Zone1 Have we lost The Bible Story?

[SweetSue92]

Paul has interesting things to say about salvation:

Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling (Philippians 2:12).
...if I have all the faith to move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. (1 Corinthians 13:2)
... the only thing that counts is faith working through love (Galatians 5:6)

James (2:24) agrees: A person is justified by works and not through faith alone.

Martin Luther thought Paul was saying works cannot save; Martin Luther proclaimed, "Faith alone!" The only place the Bible says "faith alone" is James 2:24. Martin Luther was a Catholic priest. So what did he miss, what didn't he understand about what Paul was saying about "works"?

All through Galatians Paul is pointing to Jewish Law which he describes as "works". Circumcision cannot save. Faith saves, but not "faith alone". Read carefully, and one picks up other examples of Paul insisting it is not Jewish Laws that save but faith in Jesus, not faith in Jewish Law/works. Either Paul or James point out that Abraham through an act (work) of faith in his willingness to sacrifice his son, that he was justified before God. (An example of how faith and acts/works go together.)

I don't disagree--but a true faith will manifest works. We must "press toward the goal", it does indeed require effort on our part. BUT, I also know that God put new desires and a new stamina in me when I was saved--and not immediately, but one that grew (and continues to grow) slowly. I could not have done that on my own through sheer willpower.

 

[SweetSue92]

You mean is is not YOUR theology. Woodznutz is a Christian and it is his(?) theology so you must think he is a heretic. Wars have been fought between Christians for less.

I have no theology....who am I?

And what makes one a Christian? Believing what Christ said, maybe?

 

[Woodznutz]

No such thing

Of course there is. There is a simple test. Try starting your car with an empty gas tank.

Even if I leave all the parts of my mousetraps intact, unless I bait and set them, I will never catch a mouse.

 

[alang1216]

Many such contradictions have been explained. Others might be the result of 'tweaking' scripture by unscrupulous scribes and editors. John issued a warning against such in Revelation.

As a Bible student I have problems with some translations that are flying under the radar.

That may be the case but the fact remains there are major contradictions. The birth narratives are one example.

 

[Woodznutz]

Yes, in teaching we call them "natural consequences"--they are punishments that flow from your own decisions/actions. If you choose not to study at all for the test, or do your homework, the natural consequence is that you do not get a passing grade. Etc.

There is a relationship between God's choice and our choices that is "through the mirror darkly"....I hold it loosely. Because I can't fully understand it, and it has not been given to us to fully understand (yet).

You should not impute your lack of understanding onto others.

 

[Woodznutz]

That may be the case but the fact remains there are major contradictions. The birth narratives are one example.

Do you mean the genealogies of Christ?

 

[alang1216]

I have no theology....who am I?

You are the one who judged Woodznutz beliefs to not be Christian theology.

And what makes one a Christian? Believing what Christ said, maybe?

I have talked to many Christians and none can agree as to what makes one a Christian. Oddly every one of them knows what makes someone not a Christian.

 

[alang1216]

So says the evolution believers. There is a simple test. Try starting your car with an empty gas tank.

Even if I leave all the parts of my mousetraps intact, unless I bait and set them, I will never catch a mouse.

The only thing the evolutionist lacks is...critical thinking.

Neither cars nor mousetraps have evolved so they are poor examples but better left to another thread.

 

[Woodznutz]

I have no theology....who am I?

And what makes one a Christian? Believing what Christ said, maybe?

Theology is simply the study of God's word. The more you study it the more knowledge and understanding you obtain. My theology, my study, is the same as anyone's. However, I may discover things through my study that others don't.

 

[Woodznutz]

Neither cars nor mousetraps have evolved so they are poor examples but better left to another thread.

Exactly. They were created fully functional from the get-go, although they have been improved over time.

 

[alang1216]

A great chasm has been fixed. Lazarus and the rich man. Jesus told that story. But you're not the first by far, nor will you be the last, to choose your stomach over God. It's all too common.

I didn't choose anything over God, I just didn't choose God.

Woodznutz is much more culpable than you are

So it is better to believe in nothing than to believe in the wrong thing? I wonder how many Christians would agree with that.

 

[alang1216]

Do you mean the genealogies of Christ?

No, that is a minor matter even if you trace Jesus' lineage through a man who was not his father. Compare the reasons Jesus was born in Bethlehem and where his family went afterwards. The reason for the stories are to show Jesus fulfilled a prophesy.

 

[Woodznutz]

No, that is a minor matter even if you trace Jesus' lineage through a man who was not his father. Compare the reasons Jesus was born in Bethlehem and where his family went afterwards. The reason for the stories are to show Jesus fulfilled a prophesy.

Jesus fulfilled many prophecies.

 

[alang1216]

Jesus fulfilled many prophecies.

Right, according to books written decades after he died. If that were the truth, you'd think more Jews would have recognized him as the Messiah. In large part, the Jews he lived among did not recognize him that way and later Jews generally didn't convert.

 

[ding]

It's a wonderful theology.

You think you are superior but you are not.

 

[ding]

'External' as in the God who judges us and then rewards or punishes us? As an atheist I don't recognize His controls, do you?

No. External like transfering your control to external sources. And I don't know if it can be said that God rewards or punishes us so I find the plank in your beliefs to be rotten.

 

[ding]

The roadblocks were already there, I'm just trying to navigate around and through them.

Another example of an external locus of control. And no, that's not what you are doing. You aren't trying to navigate around and through them. You are using them as excuses as a person with an external locus of control is wont to do.

 

[alang1216]

You think you are superior but you are not.

I could say the same about you. Do I scare you?

 

[alang1216]

No. External like transfering your control to external sources. And I don't know if it can be said that God rewards or punishes us so I find the plank in your beliefs to be rotten.

I thought Christians invented the concept of Heaven and Hell? You should read your scripture.

 

[ding]

I could say the same about you. Do I scare you?

You could but for that to be true you'd have to catch me making disingenuous arguments that I got pleasure from. You don't scare me. You disappoint me.