Zone1 Have we lost The Bible Story?

[ding]

I thought Christians invented the concept of Heaven and Hell? You should read your scripture.

Great. Tell me what heaven and hell is exactly. You seem to be an expert on it, right?

 

[alang1216]

Another example of an external locus of control. And no, that's not what you are doing. You aren't trying to navigate around and through them. You are using them as excuses as a person with an external locus of control is wont to do.

Do you at least admit they do exist?

 

[ding]

Do you at least admit they do exist?

No. I don't see any roadblocks or obstacles. I only see limitations of knowledge (i.e. truth) and the pursuit of knowledge (i.e. truth). Truth is discovered. It's a journey.

 

[alang1216]

You could but for that to be true you'd have to catch me making disingenuous arguments that I got pleasure from.

Link

You don't scare me. You disappoint me.

Good, I feel the same about you.

 

[alang1216]

Great. Tell me what heaven and hell is exactly. You seem to be an expert on it, right?

Eternal reward and eternal punishment.

 

[0311]

Are Christians guilty of scaring people into Christianity with threats of hell? Are non-believers guilty of accusing Christians of too often using threats to convert them? (Often under the guise of, "If someone's house was in danger of catching fire, wouldn't you warn them of that? So why not warn them of hell."

Is the current (too often heard) summary of The Bible Story, Be afraid, be very afraid?

There are battles. The earth has battles, nations have battles, the workplace has battles, and we have personal battles. When was the last time we were assured—or we assured another, The battles belong to the Lord, which is a theme running throughout this story.

You the total and complete bullshit of that myth book? Who cares.

 

[ding]

Link


Good, I feel the same about you.

The key distinction is "disingenuous arguments." With almost every argument you make I question the question. I don't engage in disingenuous arguments that have no basis in reality or logic. And lastly I don't get enjoyment from outsmarting the people who are here to outsmart the people. I don't even see it as moral. On the contrary I freely admit it is immoral. I see it as a necessity. An obligation to truth. Your understanding of God is comical because your understanding is skewed to fairytales. My understanding of God is logical because it driven by the desire for truth because my understanding of God is God is truth. You have no understanding of God so everything you see is fairytale. So tell me, which one of us has done more due diligence? The one who dismisses everything as fairytales or the one who studies everything?

 

[ding]

Eternal reward and eternal punishment.

Ok, what does that mean. Thumbnail it for me.

 

[ding]

You the total and complete bullshit of that myth book? Who cares.

Obviously you do. You're here discussing something you don't believe. She's here discussing something she does believe. It's logical for her to be here. It's not logical for you to be here. So since it's not logical for you to be here, you must have some deep concern or care AGAINST the subject.

 

[BreezeWood]

It's logical for her to be here. It's not logical for you to be here.

christianity, meriweather et all promotes servitude and denial the opposite reason those in the 1st century gave their lives in their beliefs of liberation theology - christians have no more reason to be in this forum than anyone else.

 

[shockedcanadian]

christianity, meriweather et all promotes servitude and denial the opposite reason those in the 1st century gave their lives in their beliefs of liberation theology - christians have no more reason to be in this forum than anyone else.

Why do you hate religion so mucn? Some personal experience to.explain your disgust with it would be helpful.

 

[ding]

christianity, meriweather et all promotes servitude and denial the opposite reason those in the 1st century gave their lives in their beliefs of liberation theology - christians have no more reason to be in this forum than anyone else.

Incorrect.

1. Christianity promotes the virtues of thankfulness, forgiveness, humility, chastity, temperance, charity, diligence, patience and kindness.
2. Christianity creates wonderful charities and organizations
3. Christians and Christian institutions are usually the first source of literacy, education, and healthcare in the poorer regions.
4. Christianity has been the source of abundant human services from hospitals, orphanages, nursing homes, and schools, to advocacy on behalf of those with no voice, to supporting cultural outreaches, and seeking always to find ways in which to protect and promote human life and its authentic flourishing.
5. Christianity gave us the concept of subsidiarity.
6. Christianity has done what no government can ever do, namely teach morality and civility.
7. Christianity teaches accountability and responsibility.
8. Christianity teaches that we have a choice in how we behave.
9. Christianity teaches that actions have consequences.
10. Christianity inspires a sense of wonder in nature and the universe.
11. Christianity helps us feel connected to one another and to nature.
12. Christianity helps us feel less alone in the world.
13. Christianity serves to ennoble the human spirit.
14. Christianity serves to bind the community together.
15. Christianity inspires love, peace and happiness.
16. Christianity serves to create traditions.
17. Christianity brings order to our lives.
18. Christianity brings comfort to the terminally ill.
19. Christianity can act as a source of hope for the oppressed.
20. Christianity teaches that we can transform ourselves.
21. Christian values were the foundation which Western Civilization was built upon.
22. No other institution played a greater role in shaping Western Civilization than the Catholic Church.
23. Modern science was born in the Catholic Church.
24. Catholic priests developed the idea of free-market.
25. The Catholic Church invented the university.
26. Western law grew out of Church canon law.
27. The Catholic Church humanized the West by insisting on the sacredness of all human life.
28. The Church constantly sought to alleviate the evils of slavery and repeatedly denounced the mass enslavement of conquered populations and the infamous slave trade, thereby undermining slavery at its sources.
29. Christianity gave us great thinkers, leaders and humanitarians.
30. Christianity gave us America.
31. Christianity gave us incredible artwork.
32. Christianity gave us incredible music.
33. Christianity gave us incredible architecture.
34. Christianity has spread democracy.
35. Christians fought other Christians in WWII to end their aggression.
36. Christians rebuilt Europe after WWII.
37. Christians rebuilt Japan after WWII.
38. Christians put a man on the moon.
39. Christians ended the cold war.

 

[Meriweather]

Faced with the certain knowledge that there is a God, repentance would be very easy.

I have certain knowledge God is. Repentance (change of heart) is not easy. Knowledge of God does not preserve one from the brokenness of mankind. It's brokenness--not lack of knowledge--that makes repentance the great challenge that it is.

 

[Meriweather]

Can you giive us two or three examples?

Grin. There aren't any! My whole point is that neither Jesus nor the Apostles addressed evolution.

 

[ding]

This answer applies to the lost bible story too.

The Pope demands that Catholics say that God created everything first and then they are free to believe in Darwinian evolution and the big bang!

So where's the contradiction in that?

Can anybody tackle that question? I think that Ding has tried in the past? He's certainly been asked enough times!

note: beware of the big bang theory now being on shaky grounds.

Every monotheistic religion I am aware of - including Hinduism which is henotheistic - and many primal religions start with a creator creating existence. It is a foundational monotheistic belief. I'm not aware of any religion that goes beyond that. You are trying to argue nuts and bolts when no monotheistic religion I am aware of has tried to describe the nuts and bolts. The creation account in Genesis loosely describes a creation and then events unfolding sequentially. That you make a big deal out of this is a sign of your lack of intellect. Rather than seeing it for what it is, you latch onto a fringe belief. Why don't you go ask a native American or an Aboriginal what their concept of God creating the universe is. You'll discover their belief and my belief are quite similar.

 

[Meriweather]

I don't disagree--but a true faith will manifest works. We must "press toward the goal", it does indeed require effort on our part. BUT, I also know that God put new desires and a new stamina in me when I was saved--and not immediately, but one that grew (and continues to grow) slowly. I could not have done that on my own through sheer willpower.

Agree. This is where God's gifts of grace and blessings come into play.

 

[Meriweather]

You have to realize that, while it may not be official Catholic doctrine, there ARE Catholics who DO believe they have to work their way into salvation. You can find posts on here that reflect that. There are some outside of Catholicism who believe that as well, but to be angry that Catholics are accused of such a belief is cautionary.

Paul speaks of two kinds of works. The first is working out one's salvation with fear and trembling. He points to Abraham who acted in obedience through his faith in God. These are the kinds of works Catholics speak of, the same kinds of works Paul (and James) speak of. "Show me your faith, I'll show you my works..." Salvation is a gift of faith expressing itself through love/works. These two cannot be divided.

The second kind of works Paul addresses, again in Galatians, is Jewish Law. He says that the Children of Abraham are "People of Faith" not "People of the Law".

Catholics speak of the first kind of works. If you are uncertain as to this, ask any Catholic which Jewish Law brings about salvation. Is it circumcision? Is it the washing to hands? Is dietary practices? Is it tithing? Have you met any Catholic in your lifetime who has claimed that their salvation came from following Jewish Law (or 'works' as Paul often calls these laws)? I very much doubt it. Catholics speak of works as faith expressing itself through love/works. That is the way of salvation, and is what both Paul and James noted.

Salvation is a gift, the Catholic faith insists on this.

 

[BreezeWood]

Why do you hate religion so mucn? Some personal experience to.explain your disgust with it would be helpful.

not everyone is blind ...

nor in the liest dismissive of recorded history - what religion do you speak of ... mine is those who gave their lives in the 1st century.

 

[SweetSue92]

You should not impute your lack of understanding onto others.

Pride

 

[SweetSue92]

You are the one who judged Woodznutz beliefs to not be Christian theology.


I have talked to many Christians and none can agree as to what makes one a Christian. Oddly every one of them knows what makes someone not a Christian.

Romans 10:9

If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord
And believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead
YOU WILL BE SAVED

My commentary:

Do not subtract from that. You must confess and believe.

But nothing needs to be added, either.