Gun Background Checks Pass in Washington

[M14 Shooter]

Too bad you listened to the liars about what that bill does. It's gonna lose when challenged in the courts.

Why- even the conservative Supreme Court has said that background checks are Constitutional.

This is a lie, as you know the court has never said any such thing.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Too bad you listened to the liars about what that bill does. It's gonna lose when challenged in the courts.

Why- even the conservative Supreme Court has said that background checks are Constitutional.

This is a lie, as you know the court has never said any such thing.

In fact the courts have said the direct opposite:

Mack and Printz v. United States, 521 U.S. 898 (1997) - Struck down Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act's interim provision commanding the "chief law enforcement officer" (CLEO) of each local jurisdiction to conduct background checks, §922(s)(2), as unconstitutional.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Too bad you listened to the liars about what that bill does. It's gonna lose when challenged in the courts.

Why- even the conservative Supreme Court has said that background checks are Constitutional.

This is a lie, as you know the court has never said any such thing.

In fact the courts have said the direct opposite:
Mack and Printz v. United States, 521 U.S. 898 (1997) - Struck down Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act's interim provision commanding the "chief law enforcement officer" (CLEO) of each local jurisdiction to conduct background checks, §922(s)(2), as unconstitutional.

Yeah.... but that was 10A state-rights issue, not a 2A individual right issue. It was rendered moot by the NICS mandated by Brady, and doesn't have any effect on a state wishing to implement a BC/UBC under its own laws.

I was in school when this came down. Bet my ConLaw prof that the court with aide with Printz. He reluctantly paid.

 

[Contumacious]

it does nothing, and you are too stupid to realize it.

Well Marty, if the law "does nothing" as you say, THEN WHY IN THE **** ARE YOU GUN NUTTER ASSHOLES GOING APESHIT OVER IT? And you don't even live in the state. Good god you ***** are stupid.

Hey, Zeke. Is English a foreign language to you? Because when he writes the law does nothing, he doesnt mean literally nothing. He means it does nothing to solve the problem it was designed for. It certainly does something: makes it more difficult for a person to buy and sell his property. And criminalizes otherwise law abiding people. The fact that he doesnt live there is irrelevant.

You "channeling" Marty now rabbit?

Here's the deal. A bunch of my fellow Americans that live in a state that I don't live in DECIDED through the ballot box that THEY wanted to try an approach to curb gun violence. That is their right. If you all don't like it.......well tough ******* shit would be my response IF I lived in the state of Washington. You and your gun nutters should have been in Washington before the election so you could have "educated" the voting public. But no, you gun nutters didn't do that. You just want to ***** about something.

If as you claim the law doesn't do what was intended, they will find out soon enough. Can even repeal if needed.

Actually what gun nutters are afraid of is the the LAW WILL WORK AS INTENDED. Scares you to death.

Of course, the "law" is no law and must be ignore by all freemen.

The retards have no authority to interfere with their fellow citizens right to life and to defend the same.

The only possible result of the edict is to prevent law abiding citizens from defending themselves.

.

 

[zeke]

What are you gun nutters freaking out about? You don't live in Washington state and you are absolutely, positively, 105% sure that this will be struck down by the courts........and yet you all going on like somebody took your last ******* cookie.Why you acting like it will pass court muster?

 

[M14 Shooter]

What are you gun nutters freaking out about? You don't live in Washington state and you are absolutely, positively, 105% sure that this will be struck down by the courts........and yet you all going on like somebody took your last ******* cookie.Why you acting like it will pass court muster?

Oh look -- more irrelevance from Zeke.

 

[Little-Acorn]

So now it will be harder for criminals, those with mental problems and domestic abusers to get a gun.

No, it won't.

Buying on the black market will be just as easy as it was before. And stealing a gun will also be just as easy.

These are people who aren't concerned with laws, they are breaking them to do what they do.

So making another law won't make any difference to them.

It's always humorous to see these do-gooders who actually believe that passing a law will make any difference to criminals who shoot people. All the law does, is restrict the law-abiding.

 

[Little-Acorn]

Hmm, 300-plus posts explaining to the OP why he is wrong, and he has vanished from the thread and can't be found.

Looks like the election isn't the only place where Democrats are being routed and are fleeing in panic.

 

[PredFan]

The left wing butthurt doesn't seem to be easing up at all. If anything they are getting worse.

Good times!

 

[westwall]

All gun sales in the state of Washington will now have to go through a background check. It passed with 60% majority. I voted with the majority.

So now it will be harder for criminals, those with mental problems and domestic abusers to get a gun. They won't be able to do it legally in the state of Washington anymore.

Interesting, when it's put to the vote of the people, background checks passes. Clearly the people of our nation want all gun sales to go through a background check. Too bad that the nra can buy gop politicians to prevent the same law at the federal level.

Lives will be saved in Washington because of this law.

Voters approve expanded gun background checks in Washington state - Local - MyNorthwest.com

They have the same laws in California and they don't seem to have had the slightest effect on preventing criminal behavior. Probably because criminals are...well criminals.

How do you know what the crime statistics would be WITHOUT the laws?

You're not too swift are you.... The statistics have been kept for decades. You can see very quickly what works and what doesn't. A wonderful case in point was the Federal Law enacted after the RFK assassination that required gun dealers to keep track of all ammo sold. Guess how many crimes were solved.....none.

Guess how much time an money were wasted.... Loads. That is one thing that government is very good at, wasting peoples time and money.

 

[TooTall]

All gun sales in the state of Washington will now have to go through a background check. It passed with 60% majority. I voted with the majority.

So now it will be harder for criminals, those with mental problems and domestic abusers to get a gun. They won't be able to do it legally in the state of Washington anymore.

Interesting, when it's put to the vote of the people, background checks passes. Clearly the people of our nation want all gun sales to go through a background check. Too bad that the nra can buy gop politicians to prevent the same law at the federal level.

Lives will be saved in Washington because of this law.

Voters approve expanded gun background checks in Washington state - Local - MyNorthwest.com

They have the same laws in California and they don't seem to have had the slightest effect on preventing criminal behavior. Probably because criminals are...well criminals.

So you think background checks on criminals is worthless because criminals will get them illegally anyway? Do you also think we shouldn't have speed limites because speeders will speed anyway. Do you also think we shouldn't have laws on murder because people might kill anyway?

You are a Nihilist

The answer to your first question is yes. The other questions are rather stupid.

 

[TooTall]

Interesting, when it's put to the vote of the people, background checks passes. Clearly the people of our nation want all gun sales to go through a background check. Too bad that the nra can buy gop politicians to prevent the same law at the federal level.

Indeed, and I think that's hitting the nail on the head.

The NRA should themselves be backing proposals like this, but instead oppose any and every measure of common sense because they rely so heavily on funding from arms manufacturers. It's like pharmaceutical companies campaigning for Ebola to be let loose in the US so they could sell vaccine shots.

These measure will only be truly effective when they operate nationwide, but even so....lives will be saved, and that is what we should all focus on.

Obama is the one campaigning for those exposed to Ebola to be let loose in the US. Does he own any pharmaceutical stock?

 

[TemplarKormac]

Too bad you listened to the liars about what that bill does. It's gonna lose when challenged in the courts.

On what grounds will it be challenged and why would it lose in the courts?.

For the same reasons the California 10 day waiting period was struck down. I-594 seems to impose the same type of waiting period on ALL gun sales and transfers. Explicitly Section 4 of the initiative. I can live with the background checks, but the waiting period (under certain circumstances) can be as long as 60 days. Even still, Federal Judge Anthony Ishii (Eastern District of California) ruled such waiting periods unconstitutional.

I interpret that to mean that as soon as the person passes a background check, they are eligible for a permit immediately after.

 

[The Rabbi]

Reading is fundamental.
There is little way to tell if a purchase is a straw purchase. Actually if the people involved have half a brain there is no way to tell.

Your own link makes it clear straw purchases happen a lot. Thanks for sharing.

They do happen a lot. Maybe. BUt really how does anyone know?

By listening to the ATF.

How does the ATF know? Hint: they dont.

Did you read your own link?

How is that even a response?

 

[The Rabbi]

Marty, Rabbi, M14...
From your experience in the legal gun business and/or gun ownership, how can guns be reduced in the Black Market?

How do you make illegal sales and possession more illegal, so the people who break the law now will stop?
You understand the absurdity of this, yes?

Here's the thing:
Laws exist not to prevent crime but to punish people after they commit one.
It is impossible to enact a law that will prevent people from breaking the law -- laws cannot prevent people from committing crimes; as such, it is fallacious to restrict the actions of the law abiding in order to prevent people who do not obey the law from breaking the law..
And so, what do you do? Punish people when they commit crimes.

Machine gun laws sure have been effective.

WHy do you think that?
Hint: whatever you think about it, you're probably wrong.

 

[The Rabbi]

Marty, Rabbi, M14...

From your experience in the legal gun business and/or gun ownership, how can guns be reduced in the Black Market?

What should or could be done to reduce the amount of guns that criminals can get their hands on?


Because if we can reduce the SUPPLY, then the cost of purchasing these Black Market guns would go wayyyyyyyy up in price....which in my opinion would reduce 'some' of the criminals from getting these guns...in the least, it would take longer, for them to save up, to buy the gun, wouldn't it?

What can be done, that would not infringe on our 2nd amendment rights, that actually COULD reduce the guns on the Black Market???

Any ideas at all???

You cant. That's my point. You have 300M of something already in circulation. There is nothing-zero-that can be done effectively about those guns already around. If you stopped all gun production today and made them totally illegal, it would still leave 300M mechanical items with a service life well over 100 years in circulation.
Instead of focusing on the object, you focus on the people. Make the punishment prohibitively expensive. Make the likelihood of getting caught much greater. Crime will drop.

 

[Contumacious]

Marty, Rabbi, M14...
From your experience in the legal gun business and/or gun ownership, how can guns be reduced in the Black Market?

How do you make illegal sales and possession more illegal, so the people who break the law now will stop?
You understand the absurdity of this, yes?

Here's the thing:
Laws exist not to prevent crime but to punish people after they commit one.
It is impossible to enact a law that will prevent people from breaking the law -- laws cannot prevent people from committing crimes; as such, it is fallacious to restrict the actions of the law abiding in order to prevent people who do not obey the law from breaking the law..
And so, what do you do? Punish people when they commit crimes.

It's hard to decipher your long winded and muddled response...????

It was terribly clear to me. What do you not understand?

IS your answer to my question on your ideas on how to reduce the number of guns available for criminals to buy on the black market:

There IS NO WAY TO REDUCE GUNS available to criminals making it to the Black Market?

Exactly.

So Washington's new "Law" is an exercise in futility.

.

 

[The Rabbi]

All gun sales in the state of Washington will now have to go through a background check. It passed with 60% majority. I voted with the majority.

So now it will be harder for criminals, those with mental problems and domestic abusers to get a gun. They won't be able to do it legally in the state of Washington anymore.

Interesting, when it's put to the vote of the people, background checks passes. Clearly the people of our nation want all gun sales to go through a background check. Too bad that the nra can buy gop politicians to prevent the same law at the federal level.

Lives will be saved in Washington because of this law.

Voters approve expanded gun background checks in Washington state - Local - MyNorthwest.com

now if they can just get people to register their guns and follow the law. I can tell you right now it isn't working in NY and CT. people said **** you to mandatory registration of guns. people are still selling guns to each other, probably more than ever now as a matter of fact. and none of it is on record. funny thing about ridiculous laws like these, they are not enforceable.

here is the thing

registering firearms only applies to the legal firearm owner

felons are exempt constitutionally from having to register or attempt to register a firearm

in fact they can not be charged with a crime of failing to register a firearm

This thread isn't about registering guns.

It's about background checks to make sure the wrong people don't get guns.

Why do you have to change what I said? Is it because you can't logically and honestly debate the subject of background checks?

This issue has been answered many times. Presenting yourself for a background check is voluntary. If a buyer and a seller agree that the buyer doesnt need to present himself for one, there is no way to force the buyer to submit. If the buyer and seller are criminals, they certainly wont, since only someone who believes he can pass will actually go through it. The background checks produce many false positiives--people who are denied but are actually not prohibited. The appeals process is cumbersome and time consuming.
Again, what part of that will keep guns out of the hands of criminals? If he cannot go into a store and buy one legally he will steal one. Or he will buy one from someone who stole it.
This ought to be obvious.

 

[turtledude]

All gun sales in the state of Washington will now have to go through a background check. It passed with 60% majority. I voted with the majority.

So now it will be harder for criminals, those with mental problems and domestic abusers to get a gun. They won't be able to do it legally in the state of Washington anymore.

Interesting, when it's put to the vote of the people, background checks passes. Clearly the people of our nation want all gun sales to go through a background check. Too bad that the nra can buy gop politicians to prevent the same law at the federal level.

Lives will be saved in Washington because of this law.

Voters approve expanded gun background checks in Washington state - Local - MyNorthwest.com

delusions. crooks won't go through background checks anymore than addicts buy their drugs from pharmacies

when it fails, you will demand more gun laws

The reason why they don't go through background checks is because there's a loophole in the federal law big enough to drive a Mack truck through. All this law does is close those loopholes.

If they have to go through a background check no matter who they buy from, they're they're much less likely to get a gun.

If you say that this law won't do anything then why are you so upset that the law passed? If it's a worthless law you shouldn't have any problem with it.

not a loophole moron. for 200 years there was no such requirement

congress only had the VOTES and the Interstate commerce clause power to make federally licensed dealers conduct background checks

When a law is passed but includes a way to get around the law or the intent of the law, that's a loophole.

The federal government left a loophole big enough for a Mack truck to go through on the federal background check law.

That law only applies to licensed gun sellers. No one else. So if someone buys a gun from someone who isn't a licensed gun seller they don't have to go through the background check.

Which is how criminals get their guns without a background check.

All this law does is close that loophole.

If you're a law abiding citizen, don't have mental problems or don't beat up your mate, you won't have an problem getting a gun.

you are lying. the law was intended ONLY to cover those who operate in INTERSTATE commerce so buying from someone who is not covered by the law is no loophole

a loophole would be a way to buy legally from a LICENSED dealer without having to undergo a BGC. Nice try but you still are dishonest

 

[The Rabbi]

Our society decided a long time ago that those people shouldn't have guns. All this law does is make sure that they don't get them.

This is, of course, a lie.
You know criminals will still get guns, just like they do in CA, and so you know this law will prevent nothing.

It is impossible to enact legislation that will prevent people from breaking the law.

I guess we shouldn't pass any laws because people will break the law.

So just because the law isn't 100% effective no law should be passed?

Do you know how illogical that is?

I guess we should stop making murder illegal. Murders happen everyday in America.

The law should provide some measurable degree of success. This one doesnt. In any case the purpose of making murder illegal isnt really to prevent murders. It is to be able to punish the murderer afterwards. Its a poor analogy since there is no legal way to murder someone, in the same way there is a legal way to acquire a gun.