent thought.

Screw mathematics and hard science, a bunch of self-righteous wankers will drive the economy.

Somehow everything you post finds a way to make even less sense than the last.

So far we've learned that thinking is bad and Mao something yammer yammer.

I can't wait to see where this incoherency goes next....

It need not go anywhere. The hole dug you've dug yourself will suffice.

 

[Pogo]

It is incredible that someone as patently ignorant as yourself would presume to know what the "right answer is". My reference to Mao's Cultural Revolution, which was apparently beyond your grasp (undoubtedly owing to public education) is based on the premise that those that do not agree with you are not capable of independent thought.

Screw mathematics and hard science, a bunch of self-righteous wankers will drive the economy.

Somehow everything you post finds a way to make even less sense than the last.

So far we've learned that thinking is bad and Mao something yammer yammer.

I can't wait to see where this incoherency goes next....

It need not go anywhere. The hole dug you've dug yourself will suffice.

"The hole dug you've dug" huh... good to see the pattern holds. "The dug, the whole dug and nothing but the dug".

 

[sealybobo]

You sort of proved my point. Ok it wasn't your parents that had the bad experience it was you who was viciously bullied. Many of us had to deal with bullying. I can remember thinking as a freshman and sophomore that high school wasn't much different than prison. But I think it was a valuable experience and helped me when I went off to college. Are you going to do online college?

It is a shame the teachers allowed you to be viciously attacked. Did it happen more than once? Did you complain and it happened again after that? I'd leave school too if that were the case. So that would prove my other point. If your school allowed that I would consider that a bad neighborhood/school system. Unfortunately that shit probably happens even in good school systems.

People, in my view, shouldn't have to deal with those kinds of animals. Public school has its good experiences and influences, but it also has more than some bad ones, from peer pressure and suicide to bullying and underaged sex. Homeschooling, like public schooling, has good aspects and bad.

Because me education was superior to that of public schooling, among other factors, I outperformed most people in matters of academia. I went to nursing school, but had to leave due to unrelated reasons. Currently I've been working as a certified nursing assistant, and have grown to become extremely social (not the bullshitting often found in public schools et al, but actual interpersonal skills). It's not uncommon now to discuss the finer points of "My Man Godfrey" while toileting a client more than three times my age.

My parents had had enough of the extreme cruelty exhibited by some of these shameless animals. I was pulled out before 6th grade. I was considered '2E," but was born with ADHD as well. Meaning, I was exceptionally bright, but also hyper, unfocused, impulsive, and immature. That was years ago. Thankfully I've matured, and outgrown ADHD to the extent of just having difficulty focusing at times.

Who was the woman I just saw on tv who thanked her parents for not medicating her when the school recommended it and she ended up turning all that energy into an acting or singing career. I can't remember who it was, but you get the point. So what if you were adhd. Maybe the teachers should stop being boring.

Yea, schools can suck. Until 4th grade I went to an all black school. Me, my bro and one other kid were the only 3 whites. Of the top 10 bad schools in Detroit, 9 were

 

[sealybobo]

Our church sponsors an AWANA group providing Christian education and socialization for mostly home schooled kids.

The group that meets at our church--most are NOT members of our church--now totals some 400 kids from elementary through high school. There are several other such groups across the city, across the country, and in other countries as well.

These kids are indeed kids from some of the poorest neighborhoods to some of the most affluent neighborhoods--most are just from your average middle class family. The one thing they all have in common is that they are amazing young people--courteous, caring, ambitious, creative, and almost all accomplished in activities other than pure academia. It is extremely rare that these kids get knocked up, get involved with illegal substances or activities, or otherwise make terrible choices that severely negatively impact them. The high school graduation rate is right at 100% and almost all go on to get some kind of advanced education. The college graduation rate is very high compared to the general population.

My own great nephew was home schooled by his mom from first through 12th grade--she had only a high school education himself. He himself was of average intelligence--not a genius or anything--but he scored in the upper percentiles on his SATs that earned him a scholarship to a good school where he graduated magna cume laude in four years.

I got a good education in public schools, but that was before the federal government began seriously meddling in the process--we could sing religious Christmas carols in the school Christmas (not winter) concert--etc. My kids got a fairly good education in the public schools again before the government started seriously meddling.

If I had a kid to educate now, and could not afford a top notch private or parochial school, I would home school. No way would I use the public education system now.

So you don't consider forcing atheists, jews and muslims to sing christmas carols meddling?

 

[Meathead]

Our church sponsors an AWANA group providing Christian education and socialization for mostly home schooled kids.

The group that meets at our church--most are NOT members of our church--now totals some 400 kids from elementary through high school. There are several other such groups across the city, across the country, and in other countries as well.

These kids are indeed kids from some of the poorest neighborhoods to some of the most affluent neighborhoods--most are just from your average middle class family. The one thing they all have in common is that they are amazing young people--courteous, caring, ambitious, creative, and almost all accomplished in activities other than pure academia. It is extremely rare that these kids get knocked up, get involved with illegal substances or activities, or otherwise make terrible choices that severely negatively impact them. The high school graduation rate is right at 100% and almost all go on to get some kind of advanced education. The college graduation rate is very high compared to the general population.

My own great nephew was home schooled by his mom from first through 12th grade--she had only a high school education himself. He himself was of average intelligence--not a genius or anything--but he scored in the upper percentiles on his SATs that earned him a scholarship to a good school where he graduated magna cume laude in four years.

I got a good education in public schools, but that was before the federal government began seriously meddling in the process--we could sing religious Christmas carols in the school Christmas (not winter) concert--etc. My kids got a fairly good education in the public schools again before the government started seriously meddling.

If I had a kid to educate now, and could not afford a top notch private or parochial school, I would home school. No way would I use the public education system now.

So you don't consider forcing atheists, jews and muslims to sing christmas carols meddling?

I have little doubt that his children's education would trump any such consideration.