Gun Background Checks Pass in Washington

[Saigon]

PredFan -

If background checks mean that a potentially violent husband is turned down for a gun license, then it might very well actually save lives, mightn't it?

After all - you just saw the graph in the other thread that proves that safety-based gun laws work very well in other countries, no?

 

[M14 Shooter]

Marty, Rabbi, M14...
From your experience in the legal gun business and/or gun ownership, how can guns be reduced in the Black Market?

How do you make illegal sales and possession more illegal, so the people who break the law now will stop?
You understand the absurdity of this, yes?

Here's the thing:
Laws exist not to prevent crime but to punish people after they commit one.
It is impossible to enact a law that will prevent people from breaking the law -- laws cannot prevent people from committing crimes; as such, it is fallacious to restrict the actions of the law abiding in order to prevent people who do not obey the law from breaking the law..
And so, what do you do? Punish people when they commit crimes.

It's hard to decipher your long winded and muddled response...????

It was terribly clear to me. What do you not understand?

 

[Care4all]

These background checks will not stop gang shootings , they will not stop a battered spouse or a spouse batterer from shooting the spouse, it will not stop some messed up kid from shooting up his school. So when the next violent act with a gun happens, another new law will be proposed and possibly passed, them when that law doesn't work, and it won't, them there will be another, and another and another, until they get the total ban that they really want.

Time for me to donate more money to the NRA.

if the supply in the black market that sells to criminals is reduced, then ''armed offenses'' would likely reduce as well...no?

How do we or can we, reduce the supply of guns on the black market sold to criminals, without reducing law abiding citizens of their 2nd amendment right? Any ideas?

 

[martybegan]

PredFan -

If background checks mean that a potentially violent husband is turned down for a gun license, then it might very well actually save lives, mightn't it?

After all - you just saw the graph in the other thread that proves that safety-based gun laws work very well in other countries, no?

Under what due process would said violent person be denied a gun purchase?

 

[martybegan]

Marty, Rabbi, M14...

From your experience in the legal gun business and/or gun ownership, how can guns be reduced in the Black Market?

What should or could be done to reduce the amount of guns that criminals can get their hands on?


Because if we can reduce the SUPPLY, then the cost of purchasing these Black Market guns would go wayyyyyyyy up in price....which in my opinion would reduce 'some' of the criminals from getting these guns...in the least, it would take longer, for them to save up, to buy the gun, wouldn't it?

What can be done, that would not infringe on our 2nd amendment rights, that actually COULD reduce the guns on the Black Market???

Any ideas at all???

Simple. if you are a convicted felon who is in possession of a firearm, you go to jail for life.

 

[M14 Shooter]

The benefit of "reasonable" gun control.

CA gun laws require that:
-All transfers must be through a dealer, thus...
-All transfers undergo a background check
-All transfers undergo a 10-day waiting period (ruled unconstitutional 8/2014)
-All firearms must be registered
-Handgun purchases require a handgun safety certificate-– a permit.that requires training and a test
-Ban on ‘assault weapons’, effective 1 JUN 1989
-Ban on magazines that hold more than 10 rounds
-Ban on NFA machineguns

% of murders in US committed with a firearm: 69.36 (8855/12765)
% of murders in CA committed with a firearm: 69.39 (1304/1879) <<< No difference from the national average

% US population in CA: 12.12%
% US murders in CA: 14.71 <<< 21.4% higher than per capita national average
% US murders with a gun in CA 14.72 <<< 21.4% higher than per national average

Thus, the failure of "reasonable" gun control.

 

[Care4all]

Marty, Rabbi, M14...
From your experience in the legal gun business and/or gun ownership, how can guns be reduced in the Black Market?

How do you make illegal sales and possession more illegal, so the people who break the law now will stop?
You understand the absurdity of this, yes?

Here's the thing:
Laws exist not to prevent crime but to punish people after they commit one.
It is impossible to enact a law that will prevent people from breaking the law -- laws cannot prevent people from committing crimes; as such, it is fallacious to restrict the actions of the law abiding in order to prevent people who do not obey the law from breaking the law..
And so, what do you do? Punish people when they commit crimes.

It's hard to decipher your long winded and muddled response...????

It was terribly clear to me. What do you not understand?

IS your answer to my question on your ideas on how to reduce the number of guns available for criminals to buy on the black market:

There IS NO WAY TO REDUCE GUNS available to criminals making it to the Black Market?

 

[martybegan]

These background checks will not stop gang shootings , they will not stop a battered spouse or a spouse batterer from shooting the spouse, it will not stop some messed up kid from shooting up his school. So when the next violent act with a gun happens, another new law will be proposed and possibly passed, them when that law doesn't work, and it won't, them there will be another, and another and another, until they get the total ban that they really want.

Time for me to donate more money to the NRA.

if the supply in the black market that sells to criminals is reduced, then ''armed offenses'' would likely reduce as well...no?

How do we or can we, reduce the supply of guns on the black market sold to criminals, without reducing law abiding citizens of their 2nd amendment right? Any ideas?

Reducing the supply is playing catch up. We do all we can to reduce the supply of drugs, and we accomplish nothing more than making criminals richer, and filling up our jails with non violent offenders.

Reduce the demand. as a said before, if you are a convicted felon and we find you with a firearm, you go to prison for life.

 

[Care4all]

Marty, Rabbi, M14...

From your experience in the legal gun business and/or gun ownership, how can guns be reduced in the Black Market?

What should or could be done to reduce the amount of guns that criminals can get their hands on?


Because if we can reduce the SUPPLY, then the cost of purchasing these Black Market guns would go wayyyyyyyy up in price....which in my opinion would reduce 'some' of the criminals from getting these guns...in the least, it would take longer, for them to save up, to buy the gun, wouldn't it?

What can be done, that would not infringe on our 2nd amendment rights, that actually COULD reduce the guns on the Black Market???

Any ideas at all???

Simple. if you are a convicted felon who is in possession of a firearm, you go to jail for life.

Does that REDUCE the number of guns making it in to the ILLEGAL Black Market?

 

[M14 Shooter]

Marty, Rabbi, M14...
From your experience in the legal gun business and/or gun ownership, how can guns be reduced in the Black Market?

How do you make illegal sales and possession more illegal, so the people who break the law now will stop?
You understand the absurdity of this, yes?

Here's the thing:
Laws exist not to prevent crime but to punish people after they commit one.
It is impossible to enact a law that will prevent people from breaking the law -- laws cannot prevent people from committing crimes; as such, it is fallacious to restrict the actions of the law abiding in order to prevent people who do not obey the law from breaking the law..
And so, what do you do? Punish people when they commit crimes.

It's hard to decipher your long winded and muddled response...????

It was terribly clear to me. What do you not understand?

IS your answer to my question on your ideas on how to reduce the number of guns available for criminals to buy on the black market:
There IS NO WAY TO REDUCE GUNS available to criminals making it to the Black Market?

I gave you my response. You said you did not understand it.
What do you need explained?

 

[martybegan]

Marty, Rabbi, M14...

From your experience in the legal gun business and/or gun ownership, how can guns be reduced in the Black Market?

What should or could be done to reduce the amount of guns that criminals can get their hands on?


Because if we can reduce the SUPPLY, then the cost of purchasing these Black Market guns would go wayyyyyyyy up in price....which in my opinion would reduce 'some' of the criminals from getting these guns...in the least, it would take longer, for them to save up, to buy the gun, wouldn't it?

What can be done, that would not infringe on our 2nd amendment rights, that actually COULD reduce the guns on the Black Market???

Any ideas at all???

Simple. if you are a convicted felon who is in possession of a firearm, you go to jail for life.

Does that REDUCE the number of guns making it in to the ILLEGAL Black Market?

It reduces the demand, which makes the questions on the supply, and more importantly laws to reduce said supply that only impact law abiding people irrelevant.

And to answer your question, No, there is no real way to reduce the black market supply without infringing on my right as a law abiding citizen to possess a firearm.

 

[Care4all]

These background checks will not stop gang shootings , they will not stop a battered spouse or a spouse batterer from shooting the spouse, it will not stop some messed up kid from shooting up his school. So when the next violent act with a gun happens, another new law will be proposed and possibly passed, them when that law doesn't work, and it won't, them there will be another, and another and another, until they get the total ban that they really want.

Time for me to donate more money to the NRA.

if the supply in the black market that sells to criminals is reduced, then ''armed offenses'' would likely reduce as well...no?

How do we or can we, reduce the supply of guns on the black market sold to criminals, without reducing law abiding citizens of their 2nd amendment right? Any ideas?

Reducing the supply is playing catch up. We do all we can to reduce the supply of drugs, and we accomplish nothing more than making criminals richer, and filling up our jails with non violent offenders.

Reduce the demand. as a said before, if you are a convicted felon and we find you with a firearm, you go to prison for life.

ahhhh, would have never thunk it, about you!!!!

you are a demand 'sider', not a supply 'sider', wow!

 

[Iceweasel]

There IS NO WAY TO REDUCE GUNS available to criminals making it to the Black Market?

The Black market is illegal. So passing another law won't help. That doesn't mean the ATF isn't working on illegal guns sales, that's one of the reasons they exist.

 

[NoTeaPartyPleez]

All gun sales in the state of Washington will now have to go through a background check. It passed with 60% majority. I voted with the majority.

So now it will be harder for criminals, those with mental problems and domestic abusers to get a gun. They won't be able to do it legally in the state of Washington anymore.

Interesting, when it's put to the vote of the people, background checks passes. Clearly the people of our nation want all gun sales to go through a background check. Too bad that the nra can buy gop politicians to prevent the same law at the federal level.

Lives will be saved in Washington because of this law.

Voters approve expanded gun background checks in Washington state - Local - MyNorthwest.com

They have the same laws in California and they don't seem to have had the slightest effect on preventing criminal behavior. Probably because criminals are...well criminals.

How do you know what the crime statistics would be WITHOUT the laws?

 

[martybegan]

These background checks will not stop gang shootings , they will not stop a battered spouse or a spouse batterer from shooting the spouse, it will not stop some messed up kid from shooting up his school. So when the next violent act with a gun happens, another new law will be proposed and possibly passed, them when that law doesn't work, and it won't, them there will be another, and another and another, until they get the total ban that they really want.

Time for me to donate more money to the NRA.

if the supply in the black market that sells to criminals is reduced, then ''armed offenses'' would likely reduce as well...no?

How do we or can we, reduce the supply of guns on the black market sold to criminals, without reducing law abiding citizens of their 2nd amendment right? Any ideas?

Reducing the supply is playing catch up. We do all we can to reduce the supply of drugs, and we accomplish nothing more than making criminals richer, and filling up our jails with non violent offenders.

Reduce the demand. as a said before, if you are a convicted felon and we find you with a firearm, you go to prison for life.

ahhhh, would have never thunk it, about you!!!!

you are a demand 'sider', not a supply 'sider', wow!

Demand always CREATES supply. Where to stimulate the cycle is another issue.

 

[PredFan]

PredFan -

If background checks mean that a potentially violent husband is turned down for a gun license, then it might very well actually save lives, mightn't it?

IF background checks meant that then yes but they don't even come close. How will anyone know the husband is potentially violent? What if he already has a gun? What if a woman who is getting beaten can't get a gun to protect herself because the continual beatings and mental abuse has rendered her mentally unstable according to the state, and then the abuser finally kills her with a hammer?

Gun laws have never been shown to save lives.

After all - you just saw the graph in the other thread that proves that safety-based gun laws work very well in other countries, no?

That graph doesn't prove anything. That graph has been debunked many times over. It only measures gun violence, and is therefor meaningless.
Of course reducing guns would reduce gun violence. Reducing cars would reduce auto accident deaths.

 

[PredFan]

Thousands of lives and millions in property are Danes every year by people with guns.

Molon Labe mother fuckers!

 

[PredFan]

The benefit of "reasonable" gun control.

CA gun laws require that:
-All transfers must be through a dealer, thus...
-All transfers undergo a background check
-All transfers undergo a 10-day waiting period (ruled unconstitutional 8/2014)
-All firearms must be registered
-Handgun purchases require a handgun safety certificate-– a permit.that requires training and a test
-Ban on ‘assault weapons’, effective 1 JUN 1989
-Ban on magazines that hold more than 10 rounds
-Ban on NFA machineguns

% of murders in US committed with a firearm: 69.36 (8855/12765)
% of murders in CA committed with a firearm: 69.39 (1304/1879) <<< No difference from the national average

% US population in CA: 12.12%
% US murders in CA: 14.71 <<< 21.4% higher than per capita national average
% US murders with a gun in CA 14.72 <<< 21.4% higher than per national average

Thus, the failure of "reasonable" gun control.

The thread killer right here.

 

[hazlnut]

Too bad you listened to the liars about what that bill does. It's gonna lose when challenged in the courts.

Why- even the conservative Supreme Court has said that background checks are Constitutional.

You must be an idiot.

 

[TemplarKormac]

All gun sales in the state of Washington will now have to go through a background check. It passed with 60% majority. I voted with the majority.

So now it will be harder for criminals, those with mental problems and domestic abusers to get a gun. They won't be able to do it legally in the state of Washington anymore.

Interesting, when it's put to the vote of the people, background checks passes. Clearly the people of our nation want all gun sales to go through a background check. Too bad that the nra can buy gop politicians to prevent the same law at the federal level.

Lives will be saved in Washington because of this law.

Voters approve expanded gun background checks in Washington state - Local - MyNorthwest.com

That measure violates the Heller decision. Blatantly. Good luck keeping that one on the books.